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Holo Lukaloa
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3/20/2009 8:59:50 AM
Olbermann's great rant on corporate America
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3/20/2009 12:39:43 PM
Olbermann would be known as #4567823 beginning his shift in the coal mines right now. And Holo would actually know what the meaning of physical labor is..
Hmnn....
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Holo Lukaloa
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3/20/2009 3:08:00 PM
A taxi driver and an unemployed man backing corporations, what a freak show.
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Bryon Tosoff
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3/20/2009 3:38:27 PM
and you do what Holo.......pack pineapples
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Kevin White
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3/20/2009 3:48:30 PM
Good rant.
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Bryon Tosoff
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3/20/2009 3:49:10 PM
This video is about as useless as the one of Bush not being allowed in Canada
Holo obviously cant present an argument and uses quotes and videos to help him speak his mind...talk about unoriginal,.
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Holo Lukaloa
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3/20/2009 4:05:38 PM
I think any respectable rocker should feel the same way about corporations as Olbermann does.
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Bryon Tosoff
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3/20/2009 4:11:08 PM
Lets write a song Called Obama's girl
Oh I wish I was Obama's girl .Obama's girl
Oh I wish I was Obama's girl Obama;s girl
But here I am just a guy wishing he could be on Obama's list of things to do
But here I am just a guy wishing he could be on Obama's list of things to do
Oh I wish I was Obama's girl Obama's girl
Oh I wish I was Obama's girl Obama;s girl
It must be nice to be the president, the president the man I wish I could be
It must be nice to be the president, the president the man I wish I could be
Oh I wish I was Obama's girl Obama's girl
Oh I wish I was Obama's girl Obama;s girl
It is kinda lonely being who I am, it is kinda lonely being who I am, who am I
It is kinda lonely being who I am, it is kinda lonely being who I am ,who am I
Oh I wish I was Obama's girl Obama's girl
Oh I wish I was Obama's girl Obama;s girl
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Holo Lukaloa
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3/20/2009 4:36:39 PM
Bryon we can't all be Bush fans like you. Some of us have brains.
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Kevin White
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3/20/2009 5:44:14 PM
I'm fiscally conservative, and I agree with what was said.
We need government to better govern. Period.
They need to set the rules and enforce them, break up the crony capitalism, and stop the economic rape.
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Bryon Tosoff
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3/20/2009 7:13:04 PM
---- Updated 3/20/2009 7:14:52 PM
First off the biggest mistake that the old and new government made were all the bailouts..ie the Banks, the Car companies, AIG ,all the other crony crap that has gone on for years, that is not the solution.
Sure go and offer up solutions, that is easy to say, but these guys are all talking heads and they have researchers and individuals who do all this preparation for them and then they just get up there and say we should do this or that.
Whether you are a conservative or not, you know there is no easy way out of this morass you are all in. And some TV talking head Wanna be economist supposed know it all gets up and offers up how to undertake and improve the current economic dilemma the USA and the world is in. Whether it is the Banking system or the Car Companies situation the wrong approach is being taken.
It is like going to the doctor and saying , I need some penicillin for my syphilis cause I been screwing around.and got this thing on my dick..oh here you go try this it should work, then he comes back again , well it went away, but I got it again. the doctor says here take this, he comes back again and says I tried it it did not work
oh I have to give you something more powerful , try this, he comes back again and says that stuff was great,. it cleared everything up , but I happened to go out screwing around again and I need more, the doctor says ok here ya go,
he comes back again and says doctor doctor Mr . MD this dont seem to be curing what is ailing me, the doctor then says you stupid jerk , I have got nothing else to help you, sorry you will just have to deal with the syphilated infected idiot that you are. .
So what I am really saying is that what is going on is that the government and those poorly run business are treating the effect not the cause
All economists have gone on record this was the wrong way to go. let them go broke , claim bankruptcy and or re-invent themselves,
the bottom line is that these companies became inefficient, too big, unable to keep tabs on things, they did not and do not have people in there who have vision and an understanding on how to deal with the challenges that lay before them, so they go to big brother. and beg for money from the government and spend your tax dollars to piss away so that they can last a little while longer. wrong thing to do
once the government gets involved in a business they just get more inefficient.
have you ever seen a government run a business, look at the Federal Governments own loan companies, could they run a fiscally sound and solvent business. No
So now the government is beholden to big business again and vice versa. they each have been giving each other blow jobs for decades and now Obama throws in his blow job and Hollywood glitz and glamor and looks like a savior , which he is not, what is with this going on national TV. Is he going to be a movie star after he is president.
the Jay Leno Show
What a disastrous way to project the image of the president of the USA, supposedly the most powerful man in the world. By doing this Jay Leno thing he adulterated himself and displayed his incompetence on national television trying to be the cool guy
So lets suck up to the media, the talking heads, you all better watch out, this man is not who you think he is.
