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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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9/15/2008 2:16:22 PM
Wall street crashes?
Please explain this
The Republicans have wrecked the US economy and "the Market Forces" policies of Milton Friedman and the Chicago school of Economics have been proved a crock with the bailing out by taxpayers of Freddy Mac and Fanny Mae- and the collapse of Leighman Bros and many other banks-!!!!
YET -we hear that McCain and Obama are neck and neck????????????
Have US citizens all been lobotomised- or does the economy not matter?
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Stegor
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9/15/2008 4:29:33 PM
Oh goody! A political thread! I love these!
As I understand it, the Democratic congress was supposed to keep those guys under control and they didn't do it. Now the damage is so profound that the only way to avoid a run on the banks ala "It's a Wonderful Life" with Jimmy Stewart and Zu-zu's petals was for the rest of us poor taxpayers to bail them out.
Ok, the rest of you can dogpile on Stegor now!
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The Man With No Band
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9/15/2008 4:36:05 PM
I won't blame this all on the Republicans ... (even though it is their fault) ...
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Richard Scotti
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9/15/2008 4:43:21 PM
The Dems don't have enough of a majority to overide a presidential veto.
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The Man With No Band
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9/15/2008 4:48:29 PM
... not to mention the fact they have only held the majority in Congress for less than two years ...
remember it's Washington ... It takes longer than that to get a paper towel to clean up a coffee spill ...
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LyinDan
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9/15/2008 5:36:00 PM
Excuse me. The Repubes have been in control of the Executive branch of government for 8 years now. You know, the Executive branch, the one that has control of all the oversight and rule-making in the American system? The ones who are supposed to be guarding the hens from the foxes? The head of all the watchdogs and civil servants who are supposed to be protecting the American citizen from wrong-doing? That's not Congress. Congress makes the general laws. The Executive sees that they're implemented.
So, yeah. It's the focking Republicans' fault. For damn sure.
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LyinDan
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9/15/2008 5:38:03 PM
AND, it's about time the damn thing fell apart completely. They've been trying to prop up their complete incompetence by buying out their mistakes (uh, with my and YOUR focking money) until the election is over, but I guess that's not working out for the Bozo mofos. They don't HAVE enough of OUR MONEY to fix this crap until the election is over.
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Bruce Boyd
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9/15/2008 6:23:01 PM
Once upon a time politicians promised to help realize your dreams,
Now they promise to deliver you from your nightmares...
...trouble is THEY created those nightmares.
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Beth Fridinger
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9/15/2008 6:43:46 PM
well as usual I will vote for the lesser of two evils...I do prefer the dems...but I am somewhat middle of the road...I very much don't care for the religious right...everything is such a mess...the economy in shambles, fuel prices out of site, jobs overseas....stock market gone to hell...this is really bad....
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Kevin White
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9/15/2008 6:54:48 PM
I blame Americans.
They elect people who don't tell the truth, but well sell the dream.
They desire smoke blown up their arses.
That's the reality of elections.
Who'd get elected today telling everybody their in hock up to their eyeballs, and they can't have anything they want because they've been totally fucked for years?
We're only witnessing what comes to roost from an uninformed electorate ... who thinks there is a bottomless bank they can elect -- no matter what.
It's reality, is all ... and the buck stops when it stops. Fiscal impossibility leads here. I blame the system ... both parties ... for politics works in it ... and it has fucked up.
It's not the end of the world. Only an American correction back to reality.
It will be painful.
Kev-
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Richard Scotti
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9/16/2008 7:47:27 AM
The Mad Max future is closer to becoming a reality.
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The CODE
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9/16/2008 8:03:10 AM
LOL Richard!
Theiving Robbing B'Stards the lot of them - lining their own pockets!
The meltdown may be the only way to sort this, so....
Look out for a lot of distractions!
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Hop On Pop
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9/16/2008 8:17:11 AM
And gas prices jumped about 40¢ a gallon over last week, despite the price of crude tumbling down and down.
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Kevin White
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9/16/2008 9:27:06 AM
Speaking of not having enough money until the election is over:
The cost of getting elected is obscene.
I keep hearing a lot of talk about "changing Washington", but nothing concrete about "HOW?"
Two fundamental things need to happen w/in that system to allow government to govern w/o bias:
1) Comprehensive and draconian ethics legislation, that basically says ... if you fuck the public trust, the public gets to fuck you back -- twice as hard.
