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Scott
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12/19/2018 1:58:43 AM
What aspects of a song do you value most?
Was talking to an artist friend today about this. If you took all the aspects of a song, where would you put them in order of importance?
Here's the elements i can think of.
songwriting (melody)
songwriting (chords)
lyrics
vocal performances
instrumental performances
rhythm/groove
production values
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The GeeBees
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12/19/2018 3:40:42 AM
That's a rather clinical approach to rating a piece of music
Those elements would not work for many genres. What you admire most about a Rock song for instance wouldn't be the same as a traditional Folk song or some grand orchestral production.
One good element, say vocal or instrumental performance can mask others like production or lyrics. It's possible to enjoy a song just because the rhythm gets you jumping or the singer turns you on.
I'd have to make my own list of what I find important in a song.
1) Does it spark my imagination
2) Does it stimulate an emotion
3) Does it have tingly highs and sultry lows
4) Does it stay with me afterwards
5) Does it sound like nothing I heard before
6) Do I absolutely have to stay until the end
7) Does it leave my open mouthed and humbled
8) Does it make me want to research the people involved
9) Will it stand the test of time
10) Did I write it myself. Even though I'm not a musician, technician, singer or performer I simply enjoy the achievement of making something I'm proud of.... even if no-one else can hear in it what I'm hearing.
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Ben Elliot
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12/19/2018 3:51:35 AM
These arent necessarily the most important in my view but tend to structure the process in terms of the order I do things which has a direct relationship with time spent and levels of motivation...
- that original idea that gets you excited (incl. chords and melody)
- instrumentation
- production
- vocal performance
- the rest of the song's chords and melody
- structure
- lyrics
- finishing the song/recording
- realising I don't like the mix/performance/song elements and a) going back and fiddling with stuff for ages b) never touch it again despite being 99% finished.
It's not the most efficient or effective way, but I get there in the end..... Sometimes.
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Scott
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12/19/2018 4:54:22 AM
well I wasn't thinking of them as criteria, just sort of what does one value the most in the average song they listen to. My friend seems to think production values and instrumental performance are at the top while I put those near the bottom.
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Scott
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12/19/2018 4:56:18 AM
The ones you listed in your first post are more from a listener's vantage point, what do you want to make the listener feel. Of course you're good enough to achieve those things if you set out to.
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The GeeBees
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12/19/2018 7:22:18 AM
---- Updated 12/19/2018 7:28:19 AM
Hmm, well from an artist's perspective I would definitely value the skill of playing an INSTRUMENT highly (if I could do that)
CHORDS and MELODY kind of play together but each can be a feature too
I value LYRICS but often the clever ones don't lend themselves to being sung.
I don't rate VOCAL PERFORMANCE highly, it's very subjective - but I try not to be flat :)
RHYTHM/GROOVE Using preset synths I don't have much scope so I usually manipulate whatever I can find. I love when I accidentally produce a good riff.
PRODUCTION seems to be important if you don't want to draw attention to yourself at the expense of the better aspects. Who want's hiss, hum and crackle or low vocals or anything ear splitting?
At the end of the day, if your values are different from a listeners then you'll always be rating them for yourself alone. If you care about being listened to then you might have to rate elements quite differently.
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Scott
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12/19/2018 9:07:47 AM
Seems to me you should trust your own sensibilities and not try to produce songs guessing what others might like.
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Shoe City Sound
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12/19/2018 9:41:03 AM
To me it's one element - harmony. That includes any genre, vocal harmonies, a brilliant rhythm chord progression on guitar or piano (my absolute favorite), accidental harmonies that result from different tracks in a song coinciding. I love harmony so much, it takes me a while to even register lyrics to know what the song is about. I value great production so much, but don't even miss it if the harmonies are beautiful.
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Larree
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12/19/2018 11:29:52 AM
The royalty check.
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Bryon Tosoff
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12/19/2018 11:39:39 AM
Larree! Best answer
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Richard Scotti
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12/19/2018 1:21:24 PM
---- Updated 12/19/2018 5:48:12 PM
Without the artistic essentials, the royalties will never come.
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Hop On Pop
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12/19/2018 1:37:00 PM
I was talking about this with my wife yesterday.
One of my songs seems to be a favorite among a certain group of my friends/fans, and it is NOT one of mine. At all.
Why?
I just don't really connect with it when I sing it. I mean, the story is okay. The melody is catchy. But, it does nothing for me on an emotional level when I sing it.
So, I guess, when it comes down to it, that is the key. I just need to connect to it. On some level.
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Richard Scotti
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12/19/2018 5:53:49 PM
A song has to make me feel something and/or stimulate me intellectually. If it makes me want to dance or move with the groove, that's good too!
