Topics
IAC Prime Member
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/6/2007 4:46:59 PM
Is rock becoming middle class?
We think most music playing on the main stream airwaves today supports the status quo, be it Rock, Pop, Emo, whatever!
Chewing gum for the middle class minds, Aural wallpaper to cover the cracks in society!
Artists trying to "make it" rather than concentrating on telling their story.
Does music always have to please? sound pretty? well recorded and engineered, or is this a trap where everyone gradually begins to sound the same?
We just put up THE NOBODY about the rejects of the middle class society, people who live in old cars, or sleep in the bushes in the local park.pick up the butts in the mall, Do you know these guys?
Or have you carefully insulated yourself from their presence?
OK , I don't seek them out either, but I can't separate them from my life because of their percieved weaknesses / these are survivors / Nobody WILL SURVIVE!!!
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SqurlyMurly
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2/6/2007 8:01:27 PM
They said it all this morning on the Today show--that a studio and producer can make even the most mediocre vocalist shine like a brand new penny.
That is why I prefer to listen to the artists at indie sites. I like music that comes from the heart and isn't so over processed that it becomes sanitized. Rock was meant to be raw in my opinion.
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Hugh Hamilton
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2/7/2007 7:09:09 AM
The Queen of England knights rock stars. Beatle postage stamps in.. the UK, a realm formerly reserved for military figures and royal family members. Those two facts say it all, don't they? The Rockers shifted society. The old left becomes the new center...
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Product Recall
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2/7/2007 7:40:14 AM
the same sht happened in the 90's when corporations realised grunge was a sellable product, shame they didn't realise the irony in that, and as we all know fashions come back round all the time. But in a world growing with more and more choice its easier to throw things away so dont worry i'm sure it wont last for too much longer as soon as these emo kids start living out their ideals and killing them selves normal order will resume, i'm sure of it.
Spread the love, and keep your dreams alive.
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Product Recall
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2/7/2007 11:08:20 AM
yeah i want one too, now you got me thinking
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Product Recall
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2/7/2007 12:47:08 PM
not me i'd much prefer a cravat with a nice peacock feather combo
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SqurlyMurly
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2/8/2007 12:02:49 PM
I want my Maypo.
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Product Recall
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2/8/2007 2:02:43 PM
this is all getting too much, now pass me my pipe and slippers, lets go discuss this over a glass of brandy like civilised gentlemen
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/8/2007 3:40:00 PM
Sounds cosy, whats that strange smell?
PS. to laree, I can't get rid of that typo! I tried x 4= 0
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Product Recall
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2/8/2007 4:37:52 PM
quick someones put the dog on the fire
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Dr Terribol
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2/8/2007 10:08:28 PM
King Silly bollocks the ninth I say I say I say,
orf with his head what a nasty little song, Said, Silly the whassisname.
King's son Cedric the third: O No pappar thats not allowed anymore
King Silly Bollocks the ninth: I'm king aint I, I'm allowed to do anything
King's son Cedric the third: Not no more you aint sire, there's them rules and we speak like commoners too nowadays, just listen to you, the royalty is becoming working class
King Silly: Working class, I'll have you know I were fed with ten silver soup spoons in my ere gob
Song of Silly Bollocks 3rd in line: Oew aaar, shut up now, let me explain to you pair of ignoramuses, it isn't we like all that rock n roll crap it's just those commoners have done so well, they've bought up more castles and ye olde stuff than we have ourselves. Is it not true that Elton John fellow could buy us out overnight, and he were a pal of Diana as well, so he might have been crowned Queen of England instead of your worship were it not for a clever bit of P from our offices..
Second Son of Silly: oi oi oi, yes what about Marc Knopfler! at least he were edumacated, he studied letters sire, he was like bad sex on booze or cheap wine, he made a big loud bang then fizzled out like a cheap old firework.
Ai I've studied it a bit, some make a big bang, as if they might have something to say, then take the gold pieces and run sire.
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Dr Terribol
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2/8/2007 11:48:54 PM
To be serious, I think this is a good topic and question.
What I imediately thought before my nonsensical last post, was that it is'ntperhaps so much a question of rock becoming middle class, because, my opinion is, that it became in the 60's quite a middle class thing, but then again, on the other hand, it did not.
