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Holo Lukaloa
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3/19/2008 11:50:18 PM
Dick Cheney doesn't care how Americans feel about war. McCain confused about Shiites and Sunis. Hillary visits Mich. out of desperation.
When asked on a major newsshow interview what he thinks about the fact that 2/3rds of all Americans are against the war, Dick Cheney replied "So?"
McCain makes a fool of himself every day of the week. I think it would be truly scary if he became president but I don't think that's possible. Everyone paying attention will notice by then that he's a lost puppy.
Hillary who stoops lower with every week of the campaign called Obama "unAmerican" for not asserting himself about new primaries in Michigan and Florida. Thing is, it was the Michigan congressional factions that could not even get a plan to the floor to vote on so Obama had nothing to do with that issue. In Florida, they're bumbling terribly as usual, it seems even more hopeless to try a do-over vote there. They proposed a 50/50 split in delegates but Hillary's people aren't happy with that because she won more in a primary they weren't allowed to campaign in.
Today Obama gives a big speech on war and the economy. Something that hasn't been discussed nearly enough. I think it will make major waves.
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The Man With No Band
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3/20/2008 12:17:22 AM
Going back to your last thread .....
It never ceases to amaze me how well the propaganda machine works and how gullible people are ... You'd think by now people would recognize a smokescreen, when it not only hits them in the face but when it surrounds and smothers everything in site ....
People get up in arms over their tax dollars being spent on things like Welfare, School funding, prison reform, home mortgage bailouts etc. etc. ... which is nothing but a very well executed smokescreen to keep the American people pitted against each other and keep their small minds from thinking about who is really screwing them...
You add all those things together and more of your tax dollars are being sneakily diverted into the elites pockets in a month, than are spent on these programs in 10 years ...
Millions wasted each and every year ... Trillions of dollars spent needlessly overseas ...
You talk about irresponsible Homeowners ? ... What about irresponsible Government !!!!!!!!!!!!!! .... and yet a large percentage of Americans are so caught up in the smokescreen that they keep giving a blank check to the Elite ...
Shhhhhhhheeeeeeeeesh
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3/20/2008 12:24:27 AM
Divide and conquer. An oldy but a goody.
( I'm following you Sam... )
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The Man With No Band
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3/20/2008 12:38:55 AM
oh yeah ... I was supposed to tie this in to this post ....
Of course Dick Cheney says SO !
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Jeff Allen Myers
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3/20/2008 12:58:59 AM
"McCain makes a fool of himself every day of the week. I think it would be truly scary if he became president but I don't think that's possible. Everyone paying attention will notice by then that he's a lost puppy"
Holo thats a matter of perception, your perception. Probably about 50% of the United States will agree with you, the other will not...and no friend, the other half are not all idiots.... statistics don't work that way. :)
Here is an interesting Clip;
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23710761#23710761
The lost Puppy is pretty Lucid in this interview on your Favorite website Holo...of course you will probably not sit through it because your preconceived notion will no doubt shade any objective view... I have the same reaction when I listen to Hillary, I can't get past my dislike of her,....I can be honest about that. She is no doubt a brilliant Woman, but I can't stand listening to her.
Obama? I have much respect for the man..I think he would represent the United States well, Will he be a great President? I don't know....nobody knows....I still have legitimate questions. McCain, I have questions there too...Plenty of them.
I watched Obama's entire speech, as well as this clip of McCains Interview from the link above.. He addresses where he Misspoke on the extremists from Iran, ...and sincerely laughs at the notion he does not know the difference between Shiites and Sunnies....it's a telling reaction to the question.
I mentioned Obamas problem with his Pastor weeks ago if you recall...sadly I think it may bring down is campaign...no matter how eloquent his speech. The clips of Rev Wright are pretty destructive sound bites, and its a shame he is associated with him, it will have a political effect...and they will be used against him in the months to come.
I am a registered Independent...I am sitting back and watching the show, I will make up my mind probably a week before the election, it is still too early....when I do decide My Vote is Personal...just wanted to get that out there.....
What we are seeing now is down and dirty politics...there are calculated moves on all sides. I will not speak in absolutes , there are always two sides to an issue....always.
