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The Big 50

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SO THE FORUMS HAVE FINALLY BEEN SHUT DOWN I SEE....



IndieMusicPeople.com

IAC Prime Member

   

Steve Ison

10/29/2007 2:07:15 PM

The Big 50
I havn't been here for ages but have recently got a new computer and been surfing around here recently trying to find new songs/artists to add to my stations.
I flicked thru all the tracks on the Underground 40 and THe Big 50(except for Rock'n'metal)The Underground 40 i found generally alot more interesting and individual and probarbly added 4 tracks-There was nothing i wanted to add from The current 'Big 50' or that fed me creatively there at all tho..The only way i can describe the sound and writing was 'Corporate'..

Of course all this is to do with taste-and i admit there's certain modern trigger-points which make me reach instantly for the 'stop' button..The generic punk-pop palm-muting /'emo' singing and the overwraught,hyper-earnest cod-souling vocal(available in ALL genres unfortunately) to name but 2..
Even given that,i'd say i've got pretty wide and accessible taste.I mean(like most people) i love a good song,i love tunes which just make intuitive sense and draw you in the first time you hear them.I love suprise,drama,wit and beauty.From digging around i've found loads of brilliant glistening individual songs here and (imho) my stations are full of them.I'm pretty sure that 98% of them have never got within a mile of The Big 50 here as well..

It feels weird then to me,to feel like a total alien and for it to be such a depressing experience listening to the Big 50.As a lover of good songs-something IAC proudly says it supports-i should find lots of nourishment there,but this absoloutly isn't the case..
To me the main thing the Big 50 songs share isn't songwriting quality at all-as i understand it-,but polished 'radio-ready' production..


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Hugh Hamilton

10/29/2007 2:32:21 PM


Drat! I was hoping this blog was about how I could send you THE BIG FIFTY bucks I owe you!

Nice to see you cruising around - congrats on your new computer.

I promised myself I'd stay outta trouble, but I will concur that songs on the Big 50 generally don't grab me. But I don't have a problem with that...I just tend to disregard it. I've also come to disregard the charts, though I was a serious chart-a-holic at first (lol)...the place is all about good music and camaraderie to me now...and I know there's a lot of stuff I really really like - we each get to express our own enjoyment via the stations and shoutboxes and such - to each their own...truly...

Since you're not around so often I'd like to congratulate you on the collabs that you've done with Steve April and that are posted on his page...I've really been enjoying your creativity, Steve!

Now I'm gonna put my helmet and flack jacket back on and dive into that foxhole...

LOL!


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Hugh Hamilton

10/29/2007 2:34:15 PM


P.S. Sounds like the "Big Steve's Big 50" station oughta be opening for business soon...lol...


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Hop On Pop

10/29/2007 2:34:24 PM


Heya Steve,
Haven't seen you around here in a while! Glad that you got the new comp up and running. It's great to have you back.


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10/29/2007 2:43:44 PM


yeah yeah Steve, this is the same thing you were saying a couple years ago. Nice to see you back and participating though even though as usual it's just to bitch about what you think we're doing wrong. heh I remember when I first ran into you online. You'd occasionally make a post like this but more often you were raving about some band you like. What happened to that side ? How come when you post at IAC, we only get the evil twin ? :)

Sure it's a matter of taste but you must not have been listening to mainstream music lately. Now that's formulaic. The Big 50 on the other hand contains a lot of extremely well written songs. Last night in the chat room everybody was diggin' the Top 20 that we played.

You yourself have had 5 songs that made the Big 50 as I recall, do you consider your own music that ?

Personally I have listened to all your stations and while I always find your picks interesting, and I myself tend to agree with you that songwriting doesn't generally get its due on most sites, here we've focused heavily on that. I think you actually take the whole thing too far and seem to even resent acts that HAVE good production.

anyway welcome back to the community !


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10/29/2007 2:47:39 PM


oh and btw, good timing too, just when we were trying to get a new show based on KIAC off the ground! You could've showed up last night to give your support but instead you chose to.. well, whatever you want to call it.


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satch

10/29/2007 2:51:08 PM


While they are (mostly) great to listen to, it is true that most of the songs in the Big 50 are pretty much in the same area in terms of style... though there are a few notable exceptions.
Just scan down the Genres... Indie Rock, Rock, Indie Rock, Alternative Hard Rock, Pop Punk, Pop Rock, Rock, R&B/Soul, something different?, Melodic hard Rock and so on...


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Holo Lukaloa

10/29/2007 3:21:23 PM


Corporate did you say? I listened to the new Big 50 this morning myself as I do almost every week when I have a chance.

Just to name some off the top, are you really calling the songs by DirgeK, The Pet Ghost Project, Infidels, The Bastard Fairies, Pony Up, 20 Pound Shovel, Groundmower, Brush, Mette, Silverfish, Skewer, Stark, Blue Venus, Winston, Peeler, Dean18, Virma, Singleton, and Odd Volume CORPORATE??

