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Holo Lukaloa
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8/12/2008 6:34:34 PM
McCain wants a new cold war. He is clearly a WAR MONGER. He is far worse than Bush.
How ridiculous is it and what does he expect to accomplish by crazy angry words at the Russians? We don't even have an army left to send in there anyway. Besides, one of his main campaign people is a lobbyist for Georgia. If McCain gets elected, the end of the world is so much closer. He is a short-tempered fool who thinks the answer to every problem is war.
Of course he is also a liar who is running a completely negative campaign after pledging to not do so. He is now attacking Obama for being unAmerican when he pledged last week not to do that.
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qelizabeth
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8/12/2008 7:01:17 PM
I am really sick of war. Our economy has gone to pot as a result and I'm waiting for my brother in law to come home. I hope he does.
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Diane Hulfnagel
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8/13/2008 12:10:22 AM
Around here the thinking is we need a tough guy like McCain to stand up to this bully Putin.
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Holo Lukaloa
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8/13/2008 1:09:14 AM
This isn't a one-sided dispute, and diplomacy is always better than shallow sabre rattling. America simply doesn't have the resources to do anything there anyway, it's all spent on a war that never should've happened.
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Diane Hulfnagel
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8/13/2008 1:53:00 AM
There is a time and place for diplomacy, but there are situations where it is not very effective, like dealing with pugnacious thugs. The bill for a bit of "peace in our time" always comes due and it can be darn expensive!
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Holo Lukaloa
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8/13/2008 2:13:14 AM
War is far more expensive.
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Diane Hulfnagel
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8/13/2008 12:44:05 PM
Looking weak leads to war.
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The Man With No Band
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8/13/2008 1:00:57 PM
---- Updated 8/13/2008 1:26:55 PM
Greed ... Self-Righteousness ... Ego's ... Fear ... over-all stupidity ... and idiotic old white haired wrinkly doods lead to war
War leads to ... Greed ... Self-Righteousness ... Ego's ... Fear ... over-all stupidity ... and young vibrant men and women that never get a chance to become old white haired wrinkly doods and doodettes ...
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The CODE
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8/13/2008 1:24:22 PM
Fuck War!
What we need is adults running the planet - NOT Arseholes!
Fuck War!!!
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The Man With No Band
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8/13/2008 1:49:47 PM
---- Updated 8/13/2008 1:49:47 PM
Using one's brains is not a sign of weakness .... unless of course one has none .....
I find it amusing that when Russia shows a sign of aggression the whole world wants to make them out to be the bad boys ... but when the U.S. shows aggression they are considered "the saviors".... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH !!!!!!!!!!!!
I have heard very little about how the Georgian's started this mess by killing innocent people ... of course ... they are a part of the "good guys" ... BWAHAHAHAHAHAhAHAH !!!!!!!!
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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8/13/2008 1:53:38 PM
----new neo con anthem-------
"Georgia on my Mind"
all together now----!!!
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LyinDan
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8/13/2008 1:56:57 PM
Anybody who wants the U.S. involved in this mess is completely insane. Go look at the history of this dispute. Let THEM duke it out.
Some neutral knowledge on the situation
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The Man With No Band
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8/13/2008 2:03:50 PM
---- Updated 8/13/2008 2:05:36 PM
Larree ... Attitudes like yours are the very reason that wars exist .....
Your people came to a Country that was formed by the annihilation of a race of people .... Good guys my ass !
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The CODE
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8/13/2008 2:07:49 PM
---- Updated 8/13/2008 2:09:59 PM
Sam - the story goes that there was some 'sparring' for a couple of days before
a massive bombardment kicked it off!
Not taking any sides here - we need adults running this planet - not hero's!
The past history of any great 'Empire' is pretty grim worldwide, but Fuck War -
it solves nothing!!!
L F T
Read the words!
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LyinDan
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8/13/2008 2:12:40 PM
Georgian-Russian encounters have been going on since the breakup of the Soviet Union, planes shot down, etc. Got pretty hot off and on. It's something these guys need to work out for themselves, unsettled business. We need to stay the hell out of it.
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Holo Lukaloa
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8/13/2008 2:18:09 PM
Tough talk and this kind of posturing is what sometimes causes wars. I absolutely do not want an incompetent president who acts like that every time there's a dispute in the world, especially since one of his main campaign aids is a lobbyist for Georgia.
The era for US presidents acting like they run the universe is over. It's time for a more intelligent approach.