2) Campaign finance reform that funnels ALL campaign contributions to a central collection agency, which then parcels equal payments out to all parties running ... once certain qualifications are met.
I buy the argument of free speech, until someone else's free speech impedes mine.
Now, carefully avoiding being too wordy ... I make my exit here ...
:^D
Kev-
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Art Factory
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9/16/2008 9:35:40 AM
here's a quick pik on 3rd party candidates.. in case you havn't seen this - the 2 parteee system is corrupt, however not all politicans - repubs or dems are, check out all 9 vids for more info...
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Kevin White
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9/16/2008 10:22:26 AM
Excellent post. I've been watching the vids.
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Art Factory
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9/16/2008 10:26:56 AM
yeah, the lot of em kik it, kick it good!
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Two Silo Complex
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9/16/2008 12:35:57 PM
The fact of the matter is that voting is more than a matter of economical concern.
Yes the economy is in crises yes this is an important issue but that is not the only issue facing America.
Let’s consider 1: The war in Iraq the two parties are considerably different here
Barrack opposes McCain approves. Many blinded Americans still somehow believe that there is a purpose to that mess other than oil. Wrong!
Let’s consider 2: The view of America in the world.
McCain has more experience with foreign relations but at the same time holds on to the Bush policy as his baby. Barrack has less expertise and we do not know how his foreign policy would improve or weaken relations with other countries.
Finally let’s consider 3: The morality issues
McCain back right to life
Barrack backs Abortion
McCain opposes gay marriage
Barrack ?
So even though the evidence for economic reform is overwhelming there are several other issues that also hold the floor. Not to mentions Americans are stubborn and some of us will hold our party to the death for better or worse.
That is why the race is close.
As far as I am concerned both parties suck and America is headed for trouble either way.
If Barrack is elected he may be assassinated and do we really want Biden?
If McCain is elected he may die, At 72 with cancer 4 years does not seem likely do we really want Palain?
Face it folks either way this do not look good for the near or distant future. I suggest buckle up save your pennies and count on the only one who you can depend on. Yourself.
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Magnetfisch
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9/16/2008 12:52:14 PM
$om€tim€$ it $eem$ it'$ a££ about mon€¥, ¥€ know...
slowly but steadily this will hopefully change to become something more human, something more stable...
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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9/16/2008 3:03:25 PM
fantastic debate----take the rest of the day off!!
Batboy------funny!
Sam------ditto
Richard------enlightened
Lyin' Dan--------My views also
BJ------Aaaarghh!
Larree--------Nobody for President!!!
Beth------sensible!
Kevin--------I find myself nodding
Code----lets kick up a ruckus
Todd------the bastards
Arty------excellent info thanks so much ----there goes my morning!
Two silo----hey haven't seen ewe for a while ----balanced I'd say
Magnetfisch-----Morality it is then!!
chur!!
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Kevin White
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9/16/2008 4:08:54 PM
Biden has serious credible experience. He was already in the running for the position.
Palin feigns honesty, inviting open door inspection, all the while knowing that the wagons will circle to protect.
She has very little cred. It's like ... well, yesterday I was a cashier at the 7/11, but NOW I'M PRESIDENT!!!
I AM SO GOING CRUSH MY SISTER IN LAW'S PROBLEM W/ HER HUSBAND!!!
When one abuses one's public office for private vendettas? Well, that's really wrong. I believe that's what she did ... and she shouldn't be VP ... or help us, President. Yes, simply because of abuse of office. That's serious character flaw shit.
What the hell would the rest of the world think of such a person leading this country?
They might even invade another soveriegn nation just because their leaders might have plotted to assignate their daddy ... or something like that.
We need the best we can get.
She ain't it.
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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9/16/2008 4:43:50 PM
Kevin
you say what would the rest of the world think should Palin end up president?
Hell---- many of us think we SHOULD get a vote because we are sooooo influenced by the decisions made in the US-----our sharemarkets and financial institutions are following Wall street down as we speak----and our economies are powerless to stop it!!!!
Many folks think the USA has gone to soap opera land ------if a party screwed up to the extent that the Republicans have in any other country , they would be dog tucker for at least 2 terms!!!
How McCain and Palin can pull the wool over voters eyes in the USA and distance themselves from the mayhem-------------- is almost impossilble to comprehend for us outside the USA!!
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The CODE
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9/16/2008 4:46:12 PM
Well said Silvers!
