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Holo Lukaloa
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6/14/2009 10:42:09 AM
Iran election comparable to Bush/Gore sham. Cheat elections stink.
Why did anybody believe they would run a fair vote? At least their population is going to be too busy beating each other up to worry about building bombs, it seems.
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LyinDan
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6/14/2009 7:02:54 PM
The similarities between this election and the Bush/Gore contest were the first thing I thought of, too. Looks like the Iranians may be more activist about it than we were, though.
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AnigmaS
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6/15/2009 8:13:38 PM
---- Updated 6/15/2009 8:29:39 PM
I can't speak to Iranian politics or election results, but as far as American politics, and American election results are concerned;
I would say that America has a long and clear history of striving to ensure fair and honest elections at every level of within our society.
The willing, peaceful, legal, and honest transfer of power from one entity to the next, as directed by the will of the people, as they express it in any of the hundreds of thousands of fair elections we've held in this country over the last 233 years; is in fact the very foundation upon which our Democracy was built, and has endured.
One of the most important, yet sometimes overlooked responsibilities of being a good citizen; privledged enough to live in a free land, and have a voice in a Democracy, is that of each citizen's responsibility to be equally principled. and willing to and embrace their moral obligation to accept, and respect the will of their fellow citizens; as expressed in those elections, ...even when those election results may indicate an outcome one views as undesirable.
To make an accusation that those undesirable results were caused by some factor other than the lawful expression of the people's will, ...or to attempt to invalidate those unfavorable results as a "sham", is in actuality an attempt to disparage, and marginalize the will of the people.
At it's root, it is the espousal of dictatorial governence in it's philosophy, and it is inherently un-American.
It's all too easy to become what you most despise, not just for those who Govern, but for those charged with the equally arduous and sacred duty of accepting that governence as well
Just something to think about. :-)
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Holo Lukaloa
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6/15/2009 10:05:59 PM
So you think Bush/Gore had a legitimate outcome?
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Kevin White
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6/15/2009 10:46:32 PM
I don't agree that under any circumstance should a court battle determine the will of the people, and I'm concerned (but not surprised ... because it gave the Republicans power ... and they had no interest in challenging that) that legislation wasn't drafted to better outline procedure in such matters to avoid such.
It will happen again ... and Al Haig will still probably declare himself the president.
... but I digress.
It was still a peaceful transfer of power.
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Kevin White
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6/15/2009 10:55:01 PM
btw ... Holo.
Referring back to Obama's Cairo speech ... this is a classic example of his brilliant "reality check" ... when he warned that 'no matter what the form of government is' (while noting that democracy was only one type amongst many), that ANY government that does not form to the will of the people, is a government that will ultimately fail.
The Iranians, under democracy, experienced more freedom than under the theocracy of late.
The theocrats believe they hold ultimate power and do whatever the fuck they please.
They're about to get schooled in what Obama warned ... and even if they are able to squelch the uprising ... it'll just simmer in the pot until eventually it boils over.
The other interesting note out of the Middle East as of late is Israel is tentatively agreeing to two states ... something else O outlined as needing to be done to prevent the inevitable.
... and that was just a speech.
Interesting results.
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LyinDan
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6/15/2009 11:46:37 PM
AnigmaS, that speech sounds remarkably like what Iranian leaders in power are saying.
Shut up!, he argued.
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Kevin White
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6/15/2009 11:57:55 PM
---- Updated 6/16/2009 12:01:37 AM
One has to put differences that separate aside to focus on common ground shared so that moving forward productively together as a society can be achieved ...
Who said that?
:^D
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