I think you're fibbing. I don't think you really even listened. You're just trying to get some attention for yourself.


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DirgeK

10/29/2007 3:47:22 PM


I am very suprised you regard DirgeK's music as 'corporate'. She was a living room and bedroom recorder as yourself, had never been in a recording studio or performed live and collaborated with many different people. Her songs are hardly 'radio ready'. Her lyric writing was very inventive and she used many unusual words which you often need to have a thesaurus with you to fully appreciate them.


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SILVERWOODSTUDIO

10/29/2007 5:00:25 PM


Well i'm not going to put my opinion here as I don't want to incur anyones wrath---but over the year I have noticed that any criticism is met with scathing commemts--------not just from admin!!

This is not healthy folks-------discussion is what it's all about !! not supression!

Discussion is what precedes change , change is neccessary, on any site that wishes to grow-------------------????

If you do what you've always done-----------you'll get what you've always got!!!!!!!


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Troy Beadles

10/29/2007 5:03:35 PM


RIDE THE RIVER, heh


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Steve Ison

10/29/2007 5:03:49 PM


Yeh Hugh,i'm not bothered about chart-placings and stuff either.Seriously tho man-with all the excellent work you've done for me,i don't consider you owe me anything..:)

Todd..Thanks for the kind words and thanks for such a great message on my page,which i hadn't actually seen till 2 days ago-Hope things are going well


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Steve Ison

10/29/2007 5:04:09 PM


Yeh Hugh,i'm not bothered about chart-placings and stuff either.Seriously tho man-with all the excellent work you've done for me,i don't consider you owe me anything..:)

Todd..Thanks for the kind words and thanks for such a great message on my page,which i hadn't actually seen till 2 days ago-Hope things are going well


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10/29/2007 5:12:22 PM


Silverwood Studio, sounds like you're the one who wants to do the suppressing. Since when is it wrong to answer a scathing criticism with a scathing comment?


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qelizabeth

10/29/2007 5:36:26 PM


This is completely off topic I'd like to say that I'm more than delighted that Steve's got a new computer.
You've been so missed by me.

I was gone for a while, and came back only to add so many of my all time favorites. I haven't taken the time to comb through new music, but I will say that I certainly agree that the underground chart has a much better selection.
A lot of what I am drawn too is the lo-fi production of a lot of the underground/bedroom recordings. It feels more intimate to me.

I very much look forward to the moment where I'll have time to explore here. If good music is anywhere, it can be found here.

And, I also look forward to hearing new Steve Ison originals.



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Fade to Black

10/29/2007 5:47:14 PM


Sacred Cow


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Steve Ison

10/29/2007 5:54:09 PM


Scott..Well i guess we'll just have to beg to differ..
I never even knew about the show last night,but in all honesty it'd be difficult for me to support it if i don't believe in the tracks(the Big 50) ,which is (presumably) the flagship music that will represent IAC to the greater world.
I'm intensely driven to see more creative,magical songs get wider recognition in the world too-but don't see my taste(which isn't exactly extreme lol) represented at all by the big 50.
Sorry Music's L.A.L.A,Azwels The Unexplainable and Tom Archer and The Magicals Anna Lee or Noel Cowards Ghosts No One's Looking At THe Rain for example-all from the underground 40-
All accesible songs..Why couldn't they be given the Big 50 spotlight?
It almost seems anything slightly quirky,strange or rough-round the edges-or (MAINLY) not totally 'radio-ready' production-wise isn't considered for there.Those are the exact qualities i love about indie music and make it special,so to see them ignored here i think is a big mistake..

Anyway,as i've said before,i think IAC is a brilliant site for making stations-looks great-and the functionality,features for writing etc is wonderful,so its not all a dis lol
Taking the pictures off the station headings isn't great tho imho and destroys some of the personality


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10/29/2007 6:03:47 PM


well too bad you wouldn't support the show because we did play a whole bunch of songs by community members, but anyway, that's probably the essence for why we've chosen to discontinue it, we would need most everyone to support it to make it a worthwhile thing. Well, we tried, anyway..

Didn't you get your IAC newsletter? It was sent to everybody, check your spam filter. We're asking people to reupload their pictures, we had a system failure and a lot of pics were lost.


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Steve Ison

10/29/2007 6:09:14 PM


Well Holo i did listen-and i thought what i thought..I'd certainly like attention to the topic under discussion f'sure...
Maybe you and i have got very different tastes,but on Bowie-mentioned in your blog we certainly havn't..That kind of inspirational memorable STRANGE individual pop music ,like the singles he released at his peak is definitely awol as far as i can hear there..


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SILVERWOODSTUDIO

10/29/2007 6:14:48 PM


Toby------fair enough!

It didn't seem to supress you tho'

wet bus tickets at 50 metres?


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10/29/2007 6:15:33 PM


I also don't see why you consider making the Underground 40 to be "ignored". Many of those songs not only made the Underground 40 but have been featured on Hitline at various times.


