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IAC Prime Member
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/13/2010 4:32:58 PM
for Frater (Never Never band)
the other thread was closed------
So pull this lyric apart Frater!
"She loves you yeah yeah yeah"
definitely created with divine inspiration????
absolutely IMO!!!!!
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Aimee Terrin
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2/13/2010 5:09:31 PM
Such profound and thought provoking lyrics, wouldn't you say?? Def Divine Inspiration! LMAO...love it
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never never band
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2/13/2010 5:09:57 PM
um...
Aimee is a weird duck (but then so am I )
why did she delete my least offensive post before she nuked that thread...??
I had dropped a link to Eric McFadden
A guy from my town who is now the guy George Clinton took on as his guitar player.
Eric is the ultimate independent musician with more great material created than all the peeps on this board combined, and he's TRULY innovative, he creates astonishing music with several combos that is Oblivious to trends..
I had mentioned him because she Dropped George Clintons name , hmmmm.
anyway, you miss my point.
The thrust of my criticism was the copycat mentality in R&B music and production.
The amazing lowering of the bar when it comes to innovation.
and, for the record, I dont think John and Paul were going around asking if their songs might be inspired by GOD.
Nor were they making cookie cutter copies of a dozen other artists....
That stuff was revolutionary when it hit the airwaves.
Obviously...
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Aimee Terrin
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2/13/2010 5:23:37 PM
Frater, again...this is getting very tired...about 20 posts back, I CLARIFIED what I had originally intended to convey. Lowering of the bar...wow...Are we done yet? I know I am...
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never never band
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2/13/2010 7:12:11 PM
I didn't start this thread...
but it was addressed to me..
que no?
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/13/2010 7:13:47 PM
Maaaate! (with respect)
Have ewe no humour in that crusty ol' frame----????
Ewe missed the point I say-----taking lyrics out and putting them up as an example w/out the surrounding arrangement gurgles farts flanges etc etc
that is my point, the simplest line can sound like gods voice IMO
sunshine not shadows
Rob
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Kevin White
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2/13/2010 9:05:31 PM
In a gadda da vida ...
... baby.
:)
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Steve Iannetti
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2/14/2010 6:40:56 AM
Cheers Frater P.
To A.T.: Go fish.
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Aimee Terrin
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2/14/2010 9:42:47 AM
?
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Aimee Terrin
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2/14/2010 9:45:40 AM
fishing is great!
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Steve Iannetti
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2/14/2010 12:53:10 PM
I wouldn't know. I never went fishing in my life.
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Jeff Allen Myers
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2/14/2010 2:44:12 PM
---- Updated 2/14/2010 2:51:00 PM
Innovation in music.....hmm... Peter Gabriel dressed up like a Giant Hogweed, with well thought out lyrics, and beautiful arrangements....now that was and still is innovative 40 years later. However, Most don't get it or appreciate it. Most that do are creative types/musicians/or partake in a bit of herbal therapy now and again.
Innovation is great, but it is not a prerequisite to great music. Or more importantly, music that truly connects with people
In R &B the beauty comes from the Voice, the groove, the heart,...the soul. Can these be improved through "Innovation" How do you innovate the greatness of the human voice?? Slap autotune on it??? (Gag) A well sung, well written song will always cut through the noise, innovation should not be the goal...the goal should be to convey the message through song and connect with the listener. This can be done with modern equipment, or a simple guitar and voice. When you are succesfull, innovation may result...but it is a byproduct, not a method in itself.
Peace
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never never band
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2/14/2010 6:37:47 PM
---- Updated 2/14/2010 6:39:23 PM
there was a time when R&B covered a HUGE variety of sounds and approaches.
And when the songs weren't so oversung. I like some of that, but not on every goddam tune. Where is the subtle and clear sond in modern R7B vocal work?
I used to bug Shanon about that, she can sing like MAD but she tends to oversing.
man, I keep having to go back to Cassandra Wilson!!
cassandra wilson
That woman is a study in how to sing tastefully and FOR THE SONG!
she's always singing for the song......
she's gorgeously understated, and that subtlety gives you chills...
and she uses real players, the best players.
I think every modern R&B singer should be forced to listen to every Cassandra Wilson piece ever recorded. Of course Cassandra isn't a modern R&B stylist, but she's the one these gals should be listening to.
Today R&B is a Genre where all of tunes are so similar in production and vocalization....it kind of depresses me, it's a Brand, now really..
You know, Aimee has a killer voice, the productions are are pro, but they all sound like they are part of this new R&B brand!!
but why not hire a fucking drummer and a bass player?
If you want to give it a "jazzy" sound it not about just adding a goddam sax, gimme a real jazz drummer sitting at it!
some variety and nuance, some high hat work!!
R&B used to be all about these killer drummers and real bass players, even when the drums were delightfully simple it was still a drummer, you could hear a musicians Style comming though, Horn parts with a real horn section! changing up the lines and actually playing this stuff rather than "creating" it at a desk. this music has lost it's soul because it's not being played, it's being sequenced.
