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Holo Lukaloa
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2/5/2009 7:30:03 PM
Asinine Republicans would prefer economy going further into the depths than Obama succeeding.
This party with their leaders Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh obviously have taken no responsibility for sinking the country into the toilet in the last 8 years, they still stupidly think they know what's best. Looks like bi-partisanship was a foolish idea when dealing with a bunch of hardcore right wing clowns who care more about their next reelection than whether or not we have the next Great Depression.
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2/5/2009 8:20:28 PM
No Holo, bi-partisanship is still a good idea if Obama & co will get on board with what the public really wants and that's to keep more of the money they earn.
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Holo Lukaloa
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2/5/2009 9:28:30 PM
Why try to work with idiots with the same exact ideas that put the ship underwater in the first place? who seemingly don't give a crap about the country at all.
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2/5/2009 9:48:34 PM
The Bush Administration had little if anything to do with previous Republican Administrations. Fiscal responsibility flew out the window, our foreign policy was reckless at best but the principles of limited govt and low taxes are still valid.
The best bailout are bridge loans for the auto companies, a income tax holiday and slash capitol gains for the next few years and Obama can spend the rest of his term playing golf.., the economy will right itself with Obama being swept into office for a 2nd term.
As Ronald Reagan once said.. "Government is not the solution, it is the problem.."
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The Man With No Band
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2/5/2009 9:54:48 PM
---- Updated 2/5/2009 10:10:40 PM
Ronald Reagan was a complete Bozo ...
... and I don't see the economy "righting" itself ... Taxes are not the reason we are losing 500,000 jobs a month in this country ....
Reagan was a Scab and a disgrace to our country ... Government grew more under his and Bushes regimes than any two Presidents we've had ...
He thought Government had every right to bust the unions and lower the working mans wages, cut his benefits and give HUGE tax breaks to the Greedy Corporations that took American Jobs over-seas ...
He also gave weapons to the very people we are fighting today ...
His trickle down economics was a joke ... and his War on Drugs is the biggest fiasco this country has ever seen ...
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2/5/2009 10:11:40 PM
Reagan had to deal with a far worse economic situation than we're living in now and at the end of his second term he more than doubled tax revenues to the govt by lowering taxes. I lived through those times, I remember entire communities living under bridges and on the street. It sure wasn't fun but Ronald Reagan was the right president for those times.., Obama would do well to learn from him.
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The Man With No Band
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2/5/2009 10:15:35 PM
I was earning more when Reagan went into office than when he left and I was laid off for the first time in my life under his watch after he broke our union and we took massive pay cuts and benefit concessions that were supposed to "save" our jobs ... I also lived through those times ...
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Holo Lukaloa
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2/5/2009 10:16:09 PM
Reagan actually was the one who started deregulating everything and caused the 5 percent richest people to own this country. He was the one who gave corporations the power to destroy most of the small businesses in America, that turned every city into the land of chain stores.
The things that are being characterized as 'pork' by the Republicans are not pork at all. They're still talking about that planned parenthood thing day and night as their number one example yet it was removed early on.
The American people and all the governors want a stimulus and need it soon. The Republicans simply want to make themselves politically viable again, don't have a thought about what is needed to turn things around.
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Fade to Black
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2/5/2009 10:26:28 PM
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose...
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The Man With No Band
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2/5/2009 10:29:35 PM
"Reagan had to deal with a far worse economic situation than we're living in now "
Dood ... open your eyes .....
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The Man With No Band
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2/5/2009 10:39:11 PM
I agree Larree ... so we got a guy in office that wants to fix things ... the problem is there are these bozo's in the way ... let the man have the reins and see what happens ... We are in such deep doo doo now, why not let the man try what he thinks will work ? ... If he is wrong then we will soon know ... If he is right we can all be relieved a bit ... but throwing up road blocks isn't helping anyone ...
We are so far in debt as a country now that debt don't mean squat anymore ... I'd just as soon be comfortable when the ship goes down ...
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Conversation Suicide
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2/5/2009 11:04:57 PM
here here --- I support an ecomomic Stimulus Package for all those with incomes UNDER $100,000 .... Paid for by all those making OVER $100,000 PER year....
