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We all know that crap is king we love dirty laundry. But really Sarah, it sounds like you may regret throwing those stones! I knew from the start she was a dumbass!

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Diane Hulfnagel

10/9/2008 7:56:46 PM

Find your rituals comforting Holo? Special Comment my ass, how pompous. :)

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10/9/2008 8:44:22 PM

I lost track after about lie #129 in that nutjob's "special report".. I would like to see him just defend one of his baseless charges in a court of law.., he wouldn't be so bold then.

The Ayers-Obama connection isn't such a big deal to me either if it really was about improving education in Chicago but instead it seems it was more about indoctrinating impressionable schoolchildren into political radicalism according to the Wall Street Journal.

It's also a matter about honesty. Collaborating with Bill Ayers to improve failing schools in Chicago is nothing that needs to be hidden from anyone. But they didn't improve any of the schools they were supposed too and not one dime of the 100 + million dollars they went through was spent for the schools themselves..

Here's the real story Holo..

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122212856075765367.html?mod=djemEditorialPage

"One unsettled question is how Mr. Obama, a former community organizer fresh out of law school, could vault to the top of a new foundation? In response to my questions, the Obama campaign issued a statement saying that Mr. Ayers had nothing to do with Obama's "recruitment" to the board. The statement says Deborah Leff and Patricia Albjerg Graham (presidents of other foundations) recruited him. Yet the archives show that, along with Ms. Leff and Ms. Graham, Mr. Ayers was one of a working group of five who assembled the initial board in 1994. Mr. Ayers founded CAC and was its guiding spirit. No one would have been appointed the CAC chairman without his approval.

The CAC's agenda flowed from Mr. Ayers's educational philosophy, which called for infusing students and their parents with a radical political commitment, and which downplayed achievement tests in favor of activism. In the mid-1960s, Mr. Ayers taught at a radical alternative school, and served as a community organizer in Cleveland's ghetto.

In works like "City Kids, City Teachers" and "Teaching the Personal and the Political," Mr. Ayers wrote that teachers should be community organizers dedicated to provoking resistance to American racism and oppression. His preferred alternative? "I'm a radical, Leftist, small 'c' communist," Mr. Ayers said in an interview in Ron Chepesiuk's, "Sixties Radicals," at about the same time Mr. Ayers was forming CAC.

CAC translated Mr. Ayers's radicalism into practice. Instead of funding schools directly, it required schools to affiliate with "external partners," which actually got the money. Proposals from groups focused on math/science achievement were turned down. Instead CAC disbursed money through various far-left community organizers, such as the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (or Acorn)."

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Holo Lukaloa

10/9/2008 9:52:47 PM

I pity you 2. You must feel like the people who bet on Big Brown to win the Belmont, only to have the horse come up lame and last.

The truth is finally out about Palin's associations. Read it and weep. :>)))))))))

I suppose I should also mention the results of the investigation of troopergate are released later today (Friday) also and since McCain and Palin have released their own spin, one suspects that the report may be a little daunting.

PS Diane, did you see your hero Hannity get taken to school the other night? Wasn't that a beautiful thing?

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Holo Lukaloa

10/9/2008 10:03:49 PM

This next article is a sidenote for Jeff Allen Myers and anybody who thinks all election things are equal.

Dan Balz’s corrupted journalistic “balance”

The Washington Post’s Dan Balz has an article today perfectly illustrating how the modern journalist’s conception of “balance” leads them to distort the truth. Balz’s article is about the increasing use of “character attacks” in the presidential race, and rather than state the truth — that the McCain/Palin ticket is now relying almost exclusively on some of the ugliest and most outright dangerous character smears seen in a modern presidential election — Balz instead pretends that this is a phenomenon of which both sides are guilty in equal measure:

At a time when the nation needs inspiration and confidence-building, the two candidates running for president are trying to ensure that whoever ends up winning next month will be seen as unfit by a sizable portion of the population.

To see the two candidates in a pair of appearances here in Ohio over the past two days is to see John McCain and Barack Obama attacking each other not just because of their different visions and pre_scriptions for the problems the country is now facing, but going straight at each other over character, fitness and behavior.

Has Balz bothered to watch the news for the last week? The rallies at John McCain and Sarah Palin’s events are rabid, drooling lynch mobs spouting the most vile and extreme accusations against Barack Obama personally that can be imagined. Here is what the AP report of the McCain/Palin event today in Ohio describes — now a regular, daily feature of their events:

“We’ve all heard what he’s said. But it’s less clear what he’s done, or what he will do,” McCain told supporters in the battleground state of Pennsylvania.

McCain’s remarks about Obama were interrupted with shouts of “socialist,” “terrorist” and “liar.”

Just look at the videotapes of the angry, hateful hordes attending these rallies — screaming that Obama is a socialist; that he’s both a Muslim and a terrorist as proven by his “bloodline” and his name; that his supporters are “commie faggots”; that he’s guilty of treason; underscored by increasing racial invective and even punctuated in one case by a call from an audience member for someone to be killed. These aren’t just isolated individuals; these sentiments are common at these rallies and becoming increasingly virulent and enraged — at the rallies and otherwise:

A billboard in West Plains, Mo., showing a caricature of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama wearing a turban has caused quite a stir in town.

The sign, located south of West Plains on U.S. 63 across from the Dairy Queen, says: “Barack ‘Hussein’ Obama equals more abortions, same sex marriages, taxes, gun regulations.”

And worst of all, all of this rage and this innuendo is taking place in the most volatile climate of all — one of severe economic distress and anxiety — and these mobs are increasingly becoming convinced, because the Right and the McCain/Palin campaign is leading them to believe it, that this economic crisis is the fault of the black candidate — Obama — for making banks give mortgages to racial minorities. As an email printed just now by Jonah Goldberg put it — defending someone at a McCain/Palin rally today who screamed he was “very angry” at Obama the “socialist”:

He, and the rest of the conservatives in this country are sick and tired of being taken for granted, having our money stolen by the government and given to lazy, ungrateful people who don’t contribute or produce (or often, aren’t even citizens) anything.

This is what happens when you stoke the fury and resentments of people looking for scapegoats and work them into a blind rage. And they didn’t just pop up and start believing this. They’re saying this because the core premise of the McCain/Palin campaign has become that Barack Hussein Obama is a Terrorist-sympathizer, being funded by secret Arab sources, who hates the military and the troops. As McCain now asks in his most sinister tone in every speech: Who is the real Barack Obama? As National Review’s illustratively deranged Andy McCarthy put it: ” Someone is either a terrorist sympathizer or he isn’t; someone is either disqualified as a terrorist sympathizer or he’s qualified for public office.”