Because there are so many people and so many musicians, to start with one of our kings Mr Jimi hendrix, I don't think he was what could be classed as middle class, but then I remember my previous thoughts on class systems and I remember I have churned this subject of what is class round and round in my brain, Hey Jim, yeah, wossamatter man? I got cocaine running around my brain.
Did rock n roll have a lot to do with drugs?
Is class something that was defined by breed or by money or by the things that a certain kind of group within society takes part, in, thus as it was, it was like this, before, before the 60's because it is exactly music, especially, even in the 50's but certainly finally inthe 60's that did force barriers and limitations to be broken up and or down and standards and ideas to be changed.
Still I don't think Rock n roll was like a working class thing in the 50's either.
I'm not even sure anymore if it can be defined as black or white, I have a suspicion that the original rock n roll was a black thing more than white, it is only that white people adopted it, and it became accepted by mainstream society, meaning middle class radio stations played it, and young people danced to it and did it too.
It was the pioneering whites who emulated their heroes, their black heroes, and it all turned into rock n roll, I do not think that one day rock n roll was born, it has, as it has with other genres, been a gradual process of change through invention and creativity and the passion and fire of youth.
It became so white that black people rejected it, because they have felt pushed out so many times and history has it down how their music was not accepted so is it any wonder that they have had problems with going wih the flow? Even Hendrix was looked down on because of the fear of so many black people of being made fools of by black people playing the Uncle Tom for whites, which has in turn everything to do with dignity and a lack of it but not lack of it by any own fault but being denied it and that is the pain heard in the blues.
Fear does a lot and even the guys who wanted to go and beat the Rolling Stones up for stealing their music dug it later on that they'd been helped to be accepted.
Little Richard heard his music being played one day and he went mad, he was so angry, nobody had told him, He said, They've done gone and taken my Long tall Sally, too! he couldn't believe it and wanted to go right on down trhere and smash a few people up, until later, when he appreciated that a certan breed of white kids had brought their music out of the segregationary tactics of apartheid, which played off in America, only it was not called apartheid, but it was aparheid.
Little Richard
Long Tall Sally Lyrics
Gonna tell Aunt Mary 'bout Uncle John,
he claims he has the misery but he has a lotta fun.
Oh baby,
ye-e-e-eh baby,
woo-o-o-oh baby,
havin' me some fun tonight.
Well, long tall Sally she's
built for speed, she got
everything that Uncle John need
Oh baby,
ye-e-e-eh baby,
woo-o-o-oh baby,
havin' me some fun tonight.
Well, I saw Uncle John with long tall Sally.
He saw Aunt mary comin' and he ducked back in the alley.
Oh baby,
ye-e-e-eh baby,
woo-o-o-oh baby,
havin' me some fun tonight.
We're gonna have some fun tonight,
gonna have some fun tonight.
We're gonna have some fun tonight,
everything will be alright.
We're gonna have some fun,
gonna have some fun tonight.
We're gonna have some fun tonight,
gonna have some fun tonight.
We're gonna have some fun tonight,
everything will be alright.
We're gonna have some fun,
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Chris Hance
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2/9/2007 12:25:59 AM
Jeepers that was a long way to make a good point, ha ha...
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/9/2007 5:22:40 PM
Dr TT !
You really are a wordsmith, man, I love reading your thoughts as expressed but typing with one finger keeps my replies short!
So yeah , exactly what you said, was what I was thinking / more or less
Cheers bud'
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Dr Terribol
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2/10/2007 3:05:53 PM
Hi there,
Thanks Silver
I think you ask or think up some good questions..
You must be doing good work when people relate to what you are saying, and your points are ones that have been part of what I have asked myself in the past.
The whole class thing is weird.
It is evenhard to define these days, not that it ever was easy or good to try to define before.
I grew up listening to this about class because my father wasa politician, and he was quite fanatically inclined in his endeavours, but even if he was incorrect, still, in all he did, his activities, which started in his youth right up until his death, he was an upright citizen, an honest man, and in his idealism, he had, even though perhaps being incorrect, an intention on a wider scale, which was to help the world, his model, was communism. He was not into violence, he would never find a thing and keep it for himself, he taught us that we have to think it through and think about how it would be if we had lost a possession like our wallet and how pleased we'd be to get it back, because the wallet might contain money of a family with which to eat, one can't know, it could be off a little old lady, so anyway, he at least tried to make us see that we should be conscious about the things we take part in, and be kind and be honest.