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kurtkurtley
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2/6/2009 6:20:42 AM
Ah, Phlegm, if you made $110,000 a year would you say this? Not a poke at you, just to point out that there is no easy solution, nobody wants to give up what they've got. The rich guy feel every bit as entitled to his as the poor guy.
Also, I see no likelihood of bipartisanship. It really hasn't happened since WWII. And even then there were some dissenters.
Bailing out failed companies, banks, etc. seems counter-intuitive. Citing dead presidents for their successes and sins won't solve a thing. Would $900 billion spread over the US taxpayers, over a set period of time (five, ten years maybe) make more sense?
It looks like a rush to do "something" may not be the best way out. I wish the new president and his administration success, not for him but for the country he now represents.
And let's not forget that, like the Great Depression, this is not an American problem, this is a world problem. Most Europeans were far worse off than Americans during the Depression. It's what lead to the despots, that lead to the war.
Everything is connected, everything is intertwined. Pull on a thread very carefully, the whole may be at risk.
My parents were children of the Great Depression. I hope to God that my grandchildren are not.
-Kurt
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Hop On Pop
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2/6/2009 6:37:37 AM
First off:
Holo, you introduce the topic with a combative tone, which is stupid.
Second, you call Palin and Limbaugh the leaders of the Republican party? That's also stupid.
Next:
If it were a perfect world, we would all like to keep all of our money and have everybody living good, fulfilling lives with no worries. But, unfortunately, that is not the case. I think that there needs to be some sort of happy medium here... it cannot be a pure Right Wing agenda, nor can it be a pure Left Wing one.
I do think that Obama will settle back into the middle, which is where is naturally resides anyway. But I also think that he sees the need for quick, drastic action which is what is pissing off the Right. Because, he leans left, from the middle. But, in times like now, when drastic action is needed, he is leaning more drastically.
But, God bless him for getting everyone's attention and not just sitting on his ass.
He wants to be Roosevelt and he wants to be Lincoln. But he just needs to get back to being Barack, a brilliant political mind, himself.
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Holo Lukaloa
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2/6/2009 6:41:12 AM
Pay attention, Rush and Sarah ARE the leaders of the Republican party.
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Kevin White
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2/6/2009 6:44:35 AM
---- Updated 2/6/2009 6:47:36 AM
From the notably liberal LA Times Editorial Staff:
The Nation needs Jobs, NOT a Political Agenda
This package, as is, has more pork than a porcine slaughterhouse. That's not where our money should be directed right now.
It's money we don't have. I support fiscally responsible expenditures, mindless of party affiliation.
This isn't it.
K-
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Holo Lukaloa
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2/6/2009 7:17:16 AM
That article is really stupid, Kevin. Saving jobs is basically the same thing as creating them, and how could money being spent on better teachers be considered pork?
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2/6/2009 7:20:24 AM
---- Updated 2/6/2009 7:48:19 AM
"Reagan had to deal with a far worse economic situation than we're living in now "
Dood ... open your eyes .....
I I don't think Reagan would have ever allowed the trade imbalance we now have with China nor would we even be trading with them because of their current govt. His deregulation policies have come back to haunt us but he never would have supported exporting our manufacturing base overseas or allowing guest workers to take jobs away from Americans. His policies during the 80's might be blamed for that but that was never his intent, his duty was to the average American from what I recall.
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Kevin White
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2/6/2009 7:25:36 AM
I'll let the article speak to that, Holo:
But too many of the items have little apparent connection with economic growth -- witness the nearly $5 billion for prevention, wellness, "comparative effectiveness research" and training in the health field, the $2.1 billion for Head Start and the $300 million to improve teacher quality, just to name a few examples from the 647-page House bill. Other provisions, such as the $64 billion for preventing layoffs at schools, colleges and "high priority" state programs, are about saving jobs, not creating them. In the short term, there may be no difference between preventing job cuts and increasing payrolls -- one prevents a bad situation from worsening, the other makes a good situation better. But an investment this large should pay long-term dividends by increasing productivity, and that's hard to do when so much of the money is going toward maintaining the status quo.