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Holo Lukaloa

10/9/2008 10:04:43 PM

(continued)

Look at those videos linked above if you haven’t seen them (this one, this one and this one). Is there anything even remotely comparable taking place at Obama rallies? Are the accusations against McCain even arguably similar to the Right’s relentless and self-evidently dangerous depiction of Obama as a military-hating, subversive Muslim and Terrorist? What do we do with Terrorists and traitors — or, in the past, with those wanting to take over the U.S. with a secret socialist agenda? We kill them. If that’s what Obama is, if that’s what hordes of enraged right-wing mobs are becoming convinced of and having those passions stoked, then what should be done to Obama — just merely defeat him in the presidential campaign?

Balz’s own attempt to justify his even-handedness exposes the absurdity of what he’s doing. After cataloguing the McCain/Palin attacks on Obama, this is what Balz offers up to show how Fair and Objective he is:

Obama said the McCain plan would reward bad behavior by banks, enrich real estate speculators and cost the taxpayers a bundle. “It’s a plan that would guarantee that you, the American taxpayers, would lose,” he said.

He might have stopped there, since he had made clear his differences with McCain. But he went further, and his words sent a different and far more negative message to the audience. “I don’t think we can afford that kind of erratic and uncertain leadership in these uncertain times,” he said, adding, “We need a president we can trust in times of crisis” …

But in these last weeks of the campaign, Obama and McCain are going farther in their efforts to raise doubts about each other. McCain’s code is to suggest something sinister about Obama, to say there is something lurking in his past that Americans should fear. Obama, by using the word “erratic” to describe his rival seems to suggest that he is in some way unstable and therefore unacceptable.

Saying that McCain has been ”erratic” over the past couple of months is plainly true and, even if it weren’t, it is a claim about McCain’s behavior as a leader, as a candidate, and his ability to lead the country. By obvious contrast —as Balz himself says — “McCain’s code is to suggest something sinister about Obama, to say there is something lurking in his past that Americans should fear.” Those accusations exist in different universes. Beyond that, 100% — 100% — of all McCain ads are now negative attacks on Obama, while only 1/3 of Obama ads entail negative attacks on McCain.

Everyone can see with their own eyes: over the last two weeks, we have witnessed some of the ugliest and most dangerous attacks by any presidential campaign that one can recall — not from surrogates or from shadowy groups but from the candidates themselves and their campaign. The most hated, despised thing one can be in the U.S. is a “terrorist,” followed closely by ”traitor” and, in many circles, “Muslim.” The McCain/Palin ticket’s prime strategy now is to win by scaring Americans into believing that Obama — the first black candidate with a viable change to become President in our country’s history — is all of those things. There just is nothing comparable to that.

Honest journalists will describe that fact. Cowardly ones for whom “balance” subordinates truth because it insulates them from charges of “bias” will do what Balz just did.

UPDATE: From an Agence France Presse wire story today:

Inflammatory Republican rallies raise concerns

WAUKESHA, Wisconsin (AFP) - Shouts of “terrorist” and “treason” aimed at Barack Obama have echoed around Republican rallies, whipping up into alarming, hate-filled frenzies against the Democratic White House hopeful.

Republican presidential nominee John McCain has taken to asking, “Who is the real Barack Obama?” at rallies this week, leading one supporter in Pennsylvania, a blue-collar battleground state to shout back, “he is a bomb.”

Chants of “Nobama, Nobama” mingled with cries of “terrorist,” as one banner in the crowd declared: “Go ahead, let the dogs out.”

Journalistic attempts to create false equivalencies where none exists — such as Balz’s article today — are, in general, dishonest. But when it comes to describing what the McCain/Palin campaign is doing in particular, the attempt to create equivalency (“they’re both going negative”) suppresses a vital truth and is also irresponsible in the extreme. For reasons persuasively set forth here, these tactics are highly unlikely to help McCain win, but they could quite possibly have far-reaching consequences independent of the election outcome.

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Diane Hulfnagel

10/9/2008 11:14:37 PM

Holo: No, I didn't see that. I am interested though. What happened?

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Holo Lukaloa

10/9/2008 11:46:45 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM-KjMz7PyU&feature=related

Here it is. The whole guilt by association argument got shattered by example. Some refer to this incident as Hannity RIP.

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10/10/2008 2:50:27 AM ---- Updated 10/10/2008 2:51:53 AM

Excuse me Holo but don't you find anything wrong with a 60's radical and current presidential candidate taking $160,000,000 and refusing to use any of it to improve math and science scores as requested by the schools that money was supposed to benefit?

That money was given to improve education in failing public schools but was not used for that and that's OK with you? Isn't that what fraud is?

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10/10/2008 5:46:35 AM ---- Updated 10/10/2008 6:27:55 AM

The issue isn't guilt by association Holo, the issue is honesty and since the money from the Anneberg Trust was used to instill a William Ayers style of radicalism rather than the scholastic improvements the schools wanted and thought they were getting, what that money really bought and whose coffers it ended up in is a cause for concern. And it doesn't matter how many leftists show up an McCain-Palin rallys shouting hostile comments to smear McCain-Palin, that's just a smokescreen at best designed to hide the disturbing truth of the Ayers-Obama connection as most people are aware of.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122212856075765367.html?mod=djemEditorialPage

"Mr. Ayers is the founder of the "small schools" movement (heavily funded by CAC), in which individual schools built around specific political themes push students to "confront issues of inequity, war, and violence." He believes teacher education programs should serve as "sites of resistance" to an oppressive system. (His teacher-training programs were also CAC funded.) The point, says Mr. Ayers in his "Teaching Toward Freedom," is to "teach against oppression," against America's history of evil and racism, thereby forcing social transformation.

The Obama campaign has cried foul when Bill Ayers comes up, claiming "guilt by association." Yet the issue here isn't guilt by association; it's guilt by participation. As CAC chairman, Mr. Obama was lending moral and financial support to Mr. Ayers and his radical circle. That is a story even if Mr. Ayers had never planted a single bomb 40 years ago."

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Holo Lukaloa

10/10/2008 11:20:22 AM

This Ayers issue wouldn't even be out there now if McCain wasn't losing so badly. Many right wing journalists even have called it a red herring. Rant on though, you're losing ground running such nonstop negative ads.

McCain and Palin have many questionable associations and those are more current, not about a guy who did bad things when the candidate was 8 years old.

IMO, a revolutionary doing extreme acts against the Vietnam war isn't necessarily that bad. We know some of the sick things Nixon did were just as immoral.

Who is the real Barack Obama? Easy, the next president of the US. :>)

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10/10/2008 11:36:15 AM

The freedom to protest is a right. Bombing public buildings, the homes of Federal Judges with the intent to kill not to mention police officers who were in fact killed is not a right, those are criminal acts that should still be open to prosecution.

