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Holo Lukaloa
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2/6/2008 7:32:49 PM
What qualities do you look for in a President?
I was just thinking about this because it looks like our choice is going to be McCain and either Obama or Clinton. I don't see McCain as a very smart man. I know a lot of smart people and he just doesn't strike me as smart, there is clearly no great intellect there. Of course, Dubya Bush also is in this category. Don't you think the most powerful man/woman in the world should be smart?
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srm
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2/6/2008 10:24:13 PM
Personally, I'm looking for someone as tall as Abe Lincoln, as photogenic as JFK, and as glib as Ronnie Raygun. I realise that these properties have nothing to do with a person's ability to run a country, but why be any different than the electorate? Yes, I'm being facetious.
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The Man With No Band
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2/6/2008 10:31:29 PM
I'd settle for a President that could use "facetious" in a sentence ... :)
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srm
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2/6/2008 10:41:35 PM
Yeah, but try finding a rhyme for it.
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Stegor
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2/7/2008 7:11:59 AM
Supercalifragilisticexpialidecious
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srm
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2/7/2008 7:15:29 AM
HA!
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/7/2008 11:30:47 AM
It would be handy to have someone, who knows there is a world outside the USA ---------------------------that is not just for testing weapons on! heh!
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Jeff Allen Myers
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2/7/2008 11:50:03 AM
"I know a lot of smart people and he just doesn't strike me as smart, there is clearly no great intellect there"
Wow it is shocking you feel that way! :) Never dreamed what side you would lean. Holo!! Because you know smart people, I guess that makes it true.
For the record, the smartest people I know are complete Social misfits.
If Einstein were on the podium, giving a public speech I don't think he would come off as a mental giant. He was also a notorious philanderer....no,...I don't Believe IQ is a prerequisite of a Great Leader. Some of the most successfull people in the world are of average intelligence. What they do have, is an innate ability to connect with people, able to surround themselves with the best people in a variety of fields, analyze the situation by taking advice..both pro and con.,and have the courage and character to make a decision based on that information...even if the answer goes against popular and emotional beliefs.
Character, Leadership, and Wisdom make a great President in my mind. Wisdom, is far different then intellect. ....Wisdom comes with experience, with success and failure. A high Intelligence quotient does not make one wise, just as the ability to be a great public speaker does not always translate to a great leader.
A great Orator can be a terrible leader, they are not mutually exclusive..
Some of the worst humanity has to offer can, and HAS come at the hands of a great orator who can move the masses, Just keep an open mind........
Good luck to all, may your candidate win...even if its Nobody! :)
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Holo Lukaloa
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2/7/2008 11:57:28 AM
Actually Jeff, many right wing republicans think Hillary is more conservative than McCain. Ann Coulter says she will vote for Hillary even.
I believe it's especially important ~this year~ that we elect a smart president to help pull us out of the gutter Dubya B. threw us into.
Obama is that candidate.
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Jeff Allen Myers
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2/7/2008 12:02:40 PM
It should be interesting...that is for sure. Personally, I am not thrilled with any of them.... .. NOBODY FOR PRESIDENT! :)~
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THE JACK PADDLE COVER BAND
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2/7/2008 12:10:15 PM
I back barack....after all, me did used to sell him cocaine!! Customer loyalty and all that!!
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/7/2008 12:31:05 PM
-----as of today it looks like------- McCain, Clinton or Obama---
so ---who's the Dummass?
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srm
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2/7/2008 12:34:10 PM
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." - Douglas Adams
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Holo Lukaloa
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2/7/2008 12:52:18 PM
I didn't say I was for Hill, Larree. I'm 100% behind Obama but would vote for Hillary over McCain. McCain if you've followed him over the years often comes off like a dullard who is at times indecisive. The Clintons at least are able to handle the economy better. These times call for a true statesmanesque leader though, not business as usual. It doesn't surprise me that you'd back McCain because you have often defended Bush and there will not be much of a change of course from that if McCain gets elected. However I think that is highly unlikely because the majority of this country is against the war and on top of that, he's very likely to say a few very stupid things before the big election day.
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satch
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2/7/2008 12:58:38 PM
"It don't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in!"
I don't remember who said that, but to me, it sums up the state of politics on all sides of the planet! It's a corporate-controlled mess based on consumerism, fear, corruption and greed!