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Holo Lukaloa
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2/6/2009 7:28:45 AM
I don't care what their rationale is, the definition of pork has moved at least 135 degrees more inclusive since the last administration.
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Kevin White
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2/6/2009 7:31:19 AM
No one can excuse pork, whether it be GWB or BHO ...
It's pork ... and everyone knows it when they see it.
Yes, I said pork ... although switch the last letter and it's the same thing.
:^D
K-
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Holo Lukaloa
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2/6/2009 7:35:25 AM
Money spent on education is always good, and it's being applied to jobs as well.
Picking apart this stimulus is a game, obstructionist. Enough people from both parties have succeeded in getting a lot of items cut out and there was really little in there that was that bad in the first place.
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Kevin White
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2/6/2009 7:36:50 AM
Which is exactly how our democracy should work ...
By the time this is finished, ALL "mutually agreed upon" pork should be stripped from it.
K-
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Conversation Suicide
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2/6/2009 1:43:07 PM
---- Updated 2/6/2009 1:47:16 PM
yup. Kurt If I made $300,000 a year I'd say this.
1 make barely $18,000 per year, and am trying to support a family of 8. And that's WITH government assistance of FOOD Stamps...
SINGLE INCOME.
I work my poor little ASS off.
WE NEED TO REDISTRIBUTE the WEALTH.
It is GROTESQUE !!!
Really, anybody who makes over $20,000 per year, and only supports ONE person, should pay into the pot to help those less fortunate, in my opinion.
I bet that EXTREMELY small income includes YOU!
Kurt, make no mistake, thanks to Reagan AND both BUSH Administrations (with little help from Clinton), we are NOW in the beginnings of a FULL-ON Depression.
If you make more than $30,000 per year single, or $50,000 per year -family income, then you probably are NOT aware of this, because you're in the top 40 % who are "relatively" RICH.
The poverty levels used by corporations, the government & non-profit organizations are WAY above what most people are actually earning.
WAKE the FUCK UP!
-pHLeGm
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Gary Stockton
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2/6/2009 7:32:51 PM
Obama's getting stuff moving and getting stuff done, even admitting when he makes mistakes. How long did it take W to admit he made a few? 8 long miserable years, that's a long time. Personally, I'm still hopeful and optimistic about the economy. I took a cut in pay recently and have been working while I'm sick to keep it afloat. I'm stressed, but I think the media and the country needs to stop fixating on stimulus this or bailout that and just work as hard as we can you know, survivor mode. The last thing we need now is partisan bickering and it looks like Barack is going to have none of it.
I think we are in better shape now with Barack Obama in charge. I shudder to think of what things would be like with McCain and Palin trying to sort this mess out, but that's just my perspective. All I have seen people like Rush and Palin do since Barack became our President is will him to fail, or run around doing interviews covering their asses for their stupidity or shortcomings instead of getting behind him and pitching in. They are so cynical and destructive, they only think of themselves.
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Holo Lukaloa
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2/6/2009 9:46:58 PM
The Republicans have been ridiculous. How dare McCain go off like he has, everybody knows he is clueless. He said the fundamentals of the economy are strong!
I guess it's good this happened so Obama doesn't waste much more energy on trying to drag that dead grasping party along for the ride over the long haul.
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Conversation Suicide
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2/6/2009 10:26:05 PM
---- Updated 2/6/2009 10:32:19 PM
There is NO reason people with a higher education, and two degrees, should be at the POVERTY level or LOWER in the United States of America.
We are in a FULL-ON Depression, folks!
WAKE UP!!!!!! WAKE The FUCK UP !!!
Redistribute the Wealth.
It's not for me.....SHIT I"m leaving this fucked up imperialist, capitalistic Country as soon as I can, and moving to ENGLAND.
REDISTRIBUTE the Wealth to the VERY Hard Working, POVERTY-class in AMERICA.
The FILTHY RICH are FAT & Bloated and STAINED with the blood of the working class.
ONLY TWO Levels of income now THE POOR & THE RICH.
The middle-class has been swallowed up by greedy, Corporate America's CEO's, Land Owners, UNIONS and OLD MONEY Millionaires & Billionaires....