Had Ayers ever repented for his acts I would be more sympathetic. Instead he involved in what amounts to the heist of hundreds of millions of dollars that is not all accounted for, money gained under false pretenses of improving education but used to infect impressionable children with the virus a politically radical activism. (He sure is mainstream now alright..)

I'm sure if one of those bombs had killed someone you loved you'd still be singing his praises.. Some great hero allright..

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never never band

10/10/2008 12:12:46 PM ---- Updated 10/10/2008 12:16:51 PM

cant get replies to work on this thread...

I'd love to post a story about G Gordan Liddy, John McCains dear fiend..But I wont take..
sigh..

I leave you to your own research..
here's a good place to start

http://www.bluebloggin.com/2008/10/05/john-mccains-dear-friend-american-terrorist-g-gordon-liddy/

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Kevin White

10/10/2008 1:08:28 PM ---- Updated 10/10/2008 1:11:56 PM

Meanwhile ... back at the Obama camp, ads make points about McCain's association with the Keating scandal.

Both negative campaigning.

OTOH ... a recent survey reveals that ALL McCain's ads are negative attacks on character. Conversely, about a third of Obama's ads are such ... whereas two thirds of the ads continue to address the issues.

Curiously, McCain's intended impact is having an opposite effect ... as polls across the board show the gap widening significantly with Obama pulling larger and larger shares.

Most of comments regarding McCain's ads are relatively dismissive of the character ads ... wondering why McCain is choosing to go the low road when everyone would rather hear what he's going to do to pull the economy back on track. They're finding his dearth of compaigning on the issues and instead resorting to sleaze tactics to be ... lacking substance where and when substance is needed.

It's an interesting study. Historically, smear campaigns have been successful ... which is why they're so prevalent.

Oddly, this year, people are turning against the person hurling the mud and more towards the person outlining the solutions.

That's rather heartening.

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Vartan

10/10/2008 1:25:08 PM

AMEN KEITH!!!! A-FUCKING-MEN!!!!!!

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never never band

10/10/2008 3:57:50 PM ---- Updated 10/10/2008 4:01:40 PM

But all it takes is one nut with a gun to get all riled up by one of these McCain/Palin commercials...

We have a commercial running here supported by John McCain that makes a direct attack on this Ayers nonsense.
And this after we already have nuts yelling "terrorist" at McCain events here and McCain wont address it or speak out against it.

I tell ya that creepy little man is evil....he'll do anything at this point.

Do you know who John Admires?
who he Gushes over?

G Liddy!!

* Liddy was convicted for his role in the Watergate break-in, for conspiracy in the Daniel Ellsberg case and for contempt of court, spending about four and a half years in prison. In 1986, a federal appeals court found Liddy liable for $20,499 in back taxes on Watergate slush-fund money, rejecting his claim that his benefits did not exceed $45,000. As one of the White House “plumbers,” Liddy spent about $300,000 engineering political dirty tricks and the Watergate break-in. Liddy lives in Fort Washington, Md.

In his book Will: The Autobiography of G. Gordon Liddy, Liddy has acknowledged preparing to kill someone during the Ellsberg break-in “if necessary”; plotting to murder journalist Jack Anderson; plotting with a “gangland figure” to murder Howard Hunt to stop him from cooperating with investigators; plotting to firebomb the Brookings Institution; and plotting to kidnap protesters “leftist guerillas” at the 1972 Republican National Convention. Liddy using Nazi terminology, outlined his plan to Attorney Genral John Mitchell and memebers of the Nixon administration.

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10/10/2008 5:33:33 PM ---- Updated 10/10/2008 5:35:45 PM

"We have a commercial running here supported by John McCain that makes a direct attack on this Ayers nonsense.
And this after we already have nuts yelling "terrorist" at McCain events here and McCain wont address it or speak out against it."

One of those "nuts yelling terrorist" wouldn't be you now would it Never Band? Or maybe just some admirers of Bill Ayers?

You know how that trick works right Never Band? A handful of provocateurs show up at a rally, start making chants the rest of the audience would never make and the troublemakers get the press to report their antics thereby smearing the rest of the crowd along with Palin & McCain..

Neat trick now isn't it???

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Kyle Whiddieker

10/10/2008 5:52:49 PM

What's needed is tax cuts. They pay for themselves and them some.

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never never band

10/10/2008 5:56:50 PM

Tax Cuts where?
how are we gonna pay for this war with Tax Cuts?
Your Reaganomics are what got us here, it doesn't work!!!

HA HA HA!!

Gregg, your getting nuttier all the time..

Listen, all it would take is for Palin or McCain to say "Hey, That's innappropriate speech and I wont have it at my event, pipe down or security will escort you out"

They'd immediately have taken the high ground...

but no, they endorse this sort of speech with their commercials and their silence .

Hey, what About Liddy Gregg?
Is he your hero too?
of just John McCains?

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Holo Lukaloa

10/10/2008 6:13:37 PM

McCain finally spoke up to his crowd about being respectful, and they booed him!

Palin is the wacko responsible for this IMO.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/McCain_asks_crowd_to_be_respectful_of_Obama.html

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10/10/2008 6:17:37 PM

"Listen, all it would take is for Palin or McCain to say "Hey, That's innappropriate speech and I wont have it at my event, pipe down or security will escort you out"

------

It's that simple right? First we have to assume it has even happened and this is not another invention by the media or another ploy by the Obama campaign to portray themselves as innocent victims again when nothing could possibly be further from the truth.

And speaking of the truth, why is the fact 160,000,000 was fraudulently obtained under the guise of improving education but Ayers & co refused requests by the schools that money was intended to benefit to be use to improve math and science scores? Instead it was used to radicalize impressionable schoolchildren to carry forward Ayers & friends political agenda.

Not one dime of that money was spent for the schools it was intended for and you find nothing wrong with this?

This is clearly fraud but that's not a problem right?

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Holo Lukaloa

10/10/2008 6:21:44 PM

(AP) Sarah Palin unlawfully abused her power as governor by trying to have her former brother-in-law fired as a state trooper, the chief investigator of an Alaska legislative panel concluded Friday. The politically charged inquiry imperiled her reputation as a reformer on John McCain's Republican ticket.

Investigator Stephen Branchflower, in a report by a bipartisan panel that investigated the matter, found Palin in violation of a state ethics law that prohibits public officials from using their office for personal gain.

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10/10/2008 6:26:17 PM

That's not true and you know it Holo. He was fired because he was making unauthorized trips to Washington and conducting state business on his own. It had nothing to do with her x-brother-inlaw, the wonderful guy who tased his own 10 year old stepson, drank on the job and threatened the life of Sarah Palin's father.