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The CODE
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2/7/2008 1:48:22 PM
Is Ron Paul being ignored in America too???
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The Man With No Band
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2/7/2008 2:11:22 PM
McCain is the only guy qualifed for the job today. Period.
Absolute nonsense ... I'm not thrilled with any of the Candidates but if you were around Arizona enough you'd know that he is smart ... He's smart enough that is to go on vacation when it comes time to making a vote on anything important ... If he doesn't show up for his senate vote then he can't piss anyone off about the way he voted ...
His best "experience" is knowing how to be absentee ... which I guess maybe on 2nd thought DOES make him the best qualified ....
Bwahahahahahah !!!!!!!!!
Ron Paul makes more sense than any of the other Republicans IMO ... and I don't care about "experience" at all ....
"Experience is the common schoolhouse of fools and ill men.- Men of wit and honesty are otherwise instructed."-- Erasmus
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Magnetfisch
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2/7/2008 2:13:04 PM
well, as most of you will now, I am Swiss, so I won't elect any president dirtectly :-) But if I had to, this president should be (most of all) integer, honest and taking climate change seriously.
Btw, one of our ministers (we have 7, it's called the federal counsil), who fulfilled none of these 3 conditions and was quite a far right wing ... was sacked by parliament
here in the mountains, we don't like it when someone becomes too autocratic 8-)
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The Man With No Band
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2/7/2008 2:28:50 PM
Just to further emphasize McCains Voting record..... I went and looked it up so I had facts to back my statement ... this is what I found
John McCain has missed 255 votes (56.7%) during the current Congress....
Almost 57% of all issues voted on ... Mr. Sly ducked out of the voting ... !!!!
Only one Senator missed more ...
Is this the "experience you were speaking of ?
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Spank Momma
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2/7/2008 3:10:10 PM
Alright babys spittin again.
Since the beginning of the human monkey, the smart monkeys always thought they had something above the regular monkeys. The smart monkey was the first to kill a little monkey and eat it when times were tough, there wasn't much fruit, not only did he eat it but he also smacked its half eaten head on the tree to show the other regular monkeys how tough and scarysmart he was (as he chewed the warm brains) The compassionate monkey cringed in fear and shook the tree she was clinging to. The regular monkeys all watched in horror.
Then, one of the regular monkeys who was also hungry but refused the horrors of the smart monkey, stuck a stick in the termite hole and ate them and showed all the other regular monkeys. WE NEED HONESTY AND COMPASSION. Smart monkeys kill.
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qelizabeth
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2/7/2008 3:25:56 PM
Of course that person should be smart. have a platform I mostly agree with, as well as wisdom, the ability to negotiate, leadership, optimism, strength and compassion.
That person most obviously, to me, is
Obama.
For starters, he said eloquently, in 2002 before the war, as a State Senator, exactly what the vast majority of us are saying across party lines, about the Iraq war, today.
link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhpKmQCCwB8
Secondly:
So many people who don't support Obama say, 'He's a great speaker and inspirational and all, but . . .'
One reason he's able to inspire people is because he IS inspiring. And what's so bad about that?
He's got a good platform and good character to back it up.
It's downright silly that his wonderful ability to inspire is being used against him by some.
It reminds me of the pretty girl in school who also happened to be sweet and smart, who people automatically hated, or judged her only by her looks.
Don't hate or discount Obama because he's inspiring.
He's got substance too.
Here's where he stands on the issues and how he's voted:
http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Barack_Obama.htm
Lastly, for you people who dislike EVERYONE.
You are going to get a president whether you like it or not. Might as well vote for the person you hate the least.
Good luck everyone in your decision.
(If anyone in future primary states needs Obama gear, I've got some stickers.)
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The Man With No Band
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2/7/2008 3:33:16 PM
qelizabeth ...Totally agree with you ... but how dare you speak any kind of sense in a political debate ! ... :)
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srm
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2/7/2008 3:47:57 PM
Amen, Sam. Politics is no place for common sense (may Thomas Paine forgive me).
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qelizabeth
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2/7/2008 4:00:44 PM
Nice to know someone agrees. . .
I've got lots more reasons why I think he is the best candidate:
*He's running a great campaign, raising money in a grass roots way, with little or no lobbyists/special interests to answer to later. Hillary just pumped $5 million of her own money into her campaign and accepts hundreds of thousands from lobbyists.