-"from each according to their WORK, To each according to their NEED..."
Karl Marx
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Psyche's Muse
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2/16/2009 2:17:43 AM
What we want is not a State of drones but a State which gives to everyone that to which on the basis of his own activity he has a right. He who refuses to do honest work shall not be a citizen of the State. The State is not a plantation where the interests of foreign capital are supreme. Capital is not the master of the State, but its servant. Therefore the State must not be brought into dependence on international loan capital. And if anyone believes that that cannot be avoided, then do not let him be surprised that no one is ready to give his life for this State. Further, that greatest injustice must be corrected which today still weighs heavily upon our people and upon almost all peoples. If in a State only he who does honest work is a citizen, then everyone has the right to demand that in his old age he shall be kept free from care and want. That would mean the realization of the greatest social achievement.
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2/16/2009 4:27:50 AM
"He who refuses to do honest work shall not be a citizen of the State."
Huh???
Explanation please..
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2/16/2009 5:50:40 AM
Larree.., what do you think the odds are that the person who made the following statement has never done an honest day's work in their life???
"He who refuses to do honest work shall not be a citizen of the State.""
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Psyche's Muse
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2/17/2009 1:01:13 PM
the "Capitalists" do no "Honest" work...
It is interesting to examine the life of these rich people. In their world there exists, as it were, democracy, which means the rule of the people by the people. Now the people must possess some means of giving expression to their thoughts or their wishes. Examining this problem more closely, we see that the people themselves have originally no convictions of their own. Their convictions are formed, of course, just as everywhere else. The decisive question is who enlightens the people, who educates them? In those countries, it is actually capital that rules; that is, nothing more than a clique of a few hundred men who possess untold wealth and, as a consequence of the peculiar structure of their national life, are more or less independent and free. They say: 'Here we have liberty.' By this they mean, above all, an uncontrolled economy, and by an uncontrolled economy, the freedom not only to acquire capital but to make absolutely free use of it. That means freedom from national control or control by the people both in the acquisition of capital and in its employment. This is really what they mean when they speak of liberty. These capitalists create their own press and then speak of the 'freedom of the press.'
In reality, every one of the newspapers has a master, and in every case this master is the capitalist, the owner. This master, not the editor, is the one who directs the policy of the paper. If the editor tries to write other than what suits the master, he is ousted the next day. This press, which is the absolutely submissive and characterless slave of the owners, molds public opinion. Public opinion thus mobilized by them is, in its turn, split up into political parties. The difference between these parties is small. You know them, of course - the old parties. They were always one and the same. A further point is that the elected officials actually form a community. For this reason, the opposition is really always the same, for on all essential matters in which the opposition has to make itself felt, the parties are always in agreement. They have one and the same conviction and through the medium of the press mold public opinion along corresponding lines.
I wish to put before you a few basic facts: The first is that in the capitalistic democratic world the most important principle of economy is that the people exist for trade and industry, and that these in turn exist for capital. We must reverse this principle by making capital exist for trade and industry, and trade and industry exist for the people. In other words, the people come first. Everything else is but a means to this end. When an economic system is not capable of feeding and clothing a people, then it is bad, regardless of whether a few hundred people say: 'As far as I am concerned it is good, excellent; my dividends are splendid.' I do not consider it possible in the long run for one man to work and toil for a whole year in return for ridiculous wages, while another jumps into an airplane once a year and pockets enormous sums. Such conditions are a disgrace.
The Capitalists reply: 'That is why our form of government is sacred to us.' I can well believe it, for that form of government certainly pays very well.. But whether it is sacred to the mass of the people as well is another matter. We have got to get rid of all this nonsense, which is merely veiled profiteering and even bribery.
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Kevin White
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2/17/2009 3:14:06 PM
Aside from the fact that I personally cannot take anons seriously, and I wonder why you don't just come out from behind the curtain ...
... this made sense.
And yet ... who are these bogeymen capitalists of whom it is spoken so harshly?
Are they all co-conspirators in a puppeteering of the masses? In a practical sense, how does one exercise such absolute control?
If I were to look for such, what industry would be first suspect of hatching such a plot?