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never never band

10/10/2008 6:28:14 PM ---- Updated 10/10/2008 6:33:34 PM

Gregg,
you're not answering my questions you silly boy..
we always answer you, now be polite..

what are your thoughts about Liddy?
John McCain supports him all the way, his ideology , his method..all of it.
he says to Liddy..
"“I’m proud of you, I’m proud of your family,” he gushed. “It’s always a pleasure for me to come on your program, Gordon, and congratulations on your continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great.”"

How bout that Gregg?
do you agree?
Is Liddy an american hero?

and as for sarah, you're a lone wolf on this one (a dangerous thing to be in Sarahs company)

here's the report..

"""""Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin abused her power as Alaska's governor in a case that involves the firing of her former public safety commissioner, a report for the state Legislature concluded today. The bipartisan Legislative Council, which commissioned the probe, unanimously adopted the 263-page public report after a marathon executive session""""

huh?

A bipartisan commission UNANIMOUSLY agrees Gregg...

silly boy

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10/10/2008 6:46:49 PM ---- Updated 10/10/2008 6:48:50 PM

Never Band, you won't address the issue of the heist of 160 millions dollars (200 million if the Woods Project is factored in..) because it doesn't matter to you. Letting a domestic terrorist (who would have no qualms bombing your own family if it forwarded his twisted agenda too) poison the minds of impressionable schoolchildren who might just someday decide to pick up where he left off isn't an issue at all to you now is it Neverband?

The issue is honesty again Neverband and though Obama preaches transparency in goverment the Ayers matter clearly demonstrates what kind of "transparency" will really be practiced instead.

Dead cops, intent to kill soldiers, attempts to murder NY Supreme Court Justices and their families, that's not a problem with you at all...

And radicalizing schoolchildren in the same idealogy that made those crimes possible while $160,000,000 disappear.., that's nothing at all to be concerned about..

Brilliant.

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Holo Lukaloa

10/10/2008 6:59:16 PM

Oct. 10, 2008 PALMER, Alaska — | On the afternoon of Sept. 24 in downtown Palmer, Alaska, as the sun began to sink behind the snowcapped mountains that flank the picturesque Mat-Su Valley, 51-year-old Mark Chryson sat for an hour on a park bench, reveling in tales of his days as chairman of the Alaska Independence Party. The stocky, gray-haired computer technician waxed nostalgic about quixotic battles to eliminate taxes, support the “traditional family” and secede from the United States.

So long as Alaska remained under the boot of the federal government, said Chryson, the AIP had to stand on guard to stymie a New World Order. He invited a Salon reporter to see a few items inside his pickup truck that were intended for his personal protection. “This here is my attack dog,” he said with a chuckle, handing the reporter an exuberant 8-pound papillon from his passenger seat. “Her name is Suzy.” Then he pulled a 9-millimeter Makarov PM pistol — once the standard-issue sidearm for Soviet cops — out of his glove compartment. “I’ve got enough weaponry to raise a small army in my basement,” he said, clutching the gun in his palm. “Then again, so do most Alaskans.” But Chryson added a message of reassurance to residents of that faraway place some Alaskans call “the 48.” “We want to go our separate ways,” he said, “but we are not going to kill you.”

Though Chryson belongs to a fringe political party, one that advocates the secession of Alaska from the Union, and that organizes with other like-minded secessionist movements from Canada to the Deep South, he is not without peculiar influence in state politics, especially the rise of Sarah Palin. An obscure figure outside of Alaska, Chryson has been a political fixture in the hometown of the Republican vice-presidential nominee for over a decade. During the 1990s, when Chryson directed the AIP, he and another radical right-winger, Steve Stoll, played a quiet but pivotal role in electing Palin as mayor of Wasilla and shaping her political agenda afterward. Both Stoll and Chryson not only contributed to Palin’s campaign financially, they played major behind-the-scenes roles in the Palin camp before, during and after her victory.

Thanks for your support.

Palin backed Chryson as he successfully advanced a host of anti-tax, pro-gun initiatives, including one that altered the state Constitution’s language to better facilitate the formation of anti-government militias. She joined in their vendetta against several local officials they disliked, and listened to their advice about hiring. She attempted to name Stoll, a John Birch Society activist known in the Mat-Su Valley as “Black Helicopter Steve,” to an empty Wasilla City Council seat. “Every time I showed up her door was open,” said Chryson. “And that policy continued when she became governor.”

When Chryson first met Sarah Palin, however, he didn’t really trust her politically. It was the early 1990s, when he was a member of a local libertarian pressure group called SAGE, or Standing Against Government Excess. (SAGE’s founder, Tammy McGraw, was Palin’s birth coach.) Palin was a leader in a pro-sales-tax citizens group called WOW, or Watch Over Wasilla, earning a political credential before her 1992 campaign for City Council. Though he was impressed by her interpersonal skills, Chryson greeted Palin’s election warily, thinking she was too close to the Democrats on the council and too pro-tax.

But soon, Palin and Chryson discovered they could be useful to each other. Palin would be running for mayor, while Chryson was about to take over the chairmanship of the Alaska Independence Party, which at its peak in 1990 had managed to elect a governor.

The AIP was born of the vision of “Old Joe” Vogler, a hard-bitten former gold miner who hated the government of the United States almost as much as he hated wolves and environmentalists. His resentment peaked during the early 1970s when the federal government began installing Alaska’s oil and gas pipeline. Fueled by raw rage — “The United States has made a colony of Alaska,” he told author John McPhee in 1977 — Vogler declared a maverick candidacy for the governorship in 1982. Though he lost, Old Joe became a force to be reckoned with, as well as a constant source of amusement for Alaska’s political class. During a gubernatorial debate in 1982, Vogler proposed using nuclear weapons to obliterate the glaciers blocking roadways to Juneau. “There’s gold under there!” he exclaimed.

Vogler made another failed run for the governor’s mansion in 1986. But the AIP’s fortunes shifted suddenly four years later when Vogler convinced Richard Nixon’s former interior secretary, Wally Hickel, to run for governor under his party’s banner. Hickel coasted to victory, outflanking a moderate Republican and a centrist Democrat. An archconservative Republican running under the AIP candidate, Jack Coghill, was elected lieutenant governor.

Hickel’s subsequent failure as governor to press for a vote on Alaskan independence rankled Old Joe. With sponsorship from the Islamic Republic of Iran, Vogler was scheduled to present his case for Alaskan secession before the United Nations General Assembly in the late spring of 1993. But before he could, Old Joe’s long, strange political career ended tragically that May when he was murdered by a fellow secessionist.

Hickel rejoined the Republican Party the year after Vogler’s death and didn’t run for reelection. Lt. Gov. Coghill’s campaign to succeed him as the AIP candidate for governor ended in disaster; he peeled away just enough votes from the Republican, Jim Campbell, to throw the gubernatorial election to Democrat Tony Knowles.