*Statistically, the more time he has with voters, the more inclined they are to vote for him. That's a good sign.
*His two children interact very naturally with him. (I'm a mom and I pay close attention to these things.) He and his wife are mindful of the strains on the family that the campaigning may be having on the family and they are doing their best to minimize the strain. (Michelle, his wife, doesn't spend more than 2 days at a time away from home. If the girls don't want to come out and greet crowds, they are not forced to. Etc.) I have an enormous amount of respect for both of them on this.
*He can take an issue, and make his stance both progressive and conservative, AND make sense at the same time.
For instance, he believes immigrants here illegally should have licenses to drive. He says, they don't come here to drive they come here to WORK. And that's what we should be reforming and looking at. This seems like a progressive stance, but then he says that he also wants them to have licenses because they are then documented, track-able. That's a conservative twist on the same subject.
*I'd like to send him more than anyone else, as my figurehead/diplomat.
*He's not only wise but strategic. My guess is he'd play a mean game of chess.
*He's realistic about Universal Health Care and I believe his plan has a better chance of passing.
I could go on. But I'm getting off topic anyway.
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Jeff Allen Myers
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2/7/2008 4:17:58 PM
The Ability to inspire, and speak eloqently is indeed a strong and admired trait, but its skill alone does not make a great leader.My point is many with the same trait have done great harm to humanity. It is easy to be swayed by a great speaker, ...the best Salespeople have a similar trait!
I never mentioned Obama by name, .....I am just saying keep your mind separate from emotion. I am still learning about the man, and his ability to be a great speaker is down my list. Obama is a very smart man, an excellent politician. As for Platforms? Most are made out of Rubber! Pandering for votes is the lowest of politics. Its very easy to say, I will end the War and bring our soldiers home. What will be left in the Vaccuum?? It's slightly more complicated then that.....
We shall see of Obama, will his character match his words? Is he a Socialist at heart? I don't know, but I am a little weary of all of them...Billiary, McCain, Barack.
Maybe one of them will be a great President, I can only hope. One thing is certain, one of them will be in the Whitehouse next January.
As for experience? Erasemuch has it all wrong...there is no substitute for it...that quote is preposterous Sam!!! :) As for not voting, its a common Political ploy to not get on the record of something that can come back and bite you in the ass...like Hillary's support of the War.
This is a touchy, sensitive, loaded subject! We all have our views, the key is to express them with respect. I mean no disrespect to anyone.
Jeff
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Jeff Allen Myers
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2/7/2008 4:18:05 PM
The Ability to inspire, and speak eloqently is indeed a strong and admired trait, but its skill alone does not make a great leader.My point is many with the same trait have done great harm to humanity. It is easy to be swayed by a great speaker, ...the best Salespeople have a similar trait!
I never mentioned Obama by name, .....I am just saying keep your mind separate from emotion. I am still learning about the man, and his ability to be a great speaker is down my list. Obama is a very smart man, an excellent politician. As for Platforms? Most are made out of Rubber! Pandering for votes is the lowest of politics. Its very easy to say, I will end the War and bring our soldiers home. What will be left in the Vaccuum?? It's slightly more complicated then that.....
We shall see of Obama, will his character match his words? Is he a Socialist at heart? I don't know, but I am a little weary of all of them...Billiary, McCain, Barack.
Maybe one of them will be a great President, I can only hope. One thing is certain, one of them will be in the Whitehouse next January.
As for experience? Erasemuch has it all wrong...there is no substitute for it...that quote is preposterous Sam!!! :) As for not voting, its a common Political ploy to not get on the record of something that can come back and bite you in the ass...like Hillary's support of the War.
This is a touchy, sensitive, loaded subject! We all have our views, the key is to express them with respect. I mean no disrespect to anyone.
Jeff
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Jeff Allen Myers
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2/7/2008 4:19:03 PM
sorry for the double post..I hit enter twice...
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qelizabeth
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2/7/2008 4:47:53 PM
I agree with you on how very complicated the situation in Iraq is. I try to understand, talking to friends in the military, etc, but war just isn't my specialty. I haven't heard any candidate, or any person actually, who has a direct answer for getting out of the mess we put ourselves in.