I hope we get a Great President...Period. We are living in very challenging times...the stakes are huge.
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Larry Migliore
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3/20/2008 6:59:00 AM
I thought this was an indie music artist site. These political diatribes are well suited elsewhere. I believe that most artists try to escape the current political climate and all the non stop battering we receive in the media every single day, by coming here and reading about the great music topics posted here. These political topics are like a very cold wet blanket thrown over me and maybe others. Let's talk about making music.
Not saying anything about free speech mind you, but I think these political topics should be posted somewhere else. Just an observation.
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satch
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3/20/2008 7:19:08 AM
Totally disagree Larry - I feel strongly that the best artists are those who comment on the times we live in through the message of their music, and in that context, political discourse is very relevant!
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Larry Migliore
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3/20/2008 7:40:01 AM
Satch and Larree
I guess if we didn't have protest songs, music in general would be kind of boring. I believe in protest. I believe there is an eternal place for it in this world. The USA was founded on those principles, founded by the oppressed. But crap! It appears that this
political stuff is dominating the comments section!
And Larry please don't tell me to listen to Dylan or Woody or Arlo or CSNY etc...I grew up with this music.
All I'm saying is give it a rest, I can't even watch TV because it's so dominated by politics that it's nauseating !
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Larry Migliore
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3/20/2008 7:42:59 AM
Larree:
You left out Richie Havens
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Larry Migliore
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3/20/2008 7:48:13 AM
Dude
Then please don't tell me to listen to music you believe I know nothing about.
Here Larree a bit of protest for ya!
What if politicians were all good guys
Oh Lord don’t we wish they were
We would not be so dependent
On courts of laws that make us all feel like defendants sometimes
If we want freedom we’ve got to amend it
On our way down
There’s nobody left to crown
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Larry Migliore
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3/20/2008 7:57:11 AM
You are harsh Larree and very rude. Especially when I was stating an opinion. I feel very sorry for you that you need to resort to name calling.
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Larry Migliore
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3/20/2008 8:00:43 AM
Nice Larr
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Larry Migliore
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3/20/2008 8:03:34 AM
You're a real gentleman. You can certainly have you thread back, sorry.
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LyinDan
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3/20/2008 8:13:11 AM
Political discussions get a lot of posts and readers because a lot of people are interested in them. Larree is correct, Larry - if one doesn't like to read them here, then simply don't. There are plenty of music topics here, too. I skim over the things that bore me here, it's not hard. Still, of course you are correct in voicing your boredom. It's all good.
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Larry Migliore
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3/20/2008 8:19:02 AM
Lyin Dan:
Point well taken and spoken like a true gentleman.
Thanks
Larry
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LyinDan
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3/20/2008 8:22:48 AM
Um, yeah, that's what I'm known for, Larry. Ahahaha.
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Larry Migliore
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3/20/2008 8:29:41 AM
Okay Larree. You can have all your toys back now. The bad man is leaving the thread.
Please though, stop the name calling, it's quite childish, offensive and unprofessional of you.
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Larry Migliore
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3/20/2008 8:49:17 AM
Look. Even if I was right, wrong or indifferent. I was stating my opinion. You on the other hand have to resort to being rude, the great politically and social conscious musician who has written some nice songs, has the nerve to stifle anyone's opinion? You appear very hypocritical by doing so.
Now, this is my opinion of you and if you want to continue using profanity at will, be my guest. I won't be on this thread to encroach on your spotlight any further.
Now I've accepted responsibility for my opinion and yes someone did pee in my cornflakes this morning and I may be a bit reactionary too, but I've never resorted to name calling especially to someone I don't know personally .
Now I will exit gracefully Larree. I wish you good luck in your music.
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Holo Lukaloa
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3/20/2008 9:47:06 AM
Larry,
While I obviously disagree with you about the place politics should have in a site of dynaminc artists, I also felt a little empathy for your treatment by Larree here, who I was told yesterday by another pipeline poster is not frowned upon for his namecalling because he is 'just Larree'.
Jeff,
I don't see how you can view McCain as anything but the same as we've endured the last 7 years.