Despite the disaster, Coghill hung on as AIP chairman for three more years. When he was asked to resign in 1997, Mark Chryson replaced him. Chryson pursued a dual policy of cozying up to secessionist and right-wing groups in Alaska and elsewhere while also attempting to replicate the AIP’s success with Hickel in infiltrating the mainstream.

Unlike some radical right-wingers, Chryson doesn’t put forward his ideas freighted with anger or paranoia. And in a state where defense of gun and property rights often takes on a real religious fervor, Chryson was able to present himself as a typical Alaskan.

He rose through party ranks by reducing the AIP’s platform to a single page that “90 percent of Alaskans could agree with.” This meant scrubbing the old platform of what Chryson called “racist language” while accommodating the state’s growing Christian right movement by emphasizing the AIP’s commitment to the “traditional family.”

“The AIP is very family-oriented,” Chryson explained. “We’re for the traditional family — daddy, mommy, kids — because we all know that it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. And we don’t care if Heather has two mommies. That’s not a traditional family.”

Chryson further streamlined the AIP’s platform by softening its secessionist language. Instead of calling for immediate separation from the United States, the platform now demands a vote on independence.

Yet Chryson maintains that his party remains committed to full independence. “The Alaskan Independence Party has got links to almost every independence-minded movement in the world,” Chryson exclaimed. “And Alaska is not the only place that’s about separation. There’s at least 30 different states that are talking about some type of separation from the United States.”

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Holo Lukaloa

10/10/2008 7:01:35 PM

This has meant rubbing shoulders and forging alliances with outright white supremacists and far-right theocrats, particularly those who dominate the proceedings at such gatherings as the North American Secessionist conventions, which AIP delegates have attended in recent years. The AIP’s affiliation with neo-Confederate organizations is motivated as much by ideological affinity as by organizational convenience. Indeed, Chryson makes no secret of his sympathy for the Lost Cause. “Should the Confederate states have been allowed to separate and go their peaceful ways?” Chryson asked rhetorically. “Yes. The War of Northern Aggression, or the Civil War, or the War Between the States — however you want to refer to it — was not about slavery, it was about states’ rights.”

Another far-right organization with whom the AIP has long been aligned is Howard Phillips’ militia-minded Constitution Party. The AIP has been listed as the Constitution Party’s state affiliate since the late 1990s, and it has endorsed the Constitution Party’s presidential candidates (Michael Peroutka and Chuck Baldwin) in the past two elections.

The Constitution Party boasts an openly theocratic platform that reads, “It is our goal to limit the federal government to its delegated, enumerated, Constitutional functions and to restore American jurisprudence to its original Biblical common-law foundations.” In its 1990s incarnation as the U.S. Taxpayers Party, it was on the front lines in promoting the “militia” movement, and a significant portion of its membership comprises former and current militia members.

At its 1992 convention, the AIP hosted both Phillips — the USTP’s presidential candidate — and militia-movement leader Col. James “Bo” Gritz, who was campaigning for president under the banner of the far-right Populist Party. According to Chryson, AIP regulars heavily supported Gritz, but the party deferred to Phillips’ presence and issued no official endorsements.

In Wasilla, the AIP became powerful by proxy — because of Chryson and Stoll’s alliance with Sarah Palin. Chryson and Stoll had found themselves in constant opposition to policies of Wasilla’s Democratic mayor, who started his three-term, nine-year tenure in 1987. By 1992, Chryson and Stoll had begun convening regular protests outside City Council. Their demonstrations invariably involved grievances against any and all forms of “socialist government,” from city planning to public education. Stoll shared Chryson’s conspiratorial views: “The rumor was that he had wrapped his guns in plastic and buried them in his yard so he could get them after the New World Order took over,” Stein told a reporter.

Chryson did not trust Palin when she joined the City Council in 1992. He claimed that she was handpicked by Democratic City Council leaders and by Wasilla’s Democratic mayor, John Stein, to rubber-stamp their tax hike proposals. “When I first met her,” he said, “I thought she was extremely left. But I’ve watched her slowly as she’s become more pronounced in her conservative ideology.”

Palin was well aware of Chryson’s views. “She knew my beliefs,” Chryson said. “The entire state knew my beliefs. I wasn’t afraid of being on the news, on camera speaking my views.”

But Chryson believes she trusted his judgment because he accurately predicted what life on the City Council would be like. “We were telling her, ‘This is probably what’s going to happen,’” he said. “‘The city is going to give this many people raises, they’re going to pave everybody’s roads, and they’re going to pave the City Council members’ roads.’ We couldn’t have __scripted it better because everything we predicted came true.”

After intense evangelizing by Chryson and his allies, they claimed Palin as a convert. “When she started taking her job seriously,” Chryson said, “the people who put her in as the rubber stamp found out the hard way that she was not going to go their way.” In 1994, Sarah Palin attended the AIP’s statewide convention. In 1995, her husband, Todd, changed his voter registration to AIP. Except for an interruption of a few months, he would remain registered was an AIP member until 2002, when he changed his registration to undeclared.

In 1996, Palin decided to run against John Stein as the Republican candidate for mayor of Wasilla. While Palin pushed back against Stein’s policies, particularly those related to funding public works, Chryson said he and Steve Stoll prepared the groundwork for her mayoral campaign.

Chryson and Stoll viewed Palin’s ascendancy as a vehicle for their own political ambitions. “She got support from these guys,” Stein remarked. “I think smart politicians never utter those kind of radical things, but they let other people do it for them. I never recall Sarah saying she supported the militia or taking a public stand like that. But these guys were definitely behind Sarah, thinking she was the more conservative choice.”

“They worked behind the scenes,” said Stein. “I think they had a lot of influence in terms of helping with the back-scatter negative campaigning.”

Indeed, Chryson boasted that he and his allies urged Palin to focus her campaign on slashing character-based attacks. For instance, Chryson advised Palin to paint Stein as a sexist who had told her “to just sit there and look pretty” while she served on Wasilla’s City Council. Though Palin never made this accusation, her 1996 campaign for mayor was the most negative Wasilla residents had ever witnessed.

While Palin played up her total opposition to the sales tax and gun control — the two hobgoblins of the AIP — mailers spread throughout the town portraying her as “the Christian candidate,” a subtle suggestion that Stein, who is Lutheran, might be Jewish. “I watched that campaign unfold, bringing a level of slime our community hadn’t seen until then,” recalled Phil Munger, a local music teacher who counts himself as a close friend of Stein.