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Beth Fridinger
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9/16/2008 11:47:01 PM
Yes it's true...they really pull the wool over and how anybody can vote for that party I have no idea...but it sure is frightening, and very upsetting to see how it affects the whole world and not just us. What's going on in the financial markets is very scary. .
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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9/17/2008 3:10:35 PM
I guess the other point I was trying to make is that "Free Market Policies" as followed by most of the "FREE" world have now turned full circle!!!!
In effect what we now have is a form of "COMMUNISM" with the State buying up all the institutions-----and owning them !!
Just like they said should NEVER happen!!!!
What a FARCE!!!!!
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Kevin White
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9/17/2008 7:11:10 PM
---- Updated 9/17/2008 7:22:35 PM
Rob,
With my daughter in Europe for the last several years, I fully understand that your sentiment of desiring a voice in U.S. elections ... via the influence we have on the world is mirrored commonly worldwide.
I'm sorry for that.
We have basically a one party system here, that is controlled by business and money.
What this results in is a choice most Americans don't know they're making ... and elections become more theater, less substantial.
When voter's rights become choosing the difference between narrow ideologies ... meaning, you get french vanilla or vanilla ... really ... how different is the choice?
There are no voter's rights when they are so narrowed that they become a choice dictated by a one party system ...
We call that Russia and China ...
Except that's also America today; only better marketed.
We delude ourselves into thinking that we've a choice ... for ... really we don't.
We've shallowed it down into "third level" issues.
What do I mean?
Third level is what can be dealt with when you've become shallow enough to worry about paint colors in the living room like it really matters on a national political level. That's what political parties sell to the American public as "what really counts". Burning the flag may be loathsome, but PUHLEEEZE, does it really trump starvation?
Republicans and Democrats are the same. They're cut from the same cloth, and the big joke is that everybody thinks trite matters because they've been conditioned to believe that it does.
THINGS ARE NOT THE SAME AS THEY WERE BEFORE.
America is "owned" by money. We're so capitalistic, that in one sense, this shouldn't be a surprise. Yet we've been so sold the "democratic dream of the U.S." that we still believe it to be real. Heck, WE VOTE, AND IT COUNTS!!! I'm sad to report ... not so much ... and for reasons one might not fully expect.
Sadly, we're sold the vote along issues we've been divided by ... issues that don't really matter, and most don't even realize to what extent they've been duped, but the underlying concepts are simple:
I'm in sales, and I've been a professional for all my adult life. When I mean professional, I mean top level professional. I know my stuff.
A common technique in sales is to perform the closed ended agreement. What we say is ... rather than ... "What time would you like to meet?"
... we offer, "I've Monday or Tuesday open, which is better?"
"GREAT! I've 1 or 2 pm currently available, what would you prefer?"
What's done is ... instead of offering a real choice, you've subtly narrowed a selection of choices to back people into what you want them to choose ... and led them to believe the result is totally of their free will.
But you set the parameters of choice ...
Now ...
Expand that technique to a Presidential election ... controlled by monied interests.
See?
And yet ... to directly answer the above inquiry:
What is offered is what is offered.
I favor brighter over dimmer.
McCain/Palin, however well intentioned, is disaster on a nuclear scale. Which the slightest of investigation, and setting aside of religious/guns/abortion agendas aside ... they cannot be taken as a serious government. They scare me ... and to some extent ... I'm more scared of Obama and Biden ... but I believe they're at least smarter.
I'm tired of dumb people leading this nation.
I'm sad that the decision boils down to that.
Kev-
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kurtkurtley
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9/17/2008 7:59:52 PM
Kev, et al,
Wonderful thread...although I wonder why "Mildred" has not yet weighed in.
A few thoughts...
I'm currently doing the expat thing in China, and the view here of our politics is that of utter incomprehensibility...it doesn't make any sense to them. They see the chaos, the unrepentant thievery and world class bullying of the current administration, and can't even understand why we still have these clowns in town. It is clearly apparent to everyone outside of the US that these guys, and by extension, the new face of these policies, McCain/Palin, gotta go!
It's apparently a no-brainer eveywhere but at home.
I blame this in large part to the careful and heavy handed control and manipulation of the multimedia outlets.
I laugh out loud when I hear or read about the "Liberal Press" from the right wing loonies. The liberal press died in about 1968, King Richard (Nixon) gutted it back then. NPR is about the only place left where you can here a (relatively) unbiased view of politics in America.
But, as Kev pointed out, we only have ourselves to blame for this mess. I think it should be pointed out that if you can keep the poplace in fear (Terrorists!) and scrambling just to survive (bad economy) then they are much likely to take the time to really consider what's going on in the world.