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Troy Beadles

10/29/2007 6:16:39 PM


Ugh, bad news I was looking forward to the Party Scott. All of us on had a blast!


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Jeff Allen Myers

10/29/2007 6:55:23 PM


Personally I find all this negativity a Drag....

I also find it very disappointing that you have made a decision not to continue the show, it hasn't even been 24 hours.... You got that much negative feedback???
Every thing needs time to gain any traction or Momentum.

Steve, I have not had the pleasure of meeting you or listening to your music as yet, but please do not get caught up on the Big 50. Indie music is not about charts.... As far as the sound and production? I am in full agreement with you. The songs do sound radio ready, but who said Indie music should not be radio ready? Indie means "Independent" of the huge record labels, and it is good to hear songs that are produced just as good as the Big Boys.

Fact is, we want to attract the average "Music Fan" to this site, The Big 50 will be the first place they go, and if the music does not sound as good as what they hear on the radio, they will simply go elswhere. Sad but true...the average music fan is into sound over content. Now, if they like what they hear, they might stay and poke around and find all the Great music here that is not as polished! I consider my stuff in that vein. I do it all in the Bedroom, and the Lack of real Drums on my recordings keep them from being "Radio Ready" :) What I noticed about the big 50, is they all have them.

The underground 40 is just as prominent on the front page, if it covers the rest of us "Community Members: That would be great!!

This is a great site, it offers so much to the independent musician.writer.home studio recordist. There is room here for the Polished and the rough. Gems can be found in both.

Regards,

Jeff





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Steve Ison

10/29/2007 6:56:18 PM


Eliz..Well i certainly wish you were picking THe Big 50!!
I totally agree what you say about about the intimacy of alot of lofi/bedroom recordings-I think its a huge asset to indie music that should be celebrated not ignored..I just flicked on your blog and found another ace Underground 40 one that should be BIG 50 is Great Centrals Five or so years :)


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Steve Ison

10/29/2007 7:29:17 PM


Jeff..I certainly don't have any problem about indie songs being produced as well as the majors

"Fact is, we want to attract the average "Music Fan" to this site, The Big 50 will be the first place they go, and if the music does not sound as good as what they hear on the radio, they will simply go elswhere. Sad but true...the average music fan is into sound over content. Now, if they like what they hear, they might stay and poke around and find all the Great music here that is not as polished!"

I agree that the average 'music fan' is into Sound Over Content (Which is the Big 50 imo), but pre-supposing a person with clear channel taste is then gonna spend time sniffing around for rough-edged gems here seems far fetched indeed..

Surely any non-indie musician who'd actually bother treading off the beaten track to find artists they've never read/heard about is gonna be someone seriously into music as a personal journey of discovery for them(like qelizabeth).They're gonna be looking for individual creative qualities/soul/magic/invention..Not a Facsimile of what they already get spoon fed by Uncle Corporate.
I reckon these are the listeners IAC has a better chance of courting..


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Stegor

10/29/2007 7:53:06 PM


I was really hoping Scott was joking about discontinuing the show, even though it obviously wasn't very funny! Unless it requires resources that are beyond the scope of IAC it makes no sense to discontinue it because it's the coolest development since I jumped in back at the beginning of the year.

When I first visited here I went straight for the Underground 40. I avoided the Big 50 and I still do, because I'm always looking for the hidden gems. I commented on a related blog that I enjoyed the songs by the community members on the show more than the chart toppers. No surprise to me.

However, there are some gems on the Big 50 too, accompanied by some very mainstream sounding stuff. I'm very careful not to criticize what's on the Big 50, because I might be there someday. It's like class warfare. Don't hate the rich - in case you become rich someday.

-Stegor


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Holo Lukaloa

10/29/2007 8:29:04 PM


Steve Ison,

I still think despite you claiming to have listened, to call those acts I mentioned corporate or like Clear Channel is just foolish. I am certain you didn't actually listen to them. Which does raise the question of what your actual point of posting this is. Looking at your page it appears you've done very well at this site yet the message you're sending, that you won't support the artists here unless the site features who you want it to feature is selfish and petty. If it's true that you've had 5 Big 50 songs yourself, you're really coming off like a weenie.


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10/29/2007 8:37:34 PM


Steve I, What clearchannel station are you listening to? It must be different from the ones on my dial because I'd take KIAC any day over those.


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The Man With No Band

10/29/2007 9:23:33 PM


I'll admit I am not a big fan of the "Big 50" but it's all a matter of choice.
That's what I love about this site, there is so much here for everyone.
Every now and then I hear something on the big 50 that I like, but over-all it is not my preference.
The programmers here sure have different taste in music than I do and I wouldn't consider their big 50 as my big 50. But does that make them wrong ? I don't think so... How do you put up everyone's big 50 ?
We all have different styles and different taste. I now NEVER listen to the radio so I could not tell you what is or is not mainstream radio sound.
I only know what I like and that's what I listen to... and my listening taste are very broad and growing everyday..
I do wish they would vary the variety of the big 50 more to my liking but heh, it's their show.. so I'll find my listening pleasure elsewhere on this site.
I have written hundreds of songs in my lifetime and I know that none of them will probably reach the big 50 here ... So what ? I know a lot of them are every bit as good as what's on the big 50 but I do not have the money, the contacts, the equipment or the knowledge to have a polished sound... but that's my problem, not theirs.