His politics, cause my mother to leave him and us, when I was 6, she did not share his noble ideas, and on a down to earth level, it was her who was at home all day trying to make a decent home for the 3 kids, and it was her, who though my dad only gave her a little bit of money and gave money as donation to the party, still expected her to put all of this food onthe table.
So my dad was selfless, unselfish in his ideals, the imaginary and maybe unrealistic, the fantasy world of thought but in reality, in the not understanding of the price of food and his expectations of a family at home he unduid his own marriage and family, because he being an only child had not been taught, how to share nor had he learnt how to calculate the cost of his actions or the cost of food and home.
my mother one of 15 kids, knew how to share, and seing as they'd all just gotten through the second world war, as kids themselves she wasn't into sharing the little she had with the entire world, which was how she experienced my fdad's dreamland estate of affairs.
These things brought me in my own life, with my own being and own experience added, to arrive at questions about the purpose of our lives. And realising my mother and father both were a mix of sheer unselfishness and pure selfishness, I wondered what it was I came t do being stuck in the middle.
Then I realised that we all do havea purpose on earth, for the greater complexities of all existence and for our own deliverance out of the bonds of suffering, by what we learn.
People build things but some things are not built by humans and it is somewhere in there that the biggest lessons are to be learnt.
Ones not influenced by any human darkness but only pure light.
So I began to think and understand that we have purpose, even by and through the way we are born and who to.
The thing that is hard to understand uis that to get anywhere near grasping these things one has to undo all of the false learning we have done after arrival in earth.
We arrive in earth from being outside then we enter into it by birth we don't arrive on a flying saucer or a plane from a far away planet so we aren't as much on the planet as in it, in this world not on this world.
Here we are in this life brn to a mother and father with their own amounts of strife.
I see the parents we get, are part of our own design, a design where we are given the chance, to get to our very highest part, not through drugs or any type of addiction orany achievement like gathering goods or winning any war or anything like that, but through tuning in to the essence of creation and walking paths where we do not glorify ourselves at cost to others
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/10/2007 6:40:56 PM
DR TT
You have inspired me to look up a few quotations that have come back into my mind while reading your thoughts
Va de Velden wrote " light is love, love is truth, truth is light"
I hope I got the order right but you get the idea!
Status Anxiety ; is what feeds the class system and is almost brainwashed into Kids through the school system.
Finally some lyrics from a song I wrote to my lover/ partner a few years ago
"We are ancient lovers
we travel through time
Youth in our footsteps
The children of our line--------"
and
"We are both islands
alone but the same----"
Cheers my friend!!
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Dr Terribol
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2/11/2007 4:31:05 PM
Hi again
hi ho silver lining
Like your words there. Yes the conditioning. It is the very element that is warping the direction of life on earth. It is like a form of hypnosis, to hear what sound like empty phrases, like education, education, education, but the effect of the lying and the greed in the world and the overpowering darkness makes that these words though they seem light, like repeating that word education, over and over, as a political mantra stance, gets into peoples' minds, and because we are then the victims of darkness in our grief and despair, we are affected by those empty phrases. It is to be seen when looking at the state of the globe now, the washing away of coastlines and then, so weird, just happens to be that a lot of countries that are already poverty stricken are now in the most immediate danger of being washed away.
I think rock n roll was at its best a way of expressing joy and exposing lies, a way to be elevated out of the numbing mind-set and a way then to see some light, gain insight into our world.
Therefore, I do think that it is true, rock n roll is now about the show itself instead of the show being an expression of something more sunstantial.
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Dr Terribol
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2/11/2007 9:51:51 PM
I think there are no classes
Except working class and no class.
Working class woulsd have to be just about everyone who has to undertake some kind of activity whether just mental activity (meaning not nuts activity but brain movement) or physical labour of some sort, and then no class is like banks, institutions that just get rich on peoples' needs, like banks earn money just because our money is put into their system. They do not have to do a thing, and these days the banks are becoming entirely minimalistic, branches are closin,people are encouraged to do their banking online, thereare onlya few people working in any branch whereas before there were lots and lots of people.
So anyway a bank is A NO CLASSER, all the rest of us unless money falls out of the sky are working class.