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Jeff Allen Myers
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3/20/2008 10:38:48 AM
McCain is not Bush, there is a reason the Conservative Right is not thrilled with his nomination. He is extremely Moderate in some of his positions. As for Iraq, his "we will be there for a hundred years" was blown out of proportion, we still have troops in Germany, South Korea..... I hate the Iraw war,but I am a realist...we need a plan to deal with it, simply saying you will bring the troops home is not responsible, the blak hoole that will be filled will be disaterous to the U.S. and the World...
The Mess needs cleaned upm we cannot just walk out and shut the door.
Don;t get me wrong, I am not thrilled with McCain....but I do think he is not being represented fairly...nor is Obama.
I agree and disagree with issues that are supported by both parties, I am left to sift through as much information as possible. I first allegiance lies with my Family, all of my decisions are made with them in mind. I will have to trust my instincts and Intellect, and then hope whoever is elected does well by us all.
I honestly think the best person for the Job is out there, and has decided against ever running for President. It is an intensly hard, and stressful responsibility to bare.
You also have to have a stomach for Politics, I am sure extremely intelligent, strong, ethical Men and Women are out there who do not have a desire to play the game. Instead, they influence those around them everyday, and in turn the affect change in an extremely positive way. Obama does seem to be different,and McCain is an entrenched Politician... I will keep an Open mind.
We need a dialog for the issues that effect us all, I believe there are extremly gifted and intelligent people on this site. Through their creativity and ability to communicate through music, I think change is still possible. We should continue to discuss these issues, but for our message to be effective we must all keep an open mind and respect everyone that participates. It's ok to attack the message if you don't agree, but please don't attack the individual person delivering it.
If I have done that in the past, I pledge never to do it again.....
Jeff
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The Man With No Band
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3/20/2008 11:06:30 AM
"we need a plan to deal with it, simply saying you will bring the troops home is not responsible, the blak hoole that will be filled will be disaterous to the U.S. and the World..."
Says Who ? .... Disastrous is 4,000 dead young American men... A couple thousand Dead coalition forces ... thousands of dead Iraqi's including women and children .... Hundreds of thousands of refugees ... Billions of dollars that could be spent doing something good for the world ....
The 100 year thing is not blown way out of proportion .... People like McCain and Bush love war ... they love holding the "I'm better than you" attitude to the world and saying that everyone should think like us ...
Well I say they are FAKE hypocrital pussies .... Why don't they go invade China, that does just as bad of things to their people as Saddam Hussein did ?
I'll tell ya why ... two reasons ..
One ... They owe China way, way too much money ...
Two ... China would kick our ass to hell and back ....
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SqurlyMurly
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3/20/2008 11:13:15 AM
You go Sam! I saw Bruce Lee kick our American asses! : )
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Jo Ellen
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3/20/2008 11:20:49 AM
money & power,
money & power...
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Jeff Allen Myers
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3/20/2008 11:32:04 AM
Well Sam, to answer the "says who" question....I guess Me :) , I am sure I can go find plenty of other names of people smarter then me with opinions and scenarios of what will fill the vacuum. I am sure a lot of money has been spent on analysis of what will happen. I am just using what little common sense I have in coming to the conclusion. I am not supporting the war, but the fact is we are there...and yes thousands of good men and women have been lost. I apolgize for not wanting those Lives lost in vain, I would love for our Men and Women to come home, I am sorry for thinking it is just not as simple as saying " bring them home in sixty days"
As for McCain Loving war? He has certainly lived ad suffered because of War...
I will not make the statement, I don't believe it. Just me...
China? Hell yes! They would destroy The U.S....in a conventional land war., It is Just too large a country with too many People! I pray we never go to war with China...it will not be fought on the ground and the world would be devastated. I am not worried about them, they Love us...they are getting our Jobs and Money!
Anyway, I respect your views Sam...I don't agree with a few here and there...but I respect you and your point of view. :) Hope we can always be friends! :)
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The Man With No Band
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3/20/2008 11:55:42 AM
Hope we can always be friends! :)
Jeff I respect you're views too ! .... Hell if everybody agreed with me we'd all be layin' around in some grass covered Utopia playin' music makin' love and passin' the pipe .... and that wouldn't leave anybody to do the important stuff ... :)
.....and of coarse we will always be friends !