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Bryon Tosoff
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12/19/2018 6:25:19 PM
Richard provided a listeners feelings, I concur, his statement is the most effective evaluation. how does the song music whatever make you feel, what is your emotional connection to it, perhaps sometimes we can become too analytical, rather then emotionally connect with what we are hearing, Richard really nailed it in a simple statement, although as producers or musicians we think differently and sometimes let the clinical aspect get in the way of delivering the message in whatever form it may be, whether an instrumental or as a songcrafter. Music comes in many sizes shapes and sounds.
As a promoter of musicians songs,( going on 20 years doing it) I have a pretty good sense and grasp of what I think the gatekeepers in the "radio" biz would like. Today though is a whole different landscape, so many various platforms, even in pitching ones songs to curators or owners of "stations" outside of the FM AM radio realm ,its truly an eye opening experience with the new way of doing things
But getting back to the point. everything stated above is critical to success and everyone provided outstanding examples.
For me though, since I am more an instrumentalist, and thrive on producing melodic works which mainly are piano driven, I can't really say much in this area cause I am still learning and have a ways to go learning this production craft, on the few songs I have produced with other musicians. But I strive to do the best I can, and deliver what I feel is who I am.
cheers and much success to you all
bryon
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Richard Scotti
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12/19/2018 9:03:02 PM
Although I provided a listener's point of view I also apply this view toward the music I write, produce and play. Whenever i create something as a music maker I put myself in the shoes of the music consumer. I ask myself if what I'm creating would please me if I heard it on the radio from a source other than me. My aim is to make the kind of music that I would like to hear. When I hear the play back of what I recorded I ask myself if this is something I would turn up on a car radio or raise the volume on my TV remote control. I want to put out music that I feel needs to be put out because there is a lack of it. Without soul, a song is not alive. A song should feel "true" but truth is ultimately subjective and open to interpretation.
Getting back to Scott's question - this would be the order I put these things in -
although in some sense they are all equally important in creating a quality product.
If one element is totally out of whack it can cause the whole song to be a disappointment regardless of how good everything else is. I guess you could say that giving equal weight to all the elements of the song is a holistic approach to song writing. Of course this is just my opinion and not a meant as a proclamation!:-)
1) song writing (chords)
2) song writing (melody)
3) lyrics
4) vocal performances
5) rhythm/groove
6) instrumental performances
7) production values
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Old Gold
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12/19/2018 11:46:25 PM
THE TITLE
THE HOOK
THE LENGTH
THE ARTIST
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Chandra Moon
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12/20/2018 3:28:07 AM
Interesting thread! So different from different people.
For me personally it's
What inspired the song
The lyrics
The rhythm
The melody
The backing
To me if the FEELING of the song and the intention is there the rest is completely secondary. Of course technique and ability playing an instrument is important but it's at the very bottom of my list. That can come later or even be done by others but the SONG itself and how it touches people, is what counts. Some songs seem to come through us rather than from us,
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Stoneman
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12/27/2018 12:19:06 AM
I like unique cord progressions and thought provoking lyrics. A good vocal performance or instrument solo is always an attention getter for me. I also like melodies that move me in some way. I like to hear songs that have clearly defined beginnings, middles, and endings. Depending on my mood, I prefer songs that make me want to get up and move a bit. A good rhythmic beat is my kind of shit. But if I'm just chill'n I prefer songs that make me reflect or feel something. I don't like lukewarm shit. I want to hear emotionally charged songs that inspire some primordial urges.
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12/27/2018 2:03:38 PM
How does this rate? Lyrics are a little weak but the rest?
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Duane Flock
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12/29/2018 8:47:41 AM
Production for me. I play several instruments as do a lot of us here. Kind of a "jack of all trades / master of none". What catches my ear is well thought out progressions and hooks (sometimes lyrics) that are blended and placed very well.
All of my own songs from day one were written to be individual pieces to cater to an array of genres. I tried to please everyone. Well that didn't work. The end result was a couple of albums that made no sense in category.
Now, I just do tracks for friends and musicians. Sometimes the parts just jump out at me, sometimes I beat my head against the wall trying to figure out what to play.
90% of the time it works out and I get to be a part of other peoples projects and their life works.
Maybe this year I'll write a few more tunes of my own.
Have a Happy New Year!
D.
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Bob Elliott
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1/2/2019 3:40:01 PM
---- Updated 1/2/2019 4:30:51 PM
I care about all of it, but what works me tons is production. Everything else flows and is what I want to do, write, play, sing...
But things need good production or no one can use it for their actual frequent listening. The recording has to be rich or it will be nothing
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