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Father Time
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3/15/2017 6:16:10 PM
If you heard a song as great as your favorite Beatles hit coming from an indie, what would you do?
I'm talking about an indie that is not you or a close friend. Would you tell a single other person? Would you actually take the time to send a link to your friends or put one on facebook?
Would you feel in any way that it's your duty to tell the world?
If not, why?
Is it hard for you to tell others about music you love?
Is it against your principles to spend time promoting someone other than your own thing?
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3/15/2017 7:34:59 PM
In Earnest,
Well yeah, IF I discovered the 'next BEATLES' among us,
well I'd tell the couple of people I know who might be interested...
AND I'd be relieved, 'cause then I could say 'Good, I don't have to do it.'
As it is, I'm of the mind that the buck stops here,
and that I do have to do it, and mind you, I don't think I've figured it
out quite yet....
I care that it gets done. Somebody's gotta rise. And be. The thing. You know?
I really don't care who it is, me, you, us, somebody else. Long as we get 'er done.
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Larree
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3/15/2017 9:53:50 PM
I don't think there is a 'one size fits all' answer to this. It depends on the music. It depends on the people. If I hear something I think someone I know might dig I share it.
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Raandy
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3/15/2017 10:43:22 PM
I don't know if anyone here would do that, I get your point FT. We've seen you do it, and we've seen Bryon do it, I've also seen Eve do it. If everybody was like those 3 we might get somewhere, but they're not.
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3/16/2017 11:33:36 AM
The answer to this, is both simple, and hard to actually do.
It's be, consistently great,
to where, people are just flocking to it....
and, guess what, it's probably more of a challenge here,
out there in radio land, if anything decent gets on, it can be a hit still...
"Exes And Ohs" by Elle King is a hit, that would have been a hit
back when I grew up, it's just a great song...
but here, in Indieland....
we're kind of up to our necks in great songs, all over the place,
so it's really gotta be super great....
and keep being that...
because it is a realm where most people here are making their own music.
And naturally they want to focus on that.
But if there came, somebody, person, group, singing dog trio,
that consistently, churned out hits that were so good,
it just made you stop in awe,
that, would get noticed.
I think so...
but as I said,
whereas a thing like the Elle King record had a shot
on the radio, 'cause most of the crap on the radio is just that,
crap on the radio, or 'the radio making hideous noises'
as Dylan somewhat prophetically pointed out, (not sure when he said that)
here, where we have, so many many good songs,
and a lot of great ones,
well it's the other side, of the ease at which we can release them,
and the community of artists that we are....
we're all quite good, a lot of us have our moments of greatness,
and imagine,
even that, in a realm of prodigiousness such as this,
may not be enough.
The answer is, if you are phenomenal enough, you'll get noticed,
because, what is phenomenal?
It's somehow figuring out,
how to give them what they want.
And of course, first, you kinda gotta figure out what they want,
and then, you have to be the best at producing that thing,
pulling it out of nowhere, dressing it up just so.
It's probably harder than it used to be.
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Father Time
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3/16/2017 12:17:14 PM
Well it's that giving them what they want that's too damned complicated in an era when the general public in my opinion doesn't care that much about music.
Our last 2 number one songs on Kayak to me are so overwhelmingly great that I can't believe everybody who hears them isn't out there linking to them to show the world how great indies are. But ultimately few give a fuck about these things.
Ainjel Emme, sheesh, her song is a sociological powerhouse and that's on top of its obvious musical power. She Rose From The Dead, their song is like a rock classic from 1968 for cryin' out loud, belongs on a playlist with Somebody To Love and Eight Miles High. I can't get that people aren't seeing the big picture like I see. If I did a song as good as either one and I'm pretty high on FT as you know, I would die knowing I reached the upper upper eschelon. Yet where is the indie clamor about why these songs aren't breaking out, going supa-viral? At best, most people here are thinking my song is as good as theirs, what's all the fuss about? No the fucking fact is indies will never get together on anything like this. There was once a supreme schmoozer in Indieland that everyone seemed to rally around, his music wasn't even that good but everybody loved the shit out of him. That's the closest I've ever seen. Basically the sociology of music fandom these days does not even allow for popular music greatness. Fame is manufactured by blandminded corporate suits.
Then again there are the MonaLisa Twins. Maybe they will lead us all to the promised land. But that will happen due to the listeners, there's at least as many artists jealous of them as who embrace them.
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Larree
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3/16/2017 12:18:08 PM
The biggest problem here is that we are using the Beatles as the measuring stick. Beatles music is "old people's" music to most people out there. Gotta freshen things up a bit!
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Father Time
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3/16/2017 12:22:53 PM
The Beatles kicked ass on iTunes.