.... and of course your music will always KICK ASS !
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Jeff Allen Myers
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3/20/2008 11:59:25 AM
Thanks Sam :) Here is something that puts our conversations in perspective..
MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- A woman sunbathing on a boat died after a stingray leaped from the water off the Florida Keys on Thursday and struck her, officials said.
"It's just as freakish of an accident as I have heard," said Jorge Pino of Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. "The chances of this occurring are so remote that most of us are completely astonished that this happened."
Now aint that a Bitch? When its your time to go.... geez, all of us just need to worry about getting through the day :)
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The Man With No Band
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3/20/2008 12:21:34 PM
Jeff ... now that's a bitch !
Larree
I absolutely do NOT believe that Bush or McCain love war!
...and that is your prerogative Larree .... I think otherwise .... They are power lovers to me and war makes them feel important ... it's disgusting in my eyes ...
McCain was no more a war hero than a homeless Vet I see living under a bridge a couple miles from where I stay ... He married into Money and now gets a considerable amount of money from the sale of Alcohol ... (Which by the way is the leading cause of most of America's ills) ... and I'm no tee totaler ... but getting up on a pedestal and saying you are a great man, that believes in this country, yet distributing a product that is detrimental to that country is a bit hypocritical to me ....
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Jeff Allen Myers
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3/20/2008 1:08:56 PM
"McCain was no more a war hero than a homeless Vet I see living under a bridge a couple miles from where I stay "
Sam, those unfortunate souls can still be war heroes, their past cannot be diminshed by their present plight. Although a terrible, worthless war...many served their country proudly, and yes many did heroic things. I admire and respect everyone that served.
As for McCain,His Father and Grandfather were Admirals in the Navy. I am sure their influence could have secured him a comfortable position out of Harms way.
He chose to become a fighter pilot and was shot down over Vietnam. The ensuing years had to be torture. I respect the man period, his politics are a separate issue for me. His wife is a successful Busininess woman...yes her company is a Beer distributor. Last I checked that was legal in America, I understand your point, Alcohol has ruined many lives. However, I would rather his wife have a strong Business background then be a lawyer or hack politician.
Anyway, one thing we can all agree on.......Obama,McCain or Hillary will be our next President,....
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SqurlyMurly
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3/20/2008 1:31:24 PM
check this out.
http://www.610wip.com/pages/1134282.php#
Look to the right under PODCASTS and click on the Angelo Cataldi with Barrack Obama.
Then click on Howard Eskin On-Air Right Now.
Very interesting! Just what is a "typical white person"? What if he said typical Jewish person or typical black person?
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The Man With No Band
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3/20/2008 2:04:06 PM
Muriel ... I will check that out..
Jeff ... I didn't state that clear enough ... I was in no way belittling that Vet under the Bridge ... my point is he Is a hero, just as much as McCain ... the difference is he doesn't spout about it and he doesn't get applauded for it ...
War is a nasty thing ... and as long as military minded people are in charge war will never go away ...
The real heroes in war time are the mothers and wives and husbands who loose their loved ones for some stupid war ... the guy down the street, that stops in and checks on them and lends a helping hand ... the people that have the balls to step up and protest against stupid war ...
McCain never would have had to gone through his ordeal if we hadn't been engaged in a Stupid war in Nam ... My Uncle would probably still be alive today if we hadn't been engaged in a Stupid war in Korea ... My Daughter would still have a husband and my Grandson would still have a father if we weren't engaged in this Stupid war in Iraq ...
and more importantly my Grandkids and your Son and all the other Children of the world are gonna grow up ... Do you want to see them die in Stupid wars ?
War is and never will be the answer ... how many wars do people have to see to understand that ? Military minded leaders are what keeps wars going ... they actually believe war is a necessity ... that is B.S.!!!!!!!
How would you feel if your Son were 18 today and told to report to Iraq ?
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The CODE
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3/20/2008 2:11:27 PM
Dick don't give a Shit!!!