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SILVERWOODSTUDIO

10/29/2007 9:33:15 PM


Sam I totally agree with what you just put up!

can I add for everyone! ------it is quite possible to disagree with folk without calling names or insulting them.
When you do that, it says more about youself, than it does about them! If I sound like an old teacher, telling off the class, that's because I am!


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10/29/2007 11:19:23 PM


Interesting that this Ison character proclaims he hasn't been to the site in a long while - couldn't be bothered, one supposes from the subtext - , and then proceeds to go out of his way to insult IAC and the entire community and staff, not to mention all of the artists who are, ever have been, or ever will be or aspire to be on the Big 50. If he were the ambassador of Indie music he claims to be, he might instead have said something like I've missed it, it's good to be back, or the like, and then pointed us to the new discoveries that caught his ear, with some specific instances and reasons. But what he bestowed upon us instead was a pedantic lecturing harangue on why it's all going to hell and how he told you so. This is the elitism we find in those who can't, as opposed to those who can, and do. It's snobbery or the worst order and if it were totally up to me I'd kick his ass out of here.

One unwritten rule which everyone has abided by from day one here is that this isn't a place where we diss other artists' music. We talk about what we like, and we offer constructive criticism. I can't think of anyone who has breached this until today.


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savage

10/29/2007 11:36:40 PM


I'm not really sure who decides the big 50 but I aggree theres a lot better music based on creativity and songwritting to be found here
I had my run ins with the staff here over our votes or ratings suddenly changing
I got the feeling they didn't like conflict
so thats all I have to say about that
as for musical talent
the best is always were you least expected to find it


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10/29/2007 11:49:36 PM


Do we look like we don't like conflict, really? Pay attention! :D Wasn't conflict we didn't like, it was the bogus accusations you made. If you're gonna make paranoid, unfounded accusations, expect to be responded to. On other sites where they have businesspeople running things, they will kiss your ass when you show displeasure, or just never respond at all cause they don't even pay attention. This site was founded by artists and we don't treat people who are raising skewed issues with kid gloves. You should appreciate that we deal with things straight on and don't pussyfoot around. We don't hold grudges either. As we said from Day 1 here.





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Jeff Allen Myers

10/30/2007 12:44:31 AM


pedantic lecturing harangue

Mr.Walton, Those three words have rhythm, and I dig it :)


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10/30/2007 3:53:59 AM


Steve, I have recently been reviewing HITLINE songs every day for my HITLINE REVIEWS Station...many of these are former BIG 50s. This is a strange experience for me as these songs have been chosen by someone else Not me yet I feel I must seek out the part of each song that has appeal because I want to give a positive vibe for the site as this is their shopwindow as it were. Fortunately I very rarely find a song that I am unable to extract some sort of unique feature to hone in on. I am also listening and liking songs that I would not have formally touched with a bargepole, so it's an educational experience I'd recommend

My own music (the stuff I write and produce) is much more up your stylistic alley and you have said so many times, thank you. All I want to say here is that sometimes you need to push old habits preferences and predudices aside and listen in a different way it can be so subtle, just a twist in timing, an alien instrument, en emotional electrode, a dry wit, a hidden riff plugging away in the subconcious.

Of course I noticed that Rock/Pop featured above certain other genres but look closely and you also see "Alternative" is a common addition. I have just opened the HITLINE FRINGE Station which may include more Ison icons - and I realise that "Fringe" is not the right way to describe these songs. I'm open to suggestions on that one - Jillianne Wright (JAWZ)

NB I know you were a respected artist so I'd hate to see this image damaged for the sake of a little stuborn opinionation


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satch

10/30/2007 4:44:27 AM


Wow - well this is a right old can of worms been opened here! Firstly it is refreshing to read so many posts by people calmly expressing their truths - good stuff!

I think that the real point of this is that iac has a mission and the content of the Big 50 is chosen to reflect that mission. I may be wrong, but it does seem to be that songs are selected that are radio-ready and well-produced... which imho is a really good thing. I do not have the faith that Steve Ison has in the average listener to get past music that is not clear and easy to listen to, music that is not produced to the standards set down by the major labels and the big artists for all these decades! People have got used to the clarity and fidelity of all those amazing records that have been about for so long - songs that do not measure up to those standards will simply not be listened to by your average Mr Public-non-Musician.

Further, there is no real excuse for NOT putting out well-produced music. Us independent artists have all the tools at our disposal these days, for amazingly cheap outlays in the world of computers and daws. All it takes is talent, skill, vision, care, attention to detail - and most importantly - taking the time to get past the initial buzz of creativity to reach that point of objectivity about the music! Don't write, record and post a song in a couple of hours, as excited as you may be about it - the song we have just written, in those wonderful almost post-coital moments after we hear it for the first time, is always the best song ever, so far! But take time, leave it for a couple of days, get some perspective, re-visit it, and you will start to create songs that will stand the test of time!