“This same group [Stoll and Chryson] also [publicly] challenged me on whether my wife and I were married because she had kept her maiden name,” Stein bitterly recalled. “So we literally had to produce a marriage certificate. And as I recall, they said, ‘Well, you could have forged that.’”

When Palin won the election, the men who had once shouted anti-government slogans outside City Hall now had a foothold inside the mayor’s office. Palin attempted to pay back her newfound pals during her first City Council meeting as mayor. In that meeting, on Oct. 14, 1996, she appointed Stoll to one of the City Council’s two newly vacant seats. But Palin was blocked by the single vote of then-Councilman Nick Carney, who had endured countless rancorous confrontations with Stoll and considered him a “violent” influence on local politics. Though Palin considered consulting attorneys about finding another means of placing Stoll on the council, she was ultimately forced to back down and accept a compromise candidate.

Emboldened by his nomination by Mayor Palin, Stoll later demanded she fire Wasilla’s museum director, John Cooper, a personal enemy he longed to sabotage. Palin obliged, eliminating Cooper’s position in short order. “Gotcha, Cooper!” Stoll told the deposed museum director after his termination, as Cooper told a reporter for the New York Times. “And it only cost me a campaign contribution.” Stoll, who donated $1,000 to Palin’s mayoral campaign, did not respond to numerous requests for an interview. Palin has blamed budget concerns for Cooper’s departure.

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Holo Lukaloa

10/10/2008 7:03:29 PM

The following year, when Carney proposed a local gun-control measure, Palin organized with Chryson to smother the nascent plan in its cradle. Carney’s proposed ordinance would have prohibited residents from carrying guns into schools, bars, hospitals, government offices and playgrounds. Infuriated by the proposal that Carney viewed as a common-sense public-safety measure, Chryson and seven allies stormed a July 1997 council meeting.

With the bill still in its formative stages, Carney was not even ready to present it to the council, let alone conduct public hearings on it. He and other council members objected to the ad-hoc hearing as “a waste of time.” But Palin — in plain violation of council rules and norms — insisted that Chryson testify, stating, according to the minutes, that “she invites the public to speak on any issue at any time.”

When Carney tried later in the meeting to have the ordinance discussed officially at the following regular council meeting, he couldn’t even get a second. His proposal died that night, thanks to Palin and her extremist allies.

“A lot of it was the ultra-conservative far right that is against everything in government, including taxes,” recalled Carney. “A lot of it was a personal attack on me as being anti-gun, and a personal attack on anybody who deigned to threaten their authority to carry a loaded firearm wherever they pleased. That was the tenor of it. And it was being choreographed by Steve Stoll and the mayor.”

Asked if he thought it was Palin who had instigated the turnout, he replied: “I know it was.”

By Chryson’s account, he and Palin also worked hand-in-glove to slash property taxes and block a state proposal that would have taken money for public programs from the Permanent Fund Dividend, or the oil and gas fund that doles out annual payments to citizens of Alaska. Palin endorsed Chryson’s unsuccessful initiative to move the state Legislature from Juneau to Wasilla. She also lent her support to Chryson’s crusade to alter the Alaska Constitution’s language on gun rights so cities and counties could not impose their own restrictions. “It took over 10 years to get that language written in,” Chryson said. “But Sarah [Palin] was there supporting it.”

“With Sarah as a mayor,” said Chryson, “there were a number of times when I just showed up at City Hall and said, ‘Hey, Sarah, we need help.’ I think there was only one time when I wasn’t able to talk to her and that was because she was in a meeting.”

Chryson says the door remains open now that Palin is governor. (Palin’s office did not respond to Salon’s request for an interview.) While Palin has been more circumspect in her dealings with groups like the AIP as she has risen through the political ranks, she has stayed in touch.

When Palin ran for governor in 2006, marketing herself as a fresh-faced reformer determined to crush the GOP’s ossified power structure, she made certain to appear at the AIP’s state convention. To burnish her maverick image, she also tapped one-time AIP member and born-again Republican Walter Hickel as her campaign co-chair. Hickel barnstormed the state for Palin, hailing her support for an “all-Alaska” liquefied gas pipeline, a project first promoted in 2002 by an AIP gubernatorial candidate named Nels Anderson. When Palin delivered her victory speech on election night, Hickel stood beaming by her side. “I made her governor,” he boasted afterward. Two years later, Hickel has endorsed Palin’s bid for vice president.

Just months before Palin burst onto the national stage as McCain’s vice-presidential nominee, she delivered a videotaped address to the AIP’s annual convention. Her message was scrupulously free of secessionist rhetoric, but complementary nonetheless. “I share your party’s vision of upholding the Constitution of our great state,” Palin told the assembly of AIP delegates. “My administration remains focused on reining in government growth so individual liberty can expand. I know you agree with that … Keep up the good work and God bless you.”

When Palin became the Republican vice-presidential nominee, her attendance of the 1994 and 2006 AIP conventions and her husband’s membership in the party (as well as Palin’s videotaped welcome to the AIP’s 2008 convention) generated a minor controversy. Chryson claimed, however, that Sarah and Todd Palin never even played a minor role in his party’s internal affairs. “Sarah’s never been a member of the Alaskan Independence Party,” Chryson insisted. “Todd has, but most of rural Alaska has too. I never saw him at a meeting. They were at one meeting I was at. Sarah said hello, but I didn’t pay attention because I was taking care of business.”

But whether the Palins participated directly in shaping the AIP’s program is less relevant than the extent to which they will implement that program. Chryson and his allies have demonstrated just as much interest in grooming major party candidates as they have in putting forward their own people. At a national convention of secessionist groups in 2007, AIP vice chairman Dexter Clark announced that his party would seek to “infiltrate” the Democratic and Republican parties with candidates sympathetic to its hard-right, secessionist agenda. “You should use that tactic. You should infiltrate,” Clark told his audience of neo-Confederates, theocrats and libertarians. “Whichever party you think in that area you can get something done, get into that party. Even though that party has its problems, right now that is the only avenue.”

Clark pointed to Palin’s political career as the model of a successful infiltration. “There’s a lot of talk of her moving up,” Clark said of Palin. “She was a member [of the AIP] when she was mayor of a small town, that was a nonpartisan job. But to get along and to go along she switched to the Republican Party … She is pretty well sympathetic because of her membership.”

Clark’s assertion that Palin was once a card-carrying AIP member was swiftly discredited by the McCain campaign, which produced records showing she had been a registered Republican since 1988. But then why would Clark make such a statement? Why did he seem confident that Palin was a true-blue AIP activist burrowing within the Republican Party? The most salient answer is that Palin was once so thoroughly embedded with AIP figures like Chryson and Stoll and seemed so enthusiastic about their agenda, Clark may have simply assumed she belonged to his party.