Obama calls getting out 'our last best hope.' and I have to agree, if you compare it to staying there indefinitely.
I am sick of spending billions of our money on that war, and losing lives of our children and yes, innocent Iraqis too. I'm also sick of the vets who come back only to be mistreated. It's bullshit.
Obama seems to understand that it's not simple. He talks about the inevitability of the factions there splintering off, between the kurds, shias, sunniis, (sorry about my spelling here.)
He's done the math on the war spending
The effects of our long term comittment.
He's discussing the rebuilding of Iraq.
The healing of our vets.
He's not perfect and didn't promise to be, but it sounds pretty good to me.
I totally agree that platforms are RUBBER. That's why I always say to be cautious in choosing a candidate by one of those online surveys. Platforms change. People don't. Choosing should consider both.
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qelizabeth
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2/7/2008 4:53:52 PM
All this said, I have to admit I'm tired of following the political races this week, and I'm having a good time watching The Daily Show with Jon Stewart making fun of the whole thing!
'Night night.
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The Man With No Band
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2/7/2008 5:09:19 PM
Jeff ... I do have to disagree with you about experience ....
Experience said Columbus would sail off the edge of the earth ...
Experience said man could not fly ....
Experience said no man could run a four minute mile ...
It takes somebody who dares to defy experience to come up with new ideas, new music, new ways of doing things ...
All of the greatest Thinkers and Musicians and Artist and Leaders went against the grain of experience ....
That is why we no longer live in caves .....
and it's not just experience ... It has to be good experience .... Hillary boast about her 35 years of experience ... What experience ... (living off the American Public for 35 years) ?
McCain has went along with the status quo for years and as I stated before his Voting record shows that he doesn't care enough about the issues to even vote on most of them... and he had that voting record long before the congress became Democrotic ...
It's like when a Veteran ball player has outlived his tenure .... Give it up ... Let's get the Rookie in there that has the balls to try something new and get me excited about the future of our team (or country) ... that's not voting on emotion, that's voting on improving the stagnation and the doom and gloom ...
The current thinking about keeping the citizen's safe are IMO truly deterring our country from doing anything positive ... our attention needs to come home ... We have an infrastructure here that is eroding away ...
The aftermath of pulling out of Iraq ? ... do you honestly believe that if we waited one hundred years to pull out, that that same aftermath will not occur ?
Get real .....
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The Man With No Band
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2/7/2008 5:32:51 PM
Well ... I'm not afraid of the boogie man myself ...
....and your "experienced" leaders haven't dealt very well with the situation so far ...
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qelizabeth
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2/7/2008 5:46:42 PM
By psycho who did you mean? Hillary? McCain?
I have to agree with Man With No Band (again) -- sounds like a fear-based stance to me too.
I don't want a psycho. I want a HAWK who will step in when needed but not in a fearful, knee-jerk, reactionary way when it's not smart (economically or politically) to do so.
I think Obama is the closest thing to what I'm looking for.
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LyinDan
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2/7/2008 6:06:29 PM
psychos start wars, larree.
Intelligent people figure out how to better their country.
There's a difference between the two philosophies.
Believe it or not.
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Jeff Allen Myers
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2/7/2008 8:14:13 PM
Sam,
You have a quite different and dark definition of "experience" ....You seem to want to put a limit on it.
It was Columbus experience that proved the World was round, It was the Wright Brothers experience of trial and error...Over and Over that finally got the Plane off the ground at Kitty Hawk, they took this valuable experience and finally got it right.
You are an experienced Bike rider, did you get on the highway with cars doing eighty right away? Or did experience teach you how to handle the Bike...
I cannot do my Job without experience, In fact I was only hired because I have it.
With Experience comes Knowledge and skill, I don't understand how you can paint it in a negative light. ...It was not experience that taught them the world was flat...It was ignorance; Colombus' experience proved them wrong.
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Jeff Allen Myers
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2/7/2008 8:37:45 PM
As for Iraq, I agree we should get out, but it there has to be an exit strategy, ...we cannot just cut and run.
I never said anything about a Thousand years, I want out as much as anybody...I am also a realist , aware of whats at stake, and what can happen if the U.S pulls out without a plan. You cannot simply say, "I will bring our Boys home...Or I will get them home in 60 days". That makes for great Political rhetoric, but its not realistic.