Sure, there are artists who deliberately produce lower fidelity music - but even that is an art form and a lot of care goes in to create a lo-fi sound that can be appreciated, that enhances the song.

I too would like to see more variety in the Big 50, but it isn't up to me - so all I can do is express my view that more variety will attract more listeners! For example, at present there are 2 songs from Country, 1 "soft and soothing lullaby", 1 from R+B and 46 from Rock, Pop and Alternative.... so why should someone into World or Folk or Classical listen to the Big 50?

Anyhow, I rant... my point really was that it is good to foster a culture of expression, even if disagreements are rife. As long as people are respectful of others, I see no problem!

btw we once had our Cosmic World Fusion song "I Think of You" in the Big 50, it was damn exciting, and it sounded as good as anything else in there - even as a 128kbps MP3 :)


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Steve Ison

10/30/2007 4:53:53 AM


"Looking at your page it appears you've done very well at this site yet the message you're sending, that you won't support the artists here unless the site features who you want it to feature is selfish and petty. If it's true that you've had 5 Big 50 songs yourself, you're really coming off like a weenie."

I never said 'i won't support the artists here unless..'
I supported IAC even when i wasn't coming here by recommending new artists from other sites to Scott and i've got a load of stations all with loving song reviews,so i've always supported it on that level.
As i said before,this discussion isn't about me.I've always been treated very well by iac and by other artists here-am grateful for that and have no complaints.


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Steve Ison

10/30/2007 6:03:46 AM


"Interesting that this Ison character proclaims he hasn't been to the site in a long while - couldn't be bothered, one supposes from the subtext - , and then proceeds to go out of his way to insult IAC and the entire community and staff, not to mention all of the artists who are, ever have been, or ever will be or aspire to be on the Big 50. If he were the ambassador of Indie music he claims to be, he might instead have said something like I've missed it, it's good to be back, or the like, and then pointed us to the new discoveries that caught his ear, with some specific instances and reasons. But what he bestowed upon us instead was a pedantic lecturing harangue on why it's all going to hell and how he told you so. This is the elitism we find in those who can't, as opposed to those who can, and do. It's snobbery or the worst order and if it were totally up to me I'd kick his ass out of here.

One unwritten rule which everyone has abided by from day one here is that this isn't a place where we diss other artists' music. We talk about what we like, and we offer constructive criticism. I can't think of anyone who has breached this until today"

Well i think it would reflect on IAC pretty badly if i had 'my ass kicked out of here' (lol) for expressing a heartfelt opinion just 'cos it didn't

I actually do like IAC as a site alot(i wouldn't be here if i didn't),have alot of respect for Scott-but was shocked and suprised that there was nothing i could genuinelly love on The Big 50.Especially because (as i said) i love interesting,well written songs,which is,i thought part of their mission statement to support.
As this is their shop window to the wider world and advertising the music as the cream of indie,it seems an area worth fighting for.
For me,it seems unjust that brilliant,creative songs can be ignored by the Big 50 here in favour of far weaker,generic ones that only have good production going for them imo.

From some of the things said here it seems that if you're not expressing a 'positive' message in posts you're painted as some kind of Satan.
I don't consider myself rude or inflammatory for the sake of it,but am equally not gonna fudge on something i believe passionately in either in case i offend anyone.
.
I guess you missed the irony of spending half your post lecturing me on how i 'should've' behaved then the rest accusing me of 'pedantic lecturing'.


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the kozy king

10/30/2007 8:31:33 AM


Great thread!

"A kick in the ass is better than no fight at all." Eh Steve?

As for the Big 50...

"You'll never go broke underestimating the public." As they say in Hollywood!

Lighten up a bit tho' pal -- there's always a few good ones in there for anyone.

Same goes for the Underground -- usually just a few that turn my crank.


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10/30/2007 1:30:28 PM


Steve, you can only be successfully painted as Satan if others can see your horns. That's up to you to contemplate whether or not that is happening and why.

You're representing yourself as somebody who has somewhat of a grudge issue here. Between the time you left bitching about the Big 50 and the time you got back bitching about the Big 50, absolutely no one has written us about these issues you have to any extent remotely comparable. I'm sorry but it is a downright fact that every individual who clicks on this site has a different view about what songs are the best. You have made this some kind of personal thing and what you really should do is, if you like the Underground 40 better, tune in to that instead. That's what it's there for. Put music on your stations and devote energy to them like you used to and they get very popular and your agenda is completely served. All you're really doing by this kind of harping is undermining a lot of hard work that is being put into the features here. You know yourself it's hard work because you have done some song picking yourself back in the day and got tired of doing it. I understand from Scott that you have contributed a great deal to this site but the kind of nit-picky thing you're undertaking here isn't really a positive thing. Along with the KIAC Big 50, the Genres charts and Underground 40 are right there with them, and get comparable exposure. In fact, the genre charts are as high profile as anything on the site. Sooo I suggest you will be far happier with the state of things here if you didn't focus on the Big 50 so much, IAC is quite aware that listeners find their own brand of music here wherever they can, that's really what the site is about, not just one chart.