Now, Palin is a household name and her every move is scrutinized by the Washington press corps. She can no longer afford to kibitz with secessionists, however instrumental they may have been to her meteoric ascendancy. This does not trouble her old AIP allies. Indeed, Chryson is hopeful that Palin’s inauguration will also represent the start of a new infiltration.

“I’ve had my issues but she’s still staying true to her core values,” Chryson concluded. “Sarah’s friends don’t all agree with her, but do they respect her? Do they respect her ideology and her values? Definitely.”

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never never band

10/10/2008 7:06:15 PM

well, ya see Gregg, thats all allegation and smear....
Ayers is not about Radicalizing children..
Ayers is a reformed man and a Brilliant man, a true hero of community organizing and education reform.

What he did in the past was wrong, the Times were intense and the War was a horror....I did a radio program with two Vietnam Vterans last night who are now working for Veterans For Peace. Really I come away from talking to Vietnam Vets with only one oppinion, we dont know shit, we have really no right to say anything to these guys about the war and theior postitions...all I can think to say is "thank you guys....and I'm so, so sorry"
You know Ayers He turned himself in, did no jail time...I'm sure you know the story.
Today I'd be proud to be his friend because I believe he stands for what is good about us.
seriously...

hmmm..

now, how about Liddy:?
are you on that team?
this man is a truly unrepentant political criminal who was willing to bomb the Brookings institute and take US citizens as political prisoners, willing to mrder a Janitor ...and worse.

I mean really, if we're gonna drag up the radical actions of the Vietnam era lets be fair..
Is Liddy reformed? He's never indicated any regret ad McCain LOVES him. thinks he's an American hero...

Do you think that Gregg?
be honest for once.

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10/10/2008 7:09:24 PM

With all the attempts to smear Sarah Palin Holo there seems to be one small detail that has been overlooked..

http://www.newmediajournal.us/daily_columns/10092008.htm

Obama Held Membership in Socialist New Party
The New Media Journal ^ | 10/09/2008

Posted on Thu Oct 9 09:55:06 2008 by The_Tick_01

Evidence is continuing to surface that indicates Barack Obama was a member of the Socialist New Party, an organization headquartered in Chicago during the mid-1990s. The New Party was formed to serve as a in Chicago by the Democrat Socialists of America in 1992 to serve as a central coordinating body for various Socialist Party activities in the region. It survived until 2000, when it disintegrated into its various factions. The Organization experienced a bump in membership in the late 1990s but was all but defunct by 2000 in part because of a Supreme Court decision that ruled the organizations "fusion" reform platform as unconstitutional.

The document uncovered by a variety of internet publications including Politically Drunk on Power, the Jawa Report, No Quarter, NewsBusters and Libertarian Republican, shows documents, webpages, that had been scrubbed from the New Party’s website but that had been archived by the non-profit Internet Archive Organization, that prove beyond question Obama's membership in the Party. One document states: "Illinois: Three NP members won Democratic Primaries last Spring and face-off against Republican opponents on election day: Danny Davis (US House), Barack Obama (State Senate), Patricia Martin (Cook County Judiciary)."

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Holo Lukaloa

10/10/2008 7:12:00 PM

Palin has more dirt on her little fingernail than Obama has in his lifetime. :>)

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10/10/2008 7:12:04 PM

"Ayers is a reformed man and a Brilliant man, a true hero of community organizing and education reform."

You are clearly insane.

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never never band

10/10/2008 7:22:09 PM ---- Updated 10/10/2008 7:24:39 PM

(some great quotes)

* "This is a time not only of great stress and oppression and authoritarianism, and a kind of rising incipient American form of fascism, and what the government counts on, what the powerful count on, is that we will stay quiet. It's the idea that we can tolerate these intolerable things without screaming, without somehow coming out, joining up and coming out and saying something. It's what they count on in terms of keeping things under control."
* "Empire resurrected and unapologetic, war without end, an undefined enemy that's supposed to be a rallying point for a new kind of energized jingoistic patriotism, unprecedented and unapologetic military expansion, white supremacy changing its form, but essentially intact, attacks on women and girls, violent attacks, growing surveillance in every sphere of our lives, on and on and on, the targeting of gay and lesbian people as a kind of a scapegoating gesture to keep our minds off of what's really happening."

"Even though we think of ourselves as political, we weren't politicians. We were people who had a moral vision of what was possible. And when we talk, for example, about health care, about peace, we're talking a language of ethics, not a language of instrumentalism or opportunism, or what we might get. So we have to speak in a language that's large and generous and encompassing. And then we have to act."

W Ayers.

yes, I'd be proud to be this mans friend..

Of course I'm a leftist Gregg, I'm so far to the left of Barack he looks like a centrist to me...
But I love that guy too, I think he really wants whats good for the nation and I think he wants to be a president for everyone, not just democrats but everyone and I respect that.

I get it that my views are not representative of the Majority and since I love Democracy I get it that my views should not prevail, but they should be part of the dialog.

I don't think you like Democracy Gregg, I don't think you understand what we're doing here.
It's not about you or I getting our way because Neither of us represents a majority...Our views are outside the majority by quite a margin...

huh?

Now I believe that Barack truly wants to represent the Majority, and that's why he will win....
and that's exactly as it should be.

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never never band

10/10/2008 7:38:06 PM

Now Gregg....lets talk about G Gordan Liddy!!
C,Mon ya big chicken...

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10/10/2008 9:50:30 PM ---- Updated 10/10/2008 10:08:03 PM

"Even though we think of ourselves as political, we weren't politicians. We were people who had a moral vision of what was possible. And when we talk, for example, about health care, about peace, we're talking a language of ethics, not a language of instrumentalism or opportunism, or what we might get. So we have to speak in a language that's large and generous and encompassing. And then we have to act."

W Ayers.

Just words moron, and his actions speak louder than his words. Like his role in what amounts to the theft of 160 million dollars from the Anneberg Trust, the bombs intended to murder a judge and his family and poisoning the minds of impressionable youth under the guise of improving education. He's more dangerous now than he's ever been.
-

"yes, I'd be proud to be this mans friend.."

You a complete idiot..

-

"Of course I'm a leftist Gregg, "

Thanks for acknowledging the fact you're a complete idiot.

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never never band

10/10/2008 10:21:08 PM

coward

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Holo Lukaloa

10/10/2008 11:08:51 PM

Sterling you are a sheep. When the rightwing media was pushing Wright, you were about Wright, when they were pushing Palin, you were about Palin. Now they're pushing Ayers and you're about him. Maybe when Obama wins you'll be about Obama. We can only hope.

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10/10/2008 11:37:49 PM ---- Updated 10/10/2008 11:46:29 PM

Oh christ will it ever end?

Yup dead right, but this could be really funny if it was done in 3 minutes.