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Larree
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3/16/2017 12:27:22 PM
Sure. All those old farts bought it up! Me? I would rather play Beatle songs than listen to Beatles these days. More fun to play than to listen.
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Father Time
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3/16/2017 12:40:50 PM
I think the generational gap you describe is exaggerated. I'm quite certain if you took a poll of the 18-29 crowd, the Beatles, Led Zep and Pink Floyd would all be in their top 10 artists.
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3/16/2017 12:44:27 PM
Interesting points, Gentlemen.
Scott, you seemed to almost answer your own question,
yes, a lot of staggeringly great songs...
I think the thing, or the 'trick' of it is,
if one can manage to make a song which speaks, to everybody else out there,
not just the Indie crowd, because, we're a crowd, we're a specific group
of people, and we're not the whole world,
we're a bunch of aspiring musicians, singers, and whatnot,
and the 'trick' if there is one, is throwing it over the wall,
so that people 'out there' get it, and feel like 'this song, feels like I feel'.
Larree you hit a nail on the head, couple times actually.
It is by now more fun to play Beatles than it is to listen to the old records,
and that goes for two actual Beatles, whom have been recognized
by someone who knew 'em, that I channel,
I can tell you both John and George would rather make a new go at it,
than hear the old one, as a rule.
As for The Beatles being old people music,
well, time moved on, and that's what it is now,
it wasn't that when they came,
they were young, all of us were young,
it was fresh, vibrant, and very alive.
and fun, it was a lot of fun,
fun needs to come back into the equation,
there's stuff out there selling a lot,
but we need more fun I think.
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Larree
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3/16/2017 1:15:43 PM
Music needs new genres and labels. There is nothing really interesting coming out of the current popular genres.
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Larree
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3/16/2017 1:31:38 PM
FT said, "I think the generational gap you describe is exaggerated. I'm quite certain if you took a poll of the 18-29 crowd, the Beatles, Led Zep and Pink Floyd would all be in their top 10 artists."
I think this is because kids grow up a lot slower these days and live with their mommies and daddies into their 30's and beyond.
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Father Time
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3/16/2017 1:43:29 PM
You're kind of demeaning the fabs there. Fact is if on an alternate universe, John and Paul were still writing songs together, those songs would be embraced by all, they would be the biggest act in the world end of story. heh
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Larree
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3/16/2017 2:03:11 PM
I'm not so sure about that. There is no guarantee that John and Paul could have recreated their early magic. And I'm not demeaning the Beatles. I love the Beatles. But they had their day. I'm not interested in reliving it. We need something fresh and new. Not another Beatles.
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Larree
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3/16/2017 2:14:41 PM
See, if you want it to be that you are just chasing the past. Not seeking the future.
I want that new genre, baby!
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Larree
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3/16/2017 2:19:26 PM
Look at how fucked up the music business is.
What do they do when they need something new? They add banjos and pedal steel guitars to shitty pop songs and call it "new" country! Get me the fuck out of here!
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Father Time
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3/16/2017 2:31:20 PM
The next big thing may be these twins who do songs heavily influenced by the Beatles.
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3/16/2017 2:31:41 PM
I'm with Larree on this, I'm kinda bored with the concept of The Beatles. OK, I accept they were amazing at the time and probably for 30, 40, 50 years after but how long do we have to keep deifying them? Why does every songwriter have to 'live up' to their standards rather than set new and different standards of their own?
While I'm here (and I'm not here too much lately) a strange thing happened in the UK charts this week when Ed Sheeran released a new album and consequently got 9 songs in the top 10... now it wasn't do to sales but to millions and millions of streams. I was reluctant to play the guy because I didn't want to jump on the band wagon but I did listen to the #1 and I have to admit it was a really good song in every way.
Seeya x
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Larree
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3/16/2017 2:46:33 PM
---- Updated 3/16/2017 2:48:23 PM
I do like the MonaLisa Twins. I am sure they would be great fun to see live. However, being "heavily influenced" by the Beatles does not put you in line to BE the next Beatles! I'm "heavily influenced" by Jerry Garcia and I am not playing lead guitar with Dead & CoMPANY! Although I will say that John Mayer seems to be handling the gig with gusto!
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Father Time
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3/16/2017 2:50:28 PM
I listened to several Sheehan songs when I saw his UK chart domination and while the melodies were ok, I found his style sort of douchey. Certain kinds of love songs rub me the wrong way and his did.
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Larree
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3/16/2017 2:52:10 PM
---- Updated 3/16/2017 3:48:54 PM
I'm with FT on Ed Sheeran. The kid needs to discover the bridge.
(ty for the correction, Jilli!)