There's no feel of improvization, no nuanced percussion, there's no dynamics...
I guess can understand that in modern Hip Hop, I may still not like it but at least the genre was created along those lines, but even in Rap and Hip Hop Samples and turntables and just clever on the fly ideas have turned to Logic sequencers Reason and even the quirkyness and lively feel of early Rap music is gone now.
Actually, I dont know why Aimee bugs me, it's my issue obviously..
but there you have it. I have a chance to shoot my mouth off to a lady who's in this genre and bitch about what I think is destroying the genre..
I'm gonna yell a little , I love this music, R&B, Funk, The MOWTOWN Soul scene... I grew up on it.
And I've watched it all turn to shit.
go here and learn ...........
cassandra wilson
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Steve April
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2/14/2010 6:56:49 PM
hi guys...
well every artist, including very good artists, will have A songs and perhaps songs that are not strictly A.
when we warm to a voice (artist), the non-A songs can really grow on ya, and become the A songs lol..
for whatever reason, the less than perfect production, or vocal, can become very endearing. and endure through many listens, like a vulnerable gaze at a party lol!!!
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Jeff Allen Myers
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2/14/2010 7:21:15 PM
---- Updated 2/14/2010 7:23:09 PM
Well Frater, you are off the "Innovation" angle, what you are talking about is something I can get behind. Having actual musicians on a song is not innovation... :)
I can't stand the samples, the computer generated Drum tracks, The synth Basses....
but I won't condemn a current artist that uses them...blame the listeners that embrace it.
There is a huge back log of music to enjoy, it is going nowhere, we can still enjoy all the classics, and I suspect many Artists that are not well known. We are not hurting for music to listen to. Now music to see Live?? That is another issue, that has gone down hill for many years.
I can share your frustrations, just not the pointed barbs at an artist here that you don't approve of. If you don't like it, don't listen to it...Ms.Terrin is not responsible for the downfall of RnB.
Find artists you can support, or make the music you want to hear yourself. I am sure those enamored with Tommy Dorsey weren't too thrilled when Elvis or The Beatles came along. It was not as sophisticated in many ways...but such is Popular music...it tends to be driven by the Public and their tastes.
Peace.
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Kevin White
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2/14/2010 7:26:46 PM
It is hard to quantify art on a personal level. Wait ...
It's impossible to quantify art on a personal level ... yeah, that's it.
When one says "This speaks to me." ... it comes through filters no other individual has the same combination of.
I comment (duh), but I know all I'm doing is conveying what it is at any given moment. I don't speak truth, I only speak what strikes worth comment. Have I ever put my foot in my mouth? Never! :)
I feel the truth is best served by not blowing smoke up anyone's ass. If the artist is uncomfortable, good ... they should be. They'll incorporate honest comment, dismiss what they don't agree with ...
... and hopefully be made better by having knowledgeable people not kiss their ass.
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Bob Rylett
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2/14/2010 7:36:20 PM
---- Updated 2/14/2010 7:54:56 PM
I was playing a folk festival a few years back, fantastic experience, many big names especially here in Canada. One man that made a big impression was Brent Titcomb, a Vancouver born musician with an impressive resume, old school brilliant, google him.
Anyway, as we all did our sets, I had a band at the time, as did almost everyone at the festival , be it a duo or what have you, Brent got up there with nothing, nada empty handed, except for the mike of course we are outside. He begins just clapping, asks us to join in, then starts stompin his foot, different rhythm from the first and then he began to sing...he did his whole set with nothing (he is an accomplished musician of many different varieties) about 40 45 minutes of sheer greatness...everyone stood to applause, as it was quiet and we had just been mesmerized by a man in sandals who outshone full band production...It was so inspiring for me, yet others felt cheated because he didn't play an instrument...he just showed us music comes from 2 people and they are just as important as each other...the music maker and the music listener....
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/14/2010 7:49:05 PM
---- Updated 2/14/2010 8:07:04 PM
Bob Rylett pointed out about how being an entertainer and performer is more important then being a top notch musician in the case of Brent Titcomb, although he is all of that
"he just showed us music comes from 2 people the and they are just as important as each other...the music maker and the music listener"....
And the same goes for Stompin Tom conners..it is what is in the heart and how you connect to the audience.....anyone can learn toplay an instrument and sing but few can really entertain and engage an audience...live is where it is at anyways....that is where the cream really rises and if you can connect you got it made....even the ordinary average person in music out there can reach peoples hearts, you dont have to have the chops and all that....but it does help, but I have seen pretty average musicians do better in pulling in fans then those with all the grooves and moves and so called leading edge pushing the envelop shite.....the thing is be approachable, have fun and engage people make them a part of the show. anyone can do a record,get a sound, hire the best musicians and have the best of everything, that dont guarantee success.
bryon
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/14/2010 7:55:57 PM
---- Updated 2/14/2010 7:56:31 PM
oh and the comment from Steve Iannetti to Aimee, go fish, that came through loud and clear here on this end bro,that was kinda sarcastic Steve...come on man.....I got it right away. surprised at your saying that man, maybe most did not get it . I did...... ...