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Steve Ison
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3/20/2008 4:04:35 PM
Nice one Sam...
You always seem like the refreshing voice of sanity in this kinda thread...
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Holo Lukaloa
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3/20/2008 4:12:06 PM
SqurlyMurly,
Obama is half white. He's talking about his own grandmother there. I'm white and I know exactly what he's talking about. Typical doesn't mean everybody, it means most. Most white people do have some kind of underlying racial attitude. It is typical.
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SqurlyMurly
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3/20/2008 5:16:44 PM
Holo, please don't try to be condescending. I listened to the interview and I know perfectly well who he was talking about. Obama, like a few other politicians, is not completely free of mistakes. His choice of phrasing wasn't exactly politically correct. He could have easily have said that his granny was a woman from an era of racial unrest.
"Most white people do have some kind of underlying racial attitude. It is typical."
So Holo, now its only white people that have racist attitudes? Give me a break. Racism has been alive since the beginning of time and has known no boundaries of color or creed. Just what is going in the rest of the world? You think they're killing their own countrymen and raping their women & children for no reason? Its racism in its ugliest, most vile form.
Would you say I'm typical, or my grand-niece is a typical little white person? That is what he implied. He generalized. I just don't get it.
I'm not trying to argue here, but you seem to continually bestow Obama with a certain kind of Heavenly messenger, when in fact, he can say dumb things as well the others at times.
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Bob Elliott
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3/20/2008 5:59:05 PM
I'm a bit sad now about how things seem likely to go for Obama, because I believe he is an unusually great statesman and would be a very good leader for the nation. I mean I believe in him more than any other I've ever had a chance to vote for.
But I knew when I saw the Reverend Wright videos that he was going to have some serious trouble now. All the other stuff they threw at him he handled so well that it just made him look even more capable, even-tempered and real.
His speech dealing with this issue showed that to an even greater degree, but the problem is with this issue, Obama is no longer the major controlling factor. My feeling was there may not be a thing he can do or say that will overcome the trouble this is giving him.
And it makes me sad, because he is the right one.
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Holo Lukaloa
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3/20/2008 6:08:26 PM
"So Holo, now its only white people that have racist attitudes? Give me a break."
Where do you get that from what I said? I think it's really bad on both sides. This also extends to other races.
I do believe there is a deliberate, disgusting effort to try to paint Obama by his associations as some kind of a racist and far less scrutiny on the other candidates which have used the racial hate of "typical" Americans to attempt to undermine Obama's candidacy.
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LyinDan
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3/20/2008 6:14:42 PM
Typical people of all races do have some racist attitudes...I have them myself. Typical people may not be able to surmount them.
Besides that, what Holo said.
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LyinDan
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3/20/2008 6:34:09 PM
Larree, you dumbass, go suck an egg. :O
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Holo Lukaloa
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3/20/2008 6:44:05 PM
"Dude. You look for the worst in everybody."
Let me take a second and quote you from yesterday, Lawrence.
"I can't vote for this guy. This guy is is a bigger con artist than Billary could ever be!"
"A master manipulator of words!"
You find fault in Obama's articulation. You're the one who looks for the worst.
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LyinDan
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3/20/2008 6:50:48 PM
I apologize.
~~O~~
>OO<
....O....
..OIO..
.O..O.
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SqurlyMurly
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3/20/2008 7:40:29 PM
"I do believe there is a deliberate, disgusting effort to try to paint Obama by his associations as some kind of a racist and far less scrutiny on the other candidates which have used the racial hate of "typical" Americans to attempt to undermine Obama's candidacy."
I've always heard that one is judged by the company one keeps.
"I do believe there is a deliberate, disgusting effort to try to paint Obama by his associations as some kind of a racist..."
He made that blurb all by himself. Was his statement a slip of the tongue...or a Freudian slip? "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?" : )
"Barack Obama said specifically that he didn't believe his grandmother harbored any racial animosity, but that her fears were understandable and typical of those often shared by her generation," said Obama's PA spokesman Sean Smith, who added that Grandma is 86-years-old. He might have meant that specifically, but that isn't what he said, especially as he spoke of his grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, in the present tense." http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillygossip/Obama_on_WIP_My_grandmothers_a_typical_white_person.html
Due to Obama's "typical white person" statement, would it be fair for me to say that he is your typical Muslim? And I don't mean that in a narrow minded way. But does it sound a bit racist , given his father was Muslim?