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Francesca Tamellini
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3/16/2017 3:37:05 PM
Well I'm with Jilliane,
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Stoneman
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3/16/2017 3:39:26 PM
I like Ed. No, I wouldn't put him in any category with the Beatles but he's a descent songwriter and vocalist. It's like apples and Oranges. depends on what you like. I detect some underlayerings of soul in his work and I respect that. However, if I was to hear a group that remonded me of the greatness of the Beatles. I would put them on blast to all my friends and contacts. Although I staunchly revere the greatness of the Beatles, I am not foolish enough to believe that there will never be anyone with superior talent to them. There have been many with comparable talent for sure. But, yes, I know, back to the question. I would try to share that talent with everyone I know. I would encourage the group or artist to continue to develop and grow. Much in the way that I am currently mentoring several of my vocal students, I would make myself available to them for guidance, encouragement and the benefit of my experience in the industry. I am old enough to have seen a few things so I know a few things. Hehehehehe. I love that commercial. At any rate, regardless to the talent, a group must have the drive to go the long haul of success which is littered with many sinkholes to oblivion. I have seen this business destroy the best of the talent I have known. I mean absolutely destroy them! It is such a sad thing to see a thriving band destroyed by the riggers of life as a musician. So, along with encouragment, I would caution them about the pitfalls of touring and becoming popular. I would encourage them to make their musicianship their devout religion. To practice that religion every minute of the day. To become so engrossed in it that they start to dream song breaks, bridges and stage antics. Dream them up and make them realities. I would also make them take music business courses so they could fully understand how money flows in the industry. So many groups have been destroyed because of the money. If everyone understands how the money flows then they know what to expect in regards to royalties and such. A cohesive group that fully understands the business is a group that will last forever.
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Larree
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3/16/2017 3:45:49 PM
Right on, Stoneman! Well said! And that is perhaps the reason I am drawn towards jazz and classical more than any other styles of music. Jazz and classical musicians do make their musicianship their religion.
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3/16/2017 3:46:35 PM
---- Updated 3/16/2017 3:54:36 PM
The guy's name is Sheeran actually and although I'm not promoting him I can hear why he's played a lot. Not sure what douchy means but I think The Beatles put out some pretty drippy songs in their day and some of their early lyrics were decidedly simplistic - everything doesn't have to be Rock
And can we have a lot less promotion for the Mona Lisa Twins, it's starting to get annoying!
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Larree
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3/16/2017 3:55:55 PM
John McLaughlin, one of my favorite musicians, will tell you why the Beatles were important. Great piece. Well worth your five minutes and change. :)
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3/16/2017 3:57:40 PM
Very astute... lots of this...
much food for thought...
yes, it pretty much is a religion for me, music...
but I try to approach it as reverence over ritual....
like, if I just try to force myself, that doesn't usually work so good.
And we don't know... it may be possible,
that The Beatles were the pinnacle of musical human achievement,
but, if we do think that, isn't that like saying 'so why try any further,
they did it all, and it's been done'...
I think, the time period which begat The Beatles,
was a very artistically fertile time period,
I mean, what WASN'T good in those days?
Even songs that seemed 'so so' then, may sound great by now....
The elements of The Beatles are grand and products of Great Blessing,
each one with their talents, combining in a synergistic way, it's a marvel.
But how do we know, something could not come along,
that just plain betters them?
I know John doesn't want to think that a whole lot,
George may not either, but he's probably more realistic about it.
That's of course if you are one who accepts my premise
that I channel these guys, and I had a guy who knows 'em
over to my house, and he recognized this is really happening,
so having underscored that,
I can tell you, John himself now, doesn't really know how he did it.
He doesn't. I've said to him point black,
"you kinda suck now, it's like you don't give a crap"
and he's like
"Well, I don't. I did it. I know I wanted to keep doing it,
that's what I told you when you took up with me,
but you get bored you get tired, you don't have the same hunger..."
and then I tire of listening...
boohoo, sucks to be you, John.
Not.
Anyway, even though once upon a time, within my life,
John even dead, did have aspirations of a 'great comeback',
I'm by now thinking, that whatever the 'next big thing' is,
it will be that, because it is it's own thing, itself.
You get what I mean?
Like, I mean it COULD maybe be BEATLESEX
if these guys started finding the magic knack they had
of writing hits before... which included the times,
very fertile creatively, and that they were young and hungry
to make their mark...
anything is possible.
I do think it's a mistake to say 'they did it all, it won't be repeated',
if that were really true...
why are we all still here?
To make Beatles the new religion?
It's not about them. It never was.
It's about Us.
We loved them, because they felt, like Us.
Who are we now?
Do we even know?
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Father Time
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3/16/2017 3:59:44 PM
Jillianne, your perspective on the ML Twins must be considered in the context of the fact that you don't like to promote yourself AT ALL so it's no wonder it bothers you some.