Also as official historian of the feature charts, I want to say that I was looking back and found these gems on past Big 50s

Steve Ison - If I Met You Again peaked at #2
Steve Ison - Lou Reed peaked at #13
Steve Ison - Love's Dangerous peaked at #23
Steve Ison - Scenes From Palacio peaked at #33
Steve Ison - Girl on the Train peaked at #45

Hm, I see what you mean, this songs are so very corporate sounding. :D

The procedure and personnel involved in compiling the KIAC Big 50 are virtually identical now to when it first started, 160 weeks ago. You can go listen to Platinum Hits (a special chart we have on Cashbox) and you will find the identical format on KIAC as there is right now. Back then you said ..

"The music's such a ridiculously high quality...I was listening to the top 50 and thinkin' how it just totally blows away anything the majors have to offer.." - Steve Ison

Methinks IAC hasn't changed at all. Perhaps though, you have.


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10/30/2007 2:34:37 PM


The key irony is that of a professed artist presuming to define for everyone else just what is acceptable as art.


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Steve Ison

10/30/2007 5:46:58 PM


"Steve, I have recently been reviewing HITLINE songs every day for my HITLINE REVIEWS Station...many of these are former BIG 50s. This is a strange experience for me as these songs have been chosen by someone else Not me yet I feel I must seek out the part of each song that has appeal because I want to give a positive vibe for the site as this is their shopwindow as it were. Fortunately I very rarely find a song that I am unable to extract some sort of unique feature to hone in on. I am also listening and liking songs that I would not have formally touched with a bargepole, so it's an educational experience I'd recommend

My own music (the stuff I write and produce) is much more up your stylistic alley and you have said so many times, thank you. All I want to say here is that sometimes you need to push old habits preferences and predudices aside and listen in a different way it can be so subtle, just a twist in timing, an alien instrument, en emotional electrode, a dry wit, a hidden riff plugging away in the subconcious."



Jilliane..That sounds great you're doing the Hitline reviews-Doing reviews is a gift to other musicians- but thats definitely not for me.
I love writing positively if i dig the song, then its a joy.To try and sift for fragments like a bassline or a guitar lick in something i actively dislike or find mediocre isn't my idea of fun tho.The times i've done that kind of thing(a few years ago online to gain acceptance from my peers generally) i found really depressing.
Good luck with it tho..

I listen all the time tho and am always open to be turned on to new things.

"NB I know you were a respected artist so I'd hate to see this image damaged for the sake of a little stuborn opinionation"

If anyone wanted to re-assess whatever they thought about my my music based on opinions i express here, thats up to them i s'pose..but i think it'd say more about them as people.



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Steve Ison

10/30/2007 6:02:35 PM


"my point really was that it is good to foster a culture of expression, even if disagreements are rife."

I totally agree Satch-Its got to be healthy.
I'll take that liberty myself anyway,whether its deemed socially acceptable or not lol


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Steve Ison

10/30/2007 6:15:23 PM


"Artist ears are way different from non-artist ears. And in the mass produced processed cheese world we live in today, it is not easy to break through those ears with lo-fi production. Everything in life is "slick" these days"

I agree Larree...But there are non-musicians like Elizabeth Solako (Slow Commotion station) who come here because they want to find creative/soul qualities in music they don't get from the majors.
There are some people who arn't obsesssed with the surface of the music.(Actually she IS an artist,so you might have a point)


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Gary Stockton

10/30/2007 6:26:54 PM


I'm skipping through the big 50 and there does appear to be a lot of corporate brickwall metered stuff there, but then there are songs like the one from DirgeK "Coming Home" that jump out at ya, it's mix n match. Could it be that many of these B50 artists are mirroring what they are hearing on FM?

I hope someday I can pen and record a tune that is diverse enough to make it onto any one of these prime lists, but until that day I'll just concentrate on my stuff, winning little victories along the way.. (Was added to Cashbox Top Pop Picks the other day and am #2 this week), get influenced by all the great sounds on I run accross on here. I find a lot of great music, and generally a very supportive community ready to help. One artist even put together a station where he only plays songs from artists that he has actually paid for, and I think that's the sort of thing we really need.


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fly on the wall

10/30/2007 6:32:07 PM


"The times i've done that kind of thing(a few years ago online to gain acceptance from my peers generally) i found really depressing.
Good luck with it tho.."

Do you have any idea how condescending you come off? I bet not. Take heed, there's a putrid smell eminating from your personality.