Discussion is good for the soul and the opening of the mind is educational. There is still much time to draw your political conclusions and much can be said, and happen, in the remaining few months.
I'm going Indie all the way. Now where's that Ron Paul?
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Holo Lukaloa
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3/21/2008 1:37:21 PM
If you think Obama is a muslim you obviously have issues far deeper than I could hope to persuade you otherwise about.
The people who interviewed Obama on that sportstalk station thought there was absolutely nothing wrong with his statement about a typical white person. I don't either. The typical white person has issues with blacks. The typical black person has issues with whites. Anybody using that as some sort of huge negative for Obama is grasping at straws.
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SqurlyMurly
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3/21/2008 2:33:08 PM
Why do you continually try to twist words? All I said was ..."would it be fair for me to say that he is your typical Muslim? And I don't mean that in a narrow minded way. But does it sound a bit racist , given his father was Muslim? "
You obviously missed the point seeing how you're so wrapped up in Obama's mystique! I haven't had that kind of enthusiasm since I was 12, with The Beatles.
Get a grip. While Obama is an extraordinary individual, he is not without faults of his own and with every post you seem to exhalt his candidacy as if he were the Great Messiah. Truth is, at this point in time, it will take a miracle to get the USA out of the turmoil it has been cast into at home and abroad. However, it is not going to be Obama, or any one man/woman that blesses us with that miracle; not in my opinion.
I iterate, don't you think that he could have chosen a better word within his phrase? You know, like "typical racist"? "typical woman"?
Just because his white grandmother was racist does that mean ALL whites are racist? Just because Obama's father was a Muslim, does that mean Barrack is?
You berate McCain and Hillary for the short-comings but when Obama makes a boo-boo, you want to kiss it and make it go away.
I think you better go back and listen to Howard Eskin's broadcast. Obviously, once again, you either read or heard what you wanted to hear.
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SqurlyMurly
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3/21/2008 2:42:00 PM
FYI Holo, WIP Radio 610 is still getting calls about it today; both good and bad.
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Holo Lukaloa
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3/22/2008 9:54:48 AM
I'm sorry but even bringing up Obama in the context of being a Muslim is to cater to the most malevolent of internet rumormill. It resembles in no way his statement about his grandmother being a typical white person.
I'm not the only one who is enthusiastic about Obama. Why don't you go to one of his rallies and preach to the tens of thousands of Americans who show up at his events who feel the same way as I do?
Could he have had a better choice of words? Sure he could've said something that didn't give the Fox News propaganda mill something else to hype up beyond the reality of it. His words were truthful though. Racial apprehension is typical. Did you see that a Fox anchor person actually walked off a show yesterday out of disgust about how badly his co-anchors were distorting that statement?
"Just because his white grandmother was racist does that mean ALL whites are racist?"
Since when does typical mean "all"?
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SqurlyMurly
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3/22/2008 11:24:53 AM
"I'm sorry but even bringing up Obama in the context of being a Muslim is to cater to the most malevolent of internet rumormill. It resembles in no way his statement about his grandmother being a typical white person."
Oh but if Hillary or McCain had said something like this, you would have been dancing in the aisles saying how stupid they were. (and you'd have been right!) But they didn't!! Obama did, and it gives cause to take a closer look. That's all.
And his grandmother, in no way resembles me as a "typical white person"?? Hmmm..Loko - "what we have here is a failure to communicate" .
It appears that whatever fits into your agenda is okay but when someone raises a question, you evade with pseudo-intellectualism.
From Merriam-Webster:
typ·i·cal
Pronunciation: \'ti-pi-k?l\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Late Latin typicalis, from typicus, from Greek typikos, from typos model — more at type
Date: 1609
1 constituting or having the nature of a type : symbolic
2 a: combining or exhibiting the essential characteristics of a group,
typical suburban houses
b: conforming to a type, a specimen typical of the species
Okay Holo. Define your version of a "typical white person". Seriously, I want to know. Does that include me?