That said we're going to be having a really huge record release party for them when their new album arrives which is probably within a month or two.
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Francesca Tamellini
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3/16/2017 4:07:20 PM
---- Updated 3/16/2017 4:08:18 PM
I didn't know Jillianne before today, but I sense an ally!
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Larree
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3/16/2017 4:22:49 PM
ALJ, you said:
"I think, the time period which begat The Beatles,
was a very artistically fertile time period,
I mean, what WASN'T good in those days?
Even songs that seemed 'so so' then, may sound great by now...."
So true. There was so much great music during that time.
I could put a top ten bands list together from that time period that does NOT include the Beatles.
Beach Boys
Simon & Garfunkle
The Doors
Cream
The Stones
Love (One of the greatest and most underrated bands ever!)
The Byrds
Jefferson Airplane
The Temptations
The Yardbirds
Dick Dale
Steppenwolf
Righteous Brothers
The Guess Who
The Who
The... wait. That's more than ten! :D
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Francesca Tamellini
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3/16/2017 4:36:46 PM
But anyone can make a list of bands that they like - or paintings, or cheeses or anything else.
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3/16/2017 4:40:37 PM
Well Fran,
Wensleydale is remarkably good, almost a dessert...
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Francesca Tamellini
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3/16/2017 4:50:00 PM
Very true, dashing blade, but I prefer Caravaggio.
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Father Time
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3/16/2017 4:58:05 PM
Francesca, your music relativism argument is one ya run into often. But you must know that all eras don't have identical quality of artists by some law of nature. As I'm sure I've said here before, if you go to an art museum, some eras take up whole wings of the museum while whole centuries merit no represenation whatsoever.
Personally I feel society is starting to grow beyond the whole age sorting thing. I have a lot of pretty young friends on facebook who gravitate towards the same music I love. One of my friends goes by the name Penny Lane Plant Lennon, she's probably as young as you. :)
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Francesca Tamellini
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3/16/2017 5:04:36 PM
But is it not natural that people with your taste will gather round you?
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Larree
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3/16/2017 5:06:31 PM
It's totally cool that kids dig the older music. I dug older music when I was a kid. I listened to jazz, classical, show music, movie soundtracks, folk music, along with the 'pop' music of the day. And that was before I was a teenager!
But digging the music is not quite like living in the times of the music.
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Larree
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3/16/2017 5:09:21 PM
The only real scene you can jump into today that is very similar to the way it was back in the sixties and seventies is the Dead scene.
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Francesca Tamellini
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3/16/2017 5:11:18 PM
---- Updated 3/16/2017 5:12:50 PM
I think you have a point Laree, but one big ironic shovel hits me on the head - the bands on the list are all 1000% mainstream, big music inc. bands. Where are all the weird little psychedelic outfits like the 13th floor elevators, or the non-conformists like the MC5? Why do Indy musicians have no nostalgia for the indies of their youth?
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Father Time
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3/16/2017 5:12:30 PM
Well sure FT, but it's still a fact that there's an ebb and flo of culture, there will be peaks and valleys of songwriting talent.
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Francesca Tamellini
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3/16/2017 5:15:07 PM
From the posts here it seems there was only one peak, in the late 60s.
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Father Time
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3/16/2017 5:16:53 PM
well the Who and Led Zep became mainstream because they were good. Nowadays the cream doesn't necessarily rise to the top. Part of what made things different was that then music listening was a social experience, now it's more a headphone experience.
I still love lots of less popular bands from that era, and less known indie acts from this era.
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Father Time
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3/16/2017 5:18:59 PM
well the era is generally considered to be 65-75 which is a pretty large span. But the early 80s had a good batch too.
and the Seattle sound from the 90s, if you're talking about just rock.
Soul music from the early 70s is one of the greatest eras.
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Francesca Tamellini
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3/16/2017 5:21:19 PM
Led Zeppelin were a music industry creation from the ashes of the Yardbirds.
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Larree
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3/16/2017 5:21:47 PM
Francesca, I wouldn't call Dick Dale or Love mainstream, but yes. I listed well-known bands from that era who had tons of hits and were NOT Beatles.
13th Floor Elevators and the MC5. You just earned some points! :)
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Francesca Tamellini
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3/16/2017 5:22:13 PM
My dad told me that. I have no idea what he is talking about.
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Francesca Tamellini
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3/16/2017 5:23:49 PM
---- Updated 3/16/2017 5:25:32 PM
I did know 13th floor elevators and MC5. It is the Yardbirds thing that I don't know about
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Father Time
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3/16/2017 5:41:03 PM
Well the Yardbirds thing kind of morphed into Led Zep more or less, but Zep is the mightiest rock act the world has ever seen. :)
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Larree
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3/16/2017 5:41:57 PM
Cool, Francesca. The Yardbirds were a great band. Clapton, Beck, and Paige all played guitar with The Yardbirds before their big breaks.