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Jeff Allen Myers
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2/14/2010 9:00:55 PM
---- Updated 2/14/2010 9:02:36 PM
Kevin,
I am only speaking to the negativity towards an Artist on this thread, I can't speak to the "Kissing Ass" part. That is distasteful as well.Maybe that was the impetus to begin with...I won't get into that as to each his own. So I will just step aside ... carry on :)
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Kevin White
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2/14/2010 9:56:30 PM
---- Updated 2/15/2010 8:07:38 AM
Some's biggest concern is that they are actually gifted ... whether it be looks, intelligence, talent ... etc ...
... and others will say and do things that aren't quite honest ... because they want something from the person based on criteria other than the person or their talents themselves ...
... that aren't quite honest nor beneficial ... nor altruistic for that person ... because of perhaps less than honest reasons for the association, and the leverage and/or immediate benefit that may be harvested.
I hate being cynical as such ... still ...
Ask any model.
Ask the wealthy.
Ask the famous.
Said are always aware ... for ... any of above are very cognizant of who they are personally in the world ... that which matters to them ... may not be specifically what the world may prey from them.
Sad ... but in that light ... people who aren't asking anything back ... and are still willing to be forthright ... should be appreciated accordingly. All information is good information ... particularly when it's clean data.
Take it all in.
Jettison the crap ... keep to heart what rings true.
No more or less than that.
Don't worry about anything else.
There's too much noise out there to take it too too personally.
So don't ... and allow the voices who attempt honesty honestly to voice their valued take on matters. No one should get hurt by such, and only perspective is gained.
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/14/2010 10:11:53 PM
---- Updated 2/14/2010 10:13:17 PM
good stuff from everyone here and thanks Kev for your take, we all have our own perspective as you say Kev, Music, Just do it for the love of it. have fun, and enjoy.....the gift you have developed
ultimately it is for self enjoyment....not everyone can create, some just interpret others just listen and go , that was good.....too simple..yup and that is the way it should be
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/15/2010 12:04:19 AM
Phew!!
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Kevin White
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2/15/2010 8:09:24 AM
---- Updated 2/15/2010 8:32:47 AM
Yeah, Rob, I know ...
:)
Jeff, my thoughts were not in your direction ... I'm sorry if you mistook them to be a reflection on what you said. I can see now in juxtaposition ... so I should have prefaced my comment such.
My thoughts were more global. They weren't about any particular artist.
They were about ALL who might have "a something" others seek or desire, and how sometimes that "colors" true honesty to varying degrees.
All information is good information. How we internally process said information is what we can control and in doing so separate the wheat and discard the chaff ...
... but I'd rather have the information fed from a well intentioned source than one perhaps compromised by those seeking some advantage.
Such valuable sources should never be censored, told to be silent, or even pull their punch.
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/15/2010 2:07:04 PM
I don't want to trivialise what has become an excellent thread---as I was being re- active rather than pro -active-----
Kev---said
"They were about ALL who might have "a something" others seek or desire, and how sometimes that "colors" true honesty to varying degrees."
I put my hand up !
also----there is a continuim from when we start to play music,and practise-- to the point when we are good enough (in our own opinion) to publish that music to the web
Most of us sound like shite at some stage along this journey!
So why jump on an artist for not sounding "original enough " or "clever enough"
to suit our taste------as a teacher I say that sucks!!!!!
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Tony Vani and Debbie Hoskin
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2/15/2010 4:17:20 PM
I think we tend to tell people they suck, if/when they are getting attention we feel they don't deserve or maybe we believe we are more deserving of that attention than them somehow.
If someone really and truly sucks, I've noticed that they usually get no attention at all; they are no competition. For those people who really do suck, no one ever tells them they suck. We seem to pity spare them of the insults. :-)
However, if they truly suck but are doing well despite sucking, they really get slammed.
Now on the other hand, if someone is showing great talent and experiencing success, well, that's another story. Not always are we happy for them. It largely depends on how much respect we have for that artist and how deserving we think they are. We really are at each other's mercy..........
Am I making any sense or am I just babbling?
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Phlegm
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2/15/2010 4:27:40 PM
---- Updated 2/15/2010 5:05:43 PM
yup. made perfect sense to me.
I often have GUILT, for feeling jealous of the success of other IAC Artists, and other artists I've gotten to work with in the past....
but it quickly passes, when I realize there's a REASON that their progressing!
And When you're talking about an Indie Artist becoming successful; well it's just hard to be green with envy for too long.....'cause I've got the same damn dream in the back of my mind, and if even a little cash we're to come MY way; I mean, just to have the leisure to really record everything I've written of any merit; and REALLY take the live show to the next level (I.E. TOURING abroad).....
well..... MAN, I'd take the money and RUN, in a HEARTBEAT !'
Basically folks, I've gotta get my ass to the UK, because it's becoming CLEAR, THAT's where things are gonna take off, if anywhere.
