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Andy Broad
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1/12/2009 8:48:56 AM
---- Updated 1/12/2009 8:52:35 AM
Midi drums, how to make them sound good?
Been doing a little work on a couple of tracks, using midi drums and bass lines to overlay guitar parts on. Ultimately I suppose I'd prefer to record real drums to replace them. But in the short termn to get as good a demo as possible I'd like to make the drums sound as real as possible. Anyone got any good tips on how to acheive this?
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LyinDan
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1/12/2009 9:10:19 AM
---- Updated 1/12/2009 9:13:21 AM
Jamstix
The best.
Good samples help a lot, too, of course. Jamstix comes with some pretty decent ones.
Oddly, my link doesn't seem to work from here.
Anyhow, it's www.rayzoon.com
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Andy Broad
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1/12/2009 10:11:42 AM
---- Updated 1/12/2009 10:16:22 AM
Thanks for that.
That looks like a pretty cool piece of software but it's windows based and I don't used windows.
So I really need practical tips for for use in a classic midi editor...
BTW your link didn't work because you forgot the 'http://' part...
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satch
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1/12/2009 10:20:55 AM
Andy - may I suggest that you "play" the midi drums, even one drum at a time, using a keyboard if that's the only input device you have - by all means play to a click but don't don't don't quantise your performances!
As far as drum sounds go, almost all digital drum samples will benefit from gates and compression (to improve the attack) and some reverb to put them in a small space.
Hope that helps!
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Jesse Adams
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1/12/2009 10:35:19 AM
Yo! Satch is right... and this is exactly what I do. I play the drums live on my keyboard... but it takes some practice to get the hang of this. I've been playing keyboard drums for like, 14 years now haha. A lot of tweaking sounds and practicing.. in fact I use to go out and play gigs as a drummer for my father using the keyboard for drums. People got a kick out of it. If I'm programming something complex, I play and record in real time with the basics, then add some more complex fills and triplets if need be after the fact. Don't tell satch but I quantize my performances to make it tight, but you don't have to do it 100%... if you turn the strength of the quantization down to say 90%, it'll leave some things a but loose and won't be perfect robot sounding timing... another key thing is to use touch sensitivity... that's the main key for getting a "human" feel, but like I said you'll need to practice to be able to groove on a keyboard like it was a real drumset. You've listened to my tunes some right? ALL of my drums are done this way, except False Start and Home... but like The Yummy Song, M20, Drone, Long Time Gone, Second Chance, She's Leaving Home... all those drums are done by me on a keyboard.
OR, you can just send your demo to me and I'll gladly do a drum track for you Andy. As a matter of fact, I just got a new Juno G with some pretty good drum sounds, and they would work perfectly for your kind of music.
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Lars Mars
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1/12/2009 11:07:14 AM
---- Updated 1/12/2009 11:07:56 AM
Fixed link:
Jamstix
Thanks Jesse
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LyinDan
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1/12/2009 1:27:57 PM
---- Updated 1/12/2009 1:37:09 PM
doh!
Ralph is working on a Mac version of Jamstix, btw. This guy has the best customer support of any software producer anywhere anytime. For a non-drummer, this is the best, easiest way of getting pro sounding drum tracks. You can use it to trigger some of the great drum samplers like BFD, giving excellent results.
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Andy Broad
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1/12/2009 1:33:41 PM
Hi Satch and Jesse,
So the advice is to play them. That makes sense. The tecnical hitch from my end is the only keyboard I have is the one I'm typing on now. It's not velocity sensitive :-). (Although I have the virtual keyboard function on my softsynth active and the drums are playing away as I type... (. = snare drum) ... )
This might take a bit of practice, so Jesse I may well take you up on that offer to a drum track. Where should I send something for you to hear? (My email contact is on my artist page). The 'song' I'm working on is fairly atipical for me (I wouldn't bother with programmed drums for acoutsic blues pieces anyway).
Thanks for the hints.
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Fyvwunsyx
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1/12/2009 2:30:35 PM
This is the samples that I've been using - good for Windows or Mac:
Kitcore
Agree that "playing" them would give more realistic results. Some DAW software include "random" effects to time, velocity, etc to your midi events.
