| | | |
SILVERWOODSTUDIO
|
3/17/2008 4:55:20 PM
the Elephant in the Room!
OK -----I know this is a music site but I can't believe none of my American friends has put up any words about the sharemarket/ credit crunch/ possible depression which is on our news daily here in New Zealand and on the BBC.
I don't own shares or any of that shit ---but it is sure jerking around our currency/ petrol and food prices (up 50% in a few months)
Today I heard some USA "expert" saying trillions of dollars are at risk----and it is the worst crisis since World War 2!
Is it just not news in the 'States----------surely it's more important/relevant--- than the election circus?
Or is it being "managed " by the Media and the current administration????
|
|
Hugh Hamilton
|
3/17/2008 5:25:48 PM
F#m7
It's really one of my favorite chords.
|
|
SILVERWOODSTUDIO
|
3/17/2008 5:31:22 PM
----prises open eyelid------shines small torch--------F#m7!
|
|
Jeff Allen Myers
|
3/17/2008 5:33:08 PM
Nothing is managed by the Media, if anything they try to sensationalize everything! Seems like that is what your media is doing in NZ. Although things are royally screwed up at the moment, a depression is not eminent...we are bordering on a recession, if not already in one. Recessions are expected in the normal course of business cycles, but what makes this one worse then normal is our credit crisis, brought on by irresponsible mortgage loans. This will in time work itself out, but the credit markets have been hit hard and many firms are going bankrupt. I have no sympathy for them as it is their own greed that got them into this mess.
The economy of the U.S. is resilient, it will be fine. What is making things worse is along with billions lost in equity which translates to lost buying power, is the price of gas. It is approaching $4.00 a gallon, which is really dragging the economy.
Its not a great situation, but the U.S. is not collapsing....the elephant will get his peanuts.
I work in finance for a tech firm...just wanted to give you a little background so you know I am not full of it :)
|
|
Hugh Hamilton
|
3/17/2008 5:47:18 PM
Yup. F#m7. Who's eyelid are you prising open? Your own?
;)
H
|
|
|
3/17/2008 5:49:52 PM
It's true, more Americans are having to live within their means ... it's not quite a depression overall, but the separation of classes are becoming more and more visible these days... but I don't think many Americans are taken by surprise more than our youth and elderly... and let's not get started on how those with insurance are getting screwed worst than those without which is a bit of a turnaround. It's almost as if there is a plan to create a rift between the have and have nots...but in broader more black and white strokes. I suppose they want the riff raff out of their country clubs ? One can never be rich enough for "old money" ... the aristocracy is still running the show... and the middle class is shrinking ... before you know it... it will just be wealthy and poor... master and slave... and charity doled out by the good hearts of the corporate godhead long as you play along like good needy boys and girls. The value of the American dollar is at an all time low. What if China pulls their money out next ? Yikes ! I know I moved to England, but I'm in America right now and very much an American and it's a travesty not only for Americans but for the rest of the world what is happening... and Rupert Murdoch owns most of the airways... and blah blah blah. Folks like Howard Zinn, and Ward Churchill's words are unfortunately coming to a harsher light than ever...
I've posted an unfortunate missive below that pretty much tips it's cookie jar... we are the Lord of the Flies of this planet ! We won't go down without video games and a TV !!!! America Bless America ... there's still hope, that's us at our core... dreams that can still come true ? And for who for who for who ...
"The credit crunch that has so far caused more than $100 billion of losses for big Wall Street investment firms now extends to students in Michigan, and it could soon hit many other borrowers, ranging from California museums to the prestigious Deerfield Academy prep school in Massachusetts.
Yesterday, the Michigan Higher Education Student Loan Authority, a state agency, said on its Web site that “due to the current and unprecedented capital-markets disruption” it will stop making loans under the state’s Michigan Alternative Student Loan, or MI-Loan, program. More than 100 Michigan colleges and universities participate in the program.
In the past few days, problems have mounted for many borrowers as an obscure — but important — corner of the credit market called auction-rate securities has gone into a deep freeze." -NYTimes
|
|
Duane Flock
|
3/17/2008 5:50:09 PM
Guys, you're fairly close to answering your own question. We're all "sheeple" over here and we get herded into groups and are only fed what information our leaders want us to hear.
Why? What have you heard?..................................................(just Kidding)
If you really want the truth over here, unfortunately you have to dig (look around) for it. What's worse is other countries look at us and follow our lead. It's really sad when you think about what kind of world our grand-kids will live in. It's gonna take more than just a handful of people looking for the truth to fix it too!