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never never band
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3/20/2009 8:02:28 PM
---- Updated 3/20/2009 8:09:20 PM
you have some very real arguments there Byron.
In sentiment I agree that insolvent companies need to be allowed to FAIL.
The problem is, we've been bailing out overcapitalizing lying cheating corporations for so long that they now have grown to the point where their failure would totally collapse the current paradigm (again I would in a way welcome this in principal, but I'm doubtful about it in practice) but it's clearly not going to happen. It would cause a great deal of suffering worldwide that could be avoided if the system is taken down in stages rather than in an inferno. So, for all of that, in the competition of supposed " ideals" Obama is one again the guy who emerges as the lesser of to evils...and the people have agreed.
I used to chant that Jerry Garcia shit about "choosing the lesser of two evils is still deliberately choosing evil" but I'm all grown up now, I know we are all complicit in the worlds tragedy, and I dont really know the way out but I do think it needs to happen in degrees, not in a momentary collapse of the entire economic paradigm.
I kind of think Kieth is a big blowhard drama queen, but I also think he's useful in that he ivoices the outrage of the average liberal citizen, and even though he ridiculously oversimplifies the issues, he at least puts a voice to the outrage that many, many people feel.
Obama appearing on Leno?
I'm ambivalent, I don't think it means a thing more than we have a president to is trying like all hell to put people at ease in uncertain times, and I think that's smart and pretty responsive. The curious shroud of secrecy that surrounded the last administration and the cynical chain of command whereby they distributed their talking points was disconcerting to the majority. It felt like a grand deception, and in fact it was.
I know Dana Perino was out in force today admonishing the president (I think that's weird, who the fuck is she at this point? the former chief propagandist of an ousted administration?)
Really these talking head people are all playing to the cheap seats, the average American has no fucking idea what is going on and that ignorance is being played to like never before. I saw David Letterman saying to Rachel Maddow "I just dont understand any of this AIG stuff, it's so confusing" which is total bullshit! David is plenty smart enough to understand how AIG worked and what happened, and Rachel was explaining it very clearly but he interrupts and throws his hands up like "it's all too complicated"
But its not really, it's just that if the media really portrayed this stuff in a factual way people would be in the streets with torches and pitchforks!
so we have the president and the treasury trying to put us at ease while they try to hold up this house of cards, and we have talking heads trying to incite outrage on both sides..
I wish I knew which plan was better for society in the long run, but to me it seems that calming everyone the fuck down is a smart step, and that seems to be the presidents approach. I think the corporation as we know it will either Die and will kill us, and all for watching it die....but I think it's execution has to happen in stages.
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Sly Witt
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3/20/2009 8:03:22 PM
Byron said, "All economists have gone on record this was the wrong way to go. let them go broke "
Actually the economists are pretty much agreed that the opposite is the case. Something like 98-99%. (There are obviously variations on solutions). In a normal situation, bankruptcy would be good economics but this is such an extraordinary mess that when one of these giants falls it starts a domino effect. Look at the damage to the stock market that the just Lehman Bros. failure did... and they were a relatively small fish in this mess.
The loss of auto manufacturing is a national security issue. There's a lot more going on than the simple answers can handle.
I'm all for a 'free market' but with appropriate regulations and controls.
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never never band
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3/20/2009 8:20:13 PM
Elliot speaks out!
(it's a damn shame this guy couldn't keep his sex life together, he's a sharp guy)
talking about the REAL money
it's a little strange that the "sleeps with prostitutes on the way to the Colbert show" guy is the first CNN interview that discusses the financial sector at AIG in a meaningful way...
??
wow
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Bryon Tosoff
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3/20/2009 8:27:42 PM
Slywit
not so.
dont know where you get you info from.