FOX? I said WIP Radio, a talk show where listeners can call in. READ MY LIPS!
"I'm not the only one who is enthusiastic about Obama. Why don't you go to one of his rallies and preach to the tens of thousands of Americans who show up at his events who feel the same way as I do?"
Preaching?? MOI? You're the one that started this Obama thread, amid the many you've already written; and continue to write. I simply believe in "equal time", one might say.
We can't help what my ancestors did or did not do, nor can we undo the attitudes of society from our youth. BUT, we can change and alter present attitudes. However, in order to do this I think we, all races, need to do the following: Look at our past - not dwell on or in it; Learn from it, and Progress forward. We will not do this until we conquer the preaching, or the innuendos cast upon our young to breed & instill hate and suspicion. History is like a big nasty oozing scab. Treat it with respect, cleanse it and it will heal. Keep picking at it and it will never heal, and it will bleed indefinitely.
Let me quote the local newspaper's editorial written by Washington Post's Charles Krauthammer:
"The Speech: A Brilliant Fraud
By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, March 21, 2008; Page A17
The beauty of a speech is that you don't just give the answers, you provide your own questions. "Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes." So said Barack Obama, in his Philadelphia speech about his pastor, friend, mentor and spiritual adviser of 20 years, Jeremiah Wright.
An interesting, if belated, admission. But the more important question is: which"controversial" remarks?
Wright's assertion from the pulpit that the U.S. government invented HIV "as a means of genocide against people of color"? Wright's claim that America was morally responsible for Sept. 11 -- "chickens coming home to roost" -- because of, among other crimes, Hiroshima and Nagasaki? (Obama says he missed church that day. Had he never heard about it?) What about the charge that the U.S. government (of Franklin Roosevelt, mind you) knew about Pearl Harbor, but lied about it? Or that the government gives drugs to black people, presumably to enslave and imprison them?
Obama condemns such statements as wrong and divisive, then frames the next question: "There will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church?"
But that is not the question. The question is why didn't he leave that church? Why didn't he leave -- why doesn't he leave even toda
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Holo Lukaloa
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3/22/2008 3:23:47 PM
"if Hillary or McCain had said something like this, you would have been dancing in the aisles"
If they spoke about a typical white person? Hardly. Obama is half white, he's allowed to say something like that. You only feel he isn't because you apparently see him as 100% black. Again you took it totally out of context probably because a certain sports talkshow host (a Hillary supporter I found out), made a big deal out of it on his show.
Fox News is the only TV network making a big deal out of this story, are you suggesting that they're the only one who sees it clearly? Just wondering.
Your cut and paste article is one of thousands bitching about Rev Wright and Obama. It's a cliche by now. Unless you sat in his church 100 hours and really knew what went on there, you're only a willing victim of a video-byte game.
"Okay Holo. Define your version of a "typical white person". Seriously, I want to know. Does that include me?"
Let's see. You brought up Obama in the same sentence as Muslim. You seem to be totally sold, based on the article you posted, by a few video clips that all this man Wright stands in his lifetime of work is evil unAmericanism. I don't know you well enough to judge if you're a typical white person but if you have underlying racial prejudices, you are. If you don't, you're not. I find it humorous that anybody is getting so indignant about "typical white person" when we've all been around people with racial prejudices all our lives. There are far more of those than truly enlightened white people.
"BUT, we can change and alter present attitudes. However, in order to do this I think we, all races, need to do the following: Look at our past - not dwell on or in it; Learn from it, and Progress forward. We will not do this until we conquer the preaching, or the innuendos cast upon our young to breed & instill hate and suspicion. History is like a big nasty oozing scab. Treat it with respect, cleanse it and it will heal. Keep picking at it and it will never heal, and it will bleed indefinitely."