But another answer to this question from me could be, it isn't rock n roll becoming middle class it is nearly all music that was very visdible before, on TV on the radio stuff that reached a wide audience music lovers and just appreciaters alike like peoplewho just lie the radio on when they are getting up in the morning, preferred mostly lively happy-go-lucky tunes, not that mant people who, awake in the morning running off for breakfast then work, would want o or be able to listen to jazz or classical stuff but that lively poppy stuff which includes rock n roll, did do the job, here comes the sun or round midnight, what can u listen to while you're brushing your teeth?
I could listen to morning has brroken and I can listen to here comes the night da da da da da here comes the night, then shift a gear upwards and get lively, Van Morrison, so much music for the morning but it's all working class because if it isn't then you might still be in bed, because you don't need to work, like me, a multi-billionaire, yes, I bought a lot of monopoly sets, at least I was that clever, if I couldn't live realistically, I could after all live in a fantasy world.
I give supermarkets in the pouring rain, away to beggars, everyday, like Elvis gave cars to any motel cleaner he bumped into.
In fact I had so much monoploly money I used to use it to sniff make believe cocaine which was just washing powder, yep then I'd burn those notes, and no matter how much I burnt up I couldn't finish my money, and money made money because like that washing powder I sniffed caused my clothes to mix with my sweat and I didn't ever need to wash my clothes again nor take a bath.
I was a hippy gone wrong, welcome nowhere.
When the police pulled me over even though I'd been sniffing that shit all night, I said, I'm clean officer, you'd see their porky noses twitching and shuffling, not unlike the funky chicken, yeah they rolled their eyes thinking why did everything smell of perfume maybe he's hiding bodies in the trunk, they'd pull their revolvers and open the trunk, standing back but then their shock when they opened the suitcases shoved full of 100 dollar monopoly bills, they just couldn't figure it out, it was around this time I too asked myself, is rock n roll becoming middle class, did the drugs eat my brain up or what?
Ah and did I run home ta mommay and dadday? Did I call collect from A T and A and you know the song didn't wish me none well,, crying, foaming washing powder out mah nose. No I joined a religious group after I became washed out, literally washed out, it took the Mississippi River to rinse me out and I was still foaming at mah mouth, eventually I went straight and I never looked back, yeah of course not when the sky as far as I could see was full of foam,
ma ma ran ta the gate, Ah shucks blue eyed boy, you done come home where was you the past 30 years?? Ah sorry mama I was on an extended vacation you might say, and praise the lord, I have found salvation I have been cleansed inside out
I said mah I had enuff of that rock n roll I told ya all about, it done turned middle class
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/12/2007 8:27:11 PM
OK, this after going away and having a cup of tea!
I think I asked the wrong question!
Maybe it should have been / What is normal now? Do we accept todays normal by adding to all the "normal" dialogue going around by duplicating, even extending what is all around (and accepted) or do we bravely go where no one has yet ventured , take risks, get mocked or whatever?
Bringing "class" into the argument has sent Terri onto a downward spiral inhaling soap powder to cleanse his soul?
Do we want to change the way things are done? Are we the cutting edge: or same old , same old, with bells and whistles added.
Show me the money?
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Dr Terribol
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2/13/2007 1:40:21 AM
Yep eating and sniffing the washing powder saves a lot of money, don't need any air freshner in the WC either.
Now, seriously, yes I don't think things should all stay the same, but I don't think they then ought to become worse than they already were.
In 1969 the only thing the BBC played was a few tunes in the hit parade, radio did the same shit as well (except for a few Dj's like onboard Radio Caroline ship and John Peel but then Peel wasn't like on in the prime slots such as early morning) and a lot of what was in the hit parade was determined by the institutions such as the BBC anyhow so then they played a very narrow lot of tunes but if a tune did get in there then they'd play it to death.
I know there are plenty of radio stations now but the mainstream, that which reaches the masses, institutions like the BBC, still are pretty much like this, limited, really.
Whether you like house music and all the sub-genres in it, for instance, I don't think I've hardly ever heard any of it on the BBC.
The big deal is now how musicians are going to continue if they can't make a living from making music.
The pros and cons of everyone bringing stuff out, the advantages and disadvantages of the loss of control of music where now music can in fact be stolen, or rather, not paid for, by illegal downloading online.
Somehow I want to see the cream of music I don't want to see absolutely everyone who can get hold of a mic, maybe entirely talentless, pretending to be an artist.
But there is no way to control it, so I think all it means is, it is harder or more work now, shifting and shuffling and separating the corn from the chaff!
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