Its a terrible situation, I believe it was never thought through..... It seems obvious that factions at war for thousands of years could never peacefully coexist. Bush's "Mission Accomplished" showed how short sighted and Ignorant he and his advisors were.
I saw a video today of Children practicing Kidnapping... posing with masks and weapons.Make no mistake, the stakes are much higher then just IRAQ. You cannot reason with extremists, you cannot try to talk to them...engage them in conversation. I have read this is what Obama wants to do (this is what I read, I hope it is not true), history is full of people trying to appease their enemies with tragic results. Chamberlin's 'Peace in our time" with Hitler comes to mind......North Korea...Iran...Al Queda..They will never be Friends.
I know it seems I lean to one side, I assure you I do not....I just want something to make sense in this crazy world,I want to make sure things are heading in the right direction, and our collective futures are safe and prosperous.... from what I see I am not relieved. . The older I get the more I agree "Ignorance is Bliss" Then, You don't have to think and worry...
I still have hope, It's probably hormonal :) ..sorry for the Rant...
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Slimdog Productions
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2/7/2008 8:54:06 PM
Jeff, Columbus didn't get the experience until he actually sailed and proved the world was round. He got the experience because he took that first step and went out there when others said that he would fall off the face of the Earth and be eaten by monsters(kinda similar to what people are saying about Obama). I understood where Sam was coming from with his statement. Sometimes experience doesn't mean jack about the quality of work that will be done.
Slimdog
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Jeff Allen Myers
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2/7/2008 9:02:36 PM
AAhh.... but did Columbus have experience sailing ships? Or did he just get on the boat for the first time?
I understand the Point Sam was making, we are just looking at the word differently.....
I understand what you are saying too....you need courage to go against the norm. Maybe Obama is the one to do it. Washington is indeed broke...
I hear ya......
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Slimdog Productions
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2/7/2008 9:07:14 PM
Columbus had experience sailing ships, BUT no one in recorded history at that time had sailed around the world...
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The Man With No Band
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2/7/2008 10:15:54 PM
O.K. ... where do I begin ... I guess you misunderstood my rant about experience ... so I'll try a different approach ... I want to start by saying I was really disturbed that in another thread someone said they would not vote for who they wanted to, but rather who they thought would win in their party ... the political system in this country has gotten to the point that experience tells people they can't even vote for who they truly want to vote for ... and that same person said that they believed they should probably vote for someone that had more experience in world affairs anyway ...
Everyday things change ... the world is a much different place today than yesterday and tomorrow it will be different than it is today ... I want people in charge that understand that ... I want people in charge that truly want to make things better, both here and abroad ... I want people who don't say "well experience has taught us that this won't work" .. but rather, if we use our collective skills and our brains and our resources, we can do things that were always thought to be impossible before ... You may call that naive thinking but I believe it ... If you call that naive, then it is you that are on the negative side of things ... not me.
If we keep on following the experience of those that have been running this country for the last 50 years, we are gonna be in deep doo-doo ... Can not you see that our debt is running rampantly out of control ? ... Can not you see that our educational system needs a major overhaul ? ... Can not you see that becoming a country that produces very little in the way of goods anymore, is a detriment to all of us ? ... Can not you see more and more countries losing faith and confidence in us everyday ?
One man can't change that ... but one man (or woman) can start that change ... Yes experience can be a good thing ... it can teach us that what we have been doing is going down the wrong road by listening to those who proclaim to be experienced !
... and if someone comes back with "I don't care as long as I'm safe from the Bomb" I swear I'm gonna scream ... (smiling as he types) ...
Hell nature herself (or God if you believe in that sort of thing) could take one big swipe and wipe us all from the face of the earth anyway ...
What good is your life if you are constantly worried about what "might" happen ... Hell it could happen any day, from any country, at anytime !
If you allow your whole infrastructure to collapse, why not just let the bomb do it for you ...?
Let's get positive and start doing things to help mankind ...
Think how much good we could do with all the money that we spend on Wars and Corruption and Waste, ... War is a negative thing that Zaps the life from everything ... Your mind can only hold so much, if you are concentrating on fear and war and other mights, you are using up space that could be filling up with positive ways to do some good and make a difference ...