I failk to see the point of these pre election "debates". They get asked a question then ignore that - make a quick point to it - then ramble on about middle class tax cuts yes/no or Iraq war stop it/heroes.

Utter idiocy.

It is the most fucking stupid thing I've seen in years.

It's not a debate in any sense. It's just a long advert.

I saw the first ... interesting... I saw the second... er you've both done all this... The last one, remember?

I'd say USA deserves what it gets but sadly the rest of the world suffers from USA idiocy.

I don't think that's going to happen much longer.

The USA is seen as a fool across the world for years now - an utter baffon - a man who doesn't even understand what he's reading from the prompts. But aside from him America is seen as greedy, fat, ignorant, and amazingly thick. Oh and also the entire global warming problem. Stop trying to get other people involved - dude it's YOU.

That's thanks to Bush - a monkey at the controls of a spaceship and he's steered it at the sun.

America, you are in SO much trouble.

We all really fucking hate you out here in the real world (not flat, by the way).

As a UK man I feel ashamed that my ancestors dumped a load of stupid people there and they've grown up to an entire country of stupid people.

FIGHT FOR INDEPENDENCE!

Yeah like USA was on our list of interests... get real. You got 20 troops resistance only because you insulted the Queen. Had to make a big war out of it.

From then on America has behaved no differently. The insecure playgound bully.

Time to grow up and join the educated and mild-mannered world.

Well I'm sure there's plenty there to get some people annoyed.

Personally I couldn't care less about any of that crap.

Good evening.

peter.

[PS the clever and resourceful people set up Canada. Nice]

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Diane Hulfnagel

10/10/2008 11:56:25 PM

crashtv wrote "FIGHT FOR INDEPENDENCE!

Yeah like USA was on our list of interests... get real. You got 20 troops resistance only because you insulted the Queen. Had to make a big war out of it."

What Queen was that? George III? :)

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10/10/2008 11:56:27 PM

Obama.

But how absurd is this myspace page? I just searched "president" to see what came up.

This was one. Amazing.
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=170618801

How fucking dare you.

Don't you think? Fucking media people. They're utter shit.

Back to music now thanks.

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10/10/2008 11:58:35 PM ---- Updated 10/10/2008 11:59:54 PM

(typo)

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10/10/2008 11:58:57 PM ---- Updated 10/11/2008 12:07:07 AM

@ Dianne

crashtv wrote "FIGHT FOR INDEPENDENCE!

Yeah like USA was on our list of interests... get real. You got 20 troops resistance only because you insulted the Queen. Had to make a big war out of it."

What Queen was that? George III? :)

USA was accidentally found by some Portugese fella. And what else has Portugal ever done? Yup nothing - keep yer head down for starting all this :)

Erm, also add crashtv to your top bands. Why not?

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Diane Hulfnagel

10/11/2008 12:05:26 AM

Just average, which is obviously enough when in discourse with a proud UK man. :)

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satch

10/11/2008 3:08:49 AM

As a spectator to these political threads, I agree with Peter that most of it is a complete waste of space, in that very few of you actually address the points raised by others, particularly those of differing viewpoints, you merely spout on your own rhetoric. In that sense, it really isn't informative or debate... it isn't going to change anyone's mind because it's merely indoctrinated claptrap!

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10/11/2008 4:42:06 AM

Here's something worthwhile and above average intelligence to further add to the Palin miasma ...

Is it just me , or has anyone noticed how Palin is always wearing black ? It's just fashionably wrong ... if she's gonna run round playing mother goddess to the powers that be don't you think she ought to make a bit more of an effort to disguise her slick dark shades perfectly tailored by none other than satan himself ? What's next ?! A red sash ? How she mocks us !

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Conversation Suicide

10/11/2008 4:58:23 AM

she is INDEED my dark supreme lord satan. my fellow followers of this GREAT Beelzebub, have LONG-awaited her VICTORIOUS rising up on Planet Earth. HAIL the Palin-Pan! HAIL HER NOW.... ON your KNEES mutha fuckas! The BEAST spoken of long ago is HERE.

oh yeah.... uh.... god bless america, and shit.

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Phlegm

10/11/2008 5:49:28 AM

I hope that was meant to be humorous. Because I am just, well, quite frankly, offended!
Sarah Palin is GOD's GREATEST gift to these beloved United States, and it is simply a SIN to characterize her as some type of demon or devil. SHAME ON YOU!

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Kevin White

10/11/2008 5:56:34 AM ---- Updated 10/11/2008 6:05:32 AM

I googled "U.K." with "important"

Nothing came back. It was weird.

Google even asked:

Did you mean "who gives a fuck what the U.K. thinks?"

lol ...

You want to see the U.S. get serious about something? Just challenge us ... give us a common goal or a common enemy. We unite something fierce.

We're all about togetherness when need be. We're all about beating the shit out of each other during elections. It's always been this way.

That said, we're not in love w/ ourselves these days either ... the current economic alarm being the outward manifestations of said wake up call.

We'll fix it ... regardless of what the rest of the world thinks ... for if they think otherwise, they don't know us very well.

We're chaotic at times, but amazingly resilient ... and bright ... nevermind the 20% or so that still believe the sun revolves around the earth. We call them Texans.

Anyways ... speaking of Texans who still believe the sun revolves around the earth.

We've had a tough last eight years ...

Seems the great uniter was a greater divider.

K-

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Kevin White

10/11/2008 6:24:10 AM ---- Updated 10/11/2008 6:25:23 AM

btw ... I thought I'd share this:

I said this election was about putting intelligence back into the White House.

Kev-

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satch

10/11/2008 6:55:16 AM

PAhaha - excellent image Kev.

Re your previous post, all I can say is relevance is relative.

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Kevin White

10/11/2008 7:10:29 AM

Re my previous post, Satch ...

I was kidding ... but alternately pointing out that folks in the world shouldn't be going around talking smack about the U.S.

... or we'll talk smack back.

:^D

K-

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Susan Raven

10/11/2008 7:12:50 AM

Kidding, not kidding, smack, turn the other cheek??? :)

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satch

10/11/2008 7:15:30 AM

lol @ Susan - you beat me to it!

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Kevin White

10/11/2008 7:26:57 AM ---- Updated 10/11/2008 7:34:31 AM

???

Must be a private in-joke others don't quite get.

:^D

K-

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satch

10/11/2008 7:42:02 AM

Maybe just language barriers... it's meant to be funny... shrug... whatever... :)

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Kevin White

10/11/2008 7:46:04 AM

I assumed one of the two ... it passed right over my head.

... which isn't saying much but ...

:^D

K-

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Cat Ize

10/11/2008 9:02:59 PM

thanks kev - some one had to say it bro

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