Thanks, there's my 2rmb's worth.
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Conversation Suicide
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9/17/2008 9:36:37 PM
nothing to add. y'all have nailed the scary situation quite well.
BUT -- I WILL mention this: MUSIC & Night Clubs THRIVED both during the DEPRESSION and During PROHIBITION in the U.S.
Still, poverty and all, it's the BEST time in a LOONNNG time, to be a hard-workin' INDIE Artist, ju know whut I mean, mang?
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Mildred Lukaloa
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9/18/2008 1:04:33 AM
I just glanced through this thread and don't normally take an interest in politics like my ex husband and son but I did spot my name 'Mildred' on one post and I just curious as to why you would think I'd have an opinion?
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satch
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9/18/2008 3:17:40 AM
Aren't you an American Mildred? Because according to your son, non-Americans should keep out of American political threads, therefore, logically, Americans should butt-in on American political threads!
By the way, British politics and the British political are really not a lot different than those of the USA these days... bring 'em all down - vote Green!
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Bruce Boyd
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9/18/2008 3:37:34 AM
I heard a Wall Street analyst say today that American capitalism now means "privatize profits...but nationalize losses!"
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Kevin White
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9/18/2008 6:24:06 AM
Trouble is ... we don't have any money for bail outs. We're in hock up to our eyeballs.
So we've got to put MORE on the credit card to bail them out.
... meaning who, then, owns our debt?
Think ...
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The CODE
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9/18/2008 7:17:20 AM
Good thread here Rob!
And good explanations from Kevin!
We are F*cked!
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Art Factory
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9/18/2008 9:53:58 AM
Yeah.. we are, yet we have every opportunity in each moment to make a difference through art and in the way we communicate with our family, friends and peers. That requires rolling up our sleeves and digin in though not through self medication but by work and effort. It can be painful to face the realities of life but sitting idly and expecting politicians to make it all right is not going to effect the changes we want to see. I believe time spent actively in pursuit of your vision has an impact, and even though we express our anger and frustration we can also do that from a place of compassion .. somewhere in that mix fuels the fire for real change.
Kevin - that was very well said, it sets into words what I have felt for some time and to what has motivated me with some stations months ago which were more politically driven. In the past I've not been much of an activist but this year has wretched me through the core. Music and our communication on IAC the last few months has helped to hone in the focal point of creative direction so I'm thankful for our interaction as wretched as some moments can be. :) .... let's never give up!
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Kevin White
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9/18/2008 1:56:08 PM
I hate to pick on the poor lady, but she was such a poor choice, and however honored one feels, one should have known better to step on a stage where one doesn't belong:
Republicans question Palin's credentials
GOP senator: A 'stretch' to say Palin is qualified
... and these are Republicans talking ...
When wrong is so wrong, responsible party members make mention.
Obama again leads in all polls.
Fickle Americans who don't pay attention ...
lol ...
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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9/18/2008 3:13:51 PM
look----!
I just want to thank every one of ewe who made this an adult thread----I am sorry it took a Wall street crash to bring folks to their senses!!!
Kevin in particular-- thanks for taking the time to construct such a clear view of the political situation---
I believe that the people will wake up----but the horse has bolted!!
Will China be the ultimate winner-????
-----if so Bush & co in 8 years, have brought the USA to it's knees----
will they be held to account?
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Kevin White
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9/18/2008 4:36:08 PM
---- Updated 9/18/2008 4:38:09 PM
Vista Home sucks ... that's all I wanted to say after it screwed up my post.
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Bruce Boyd
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9/18/2008 4:44:01 PM
Twenty years ago Reagan (and to a lesser extent Thatcher) brought about the collapse of the Soviet Union by a dangerous game of brinksmanship. They escalated the arms race thereby forcing up the cost to the extent that basically the Soviet Union went bust trying to keep up.
In the last twenty years China has emerged as a big player on the political and economic stage. The massive upsurge in their demand for oil as their economy expands is one of the major reasons that the price has skyrocketed. They can afford to pay for it with US dollars - the deficit in the balance of trade between the US and China last year was 256 billion dollars. And this at a time the US is pouring trillions into Iraq, has a housing finance crisis etc etc.
Go figure...
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Kevin White
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9/18/2008 4:45:34 PM
---- Updated 9/18/2008 4:46:48 PM
Bingo.
That wasn't too wordy, was it?
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