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The Man With No Band

10/30/2007 6:37:16 PM


The Big 50 is small potatoes on the front page anyway... I come here for those super cool BUBBLES on the black background !!!! :)


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Steve Ison

10/30/2007 7:07:44 PM


""The music's such a ridiculously high quality...I was listening to the top 50 and thinkin' how it just totally blows away anything the majors have to offer.." - Steve Ison

Methinks IAC hasn't changed at all. Perhaps though, you have. "

I have to confess Toby-ashamed as i am to say it-i hadn't actually listened to The Big 50 when i made that comment.I think i saw Biography Of Ferns or BackBone Shiver at the top or something-knew i liked them and just presumed that the rest of the chart would be great too.I was high on the IDEAL of what i thought IAC represented so said that just to show support.
When i actually DID listen i felt very differently..

I guess me and you 'n' Scott have very different taste,thats all (tho i know me n Scott share alot of songs we love-very few of those make the Big 50 tho)

What someone thinks constitutes a 'great song' is so totally open to interpretation tho,i admit..
For me,its not enough to hear yet another reasonably crafted,reasonably catchy song-professionally played/produced in a very over-familiar, generic modern american pop,rock,'soul' acoustic or country style. I hear those kinda tracks all over the Big 50.
To you they might well be great,but i admit i just don't get it..And from a few other stray voices here,i'm obviously not the only one.

Thanks for bringing up those songs of mine,but I'm amazed-given what i hear there-any of them made the 50 here at all.They'd stick out like a sore-thumb if any were included in last weeks one i listened to,thats f'sure.
Purely on the fact none of them are professionally 'radio-ready'-or mastered to super-high volume in the way all the other songs are on there.

Of course i'd be delighted if other tracks made it there that didn't rigidly fit a pre-designed 'radio-ready' mould set by the majors 'cos you believed in them as songs.



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Steve Ison

10/30/2007 7:18:03 PM


"The times i've done that kind of thing(a few years ago online to gain acceptance from my peers generally) i found really depressing.
Good luck with it tho.."

Do you have any idea how condescending you come off? I bet not. Take heed, there's a putrid smell eminating from your personality.

I certainly wasn't insinuating that Jillianne was doing her review station with the same motives i did for mine back then(if thats what you thought)-From what i know of her personality i'm sure she isn't.
The comment was meant at my expense-not hers..
I've genuinelly got total respect and admiration for anyone here who spends their time reviewing other peoples music..


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10/30/2007 8:24:31 PM


"I have to confess Toby-ashamed as i am to say it-i hadn't actually listened to The Big 50 when i made that comment."

How convenient. Likewise it was surely just a coincidence that you turned bitter towards the Big 50 immediately after your song Love's Dangerous started falling on the chart, presumably quicker than you had hoped.

Of course you'd prefer if your friends picked the Big 50, because they like Steve Ison better.

I also agree with Holo that you surely didn't listen this time either. As you just admitted yourself, you talk out your butt. Can you really define DirgeK's song as corporate Clear Channel music, or the Bastard Fairies', or Pony Up's, or Winston's, or Stark's? Only if you didn't listen.

I find nothing constructive in your spiel here. It is elitest bunk, as Dave said. This isn't really about honest criticism, there are other respectful ways to go about that. Rather, it's about sour grapes in disguise.


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Steve Ison

10/30/2007 8:48:37 PM


Hey,it was you who brought up my songs and and the Big 50 -Not me..
As if i was bothered about Love's Dangerous 'falling down the charts'-lol...To tell you the truth i can't even remember.

Of course it could only be 'elitist bunk' for anyone to have any reaction other than totally 'positive' to the selections(presumably made by the elite here) of what gets into the big 50 ..Of course..

The general criticism about there being a helluva lot of generic music there stands-other people here have said as much here too,so its certainly not just me thinking it.
I can't comment on every single entry,just my GENERAL impression which definitely felt corporate..

And yes i did listen this time..


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10/30/2007 9:18:14 PM


So we should believe you, this time.

And just ignore that other time.

When you were, by your own admission, lying.


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10/30/2007 9:27:21 PM


If he was listening, it was with the volume off. haha

"Of course it could only be 'elitist bunk' for anyone to have any reaction other than totally 'positive' to the selections(presumably made by the elite here) of what gets into the big 50 ..Of course.."

Now, Steve, do you really think anyone at all likes every song that's picked as a feature here ? Do you think they'd like every song if you picked them yourself ? Of course not. It would be crazy for anyone to think that, or to think that IAC expects that listeners will love every or even most songs on any chart or list. Taste in music is so varied, we're all probably lucky if we hear one song out of 10 in any list known to man that hits the right chord for us. The difference is, everyone else in this community isn't dissing the artists who make it on the big 50 or the efforts of IAC staff, for that matter. You are. It's not about having to be positive, it's about that everyone else in the community is respectful to the music on the site while you seem to need to show your deep contempt for some of it. Your opinion is that IAC needs to pick songs you like, with the same standards you have, or they're too corporate or whatever other dismissal you throw out there. Of course we understand that the Big 50 may not be everyone's cup of tea - it's music, to each his or her own. Everyone seems to get that but you. You clearly have a case of Big 50 fixation, and while we're flattered, we wish we could find you a new girlfriend !