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fly on the wall
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2/17/2009 6:40:34 PM
Psyches Muse isn't an anon, he's an artist here.
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The Man With No Band
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2/17/2009 10:16:57 PM
Psyches Muse is A damn good artist too ... and someone who actually knows what he is talking about ... He's been here around a long time ... just been in the shadows for awhile ...
Hey Mortamor ... nice to see you 'round !
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The Man With No Band
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2/17/2009 10:31:27 PM
Hey Holo ... you should change the title of this thread ... I'm assuming that is why it got booted from the front page ...
Everyone should read Psyches Muse's (M's) last post ... he hit the nail on the head
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The Man With No Band
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2/17/2009 11:11:23 PM
---- Updated 2/17/2009 11:12:12 PM
"The ONLY way we will ever get back on track, is to allow business to flourish. Period. Otherwise we are going right down the toilet, with President Obama doing the flushing."
Business ... is exactly why we are where we are today ...
Government isn't the one filling their pockets out of greed ...
Government isn't the one moving jobs over seas ...
Government isn't the one selling out ...
Business created this mess ... and they have the power to brainwash people into believing it is the governments fault ... WAKE UP !!!!!!!!
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/18/2009 12:57:07 AM
Mortamor--Hi!
Ewe hit the nail on the head, but it is hard for sheep to understand, when all they know comes out of a TV set or syndicated newspaper----
---just like the mouse on his little exercise wheel ----in his cage--- all good!!
Huge changes can only happen at times of great upheaval----at the moment the world view appears to be to prop up the "Failed" system-----when this fails as well change may begin to filter through---
----but it WILL take citizens marching on the streets to put fear into the corporates who 'own ' the politicians IMO!
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2/18/2009 4:06:19 AM
---- Updated 2/18/2009 4:07:28 AM
" the "Capitalists" do no "Honest" work... "
Actually they work much harder than the average person, pretty much non-stop from what I observe and the vast majority do in fact care about the average person on the street much more than anyone can possibly imagine.
But that's neither here or there at the moment. The Psychotic Muses of the world have been with us before, one of their more recent incarnations was enslaving all of Russia after murdering the entire upper strata of society. The final body count varies but from the Russian people themselves the final toll was at least 30 million dead.
And don't think they are not capable of doing the same in the USA because they are. And this will be the future each and everyone of you can look forward too..
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The Man With No Band
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2/18/2009 4:23:07 AM
You just don't get it do you Sterling ? ... It's about people ... not money ... you are a puppet being led by the money men's strings ....
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never never band
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2/18/2009 5:56:54 AM
Psyches Muse...that's about the best thing I've read on this board this year!
You're clear, your values are solid and your writing is great!
thanks..
Frater P.,
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Conversation Suicide
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2/18/2009 6:18:20 AM
---- Updated 2/18/2009 6:38:50 AM
Psyches Muse - You said it all better than I ever could.
Obviously you went further in college, or your own personal studies, in Business Economics, than I.
Thank you for coming in here as a RESPECTED voice, for ANTI-capitalism.....
Larree - I luv ya man, but you're so isolated in your Hollywood Home, from the ACTUAL poverty situation that is OUT there in the U.S.A., for MANY people.... $20,000 in TUCSON as a single person, is like making $60,000 in many parts of California as a SINGLE person, with no kids to care for.
I suspect my posts in these socio-economic/political discussions are often ignored because my inherrent poverty makes it appear that I am uneducated crap-mongerer.
Trust me, IF I could afford to go back for my Masters Degree, I would in a heartbeat. Unfortunately I still owe $40,000.00 from my LAST degree....
THIS country IS in a FULL-ON Depression. It will become apparent as the next couple of years roll on...
AND YES - Those who are WAY better off- well, Dammit - they WILL need to spread the wealth SOMEHOW, if things are to change for the better.
-pHLeGm
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2/19/2009 12:48:19 PM
---- Updated 2/19/2009 12:51:44 PM
"You just don't get it do you Sterling ? ... It's about people ... not money ... you are a puppet being led by the money men's strings ...."
You're right that it is about people, all the people as I see it and I do get it Sam. And when some moron blows in and starts making statements to the effect that only people who do "honest work" will be allowed to live in the coming Utopian State that really begs proper interpretation.