Congrats to ANYBODY who started out real small, and has had good things happen to 'em..... That's what I say.
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/15/2010 4:44:21 PM
---- Updated 2/16/2010 12:38:06 AM
Amen to what Debbie, Phlegm and Silverwood said
and Let the music speak for itself....right...if it grabs or moves ya. then that is magic
Ok may many "more" surprises "continue" to happen around this place as it always has and forever more. good ones, not bad vibes, let the cool fine groovin happening stuff carry on.ok lets .continue to rock and roll.
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/16/2010 12:20:44 AM
"Dude"
)(:^D
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/16/2010 4:51:40 PM
all done?
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LyinDan
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2/16/2010 7:26:17 PM
I'd kiss some ass to get back on the Hitline :)
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Kevin White
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2/16/2010 7:34:36 PM
---- Updated 2/16/2010 7:50:18 PM
Ok ... perhaps random ... but you are a very focused marketeer! Or maybe the opposite of that!
Still what I want to know is ...
Is the sky still blue on clouded days?
That's not random.
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/16/2010 11:08:16 PM
Kev said and wondered "Is the sky still blue on clouded days?"
well Kev, on the days that it is nice this is how it works, which you probably know
========================================================
WHY IS THE SKY BLUE?
The blue color of the sky is due to Rayleigh scattering. As light moves through the atmosphere, most of the longer wavelengths pass straight through. Little of the red, orange and yellow light is affected by the air.
However, much of the shorter wavelength light is absorbed by the gas molecules. The absorbed blue light is then radiated in different directions. It gets scattered all around the sky. Whichever direction you look, some of this scattered blue light reaches you. Since you see the blue light from everywhere overhead, the sky looks blue.
=========================================================
that is why we have blue skies
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never never band
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2/16/2010 11:51:09 PM
---- Updated 2/17/2010 12:38:33 AM
this thread is even dumber than the one it references.
It's amazing, and a little nauseating to watch people try the thread the needle, trying to find a way to say something relevant or constructive or even just interesting without stepping on anybodies toes.
Of course that makes it so no one can really say anything provocative or interesting about anybody else.....but I guess thats perfect really because every last one of you really only wants to talk about yourselves.
I realized something back in 1999 about hese sorts of communities, they really amount to little more than a sicko, sycophantic mutual admiration society.
You cant give or recieve anything even remotely constructive or helpfull in a place like this.
Everyone is so goddam fragile, and so utterly self absorbed.
Why the fuck are you all advertising to each other here?
How in the world can that help you? Especially if even slightest actual criticism sends everyone into this bizzarre tip toeing cowardly pontificating nonsense.
"It's all good and peace and love and as long as you like it nothing else matters"
Bullshit!!, thats a recipe for mediocrity.......
Artists should be critical of each other, challenging to each other.
We're supposed to be calling each other on our bullshit, pushing each other to be better and challenging each other look a bit more honestly and critically at our work and ourselves.
If you want someone to fluff you go to your Fans.
Not other artists.
I dont know if it's some worry about how controversy or even just honesty will negatively effect your standing here or your stats, but why would anyone care?
20,000 listens here wont make you a penny, niether will 200,000 or 2 million. So what the hell good is a community like this unless we can somehow use it to make ourselves better artists?
And no amount of back patting or gladhandling or compliment trading will make you a better artist.
Are you all just here for feel goody stuff?
Shit, I'd think most of you could, and probably do, get that from your mirror...
yer pal
Frater P.
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Jeff Allen Myers
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2/17/2010 1:14:52 AM
Nothing is stopping any of us from being an ass Frater...., except perhaps a bit of civility.
How will tearing someone down make them better? Or bitching about some lost ideal of what music is supposed to be...or played?
I don't come here to get smoke blown up my rear end, and I don't come here to get it kissed either. I come here for a bit of diversion, and to share my music...If people discover my music...great! That is my goal. If they like it, great...if they don't...great!!.. I have no control over how it is received.
This is a site to share music, some people are not happy unless there is a flame fest...some people don't feel good about themselves unless they are tearing others down. I am not sure if this defines you, but something definitely has you riled. It seems to be an issue of some receiving "Undue" attention in your eyes. I won't speak for you.
Each of us as musicians will improve on their own terms, if we believe the fluff...we probably won't get better..we will become complacent/ However, negativity won't do a damn thing either. It starts and ends within...no one will make you better...or worse then yourself.
Since I posted on this thread, and you addressed us all, seemingly as a group I thought I would respond.I am not looking to get in an argument as there is nothing to be gained.I am not sure what you are asking...do you want us to tell people they suck? That they are not as good as they think they are??? Do you want honest feedback and suggestions on ways to improve?? Some people are not interested in critique, some people just want to share their songs. The songs speak for themselves....we all know which ones are good...and which ones are bad no matter what is said in a public forum.
Seems this is a common dilemma on just about every site I have been on...anyway I am rambling...sorry about that. :).