That could be a good project to tackle after we Indies take over the music biz, Yes?
D.
|
|
Hugh Hamilton
|
3/17/2008 5:55:06 PM
Lord of the Flies. Duly noted.
|
|
HunkaFunk
|
3/17/2008 5:56:26 PM
It really only matters to the rich, and poor folks who got suckered into an adjustable rate mortgage, who really couldn't afford to buy a home in the first place, but were given a so called "chance". That is until their monthly payment went up $1,000.00 or more, and their wages stayed the same, which caused them to default, and lose their homes. Lucky for me, I never had an opportunity to "own" a home, which always seemed out of reach for me, a Family man, and Construction worker. Now, forget about it. American dream, ha... what a laugh, and a half.The average mean house price, in the area I live is $676,000.00. Um, that would be about $6,500.00 a month, fuck that, I'll rent the rest of my days on this earth, I just don't care anymore about proving something, and "buying" a home. All I need is a place to sleep, eat, shower, and play Music. The american dream, is now just a daydream.
Sadly,
Tim (T.J.) Franklin
HunkaFunk
|
|
Jack Heinicke
|
3/17/2008 8:04:20 PM
"They" are always coming up with something to frighten us with.
As for me I'm sick and tired of these manipulative scare tactics.
Remember Y2K?
Some very clever whizkids who were out to make a buck came up with that extremely influential hunk of crap that so many "intelligent" members of our world fell for.
I'm done with all of it.
For real, what the heck is the worst that is going to happen to most of us?
Same thing that happens to us everyday.
We wake up, slog off to work, eat lunch, come home, eat dinner, go to sleep and wake up to do it all over again.
And maybe, just maybe in the moments inbetween we get to do something real productive like help our kids wth their homnework or kiss the boo boo of the moment and hug the wife and show her how much she is loved by doing the dishes or something when she least expects it or write a new tune and put it online or pray for forgiveness and keep our mouhs shut when we want to give someone a piece of our minds (like we have that much to give away) or be there for someone who is really going through something painful.
You get the picture.
It's all smoke and mirrors boys and girls.
Pay it no mind and it will go the way of the dodo.Where it belongs.
Jack
|
|
Bruce Boyd
|
3/17/2008 8:15:22 PM
Elephant in the room?
Hope it's house trained.....
|
|
|
3/17/2008 9:01:07 PM
"It's all smoke and mirrors boys and girls.
Pay it no mind and it will go the way of the dodo.Where it belongs."
Is that the ostrich in the room approach ?
And on another note...
How would you like to have the job as the elephant poo catcher?
|
|
Jack Heinicke
|
3/17/2008 9:26:13 PM
You may call it the ostrich in the room approach but I just call it likes I sees it and in my 50 years I've heard the "end is nigh" death knell because of this thing or that thing so many times that it holds as much importance and weight to me as a Tom and Jerry cartoon which is far more entertaining, insightful and rewarding.
I don't know how many times i've heard this nonsense about this conspiracy to widen the gap between the haves and the have nots but I know I am sick to death of the liberal mindset that fuels the passion and angst of youth gone wild in the streets protestin that the "man" is out to get us all and if we don't watch out the boogeyman will eat us alive in our beds. And I'm one of the homeowners who got one of those loans and is living from measly paycheck to paycheck and who is freaking grateful as heck to be living in a country where things are so bad for the pitiful lower middle class that many of us are flocking to our surgeons to get obesity surgery because the excess at our fingertips is drippin down our arms in epidemic Biblical proportions.
First step tells me I'm powerless over what everyone else is doing or not and the proof is in the puddin that no matter how much I freak out over any ol' thing the result remains the same: me freaking out and you having a laugh.
You want to know who your worst enemy is? Go to the nearest mirror and have a look-see. Do something about the problem that stands before you. Thats a whole helluva lot harder thing to do than to point the proverbial and real finger anywhere else. And get out of your own way and DO SOMETHING FOR SOMEONE ELSE!
Want the world to change? Start in your own backyard and then work through the neighborhood.
And I used to be a Wastewater Treatment Operator so I had to deal with much of the poo of the people.
Now I treat human beings who have problems with addiction.
It all adds up tp dealing with lots of crap.