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the kozy king

10/30/2007 11:10:17 PM


Dear kids:

Let's just leave it at

"A kick in the ass is better than no fight at all"

And

"You'll never go broke underestimating the public".

Covers everything...

Best thread ever -- I love drama -- but...

ENOUGH ALREADY!!

(All of you).

Go to your rooms.

Love, Dad


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10/31/2007 1:13:22 AM


Go to bed, pops, it's past your bedtime. Don't forget your earplugs ! :)


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Jeff Allen Myers

10/31/2007 2:37:44 AM


Steve,

You won "Best Male Artist" , You have a load of Stations playing your songs, you were on the Big 50..... I believe this site has Treated you quite well.....

You admit to not being around for awhile, but when you come back the first thing you do with your new Computer is bash this site?

While I respect your opinions and can agree on some of the songs on the Big 50, a Bitch fest on the front page is not productive, if anything its alienating.

The internet and Sites Like IAC are a Godsend to Artist/writers like me. Otherwise my music would never have escaped my Bedroom. The Big 50 is but a small part of this site, it only scratches the surface....Their is true Gold here.

IAC is a great site, from the functionality provided and the songs posted by some very creative people.. Get back to your roots Steve, its about the music! I


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DirgeK

10/31/2007 4:37:36 AM


I can't believe that you were critising other people's songs and choices and then admit that you never even listened to them. I think your post was just your own music promo in disguise. How can anyone take your comments seriously after that ?


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the kozy king

10/31/2007 8:03:11 AM


Good shot Father time!

(sigh) I'll mind my own business now...

Wake me up in the morning. (yawn)

Thanks.


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Tony Vani and Debbie Hoskin

10/31/2007 8:17:26 AM


I think strong differing opinions are a great thing and we see lots of lots here.

Steve, I think the problem is in the way you delivered your opinion. It was expressed aggressivly as a personal attack. Your tone was offensive. It must have been an impulsive decision to post that blog because you didn't have much to back your opinion. Someone must have peed in your cheerio's that morning.

I hope you can learn to express your feelings in a more respectful way in the future. I'm sure it's very draining for you to now have to answer to all of these people firing back at you, with the same aggression and disrespect that you started out with. If we give disrespect, we get it back in return. It's exhausting.

deb


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qelizabeth

10/31/2007 9:25:23 AM


steve's right.


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satch

10/31/2007 10:17:47 AM


QE - right and wrong are conceptual constructs based on the values held by each of us as individuals. In other words, what is "right" for one person can, with total validity, be "wrong" for another.

The true criterion is to allow and respect the concept and expression of right and wrong in all people and by all people, as much as we can in our earthly state as mere mortals!

btw have you heard the music of Susan Raven?
well you have to try, right? :)


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Tony Vani and Debbie Hoskin

10/31/2007 11:33:00 AM


Yes, and have you heard the music of Tony and deb? You may or may not like it. Either is fine. :-) deb


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Tony Vani and Debbie Hoskin

10/31/2007 11:41:55 AM


Larreee! You are slipping! You forgot to mention to BUY F.U.C.K. It would've been a perfect opportunity. LOL


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JOHN FRY

10/31/2007 12:40:07 PM


Hello everyone, I'm in the band Fuji Minx (wait for applause) o.k. Let me get this strait, if your on THE BIG 50 CHART you fall under the big sleazy "corporate" umbrella, according to S.I.. I think we all have our definition of what "corporate sound" is. The problem for me, in this conversation is I have two. The first being, cookie cutter, just like the last hit on the radio sound. And second, an excelence in standards. i.e. state of the art sound. In the band Fuji Minx, we strove for the ladder. Don't get me wrong I love garage punk rock. Use to be in one. And there is a place for the lo-fi sound. Some people prefer it. But to say lo-fi is superior, or any type of sound is superior to another one. Is the equivalent of musical racism.
It's a biggoted opinion . I love the great Rock Stars of the 60's and 70'. There was a standard then. And when I write and play, that standard is in my d.n.a. and it drives my heel. Steve Ison probably hates my band Fuji Minx, because we hit No. 1 on the BIG 50. But Steve I'm here to say we are not a sleazy "corp." band . But a band that does strive for excelence, in our own way.


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10/31/2007 12:44:21 PM


It's nice that you want to back your friend, qelizabeth, but I just checked out your station that's streaming on your page and 12 out of the 25 artists on it have been on the Big 50.


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DirgeK

11/1/2007 4:26:54 AM


Jeff, you said your songs are not 'radio ready' as they are recorded in the bedroom and don't have real drums. DirgeK's songs were also recorded at home but the drums on 'Coming Home' and a lot of her songs are done by Fred E Jam a veteran drummer of 30 years experience from Detroit, and are real quality drumming. He runs a music collaboration site and is always looking for new people to collaborate with. You can find the links to his site and his KIAC site on Dirge K's page.
DK's mum


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