Frater, you seem to have a great love for music, from what I have gathered in my time here. I don't know what is going on behind the scenes, what has been said...or has not been said. This site is what it is...make what you want of it. It is better then most. There is only a handful of people that seem to contribute to the pipeline...its only natural that most of us avoid pissing each other off. :)
Peace.
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never never band
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2/17/2010 2:36:33 AM
---- Updated 2/17/2010 2:39:35 AM
I'm just one of these people who lives in anticipation..
I'm watching and waiting for somthing extrordinary to happen in the arts and I'm trying to identify why that possibility seems more and more remote.
And I think (it bears repeating) a major part of the problem is we've been become so adept at celebrating the ordinary, marketing the ordinary, puffing it up and branding it that there just isn't enough drive, even in the very gifted among us to really do much more than imitate....
I'm painfully aware of my own limitations...so dont Imagine that I consider myself to be a contender, I'm in the arts because I have no idea what else to do, I wouldn't even know where to begin.
I'm fine with being an uncivil ass if thats what you want to call it. I dont really see it that way, I dont dont dish out anything that I wouldn't expect or invite from my peers.
The thing with Aimee was just my aversion to name dropping, self inflating people who have a constant need to advertise to their Peers and try to create some veneer of legitimacy based on who they know rather than what they know..
It annoys the shit out of me and it's insulting as an artist to be approached in an artists community on those terms.
It has nothing to do with whether her tallant is real, or considerable (I think it's both)
But it annoys the shit out of me to be treated like a fucking 8 year old consumer on an artists form where one would hope that this sort of nonsense is unnessesary.
I'M NOT YOUR TARGET AUDIENCE!!!
Fuck!!
Is that really all this is about here?
trying to market to each other???
If so then I'll do you all the favor of just shutting up and let you all go at it!
I just keep hoping for something more substantial than that in an online music business model...And for something more usefull in an artists community.
I'm not here to buy your CDs or tell you how clever you are and I'd hope you'll do me the favor of the same consideration.
An artists forum is supposed to be a community of peers who critique each others work and try to come up with models for presenting our work to the world, not to each other.
I dont fucking care who you know or who you blow, I dont need any convincing....
seriously, doesn't it annoy you or insult you even a little bit to have all these yucks comming on here advertising, giving you spin and bios and shit like their posting to their 25,000 myspace friends?
is that all this is?
P.
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never never band
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2/17/2010 2:36:34 AM
---- Updated 2/17/2010 2:37:33 AM
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Tony Vani and Debbie Hoskin
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2/17/2010 7:17:28 AM
Frater I think you make a really valid point. You have the prowess to say, what many people probably think but are too nice to say. I, personally, value your opinion. You say exactly what you are feeling and thinking. You certainly bring zest to the pipeline.
Maybe the kerfuffle here is not about what you say, but in the delivery of the message; comes out kind of agressively and puts people at instant defence. The content of what you say, though, is authentic. Your honesty is refreshing, just a little scarey at times. But I wouldn't want you to change, not that you would. :-)
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/17/2010 8:50:39 AM
---- Updated 2/17/2010 8:58:32 AM
I will say it one last time.
....
I listen to music for the joy of it. anyone everyone and occasionally say something
I have promoted people in the biz to radio, not just here , this is one aspect of what I use. , I love music, and so does everyone here,, some are here to share their music, and get some joy out of that, thats cool, some are here to interact and chat share ideas, collaborate, thats cool , some are here to promote and tell the world of their accomplishments,Some even name drop, big freaking bloody deal so what, if it helps them fine, I know one musician here in town who hates that sort of thing, he has played with the best, and guess what even though he hates it, he has to use it because he is in the God damn business and does film work, writes for movies, TV shows, he did not like it that the blue voodoo dropped joni mitchells name, but he does it on his own resume, and this guy has played with some of the shit hot bands , so name dropping aint all that bloody bad, cause dude, it gets you big money work!!!!!!!! so I am all good with that too, but let me say this in all candor, if anyone here is looking to find that gem , that one or two or 10 20 gems it aint gonna happen here but a few times, where it happens, where that magic happens is out playing live, and if we could capture that magic then that be sweet, and yes it happens on occasion, rarely, to hear that special something that moves ya,,,,again lets be absolutely clear here, what pleases one is not gonna grab someone else , because music is a a very personal thing, and everyone is going to look or hear something that makes them go, wow, that was pretty cool, or the musicianship or writing in that song was mind boggling whether it was a instrumental , whether it was a one off, improvisational thing or whether some one sat down like an architect, and planned out their song like a bonafide songcrafter , who polishes and perfects that special song into a wonderful symphony of sorts....music is so personal, so special we cant sit here, blab our asses off and tell one or the whole commmunity what we think it is all about, that is being presumptuous and arrogant and even condescending, maybe I am not getting what Frater is saying, I respect Frater as a musician, I like his technical abilities. quite frankly if Frater brought his playing up to the jazz cellar here in Vancouver I am sure he would knock peoples socks off, I have listened to most of his songs and have included a few songs on some stations here at iac, I like what he does, but i sure, right now , dont like having to deal with the attitude.so I would never ever take on promoting him nor would he want that either, taht is not his gig, he wants something that few can deliver, that experience aint gonna happen like it did in the past Frater except on a very very rare occasion, and it is like searching for the proverbial needle in a haystack, but wait, what am i saying here, again what you see or hear and think rocks the shit out of you and you get a hard on from aint gonna rock the shit or turn me or others on, ,that is where you are not getting it. you can pontificate here all you want about what you think is lacking and the mediocricty that you see here..