Each and every day when we wake up it is a brand new day ... Nothing that happened yesterday can be changed ... Nothing that happened yesterday is the same today ... We can choose what we are going to do today ... yesterdays experience was only good experience, for what we did yesterday...
Peace Out
Sam
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Jeff Allen Myers
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2/7/2008 10:45:38 PM
"Can not you see that our debt is running rampantly out of control ? ... Can not you see that our educational system needs a major overhaul ? ... Can not you see that becoming a country that produces very little in the way of goods anymore, is a detriment to all of us ? " Yes I can plainly see all of that Sam..... plenty of things to worry about don't ya think?? :) My worry is not debilitating and I don't sit around in my PJ'S waiting for the sky to fall...I have a one year old Son, thoughts of the future have greater meaning since becoming a Dad. I do cherish the present, and appreciate Life.
I will give all three candidates the benefit of the doubt to address the things you mention...
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qelizabeth
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2/8/2008 5:30:01 AM
Laree, I actually have to say that though it would appear my politics differ greatly from yours, we meet at the other side of the circle.
Barack Obama publically asked the same question: where did she get the money?
He has made public his tax returns, so people can see. He believes public officials should disclose this as accountability to the people.
I respect him for that, though I also respect people who want their privacy. It's a tough one.
He didn't say she should do the same but he seems to have called her on it.
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Hop On Pop
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2/8/2008 5:32:30 AM
I agree with you that we are at war, Larree.
But we didn't need to be.
Yes, we were attacked, but going into Iraq (where there was no immediate threat) only served to bolster our enemy; to renew their resolve. We proved to them that we are, in fact, the imperialists that they thought we were. And now, the problem is much worse than it would have been.
That said, we are in a mess and simply pulling out like a teenager on prom night would NOT be the ideal solution. But we do need a GOALS-BASED timetable for bringing our soldiers home, while keeping the Middle East as stable as possible. (Please... they are not "troops", they are humans - soldiers. Let's not dehumanize them.)
What you are overlooking is what Dubbya lacked, which is extraordinary diplomaic skills.
Therefore, we need a leader who HAS those extraordinary diplomatic skills... to help at least make some progress in unsticking an incredibly complex situation in the Middle East. And also, to diffuse some of the hatred harbored against the USA.
That is why I am leaning toward Obama. He appears to have those skills. McCain is a smart man, to be sure. And I do respect the hell out of him, and the sacrifices that he has made for this country. But he is just too quick on the trigger to make me comfortable with him in the Oval Office. War should be a last resort, not a first option.
And also, stop with the name-calling. It's purile and unbecoming of people of intelligence, like you, Larry. Reeks of those right-wing radio morons. (Not calling them names, just stating a fact, here.)
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Jeff Allen Myers
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2/8/2008 6:19:49 AM
McCain does not have a Prayer in a Debate against Obama, McCain will seek to limit the amount of time spent face to face on T.V... Obama is just too eloquent, and McCain does not have the Voice, Look, or delivery. Unfortunately, ever since Television became a factor in elections it has mattered. FDR may not be electable today, Eisenhower, Truman, .... Look at Dole...Gore........
John Kennedy won the election the minute he faced off against Nixon in 1960. The T.V Cameras Loved the man, and he was a great Orator.Obama has the best chance to beat McCain because of his ability to move people, Hillary on the other hand may turn voters off. I don't trust her...when she teared up for the cameras before the last two crucial primaries, it seemed calculating and pathetic.
As for the $$$$, You cannot get elected President without millions being funneled into the campaign. Make no mistake, the candidates are beholden to these donors...and Corporations play both sides. How can you expect to get the best President , with the best qualities when the number one factor seems to be Money!! This is a huge problem, and a major reason change is so difficult.
Ol Bill Clinton now makes over $100,000 every time he opens his mouth at sponsored events. I don't know the rules`about using your Spouses money. I do know this, The Salary of a Politician alone is not enough to make a Multi-millionaire...and from what I have seen, Hillary has been a Wife and Politician.
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Jeff Allen Myers
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2/8/2008 6:28:14 AM
"Her 1996 book It Takes a Village and Other Lessons Children Teach Us was a best seller, and she received a Grammy Award for her recording of it"
Aww she got some money with the book, as I recall she got a big fat advance, .... To be fair, She practiced Law in the early years and no doubt made her own money. With the connections she now has, Money will never be a problem.
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