According to Psyches Muse's twisted logic these people didn't do honest work either. And this is what happened to them..
http://www.ibiblio.org/expo/soviet.exhibit/famine.html
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2/19/2009 2:22:15 PM
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Psyche's Muse
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2/19/2009 4:45:05 PM
Sorry people, but Kevin White is right! My prior posts were not "quite" of my own making. Other than the fact of my changing some wording, making it contemporary and such, they were collages created by me from the writings of a Socialist thinker. He, as some of you have noted, has a great command of the material. I am no product of "higher learning"... never went to college. I've been "home schooled" so to speak.
Sterling, those images are a horror. I know. Do you know that Communism is really an extension of the very ones who encourage and defend Capitalism today. The Capitalists financed the Communists from the very beginning! This was done in fear of the appeal of TRUE Socialism. Communism is a "type" of Socialism, but it for certain isn't the epitome of it! And European Socialism isn't "pure" Socialism either. It is a mushy Socialism "want-a-be" form of Capitalism, which if left unchecked will become full blown Communism... and this will happen BECAUSE OF THE CAPITALISTS INFLUENCE OVER IT!
To put it simply(in my own words this time) Socialism should be a form of government steeped within the laws of nature itself. I'll attach it to something we can understand and maybe we'll see its truth and understand its merit.
The nation-state when viewed as a living, breathing entity, is the mass of people united in the endeavor to live and thrive together as one. Take your own living body for instance. In it your separate organs all clamor in their own way for nourishment and attention. All these organs are uniquely different one from another and yet although they are each "selfishly" working toward achieving their individually separate goals they wind up working harmoniously toward the same objective. And in their keeping of themselves alive they make the whole body to thrive and all the other organs are benefitted thereby. These organs can only accomplish this feat because a SYSTEM of GOVERNANCE is maintained over them. Some say this "governance" comes only from the brain, but I am certain that there is an ongoing and corresponding communication between these organs themselves through the language of excretions and secretions and the like. These organs are "feeding" and then excreting nutriment one to another. They work in unison and fit together better than any "hand and glove".
Now, imagine that your heart were allowed to grow and expand beyond any useful measure to the rest of your body. The Capitalists would call this "tumor-ous" process "FANTASTIC!" for it is "PROFITS!". Yet we KNOW it should in all honesty be viewed as "wasteful excess". The end result of such activity, left unchecked, would mean CERTAIN DEATH! The same would be the case for any other of these bodily entities whether it be your liver, stomach, eyes, teeth, etc. etc. should they be allowed to gorge themselves unhealthily.
Well, enough now of my babbling. Let my Socialist expert speak once again... in "His" own words...
In the relations between economics and the people, the people alone is the only unchangeable element. The will to place the economic system at the service of the people, and capital at the service of economics, is the only thing that is of decisive importance here. We know that Socialism vigorously combats the
opinion which holds that the economic structure exists for the benefit of capital and that the people are to be looked upon as subject to the economic system. We are therefore determined from the very beginning to exterminate the false notion that the economic system can exist and operate entirely freely and entirely outside of any control or supervision on the part of the State. Today there can no longer be such a thing as an independent economic system. That is to say, the economic
system can no longer be left to itself exclusively. And this is so because the
consequences would be disastrous.
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The Man With No Band
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2/19/2009 8:50:21 PM
Ahhhhh Sterling .. now I think I see why you got so bent out of shape ... You are taking Mortamor's statement WAY out of context ... No where does he state that capitalist don't work "hard" ... "hard" an honest are not the same thing ... What he is trying to explain (IMO) is that Capitalist believe that Capital (money) is what they are working for ... they actually believe that giving your all for the Capitalist way of life is good for the people ... When in all actuallity they have it backwards ... giving your all for the people is what would really make a Capitalist society work ...
It's the people that are the asset ... not the money ... you should go back and read his post more thouroghly and don't assume you know what he is talking about ... You are failing to see, because you don't want to see ...
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Kevin White
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2/20/2009 12:58:50 AM
Mortamor, could I have the permission to use your words:
"Sorry people, but Kevin White is right!