I think some have been bamboozled and dont follow what is being said in economic magazines..and radio programs. Just because you think it is something that is being blessed by the current administration does not make it so
I dont like what is happening as much as you dont like it. but to think by virtue of the government getting involved is going to offer up solutions, aint gonna happen
and now a quote for you and all to read, if you have any stomach for the reality
here is the truth my iacmusic friend, and if you all have any desire to read the rest, maybe then you might get it...
Quote:
No Consensus for “Stimulus” Among Economists
"Contrary to claims by the Obama administration, there is no consensus among economists for a “stimulus” package, much less the trillion-dollar pork-filled “stimulus” package being crafted by Obama and liberal Congressional leaders. (Many economists oppose it). Even the liberal Washington Post, which has not endorsed a Republican for President since 1952, admitted this today: “Fiscal stimulus is far from a sure-fire remedy. Economists disagree about the efficacy of every pump-priming effort from the New Deal to last year’s tax rebates. In general, fiscal policy had fallen out of favor in economics. . .Many economists note Japan’s failed attempt to borrow and spend its way out of a recession during the 1990s” through “repeated stimulus packages. As it is, Japan piled up a massive debt and recovered only modestly, leaving it vulnerable to today’s downturn.” (See Editorial, “Priming the Pump,” Jan. 25, pg. B6).
The Obama Administration’s claim to economic expertise is odd, given that Obama’s nominee to head the Treasury Department and oversee economic policy is the “non-economist” Timothy Geithner, a man whose chief claim to fame is having worked on prior bailouts in which taxpayers were shafted, and he arguably “was had by crafty bankers.”
END QUOTE
there is more about this subject at this link of what economists think of this whole stimulus package if anyone cares to expand their horizons on this subject
no consensus for stimulus
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never never band
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3/20/2009 9:01:09 PM
thats more propaganda than thoughtful economics...
we have too opposing philosophies at work here that are both pretty involved,
Read this great exchange between scott grannis and mark sadowski.
a good intro to saltwater economics vs fresh water economics
still, while I think the discussion is fascinating, and I'm learning more about the grander economic philosophies every day (funny how it takes catastrophe to inspire education) I think the argument for stimulus spending is pretty damn strong. Of course I would like to see a trillion dollars in infrastructure spending, if like to see immediate stimulus in a boost of liquidity at the bottom (as I've mentioned before the most "stimulative" program available is FOOD STAMPs as it puts about $1.70 back into the economy for dollar invested, while Tax Breaks only put $1.06 back into the economy for every dollar invested....
You can spend your way out of this mess, but you gotta spend in two viable ways, one is immediate liquidityy for the very bottom, the people who will spend it all right away, the other is investment in infrastructure!!
this is a great deal...my main argument against the stimulus is it's not enough and it's not infrastructure!!
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Bryon Tosoff
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3/20/2009 9:09:53 PM
Yes you are right, it is important to be balanced in ones approach to this type of thing and not shove an opinion or what one may think is right or the answer is this or that , So you are absolutely correct there on the various aspects that are invloved ,so i concur. Read, investigate and evaluate , ponder then make a decision but be open minded and have point counterpoint approaches to the matter
thanks for the insight and your point of view I appreciate it. and will read the
link you posted
I really am a reasonable person
most times
bryon
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3/20/2009 10:14:40 PM
---- Updated 3/20/2009 10:28:35 PM
Food stamps to stimulate the economy??? What complete lunacy...
http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/12/store_owner_accused_of_food_st.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,72137,00.html
Large scale food stamp fraud came to light in an explosive way in 1996, when authorities in Ohio discovered that a Jordanian man and his uncle had deposited $24 million in purchased food stamps in the bank accounts associated with their chain of food and video stores. Just before authorities descended on them with arrest warrants, they deeded their property over to their wives, which included $300,000 homes, and fled to Jordan.
More recently, food stamp fraud has been refined by "asylees" asylum seekers fleeing Somalia, where rampant starvation serves as the basis of those asylum claims. Asylees are one of a very small number of immigrant groups who are normally eligible for food stamps. Last year, according to documents filed by the U.S. Attorney's Office with the District Court in Seattle, Wash., a ring of Somali couples based in Washington leveraged their skills into a multi-layered public assistance fraud that even involved cash payments from the government. One of the couples netted $40,000 in food stamp fraud alone. Be comforted that the United States was not their only victim. The ring claimed residences on both sides of the border, and Canada, too, was taken for many tens of thousands of dollars.