keep doing it, because it looks good on you,
alright next
., I aint gonna at anytime, here on this board rail on anyone...I do it in private. I am not the God of music like some here. but I think I have a decent pair of ears and provide some insight of my years in music, playing, writing, teaching, helping artists.
but I am never gonna rip someone apart. and on occasion I have offered some suggestions of improvement on a few artists music here...
But as it is my nature to be civil and respectful, i am not going to be angry about artists trying to promote their music here, sometimes I may just become interested and assist them in their career...if I can......I am going to be the professional I am in my dealings with another human being.
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Jeff Allen Myers
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2/17/2010 10:41:14 AM
Frater,
I can understand what your point is, but as Silverwood said not your delivery of the message.
First, there are...or have been sites that exist as a forum for artists to critique, collaborate, discuss, enlighten, etc... Many no longer exist. One (The name escapes me) just closed its doors.
The pipeline is not set up that way, its set up as an araea where we can talk about anything, and yes ..human nature being what it is, most like to talk about themselves.
I have nothing against Aimee, she has a good voice and she is creating music that many in todays market seem to like. When she first showed up here, she did name drop quite a bit and I guess it rubbed people the wrong way...
I wish her well, and all the success she can handle. She does seem to promote IAC quite a bit, so that is a good thing.
As far as promoting ourselves? We all want to be heard, personally I value fellow artist's opinions...so I hope they listen. As far as pipeline in general, I would hope there are more eyes on it then the ones that throw themselves out there by posting.
If I have a nw song, I will promote it here..period. I will not be obnoxious, but I want it known. For those that have CD'S? , By all means promote it here!
I agree, it gets stale here, and it seems that it nothing but a Love fest from time to time Personally, no one seems to comment much when I do have something to offer. So I don't see a Love fest :)
Anyway, I am rambling again.. I see your points Frater. As for new, better music...you can not will it on someone...its like yelling at someone to get them to run faster...they will only go as fast as their natural ability will take them. Hard work is an ingredient, but many times the talent needs to be there first.
Peace
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Kevin White
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2/17/2010 11:35:19 AM
I think what Frater's big problem is is the OMD's outdated business model. I ranted last night in my own thread pretty much along similar lines ... I keep waiting for OMD's to evolve ... and yet, they remain stuck w/ artist's promoting mostly to each other.
IF artists could somehow get promos on listener's stations, then that would change the paradigm ... but it also might turn off listeners.
K-
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/17/2010 11:42:18 AM
Start your own promo biz model and assist other musicians, this is the way it is going, supporting one another....lots of musicians do and stay away from the politics of what is happening here. one way is the live music scene, this is being done here with a live singer songwriter series with major sponsorship and radio jumping onboard., recording video, of it for TV or artists sites, live recordings are being done, it is not just a regular gig , but one that grows the circle of musicians and expands the community
As a musician you can do a lot for your community if you think outside of the normal box of just getting gigs ,, which is vital and important for survival and perhaps devoting some of that time helping your fellow musician. the fruits are amazing because you become each others advocate and grow the business of not just self promotion, but sharing your skills you have developed into being a host featuring other artists and still getting a chance to be a part of the show and jamming with the featured musician at the end of the show........it works and is really taking off here
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The Man With No Band
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2/17/2010 12:01:13 PM
---- Updated 2/17/2010 12:05:23 PM
Interesting pair of threads ...
I can see where Frater P. is coming from ... and I understand it to a point ...
I think all of us are somewhat like minded individuals (music lovers, seekers etc. etc.) ... and yet each of us is our own individual.
I tell people when I like something because that is just who I am ... but if you specifically ask me my opinion I'll give it ... I'm probably not the best critic or pusher, because I like most stuff. (So does that somehow make me not credible)? ...
I am no man that needs to be, or deserves to be, put on some kind of pedestal, but I do appreciate kind words.
Most people here know about all my personal failings and things that life has thrown my way. (Mostly because I blab a lot) ... But I do not consider my trials and tribulations any worse than anyone else's ... I use words to vent a lot, not for attention ... and I just enjoy writing ...
I also use words to express my appreciation ... You speak of pushing and making each other better ... Sorry ... I don't need pushed and I push with encouragement ... I push myself to the max most everyday ... and yet, I will never be able to hold a candle to Artist such as yourself Frater P. ... Although I'd like to believe that there are no limitations, the fact of the matter is there are ...
I'll never be a GREAT guitar player ... I practice and practice and practice ... but my fingers don't work so good anymore ... I can't fix that ...