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Jeff Allen Myers
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8/13/2008 3:52:17 PM
---- Updated 8/13/2008 3:55:32 PM
I could not disagree with you more Holo. I believe Strength keeps us out of wars, and the unquestionable reality that we will not hesitate to act. I agree diplomatic solutions should always be the goal and first resort, but a show of strength and resolve will always be needed. If this is not apparent, there is no doubt we will be tested by both rogue and friendly nations.
I think rogue nations and terrorists fear McCain and want Obama elected. He does not present an aura of strenghth in my opinion. Sure they will come to the table and listen to his eloquent speeches, but they must respect and fear him...period. Obama must be willing to act if need be, and our enemies must not question that resolve. The world has, and will always be governed by the threat of consequences. We have not evolved to the point where negotiation will solve all our problems. I wish this was not the case, but sadly we have a long way to go. If you disagree with this, you are living in a different world then I am.
We did not win the Cold War by negotiation. We won it by being stronger, and the Russians never doubted that Reagan meant business.
A wise person on this thread alluded to Neville Chamberlin and his fatal flaw in thinking Hitler respected anything but Power and brute force. The negotiation was a farce, and the Munich accords were worthless. Hitler knew Europe was weak, and he invaded Poland and France a year later.
As a Nation I would rather be Respected then liked...
The United States did not invade Iraq in a day, it went through international channels and approached the United Nations. Our Congress voted to go to war...the United nations passed a resolution. You can argue the international community was duped with false information, but I find it hypocritical of those who bash the intelligence of the Bush Administration and call the man an idiot, but grant him the ability and the competence to dupe the United States Congress as well as the International community. I do not agree with the war because I believe we could have kept Saddam in check.I also agree the war was mismanaged from the beginning. However, I do not agree with revisionist history that paints the United States as a brutal imperialistic nation with no regard for the international community. No one talks about the good the United States does, only the negative.
Sam, yes we screwed the Indians...I have no arguement there. However, progress was bound to occur, I am sorry it occured in such a shameful way. Its no consolation, but at least they are getting something back with Casino Gambling on their reservations. :)~ The Trail of tears was a travesty, and the United States Government lied time and Time again.
Whoever our next President is, he must be strong....and yes he must be feared. He should also be respected for his compassion, intelligence, and honesty. Its a huge job, and the person is often thrust into no win situations. The world is getting more complicated everyday, and make no mistake the United States will always be a target. It will be reviled, feared, and yes...many will respect and have a great fondness for it. The United States is in a World Leadership position, with it comes great responsibility. The stakes have never been higher.....
Of course these are just my personal opinions.... I have my Health, My Integrity, and my opinions :) If you read through my diatribe, I thank you. If you disagree with me, thats ok....I am just one simple man. Good Luck to us all!
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The Man With No Band
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8/13/2008 4:02:10 PM
---- Updated 8/13/2008 4:06:55 PM
I still say strength against strength is nothing more than egotistical stupidity ... How did the world exist for thousands of years without the U.S. being it's boss ?
I have read many times on these blogs how the "rest of the world" needs to grow up and join the 21st century .... If we are in this "World leadership" position that you speak of Jeff, then don't you think it's time we lead with our 21st century brains and not our 14th century tough cave man act ?
I think you give the rest of the world to little credit .....
I'm not sure how you can say we fucked the Indians and then try to justify it with calling it progress ?
Is it progress what we have done in Iraq ? ... All the dead ? ... The millions of refugees ? ... The walls built around every inch of the cities ? ... the lack of electricity and water ?
Was it progress what we did in Korea ? ... Was it progress what we did in Nam ?
War will never bring progress.....
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The CODE
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8/13/2008 4:14:08 PM
War is Fucking Pointless!
IMO!!!
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The Man With No Band
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8/13/2008 4:23:16 PM
Look at it this way ..... Why not set up a budget ... oh ... let's say around 10 BILLION dollars a month .... take that money and spread it around the globe, investing in peoples lives and education and over-all well being ... bringing hope and light and love to the world .... That's what 21st century human beings should be doing ....
Instead they spend 10 BILLION dollars a month reeking havoc on the world ... filling contractors pockets to the tune of several BILLION dollars in the process ... Acting big and tough and IDIOTIC !!!!!!!!!!!
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The CODE
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8/13/2008 4:33:19 PM
What would Jerry Garcia have to say about that?