Hopefully the end result is a lot better than what you started out with.
|
|
The Man With No Band
|
3/17/2008 9:41:03 PM
Well ... I feel blessed just to breathe everyday ... but that does not change the facts ... numbers do not lie ... If you think the gap between the have's and the have not's is not widening in this country then you really do have your head in the sand ... I'm not one of those homeowners ... been there done that though ... I've also lived on the streets in this beautiful country of ours and it ain't pretty for many ... Get out of your suburban surroundings and your T.V. set and go look at real America ... I've seen it first hand ... don't tell me that it doesn't exist ... because I know better...
and as far as the great America being financially sound that is a joke ! ... again the numbers don't lie .... sheeeeeesh wake up ...
|
|
Jack Heinicke
|
3/17/2008 10:16:44 PM
Holy crap...I never said the gap isn't widening I'm just tired of people who fall for the latest fear mongering campaign of the day...this country is going to hell in a handbasket but it's been doing so FOR YEARS!!!...this is not new news...I've been awake ever since we lost what was never officially declared a "war" in Southeast Asia that truely signaled the real death knell...and seriously...how dare you assume when someone makes statements like I have that I live in the suburbs and get the "real" America from a TV set...you act like you're the only one whose "seen it firsthand"...puhlease...and when did I write anything that remotely sounded like America is financially sound?...you must think I'm an idiot...I've been living in this mess trying to raise kids and to help people who really need it...pay closer attention...don't mind me...I just suffer from LTFB (low tolerance for bull&%#$)...sheeesh
|
|
|
3/17/2008 10:18:21 PM
You know Jack... WOW. -anjuli
|
|
The Man With No Band
|
3/17/2008 10:40:19 PM
Jack ... you are not the only one posting on this thread .... if you think all my comments were directed at you, then maybe you got somethin' eating at you or somethin' ?
I'm damn sure not the only one that has seen it first hand .... there are thousands out there living it everyday .... You make it sound like to give a shit about it then you must be one of them "bleeding heart liberals" !
Not everybody has the opportunities that many have in this country ... and I'm not saying you aren't aware of that ... Whether you are tired of hearing it or not doesn't make the problem go away .... nor does it make me any less inclined to speak out for the down trodden ...
|
|
|
3/17/2008 11:24:12 PM
" in my 50 years I've heard the "end is nigh" death knell because of this thing or that thing so many times that it holds as much importance and weight to me as a Tom and Jerry cartoon which is far more entertaining, insightful and rewarding."
For one, who said anything about a death knell ? And two... if this topic holds no importance to you why are you bothering to write anything at all or get so worked up for that matter ? Why not just flip off the computer and watch cartoons...
I can't speak for anyone else, but if I believed the end of the world was at hand I wouldn't be on IAC blogging... the fact that any of us are here communicating is because of the hope we all have, I would assume. America is a young country and evolving all the time but for as young a crack*a*country as we are, (sorry, couldn't help myself) we sure do have lots of power, we are growing at the speed of light... and almost to our own detriment. What happened in New Orleans really put a magnifying glass over America's underprivileged. It was hard to deny... and so blatantly out in the open... and still...nothing. Chicken Little may have been running through the streets screaming how the sky was falling year after year... but that doesn't make our economic and sociological issues any less valid. I wonder if Ayn Rand would be proud... the truth always seems to lie somewhere in the middle, but never on the fence it would seem. It's a slippery thing to grasp...if only math could explain it all.
Anyway, I am happy to be wrong... nothing would bring my heart a greater joy ! -anjuli
|
|
Jeff Allen Myers
|
3/17/2008 11:36:42 PM
"When you have Hope, you know the World is a better place
A moment of Love exceeds a lifetime of Pain"
A man full of Hope for the future wrote that.......
If the world was ending???, I would be doing exactly what I am doing in the Pic to the upper right... :)
The Serenity prayer really makes sense in the context of this discussion
God,
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference.
Change a life in a positive way if you can .....we will all benefit!!! Peace
Jeff
|
|
Jeff Allen Myers
|
3/17/2008 11:37:33 PM
upper left :) sorry...
|
|
Bruce Boyd
|
3/18/2008 12:34:46 AM
Sheesh, Jeff for a moment there you had me thinking I was gonna have to restring my guitar Hendrix style...and I don't think my store sells left handed strings!
|
|
srm
|
3/18/2008 1:16:27 AM
Mine does. They charge an extra two dollars for them, too. Damned economics.
|
|
satch
|
3/18/2008 1:29:05 AM
Interesting can o' worms been opened up here...
Another layer on top of it all is food. Globally, the food market is changing dramatically, due to the increased cost of transportation, due to land being taken out of food and put into biofuels, due to floods and droughts, due to changes in the means and demands of the developing world... food prices over here have jumped hugely in the last few months and look set to keep on going up.