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Raandy
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3/16/2017 5:53:07 PM
I think some of you are deliberately deflecting off the topic here because you know you aren't about to ever do beans to elevate some indie other than yourself no matter how good they are.
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3/16/2017 6:12:26 PM
On topic... if you want us all to champion a real indie artist/band that's great, but let's pick someone who really needs help and deserves it.
The Monas don't need our support now, they're practically mainstream they had a huge fanbase before IMP, they have a website, a shop, a wiki entry and a full program of gigs... they also copy 60s bands and do covers.
I realise I'm coming across as unsympathetic but actually if it has to be a Beatles tribute act surely Lesley does as good a job.... and I suspect he could use the money more :)
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Father Time
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3/16/2017 6:29:43 PM
Well the purpose is not a charity thing where we help the neediest, what it's about is pushing an act to a higher eschelon hopefully opening the door for other indies, like for instance when Nirvana broke, all the other Seattle bands got discovered as well. The ML Twins are suited for this exactly because they're so close to the gold ring now.
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3/16/2017 6:39:14 PM
Well I can't understand the logic of that. Who outside of IMP knows the difference between an indie and a signed act just by listening, and if we explain it would they even care?
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Larree
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3/16/2017 7:56:48 PM
I have said this before, but it is worth saying again. Indie is just a nice way of saying unsigned like sanitation engineer is a nice way of saying trash man. We are all unsigned unless we are signed. We are not working musicians unless we are working as musicians. And that is the music industry truth.
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Father Time
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3/16/2017 8:54:03 PM
Well I run into music lovers every day who have no idea our realm even exists. A lot of them will only listen to names familiar to them. There is a threshold they need to be motivated to cross. Once they cross they may love the indies or unsigned artists whatever you want to call them, forever.
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Larree
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3/16/2017 9:06:13 PM
Well, the best thing to do is wear a band t-shirt. And if the name and logo are cool, people who see your shirt may search them out.
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3/16/2017 9:12:07 PM
Oh. I LOVE YOU ALL.
Bloody f---in' passionately.
Jilliane, gosh I may love you most of all... thank you for that.
So nice on a zillion levels. I truly adore you for that,
creepy love note concluded. Coda. Ta-DA.
Fran, you have one sharp dad you have.
Yardbirds, now they, see, everyone's different,
has their 'fave era' or 'eras'... (I have two eras, one on either side of me 'ead)
well I see early 60s, and latter half 60s, as damn near two universes.
Also, a lot of people who are into Zep may not agree,
but personally I WAY prefer the Yardbirds to Zep.
I may even cover one of theirs, "Heart Full Of Soul",
go to youtube, Fran, and find that, if you wanna see what
they did with it, I'll do the same thing,
only it's now, the future, so I have better equipment,
you'll hear all the bits better....
Scott, did you just use FT as an expression I'm not familiar with?
Talking about the lesser known acts...
Oh and Larree...
I categorically reject, the music business definition,
of 'working musician'.
Yeah, I get their definition.
I can however choose not to live by it.
See the epiphany for me is, realizing,
that I do NOT have a record company telling me
what to do, what to sing, what to record,
and when to do it. I'm my own boss. Probably forever,
which is Jake as Cake to me.
Now, if somehow, I figure out the 'code' and learn how
to make all these great songs that I suspect are mine to invent,
well maybe, maybe, I'll get ridiculously world bloody famous,
and even so, I would re-invent 'the deal'
(helps to have read, 'the art of the deal' as it gives me ideas,
there's ways and ways and other ways... not to go out of me
way to give the guy a plug, but credit where due,
this is not a thread about politics, I don't wanna make it one.
but the book, that you advised me to read, and thank you,
gave me ideas, lotsa ideas)
and if I did make a deal with a record company,
it won't be them calling the shots, it'll be me,
or no deal shall ever occur.
This is the upside of having learned how to do it all meself.
Who needs you assholes, I can say to the record company now.
All I'd need at this point, is a distribution deal,
and hell, if I have a product that is moving,
I can re-craft the deal, after each single, sure I can. And I will.
The thing I'd emphasize, to all of us,
is not any particular era is 'the best',
because that's subjective,
plus, if we all do it right, the 'best era ever' is like, now. Right now.
But the point is, everything is different...
and possibly the thing I'm trying to get at here is,
'you can only judge it but so far, in comparison, to what WAS.'
Okay? Lovely talking with you all.
Jilliane, I'm still palpitating.
I'll be fine by morning, Love.