The problem with you saying this is that Obama is the one who actually has the guts to address this discussion and is the best hope this country ever had short of Martin Luther King of changing present attitudes. Furthermore it is those who are obsessing on what goes on in the black churches that are picking at it, not Obama. He addressed an issue he already discussed numerous times because the right wing media was airing Rev Wright's video clips around the clock. You're absolutely pointing the finger in the wrong direction if you don't know the real culprit who is picking at these scabs. It is those who oppose Obama, either the Republicans who want to win in the fall so they can keep their fraudulent farce of a war going or it's the Clintons who will do anything to get the nomination include take down the whole Democratic party.
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LyinDan
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3/22/2008 5:28:32 PM
Might I add that Charles Krauthammer is an utter and complete ass, as well as a former shrink who couldn't hack a real job. Ever read him on other subjects?
OK, carry on.
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SqurlyMurly
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3/22/2008 5:47:07 PM
"a typical white person but if you have underlying racial prejudices, you are. If you don't, you're not." - Holo
Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus - Cite This Source - Share This
Main Entry: typical
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: usual
Synonyms: archetypal, archetypical, average, characteristic, classic, classical, common, commonplace, conventional, emblematic, essential, everyday, exemplary, expected, general, habitual, ideal, illustrative, in character*, in keeping, indicative, matter-of-course*, model, natural, normal, old hat*, ordinary, orthodox, paradigmatic, patterned, prevalent, prototypal, prototypical, quintessential, regular, representative, standard, standardized, stock, suggestive, symbolic, typic, unexceptional
Antonyms: atypical, different, unusual
Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.3.1)
Copyright © 2008 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
* = informal or slang
typical, average --I consider myself an average white person, live in a modest average or typical home, married, 2 kids, etc. Gee, I think I've just been called a racist .. . That's the kind of gibberish that keeps the pot boiling.
Geez! If Hillary or McCain had said something about the "typical black person", or "typical Muslim"! (just supposin' they had a grandma of either heritage) Understand now?!
"Obama is half white, he's allowed to say something like that. " So how racist is that statement? To say that because he is half white he can say that.
Don't play word games, Holo. You'll lose!
"Unless you sat in his church 100 hours and really knew what went on there, you're only a willing victim of a video-byte game."
Unless you sit inside Obama's head, you don't know what's going on in there, you're just a willing victim of a charismatic oratorical fraud. Come on Holo. Don't you know where all 3 candidates went to school? I do.
It happens to be on the corner of Bull & Shite. Called "Tell'em What They Wanna Hear".
"The problem with you saying this is that Obama is the one who actually has the guts to address this discussion and is the best hope this country ever had short of Martin Luther King of changing present attitudes. "
Weelllllll. excuse me. I guess he really had an impact on grandma's attitude. He is not the first to make promises and fail. How old are you?
You scare me Holo. You are as infatuated with Obama as some were with Hitler. Open your mind and think for yourself.
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Holo Lukaloa
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3/22/2008 6:56:09 PM
I see. Then the youth in America backing Obama are like Hitler's youth. Wow do you actually believe that?
So, you don't like any of the candidates. You're entitled to your opinion on that. Many years I haven't. This year I do like one of them, so I have to take ridicule from typical white people. :>)
Hiphop artists are allowed to say the N word. Fox News isn't covering that, I notice. That's cause they don't care if these hiphop acts sell records, but they do care if Obama gets elected.
You seem in denial that many caucasions have racial prejudices, how come? That's all Obama was saying and he said the same thing about blacks.
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SqurlyMurly
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3/22/2008 7:16:40 PM
No Holo. I'm not in denial. There are racial prejudices in every nationality. No one is immune to the disease. But when someone of Obama's prominence openly says something like that, it can give cause to fester. I never said it would but its open to the infection.
Holo, you tire me, my dear. I did not compare all the youth or anyone else to Hitler's youth.
"You scare me Holo. You are as infatuated with Obama as some were with Hitler. Open your mind and think for yourself."
That is what I said! YOU, Holo. YOU. You seem completely mesmerized by a normal man who happens to be a very good orator and has a charismatic personality. Never let yourself be oblivious to the faults of anyone! Your enthusiasm far exceeds any ability to intelligently discuss politics. For that one must keep an open mind and the ability to separate your personal feelings.
On that note, I believe I will leave this thread and venture back into the haven of humorous idiocies. Aloha.
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