Also here, the number of available mortgage products has, in the last month, dropped from over a thousand to fewer than 300! And many people, particularly first-time buyers, have had mortgages that were good to go last month refused in the past few days.
It may not be a recession yet, but it's surely heading that way...
|
|
The CODE
|
3/18/2008 3:18:53 AM
Wake Up Time - Good Thread!!!
I want to know, where are the Trillions of $ being lost???
Where are they going???
|
|
SILVERWOODSTUDIO
|
3/18/2008 2:30:14 PM
First let me thank you for such a diverse range of opinions / information---------this is truely the strength of The United States----and why I for one believe, that there is no other country that could handle the "Responsibility" of world leadership !!!
Now this is a poorly timed blog and the golden Kayak nominations came out today-------and quite a few on this thread are nominated------YOU absolutely deserve it----all our good wishes to you----We are also in that list 3 times ---and that is a HELL of a distraction!!!!!
But this is life ---and life goes on!
Jeff----I know you always speak from your head and heart and I hope you are correct
Duane my friend------- we tread a similar path!
Jack---I respect your views and it is really time I paid you a visit!!!
Hugo ---i was the doctor ---you were the patient!!
when I looked at your eyeball there it was F#m7-------I wrote a song way back
F#m----Bm----E
called "Strange Old Man" ???
TJ----Well, I think our views are pretty close-----We definitely follow America as a big brother---and would appreciate a more humane leadership style than we have been getting!
Sam---my old friend!! always a champion of the underdog ---hell ,you could be a kiwi!
Anjuli----you are well informed, and always come up with a different angle :D
BJ----Mmmmmmaaaaaaaaatttteeeeeeeee!
SRM-----i really should know your name by now!
Satch----I think we are both viewing the world from outside the USA so we get less hype and make up our own minds, without the same media pressure---
Code---I hope you don't think I have the answer -----but generally, when someone loses lots of $$$$$$--------- someone else gains it ?
morning coffee time!!
|
|
|
3/18/2008 3:42:22 PM
"the Ostrich buried it's head in the sand for a while...and for a while it was really quite and peaceful down there with all those billions of grains gently contorting and graciously making room for his intrusive head....down there it was calm.dark and relatively quiet....he started to wonder why it had taken him so long to stick his head down there when it was such an easy option...no one was bothering him now...no one to question him...no one to answer too... no more debate...no danger, yes, NO DANGER !...just billions of grains of sand shifting and sifting over one another in peaceful,benign but unconscious coexistence but.... he was bored and after awhile he started to miss his friends up above,the wind on his beak and the sound of the waves lapping on the shore...he also couldn't move,he was stuck and couldn't do anything...he started to hear strange noises and uncomfortable sensations and vibrations and then he imagined frightening sand like monster creatures nibbling away at his head and worming there way into his brain implanting more thoughts and fears than he had when his head was above ground...they were just as vicious and unreasonable as they were above ground...and then he realised he wasn't imagining this at all and in fact these monsters existed everywhere and there were even more below ground than above and at least he could see the ones above ground and face them....and....."
Now goodnight my darling child...now turn off the light,go to sleep and i'll finish the story tomorrow night....sweet dreams....x x x
|
|
Bruce Boyd
|
3/19/2008 1:56:18 AM
Is Hillary gonna recycle these tees???
|
|
Two Silo Complex
|
3/19/2008 7:15:10 AM
The current credit crunch is caused by the gluttony of the people that have money trying to steal even more from the people the do not have it. This time the people that have the money got caught with their pants down when the have nots started defaulting on payments they could not afford.
A more concerning issue is the price of real estate. The fat cow has grown so large and property values are so over blown that the average house in the
mid-west is 250.000 that is about a 2500 a month give or take. I know that I can't afford that. Because of the credit crunch and now a slow down in the real estate market these prices are starting to fall after more than 5 years of steady incline.
In my opinion this downturn was long overdue. I am surprised it took so long to get here. Maybe this will teach some of us that spend more than we should to actaully live within what we can afford. This is not a crisis and has been way overblown by the media. This is the normal cycle of life. Look at the law a gravitivity. What goes up must come down. No economy no matter how strong can have unlimited growth there is always a down cycle. This is not even close the the great depression and America survived that.
My advice is save your pennies and ignore the hype. It is there to make you go crazy. While we run around thinking the sky is falling our government is doing more things that we should not allow.