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qelizabeth
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8/13/2008 4:36:18 PM
WARS are generally created so that somebody can make a lot of MONEY.
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The CODE
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8/13/2008 4:42:06 PM
Circles - we arrive where we started!
Larree - your lyrics on WWIII contain a lot of answers to questions I ask!
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The Man With No Band
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8/13/2008 4:43:29 PM
---- Updated 8/13/2008 4:54:32 PM
You really should get your eyes off that brainwashing T.V. of yours Larree ... There's a lot more good going on in the world than ever before ....
The psychos are very mild these days compared to the history of the world ....
This is nowhere close to 1936 or 1236 either .... People everywhere want the same things ... Americans don't hold a monopoly on wanting happiness and peace ...
It's the psychos in political power that are deranged ... even our own, sad to say ...
You are all wanting a government to protect you ... when the government is a part of the problem ...
Propaganda B.S. ... and you are buying into it ... just like the masses in Germany did in the 1930's ....
You are right about one thing .... this isn't the '60's anymore .... but that is when people had it right ... too bad some of you sold out your beliefs ....
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Baby
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8/13/2008 4:49:21 PM
Kill whitey. War is to reduce the population so the remaining can have all the toys.
So, enjoy the toys before your dead. Squander the earth you useless pieces of human excrement. For from the ashes will rise another day and then we will fuck it all up again. The candle is burning low.
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Jeff Allen Myers
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8/13/2008 4:59:01 PM
---- Updated 8/13/2008 5:03:37 PM
Sam,
Perhaps you would like to ride the range hunting Buffalo with no electricity or a real roof over your head? Who am I kidding, I think you would Sam :) ...this is the progress of which I speak. The Indians could not hold on to the miles and miles of open land, I am sorry it could not have been shared in a more civilized way. As I stated It was shameful.
War is complicated, it cannot be reduced to one liners and accusations. World War two was just, and we had to fight in my opinion. Korea and Vietnam were about preventing the spread of communism, Make no mistake, retraint was used to our detriment in both as both conflicts could have escalted o a world war. Russia was always the enemy..... as it turned out both wars were ill advised and proved little, but I can't speak for those who were making the decisions. Truman, Kennedy, LBJ...... Iam not a historian, but I know it is just not as simple as War is wrong and "Fuck War"
Humans have been at War for as long as they could throw a fricken rock......
The world can do far worse then having a democracy holding the leadership position. What if Hitler had won? If Russia had prevailed in the cold war? what if radical terrorists get nuclear weapons? Chavez in South America? What of North Korea, Iran, or a Russia who wants to assume the power it lost?
Sam I respect your opinions, and you have a personal scar in the Iraq war, and what I say is not meant to dminish your sadness and anger. However, we have an all volunteer army, and those who enlisted knew of the potential consequences. I am 43, and have been lucky in that I never had to fight in a war, I pray my Son ...or anyones Son never does. The Vietnam war ended over thirty years ago, and the current war...by historical terms can barely be termed a war. We have lost over three thousand brave souls in this conflict. Each is incredibly special and Vital.
I am thankful we have so far been able to avoid another world war. I believe the strenghth of the United States has helped to avoid one. Here are the estimated numbers of people lost in the last World War....The numbers are staggering.
MILITARY CIVILIAN TOTAL
GERMANY 3,500,000 700,000 4,200,000
JAPAN 2,000,000 350,000 2,350,000
ROMANIA 300,000 160,000 460,000
HUNGARY 140,000 290,000 430,000
ITALY 330,000 80,000 410,000
AUSTRIA 230,000 104,000 334,000
FINLAND 82,000 2,000 84,000
SOVIET UNION 10,000,000 10,000,000 * 20,000,000
CHINA 2,500,000 7,500,00 10,000,000
POLAND 100,00 5,700,000 5,800,000
YUGOSLAVIA 300,000 1,400,000 1,700,000
FRANCE 250,000 350,000 600,000
CZECHOSLOVAKIA 200,000 215,000 415,000
UNITED STATES 400,000 — 400,000
UNITED KINGDOM (ENGLAND, SCOTLAND, WALES, AND NORTHERN IRELAND) 326,000 62,000 388,000
NETHERLANDS 12,000 198,000 210,000
GREECE 20,000 140,000 160,000
BELGIUM 12,000 76,000 88,000
CANADA 37,000 — 37,000
INDIA 24,000 13,000 37,000
AUSTRALIA 23,000 12,000 35,000
ALBANIA 28,000 2,000 30,000
BULGARIA 10,000 10,000 20,000
NEW ZEALAND 10,000 2,000 12,000
NORWAY 6,400 3,900 10,300
SOUTH AFRICA 7,000 —
ETHIOPIA 5,000 — 5,000
LUXEMBOURG 5,000 — 5,000
MALTA — 2,000 2,000
DENMARK 400 1,000 1,400
BRAZIL 1,000 — 1,000
EST. TOTAL 20,858,800 27,372,900 48,231,700
FOURTY EIGHT MILLION TWO HUNDRED THIRTY ONE THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED!!!!!!