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Jeff Allen Myers
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3/20/2009 10:28:27 PM
There is one thing you can count on when you put two economists in a room...
A disagreement! Put three in a room... an arguement.... four in the room...a fight
Five in a room...anarchy..... six in the room......You get the picture.
Economics is an imperfect "social science" there are too many variables as Human nature and economic decision is not a fixed subset. There will always be new schools of thought, some will come back in fashion. A GDP the size of the United states has too many moving parts, and things can change on a dime. Economic reports will always lag, and be out of date the day they are read.
One thing for certain, this mess was created by greed, and our collective futures were "hedged".... This should be made illegal as they are playing with other peoples money. The derivatives, and "innovative" financial instruments were smoke and mirrors, a ticking time bomb waiting to explode. The problem was it was interwoven so deep within the fabric of our economy, when it unraveled the foundation crumbled. There is no easy answer, but something needed to be done. Unfortunately AIG was allowed to grow to the point its health effected the economy as a whole, this should not be allowed to happen ever again.
Peace..
Jeff
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never never band
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3/20/2009 10:41:49 PM
---- Updated 3/20/2009 10:43:23 PM
sterling you disingenuous thing you...
I'm just giving you the stats, when you pump liquidity into the poorest sector it gets spent immediately and thus creates STIMULUS , when you give tax breaks to the rich it introduces very little back into the economy for each dollar invested..
it's just an example..
taking to two polar opposites here and showing how the concept of STIMULUS works..
Its not a moral argument...
But of course you have to place everything you read into one of your frantic categories and always trumpet about some flaw in the particular while ignoring the general....
It gets tiresome, and even more in that you not only cant write an intelligible paragraph of your own but you're even too damn lazy to HTML link you're frantically googled references..
You're like a drive by billboard for the radical right, I suspect you haven't had an original thought in years.
But I still gots nothin but love for ya G!!
nothin but love....
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never never band
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3/20/2009 11:29:54 PM
I just noticed I misspelled your name Bryon..
my bad, I could a sworn I was seeing Byron, dyslexia strikes again........
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3/20/2009 11:32:02 PM
The food stamp as it exists now was designed for fraud, we would be better to go back to the token system so it's actuualy used for food, not booze, ciggarettes and drugs. They're worth on a average .50 on the dollar, often less depending on market conditions and and the taxpayers end up paying twice for them so that is hardly a stimulus program. This amounts going to the same doctor who addicted you on drugs to now cure you. Govt. interference into the free market is what has caused the dilema we now face and increased interference on their part is not going to lead us out of it.
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Kevin White
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3/20/2009 11:39:14 PM
---- Updated 3/21/2009 12:03:43 AM
You can't buy booze or drugs w/ food stamps ... just to be clear.
There is no stopping what forms of trade develop otherwise.
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Bryon Tosoff
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3/21/2009 12:01:01 AM
Scott...now that is your name correct?, I went to the never never page and saw a bunch of aliases or aka's and I am counting this is right anyways you said "I just noticed I misspelled your name Bryon..my bad, I could a sworn I was seeing Byron, dyslexia strikes again."
It happens a lot......no worries.. Lord Byron approves.. : )
.Bryon is just something to confuse and mesmerize people
BTW I have to get some of your tunes on some of my stations and SOON!!!
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Jeff Allen Myers
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3/21/2009 12:52:59 AM
In line to buy groceries I once saw someone use food stamps to buy Steak and Lobster....No shit. Whats wrong with that picture??
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Kevin White
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3/21/2009 1:45:08 AM
Nothing. You can't dictate what people eat.
It's like loaning somebody money. You can't tell them how you would spend it.
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Jeff Allen Myers
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3/21/2009 2:26:49 AM
---- Updated 3/21/2009 2:30:52 AM
Lobster? come on Man, give me a break.... I have money and I don't buy it because of the cost... The point is Food stamps are not for "luxury" items.... Please. "Loan" is not a good example, I don't believe they intended to pay anybody back....
Since my taxes fund these, I took offense. I am not against food stamps to help families in need, however the program overall is just another abuse of the welfare system that is ripe with fraud. Billions are wasted on people who game the system...