Tapping every domestic and outbound phone call,
starting wars without congress approval,
passing bills that strip out rights to free speech.
These are the things we should be concerned about that have much greater consequence than the current ecconomic downturn.
TSC
Ken
|
|
Jo Ellen
|
3/19/2008 10:55:24 AM
First reaction...fear. First response...prayer. Glad to be breathing. I don't know if we can ever fully escape the effects of selfishness, unless every individual is willing to act selflessly....
Just my opinion.
|
|
SILVERWOODSTUDIO
|
3/19/2008 1:38:30 PM
I applaud that!!
also congrats Jo Ellen!
|
|
The CODE
|
3/19/2008 2:15:34 PM
Love the Bill Clinton face!!!
He looks like a robot!?!?!?
|
|
SqurlyMurly
|
3/19/2008 2:30:51 PM
yea. darn right. i'm in a depression after reading the Mills - McCartney settlement!!
"...the gluttony of the people that have money..."
sorry. i read this and these parts simply struck me as i had just read about poor poor Heather Mills McCartney. Hmmm...48.6 mil and 70,000 a month to the daughter - is that right? and oh the poor baby will have to fly second class coach while dear ole' dad flies first class.
i know this isn't relative to the blog, but i can't help myself sometimes.
|
|
Magnetfisch
|
3/19/2008 3:38:55 PM
do not worry too much, my friends 8-)
As Jeff puts it, let us keep hope and love in mind (and good chords for the guitars and some $ in the purse as well)
I wish you all the best
|
|
John Myles
|
3/19/2008 4:27:42 PM
Its worldwide corruption man..... "Every rich man knows a secret a workin man never learns, cause they got....Money To Burn"
|
|
|
3/19/2008 9:36:50 PM
I've come to learn that you never really know someone unless you've experienced them as an enemy... or have witnessed them as an enemy to someone else. Or, if they are in a position of power over you... Then, you will know what someone is really made of, including yourself. All of us represent a microcosm of the bigger picture... we are a manifold culture that is becoming indebted to homogeny.
As Jeff said... "The Serenity prayer really makes sense in the context of this discussion"
Thanks for the topic Silver ! ps...Brendan... great story, you've got me terrified ! hee
|
|
|
3/20/2008 12:33:24 AM
The only time I'd ever allow any one to ever have any power over me is when...oh...um...nevermind
|
|
Paul groover
|
3/21/2008 6:34:58 AM
---- Updated 3/21/2008 6:34:58 AM
This seems to me like the tactics they used in the 20,s and 30,s to depress stocks and shares and buy them for pennies on the dollar. Fire sales i think there called. The Fed will print money out of thin air depressing the price of the dollar even more. Then they will suddenly start shrinking the dollars in circulation creating a worldwide depression. It,s an old trick used by old money to buy up anything with real value for a percentage of it,s true worth. The banks start panicking and start for closing everywhere and everything to keep themselves solvent as there will be bank runs. As people try and save there life savings and property from becoming worthless. When everything is done and dusted and they succeed in crashing the economies the banksters step in like knights of ye olde shite and buy everything at pennies in the dollar. While making themselves look like saviours of America don,t be fooled. Of course they didn,t have money in the markets they pulled out because they started this in the first place They have and will always be smoke and mirrors. Here,s a couple of quotes: "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws" :"Fool me once Shame on you Fool me twice Shame on me".
Watch Zietgeist on google video it explains a lot better than i can
|
|
M.C BigSamTheDivineBoss
|
3/21/2008 8:13:46 AM
yup and so is my new single life is a journey.
|
|
The CODE
|
3/21/2008 9:45:50 AM
Is Bush auditioning for a Who 'tribute' band???
|
|
|
3/21/2008 10:33:28 AM
Theres an old saying; When the cats away the mice will play! Bush just cared about that foolish war he created in Iraq and let everything else go. So arrogant! So incompetent! When all the other companies; oil, drug, banks, etc... saw that no attention was being payed to domestic issues, the greed set in! I'm afraid Bush set in motion the end of the world banking system and nothing will stop it! Just please take this advise. Don't except any number, tattoo, or computer chip in or on your body in order to buy or sell! The Bible predicts this will happen. If you accept the Mark of the Beast. It's a ticket to HELL and nothing can save you PERIOD
Okay WJU enough preaching! Now Good News have a happy Easter to all of you and may God Bless!
|
|
| |
�2015-16 IndieMusicPeople.com All Rights
Reserved
| |