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LyinDan
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8/13/2008 5:00:58 PM
Ossetians are ethnic Russians who fled the Mongols and settled their current territory hundreds of years ago. Some of you need to study up on this. It's as if the U.S. broke up, Texas was claimed by Mexico on grounds of history, even though Americans were the dominant peoples there. Of course the U.S. would want it back.
Saakashvili is an idiot who bit off more than he could chew. Not the first time that's happened. Saddam did it with Kuwait back when he thought we were buddies. Just waving the American flag shouldn't be enough to get us dragged into it.
All this saber rattling. There's a time for that, but this isn't it. Not worth it. The Russkies are probably right. And the Georgians definitely started this latest skirmish, which backfired on them.
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The Man With No Band
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8/13/2008 5:50:13 PM
---- Updated 8/13/2008 5:54:37 PM
Lyin Dan ... How dare you present researched facts into the mix ! ... :)
Remember ... the Russians are the bad guys ... the Georgians are the good guys ... That's what the T.V. says .... why should we research the facts when the media fills us in on the TRUTH ? Bwahahahhahahaahaha !!!!!!!!!
All I know is as long as people think that War is a necessity (no matter what their justification for it is) there will be War ... So ya all get what you deserve ... and the rest of us will just have to feel like we're getting screwed... The worst part is it's all our children getting screwed ....
My feelings about war are not due to my personal loss in the Iraq war ... but rather the feeling I was more than likely born with ... or at least for the last 40 years or so ...
There was a saying .... "All we are saying ... is give peace a chance" ... and ya know what ... Those in power see that, that could work ... but they are so afraid of being proven wrong and have their heads so far up their egotistical Arses that they will NEVER give peace a chance ... after all there is no profit in Peace .... or is there ?
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Diane Hulfnagel
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8/13/2008 5:58:03 PM
Well I really hate to bounce your topic up for you Holo. But I have to say Larree has it right, and expresses it clearly enough for even you to see -- if you take off your blinders!
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The Man With No Band
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8/13/2008 6:00:22 PM
How many terrorist have invaded Nebraska ?
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Diane Hulfnagel
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8/13/2008 6:03:06 PM
Well, we have had some meth labs blow up, but it is usually attributed to natural causes. :)
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LyinDan
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8/13/2008 6:09:37 PM
Any of you skinheads care to tackle some real facts? You could rebut the ones I've listed instead of letting your hormones think for you.
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Jeff Allen Myers
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8/13/2008 6:20:08 PM
War!...huh!....good Gawd... What is it good for?...absolutly nothing....say it again!
War!...huh!...good Gawd... What is it good for?..absolutly nothing....say it again! :)~
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qelizabeth
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8/13/2008 6:33:38 PM
This is a bit off topic but one reason I think Obama has a chance is that McCain has not been baptised, by choice. A lot of voters would never get behind someone who hasn't.
I'm not expressing my personal views, but I think that may be a factor.
Of course, this fact is not really in the news.
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LyinDan
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8/13/2008 6:40:24 PM
Oh, the horror! hahahaha
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Holo Lukaloa
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8/13/2008 7:45:07 PM
More news is coming in on this. It appears McCain himself might have provoked this conflict by giving overconfidence to the Georgia government. They seem to have thought they had bought America's backing for what they chose to do, in part by paying $200,000 to McCain's top foreign policy advisor.
Diane, if Larree ran the country we would all be dead cause Larree would like us to be at war with anyone who looks at us the wrong way, hard to believe you'd be part of that philosophy.
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Holo Lukaloa
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8/13/2008 7:47:42 PM
Jeff, Obama is strong but intelligent and pragmatic. McCain is a creature of the military who's only answer to foreign policy issues is war.
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