Sounds like it might be tough to do without a velocity sensitive keyboard though.
Best of luck!
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Steve Ison
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1/12/2009 2:59:11 PM
Yeh,definitely PLAY THEM LIVE like people are suggesting Andy..
Its a real pain in the arse and takes me ages n ages(by far the most time-consuming and often tedious part of the recording process,but i'm proud of a few of my drum tracks-ALL played live..even with the crappy keyboard i've got..
Kick/snare on one track to get the basic groove..Then cymbals n crashes on the next..Then rolls on another..
Imagine the drums in your head and do it as you feel it..
Hi-hats are the most difficult to get a human feel and not sound really stiff..I guess you need really good equipment to do them well that i don't have..
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dyslextasy
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1/12/2009 4:06:51 PM
If you want realism, make sure you "think" like a drummer when building out MIDI keyboard parts. Most drummers have only two hands and two feet (some have less) -- think about what they're doing as you play. Think about dynamics, when to go to the ride vs. hihat, etc. Having good samples/patches is only part of the equation. And speaking of samples, Superior Drummer 2.0 is a pretty killer package for having real drum sounds.
Another option is to use drum loops if your software supports it.
Of course, the best option is to use a real drummer.
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Monkey68
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1/12/2009 5:42:00 PM
Agree with all about playing as live as possible (and mimicking the physical appendages of a drummer... well, 4 of them at least)
In addition, I always go back and, unless I'm really going for a particularly hard sound, back off the velocity of the hits - to my ear once I get up above 100, the drum samples just sound processed no matter what I do to them (but remember that's to my ears so your results may differ). I usually aim the main hits at around velocity of 80-90, with accents at around 60-70 - but depends on what I'm working on.
Then, in the processing department, I generally put the midi kit into a drum room, using Space Designer (on Logic) just enough to create some space around the kit before sending to the main reverb bus - I'm not a great fan of heavy reverb on drums, so it's only ever enough to warm them up in the mix.
Having said all that, I try and use loops whenever possible now,
Hope that helps
V
ps: I got a tip from Mark Henning of Combine the Victorious (ace band, check them out) a long time ago, that if you use midi drums, play live bass - if you're using programmed bass, use live drums - but try and avoid programmed drums and bass because it's just too non-human - that advice has served me well.
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The Man With No Band
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1/12/2009 10:13:37 PM
---- Updated 1/13/2009 12:00:13 AM
ya all make this to complicated ... One very large bong hit should make them sound just right ... if that doesn't work ... take one more ...
You can actually make pretty good sounding percussion by banging on about anything close at hand ... coffee cans ... propane cylinders ... any number of everyday utensils ... they all sound great ... especially with the blues ...
drum roll please ......
...and here are some nice ladies with their homemade drums ...
this one is a bit rough ... but has potential ... :)
this one is pretty darn good !
one more ....
Should have put this one first .... this cat is workin' it !
Last one .... buckets are cool ...
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Monkey68
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1/13/2009 4:02:23 AM
And so we learn about Sam's 'obscure "drum" fetish'... They probably make a medicine for that, Sam - sounds like you're probably already taking it in big hits... :o)
V
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Pulse Eternal
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1/13/2009 5:40:13 AM
---- Updated 1/13/2009 5:41:02 AM
Looks like you've received plenty of great input here on this thread already Andy.
I have to agree with most here. Playing the parts by hand on keyboards to get some human feel is how I used to approach drum tracks.
You could go down the path I went down and look into getting a Roland V-Kit. I must warn you though, they are addictive!!!! Just look where it lead me! (As you know from our collaboration)
I'll add another vote here for Superior Drummer 2 as well. I now use that on almost everything I play on my V-Kit.
My newest track uses Superior 2 sounds exclusively for drums and, although I played this from my kit, it can be triggered from any midi source.
Here's a link to my new song. The drums come in about 3:45 into the song....
Am I Dying?
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Chris Hance
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1/13/2009 7:27:45 AM
Lots of good stuff here then :)
Best piece of advice I got regarding midi drums came from a real drummer, it was these two words;
Linear Phrasing
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