I'll never be a GREAT engineer ... my ears don't work so good anymore ... and as hard as I try, my recording skills are just not there ...
I'll never be a GREAT singer ... cuz I just wasn't blessed with the pipes ... (but that ain't gonna stop me from singing, cuz it feels good) ...
I'll never be a GREAT critic ... cuz I only wish I could do what others can do and I don't like criticizing people who can do what I can't ...
There is a lot I'll never be GREAT at ... but with all those limitations (and everyone has their own) ... one thing I try to leave out there is what's inside my heart ... now that may sound cheesy to some ... or some kind of cop out to others ... and it may not be enough to some ... and it may be to much for others ... but frankly ... I don't give a damn ... cuz it's all I got
If ya don't like "mediocre" folks, that put out "mediocre" music, then ask management here to throw all us bums out ... Personally, I don't mind hanging out where I can hear the "elite" along with the "regular" ...
As far as the model of the OMD ... it is what you make it ...
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Jeff Allen Myers
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2/17/2010 12:40:55 PM
Well Sam, just keep singing, playing, writing from the heart....It begins and ends there. No amount of technical ability will make up for a lack of it....
Music is subjective...it has been said many times, but it is an important point. Some can't stand to listen to the great, technical players. It is lost on them...the music is just noise.To others, it is an ideal...one that diminishes all other creativity and music.
Some hate the Music of Mozart....some hear incredible beauty...others hear elevator music...background noise.
The Music of Cohen, Cash, Dylan..... not the greatest singers...not the greatest musicians....however, to some they are the beginning and the end. The point is...we cannot dictate what others will like, and try as we might to transcend and enlighten, we can only express personal opinions that only apply to ourselves.
We can enforce basic standards, but in the end the music will stand or fall on it's own.
According to the numbers presented by IAC, people are listening. If the numbers are true, then those ears have eyes...and they see what we write on these pages. Sometimes it seems we are lost on an island with each other, but I would like to think that is not the case. Maybe we are just sick of each other ? :) It would be nice to read other opinions, especially from listeners. We have a few here and I appreciate them....we have new artists showing up, and that is great as well. All in all,I have nothing to complain about. The internet is still a godsend to us musician/ writer types. We will always want more, but that is nothing new.
Peace
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never never band
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2/17/2010 2:12:44 PM
oh brother...
why is this so hard to understand without getting all hurt and pouty?
Do you really think I'm taking about Sams Music?
Man, talk about fragile people!!
I'm talking about an artists community that is honest and critical and works towards creating beter art!
And an Online Radio Broadcasting Company that works towards creating revenue and an honest a credble income source for the Content Providers (that would be musicians)
the OMD model is what you make of it?
Thats bullshit, the model is what the owners of the buiness make of it, "we" have nothing to do with it save providing the product and hoping against hope that something will come of it.
So whats left then?
Maaybe an artists community that works towards honest critique?
Encouragement to make a credible alternative to the endless drivel of mainstream music that you all complain about?
Or is that gonna be out of your hands too?
thats what I'm asking I guess, again, is this just a place to hang out and play music for each other?
Pat each other on the back?
if so fine, but I wonder why then are there charts and stations and subsciption fees and different levels of subsciption and contests and Hit Lines and such?
that makes it "look like" this is supposed to be an internet radio broadcasting compnay..
which is a FAR CRY from the place you all are describing .
Sam may be right, it may just be "what you make of it"
congratulations on making another incestuous little stroke fest...
really big thinking guys!!
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never never band
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2/17/2010 2:22:27 PM
look, I'm sorry I sound so pissed off.
I know I'm painting with too broad a brush here.
I know a LOT of you would like a better model.
But where will you suggest such a thing?
who's listening?
the fact that this Model here is entirely closed off from input creates this strange little community that doeasn;t challenge the business model, doesn't chalenge each other, ad just sort of coasts along....
I'm angry as hell, I admit it, but I've been at this internet music scene for quite a while...
And I'm so fucking flabergated that so many artists with so much strong product cant make a damn thing happen!
Not only cant we get a sensible distribution compnay together, we cant even help each other make better art!!
it's all Taboo!!
And in a way Sam is right, It's what we make of it.... It's OUR fault for continuing to settle for these closed little systems where we end up paying to play our music for each other...
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/17/2010 2:29:37 PM
Frater
Well this started as a reaction to something ewe said on another thread---
Somehow ewe want to be able to give shit to others, but when cornered ewe come out like a cornered rat---I can give shit too but it's not how I choose to live---
to group ALL on the thread together for their expressed opinions is banal !!
I doubt that ewe have even listened to most of the artists on this thread???
I have enough dramas in my real life --I don't need to create them online to pump up my ego
Maybe ewe should try fishing? sniff!
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The Man With No Band
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2/17/2010 2:32:07 PM
All good points Frater P. ... and I'm not arguing with you in the slightest ... (except about the OMD model) ... and the shmoozefest you seem to see as the only thing going on here ...