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Kevin White
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3/21/2009 2:35:09 AM
---- Updated 3/21/2009 2:37:20 AM
So will you be willing to support legislation as to what food choices people can make if they receive food stamps?
Do you really want legislation over such detail in people's lives?
Really, Jeff ... how far are you willing to let government legislate into your personal behaviors? We all may wind up there someday ... how 1984 do you want it to be?
While I agree with you on a personal decision level, as I wouldn't choose such if I were on food stamps ...
The real question is how far you're willing to let government get into your private house ... by allowing it to dictate what you can or can't eat because you asked it for a hand.
Is that something you'd really support?
OTOH, it's VERY different when it allows 165 million dollars in undeserved corporate welfare bonuses.
Kev-
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Jeff Allen Myers
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3/21/2009 7:44:45 AM
---- Updated 3/21/2009 8:12:51 AM
Kevin, did I say a damn thing about legislation? What I observed was inherently wrong period...Food stamps came up in this thread, I shared a personal experience and my thought on the matter.
Now, since "you" brought up "legislation" .... do I think there should be welfare reform?? Hell yes, but I see it getting worse not better.
As a person who pays a "shitload" in Taxes I think I have a right to bitch a bit.... :)
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Kevin White
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3/21/2009 3:16:35 PM
---- Updated 3/21/2009 3:36:29 PM
While not specifically mentioning legislation, J ... the only way to control/restrict such food purchases with food stamps would have to be through legislation.
I did say that I agree with you on a personal level. As a small business professional, I pay HUGE sums in taxes too.
Yet, I've absolutely NO desire to have my government tell anyone what they can or can't eat.
Sure ... someone may buy lobster w/ food stamps ... but lobster costs a lot of money ... and there's limited amount of food stamp money available to them ... so they go hungry after they run out of food stamp money after they spent it on lobster.
One cannot legislate against stupidity, nor should anyone want their government to try ... for it will only cost more in the long run and inconvenience everyone.
Stupidity simply is unconquerable ... so it's best to just let it go and let Darwinism run it's course.
Kev-
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Jeff Allen Myers
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3/21/2009 3:48:21 PM
---- Updated 3/21/2009 3:51:36 PM
Kevin, My point is there is probably fraud involved, I do not think they are going to run out of anything! It not an issue of Lets splurge and go hungry tomorrow, its "hey we have all thee food stamps, Lets get some Lobster!!" :)
Again, I have nothing against real families in need, I don't mind my taxes helping them, I just don't want them funding a way of life...and for many, not all, welfare is an entitlement they have no ambition of giving up.
I did not know the people buying the lobster, It just rubbed me the wrong way. They were also buying alcohol with Money.
Here is an example of someone my wife personally knows, and is no longer friends with. The boyfriend (and father) is a police officer, the girlfriend is on welfare with two kids. They do not get married because she would "lose" the welfare. They live together "under the table" ., she also had a side job getting paid in cash. She regularly flaunted all the benefits she got for "free".
My wife stopped the relationship when she was invited to, and went to a "Lavish" Birthday party for the kids....complete with.....can you guess?? Steak and Lobster.
This in itself did not end the relationship, my wife did not like the "ethics" being exhibited by the friend she thought she knew, and the attitude she displayed in "gaming" the system.
Here are two people being supported entirely by tax dollars, albeit the boyfriend is a police officer and I will assume he earns his money.
Anyway, I was just relaying a personal observation. I base my opinion on what I saw, and of course I do not have all the facts. Maybe what I observed in the supermarket was the preparation for a very special occasion.
You cannot control how entitlements are spent, you can however control who receives aid and make sure there is a real need, how long the benefit is received, and ensure personal responsibility is attached so " receiving aid" does not become an embedded way of life while promoting little or no ambition.
Sorry for going on so long on your thread Holo.
Regards,
Jeff
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Kevin White
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3/21/2009 4:35:00 PM
Folks can also control who receives "stolen" benefits by "anonymously reporting" suspected abuses of the system to the appropriate authorities for further investigation.
Responsibility for stopping such wrongs doesn't happen as effectively at the legislative level as it does at the citizen level. It's stolen taxpayer money that's going to them. Lower cost of the system = lower taxes needed to run it.
Not a crit, btw ... only a mention in relation to the story.
Kev-
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Holo Lukaloa
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3/22/2009 11:45:34 AM
No problemo, Jeff.
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