Thanks again!
x
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3/16/2017 9:14:13 PM
PS,
also to Jill,
John's mate Pete Shotton did come to me house,
ten years ago, saw that it is really John,
so we are not then technically a 'Beatle tribute band',
We are, by John's definition, "a bloody sack of idiots, two thirds of which are dead."
Which, is not a bad 'bag' to be stuck in.
Everybody gets stuck in a 'bag', so make sure, that your bag,
has holes in it 'cause you can breathe.
'Cause if you're the one in the group who still breathes,
you'll need those bloody holes!
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Father Time
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3/16/2017 9:29:50 PM
FT is Francesca's initials, and mine. She's got a long name and I was too lazy to type it out.
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3/16/2017 9:32:13 PM
---- Updated 3/16/2017 9:35:53 PM
Yes, the T-Shirt idea is a very good one indeed....
and it's easy to do...
you go to Cafe Press....
set up your own shop easy as pie...
We still have a BEATLESEX shop there,
friend of mine asked about if there was a T-Shirt
with my name on it, I said 'well there's a BEATLESEX one',
and I gave him the link...
yeah, www.cafepress.com/beatlesex
The irony, is,
if one of We The Indies does 'crack the code'
suddenly discovering we've mastered
making the new songs that people feel speak to them and of them,
well there will be a rush for all sorts of Indie acts...
it will in effect, become cool to be Indie.
Just as it will become cool to be Old.
And there you have it. Don't spend it all in one place.
Or at least, rotate with the sun so you tan evenly.
Cheers....
PS,
Fran, you called me Dashing Blade again.
I love when you do that.
I love you all. Good Evening.
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3/16/2017 9:34:03 PM
OH BLOODY HELL!! You're Right. She's an FT too!
Me as well... sure I am. (Fat Thing)
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Bob Elliott
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3/16/2017 9:34:27 PM
If I think someone I know is really gonna like something I hear, indie or pro, I'll let them know.
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Larree
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3/16/2017 9:35:57 PM
You have the right to disagree, ALJ, but it is still the truth! You are either working or not working. But that is not a reflection of one's actual creativity.
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3/16/2017 9:37:31 PM
Right! Exactly! Anyone would...
it all comes down to, somebody cracks the code...
not easy to do... but somebody, maybe even someone among us now,
might, do it. And if anyone does do it, everyone would tell everyone,
"Hey, somebody's actually doing it!"
It could happen. We're about due for a New Era, I think.
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Father Time
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3/16/2017 9:44:55 PM
well I've never seen a name on a T-shirt that made me want to look up a band. What I'm talking about is raving about some INDIE song you like to all your facebook friends or whatever. I just don't see it happening. On my facebook I see listeners do it, I see Evie do it, occasionally I see Steve Ison do it. I do it all the time. Maybe it takes bravery or something ?
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Larree
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3/16/2017 9:57:40 PM
Well, I can't "rave" about something unless I feel it. I can rave day and night over Mary Halvorson. I can listen to her music for hours and hours. She is one of my favorite artists these days.
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Larree
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3/16/2017 10:29:46 PM
This is something everyone needs to hear. I was fortunate enough to experience a live performance of this piece of music in 1984. This music will rearrange your brain cells.
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Larree
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3/17/2017 3:37:06 AM
Well, the point is, no one is going to rave about something that doesn't move them. Unless they are employed by a label to rave!
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3/17/2017 11:27:29 AM
Actually, oddly enough, I have gained listeners just from a T-Shirt,
and also I had a BEATLESEX bag, I used to carry around,
it made people curious, 'what's a BEATLESEX?'
anyway,
since Fran mentioned this band, Yardbirds,
I'd said I'd do a cover of one of their songs "Heart Full of Soul"...
which now, I have done,
so Francesca, please let your dad who told you 'bout the Yardbirds, hear this.
Much Love, The Dashing Blade...
I'm Zorro.
heh.
"HEART FULL Of SOUL" by American Lesley Jane
Yeah, just recorded this last night. Sounds Swell. Well I like the darn thing.
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Father Time
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3/17/2017 11:31:58 AM
Larree if you think about things that way, you need to develop an indie heart. :) There's plenty of music here to rave about.
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3/17/2017 11:32:14 AM
---- Updated 3/17/2017 11:38:51 AM
No, Larree, you are incorrect.
Dude, I work.
The label, is what's wrong.
Working Musician, Working Artist,
these records do not make themselves, that, takes, work.
Money-Making Musician, THAT is the list I ain't on, Pal.
Let's not have this argument any further, whatta ya say?
I work. Believe you me, Kid, I fuckin' work my ass off in that studio.
I Rock, and that don't happen without some serious Work.
It's Money-Making Musician, that I am not yet,
but oh, I may yet get there.