They (IAC) have provided a place here to post our music and rant our rants ... If we were worth a shit, we'd go get the listeners ... if we expect them to do it and feel that's what we are paying for, then we should revolt and demand that or pull our accounts ... Is that what you are suggesting ? If so ... tell me where we should all go ... Myspace ?
If you are just speaking of the shmoozing and stuff ... then it is what we make of it and the brass here can do nothing about it ...
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never never band
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2/17/2010 2:38:13 PM
---- Updated 2/17/2010 2:38:42 PM
Silver, I've listened to EVERY artist on this thread dumbo....
but again IM NOT YOUR TARGET AUDIENCE!!!
WHY WOULD YOU EVEN CARE?
How many people on this forum have bought anything from you???
why is it that the thousands of listens you read on your charts add up to ZERO SALES?????
look, if you all want to just have a little stroke club go ahead, you're not the first ones to come up with that idea.
Actually I listen to the stations on I-tunes, and I wonder why we havn't crossed that gap?
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The Man With No Band
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2/17/2010 2:53:26 PM
I really, really think you are expecting to much out of ANY omd to make a big difference in your fan base or your music sales ...
Even if this place was just full of insightful maestro's helping each other get better, if this is one's only marketing plan, then the ship will sink .. :)
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Jeff Allen Myers
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2/17/2010 3:04:34 PM
---- Updated 2/17/2010 3:10:48 PM
I don't get the incestuous bullshit you keep spouting..., I also did not think you were talking about Sam, I am just trying to make subtle points that you are not getting...you seem to be stuck on a few ideas.
As for paying? I paid one fee in 2007, and have been here for free ever since as a perpetual member. I guess the music I provide is content, so that is my payment.
As for supporting each other? What the hell is wrong with that? I have bought cds's from many here who have them for sale.
This is basically a site to host music, with some very cool features built in.... It is not built to generate money for any of us, that is entirely up to us.,.... tho they have tried to pay us for the listens we get.If you have a better model...put up the capital, blood , sweat and tears and get a site going...I will be there to check it out and sign up.
I don't complain about mainstream music, I have no problem finding acts and songs that I like.I don't subscribe to the idea its all bullshit, and we indies are getting side stepped. Fact is, many who have made it are just plain talented and better then us, and they have invested time and necessary work , me?? not so much....just the way it is Brother.
As for the stroke fest? I seem to be missing out on that...so please...a little lower to the left. :)
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never never band
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2/17/2010 3:27:07 PM
well,,,,there you go.
so when I ask "Is that all this is?"
you're saying the answer is "yes, thats all this is"
fine..
You're probably right.
But you'd never know it from the front page...
It looks like an internet radio broadcasting company.
It has charts, endless stations, hit lines...
right?
who is that for?
for us?
The content providers?
I know they cant do much more here because they have no capital.
which sucks, I've known some of the people who made this site for over a decade and I know they would do it if they could.
But they cant, so that leaves us, just hangin out and what?
refusing to challenge each other?
just saying nice things and thats it?
I'm still on about the "independent music revolution" but I guess most of you never even considered that....
There was a time when we imagined we could supplant the major labels death grip on content distribution and create a world of novelty and opportunity in music again..
HA HA!!
a new golden age!
Something extraordinary!!!
my bad.
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The Man With No Band
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2/17/2010 3:58:06 PM
"I'm still on about the "independent music revolution" but I guess most of you never even considered that....
There was a time when we imagined we could supplant the major labels death grip on content distribution and create a world of novelty and opportunity in music again.."
The problem is ... indies COULD have supplanted major labels ... now it's not really something that's a worthwhile goal ...
people don't buy music in the same manner as when we were younger ... I'm not saying it's right ... it's just a fact ...
The labels killed themselves ... and radio has sucked from almost the beginning.... There have always been a MINORITY of people searching for good music ... Most of the listening public doesn't care !...
... and as far as content distribution, MOST music in films and such today are coming from independents and there are some doors opening ...
I haven't bought a lot of music lately ... but what I have, has been indie and it will be that way for me from now on ...
and sites like this ... that carry great content are the reason why ... and I'm sure I'm not alone ... so whether you believe it or not, OMD's have helped ...
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Jeff Allen Myers
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2/17/2010 4:01:21 PM
---- Updated 2/17/2010 4:02:17 PM
Well according to the Stats,( if they are to be believed... that is another conversation all together) people are listening...so I guess the stations are for them...whoever the hell they are :)
So, not committing to anything...but lets just say for the sake of arguement I would meet your challenge.
Go ahead challenge me...what form would it take?...what would you like me to do?
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Steve April
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2/17/2010 6:43:10 PM
my impression is there's a relatively new federal (?) statute about internet payment plays/and rates. basically, do not remember all the details, however, basic rate = $1/500 plays.
however, many online music sites maintain they could be out of business if they paid the rate, so recall they may have reduced the rate to approx. $.25/500 plays. (more affordable for sites, while they consider)
off the cuff...when statute passed, 10,000 plays/month = $20/month (very approx)
under revised rate 10,000 plays/month = $4/month (approx)
(more info please if this is off., or there's an update...
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