... as my permanent signature?
:^D
The U.S. is so far from a "pure" system that consideration towards anything "pure" on any measure, is in "pure" denial of the obvious.
Kev-
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Psyche's Muse
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2/20/2009 9:51:34 AM
After reading through some of your in depth analysis on "So here's the thing..." I think that'd probably not be an inappropriate statement to make... seems like it already "fits" there every few comments or so. -M-
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Psyche's Muse
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2/20/2009 10:32:59 AM
Sam-Cat - Absolutely Right! ...and Sorry not to have said "Hello!" back at you sooner!
Larree - YOU kick ASS!
Silverwoodstudio - Hello to you too!
Frater P. - That earlier writing wasn't 'really' mine so I'd hate to receive any thanks for anything other than posting it. I did find it to be strangely familiar though...
-M-
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2/20/2009 12:32:40 PM
What a bunch of dung. Holo, they trashed your topic.
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Holo Lukaloa
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2/20/2009 1:01:52 PM
Not in my opinion.
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Conversation Suicide
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2/20/2009 8:15:31 PM
Oh that BLuto! ARE you feeling blue today mr. bluto? Such a negative nellie you are!
Holo -- thanks for recognizing that we were mostly on topic OR on related economics topics....
Pretty cool thread, by the way, man.
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/20/2009 8:22:43 PM
I disagree with you there man with no band : ) ...this economic situaiton is definitely way worse then the 80s .....if you want some facts and figures i will fire them at you to your personal email.......
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Psyche's Muse
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2/22/2009 2:05:27 PM
Phil Graham put forth the legislation in 1999 that changed the way Financial Institutions do business and Bill Clinton signed it into law. This was the seminal act which culminated in the dire financial straits that we find ourselves in today. If we indeed ARE a "nation of whiners" good 'ol Phil had a hand in making us that way. And Phil Graham was John McCain's financial "expert".
Now the Republicans will harp on and on and on about Democratic "indiscretions". It's enough to ALMOST make one believe that they actually MEAN WHAT THEY'RE SAYING. It appears as if public sentiment is going their way too. Yet, I know they're just trying to regain power. For if they were REALLY going to do anything worthwhile they would have already done so while they were IN power. Its all for show! "Socialism! Socialism! Socialism!" They say it like its a "dirty word" too. Yes, the "Socialistic" policies of the United States are terrible. "Socialism" here means taxation for the delivery of hand-outs. That is not true Socialism. Socialism is the control of economic policies for the betterment of the society. Capitalistic endeavors are very acceptable to a true Socialist government. The attainment of "middleclass" status for essentially everyone is the goal... everyone that "pulls their weight" that is... no work no eat. Welfare in a rightly run Socialist State would be FAR DIFFERENT from the American experience I can tell you. A growing economy is the goal. Enough food is the goal. "National" Socialism cares about and tends unto the nations needs and expectations. The World Government and Internationalist FEAR TRUE SOCIALISM!
-M-
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2/22/2009 3:23:34 PM
---- Updated 2/22/2009 3:32:02 PM
If anyone care to focus on the economic points Alan Keyes makes in this video you should understand why Socialist policies are leading this country to ruin. It doesn't matter how much money the Fed prints, if we don't return to a sound fiscal policy soon everyone in this country will be reduced to a 3rd. world standard of living. I guess that's how Egalitarianism really works...
Again, focus on the economic points Alan Keyes makes in this video.
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Holo Lukaloa
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2/22/2009 6:12:38 PM
Sterling, could you possibly rely on a sillier source than Alan Keyes?
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The Man With No Band
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2/22/2009 9:27:50 PM
Bryon ... "I disagree with you there man with no band : ) ...this economic situaiton is definitely way worse then the 80s .....if you want some facts and figures i will fire them at you to your personal email......."
I'm not sure what you are referring too ? ... I said we are worse now than in the Reagan years ... It is Sterling that says Reagan had it tougher ...
I was quoting Sterling above and saying he needed to open his eyes ...
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Night Krawler Blues
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2/23/2009 12:02:12 AM
holy moly holo .what a pain...
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