And as for Indies lifting a finger to tell anybody about anybody,
again, I say, that, comes down to,
show us anybody that damned good, and we're gonna talk about it. All to it.
And I am, a Working... A Hard-Working Musician, and Artist, and Singer.
It's work. don't be telling me it isn't, Larree.
I don't make MONEY,
that's what I don't do yet.
WORK IS WORK,
Slaves, Built The White House,
that was Work.
Think they got paid?
They didn't.
It's still Work.
Get my meanin' now, there Bro?
I Work My Ass Off.
I just don't make me no money, yet.
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3/17/2017 11:33:41 AM
No hang on a minute...
I'll back a man when he's right...
Larree is correct about this,
ain't nobody gonna rave about nothin' that don't move 'em.
That won't happen. Not unless they're paid to, like he said.
Have anything come along that's so good, that it DOES move folks, then...
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Father Time
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3/17/2017 11:39:49 AM
I didn't say rave about something that doesn't move you. I said there's plenty here to rave about and don't be shy about it.
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3/17/2017 11:42:48 AM
Okay, what can be argued,
is that probably we Indies, may not listen to each other's stuff,
as much as we arguably should, like, just to be up
on what other artists are doin'....
I'll nod a yea to that one, sure.
It is so.
And yeah, there IS plenty here to rave about,
and more people would know that,
if they listened more... true, all that.
They still gotta be moved, before they're gonna rave about it though.
That's easy math that is.
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Larree
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3/17/2017 11:49:40 AM
---- Updated 3/17/2017 11:51:51 AM
Sorry, ALJ. If you're not working (for pay) you are just practicing. I grew up in Hollywood, man. A lot of people are just practicing. And a lot of them are really good!
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Larree
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3/17/2017 11:51:00 AM
---- Updated 3/17/2017 11:52:13 AM
FT, I have always had an indie heart. Damn, I followed the first real indie band, The Grateful Dead, for years!
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3/17/2017 12:10:11 PM
You should not have said that to me.
Work is Work.
Pissed Off is Pissed Off. Later.
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3/17/2017 12:10:47 PM
PS...
Fuck Hollywood, Man.
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Larree
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3/17/2017 12:18:56 PM
Why the fuck are you pissed off? Just keepin' it real. Sheesh. I work hard, too. I have written hundreds of songs and now I am writing novels. But if I am not published or getting paid I am NOT working. So fuck me for being real! LOLOL!
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Larree
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3/17/2017 12:21:11 PM
Come to Second Life and become a real working musician!
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Father Time
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3/17/2017 12:28:27 PM
Most musicians getting paid are playing cover songs, often copying the record as close as they can. There's a whole realm of recording that your statement kind of insults, Larree. When I record my songs, I'm not just practicing.
and Lesley you should know by now to take Larree's statements with a grain of something. After all he thinks Hillary is evil and Trump isn't corrupt. heh
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Larree
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3/17/2017 12:38:57 PM
---- Updated 3/17/2017 12:43:50 PM
I think it is totally retarded to be insulted or offended by my statement!
Don't you WANT to get paid someday? I sure as fuck do! :D
I mean, if it was ALL I cared about I would have quit this shit 30 years ago! But it would be fucking nice. Sheesh, lol
And why did you have to bring politics into this shit? Fuck politics! (I am so glad Hitlery lost.) :D
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3/17/2017 12:45:41 PM
Offended? Nah, my skin's thicker than that.
Offended, would mean I think your opinion has merit.
Turns out, Larree, it does not. Not to me.
Obviously, we are not in agreement on this, and doesn't look like
we're about to be.
Scott also has just said, when he works on his music, He Works On It.
Work. It's real. If someone is a slave, and is made to do something,
would you, then say, they did not Work?
No, and you'd be Wrong, if you did.
Work, work you do and then is work you've done, is freakin' Work.
I ain't offended. I just think you're an a-hole.
But then, I shouldn't be surprised, 'cause I kind of already knew that.
You wanna say that YOU don't work,
you who made a record called "Never Gonna Work",
well okay that's your call to make.
You tell me, that I don't work? At that point, I stop having much to say to you.
I work. And you're an a-hole.
Not offended, enlightened. I know who I'm dealing with.
And I even came back 'round and stuck up for Your ass,
ain't that some shit.
Won't be doin' that again any time soon.
Yeah I did, go read it, Scott had you wrong about some damned thing,
I can't even remember wrong, and I stuck up for you,
and now, you made me sorry I did.
But, no biggie.
I Will Rise.
I Will Chose Whom I Take With Me.
That's a Natural Fact.
Go on with your bad self, Hollywood. Go on.
You just disrespected the Wrong Damned Hard Working Musician, you did.
And it ain't no thang, Larree.
I adjust, very quickly. Ain't no thing at all.
You can say you don't work, you try and say I don't?
I now discount your opinion entirely. That's how that works.
Have a nice day.
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Larree
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3/17/2017 12:46:40 PM
The amateur athlete trying to make the Olympics team works real hard, too. But they know that they are not really "working". Get real!
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Larree
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3/17/2017 12:51:57 PM
When I am writing I am writing. I never really call that work. If you think you are working when you are writing you have it all wrong.
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3/17/2017 12:53:55 PM
No, it is you who has it all wrong. And we'll just disagree to disagree.
You Get Real.
I Am Real.
Nothing more to say to you. Period. We're done, Larree.
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Father Time
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3/17/2017 1:01:52 PM
It's a fact that artists who mainly only record don't get enough respect in general. If you think about it the fab four did their greatest work Revolver (and Abbey Road) after they stopped touring. The Beach Boys weren't on the road when Pet Sounds was being made either.
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Larree
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3/17/2017 1:09:24 PM
All those guys played their asses off live for YEARS before they got that luxury. Add Steely Dan to that list. But I saw Steely Dan three times before they quit touring, and they were one of the best bands I ever saw.
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3/17/2017 1:12:06 PM
Well no doubt, Father Time,
what he may come back with to that,
might be, not that I'm hear to be his mouthpiece 'cause I ain't,
but he may counter, that those recordings, were sold,
hence, in the Hollywood Larree universe, it was 'work'.
I say if you put your heart, your sweat, your effort and toil into it,
then it is work, money made or not.
We Indies, Are Working Our Asses Off.
And Many Of Us do not yet make any money.
But we work, and this guy comes along, sayin' we don't.
Nah, I don't let that sit there like it paid for its ticket,
that is wrong, out of line, disrespectful to everyone here
who does work and yet does not yet make money....
and he's okay with saying that.
And I'm not.
So, I said what I had to say to the guy.
And now, I'm done speaking to him, possibly, ever.
He just got on the 'outs' with the Wrong Working Musician. Is what he did.
You're cool, Scott.
And I'm just saying as a friend,
don't beat your head against the wall with this guy,
kinda like you just told me? You're right. Not worth it.
I tried, Larree. You just wanna be Larree, and doesn't matter if you're wrong.
When I'm wrong, I say so. I was mean to you once,
and 'cause of what? Politics? Stupid reason, and I have now
apologized several times....
This? Nah. This is different.
Oh I Work my ass off. You said you the wrong damned thing to me, Son.
And, I'm not sure you're ever gonna see that, and I've made my peace with it.
It is what it is, you are as you are, and I'm old enough to know,
when to walk away from somebody.
You totally insulted me, but I'm over it.
I just will know better from now on.
My biggest disappointment, was thinking you a friend.
My friends, know better. They see how I work. I fuckin' work.
One day, it may pay off,
if a guy sits in Vegas at a slot machine
and plays the slots all damned day
seven days a week, for three hundred years,
it's Work. It's work that is an Investment in a Maybe, but it is Work.
You get it yet? Or no. No, right? I'm done trying to talk sense to you;
I'm just done talkin' to you Larree. F this noise.
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Father Time
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3/17/2017 1:20:14 PM
Larree's a bro to me. He handled that famous dog pic with great humor so he can opine all he wants about what's work and what isn't. We know he hates work anyway so he's the last person who has any expertise on the subject! :D
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Larree
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3/17/2017 1:41:32 PM
Right on, FT! Bros for life!
ALJ, I "work" just as hard at my art as you do on yours so shut the fuck up and stop being an ass. If I was some guy who never touched a guitar working in a bank or at a shoe store and I expressed that opinion you might have the right to go all fucktard on me. But not today. I have total respect for working musicians, and total respect for artists "working" on their craft. So stop being an idiot. At least I know the difference between working and work. Now apologize, dumbass.
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3/17/2017 1:56:46 PM
Oh you think I'm going to apologize to you Larree?
For what? Being right? Oh for your being wrong.
Well don't you think it should be you who apologizes for that?
Hey, I think you're an a-hole. What, I'm supposed to apologize
for having reached that conclusion? Sorry you led me to it, Pal.
Have a good one. If you can.
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3/17/2017 2:00:05 PM
Scott, you and him can be Bros all you want,
and I hope this does not become an impediment between you and I.
That said, nah, I ain't sorry about anything I just said to the guy,
not this time.
It stands.
And I've nothing more to say to him. Really I don't.
Far as I'm concerned, you and I are Bros, Scott.
And maybe that makes for weird math,
if I'm your Bro and you're my Bro,
and then you're his Bro,
but I'm saying he's not my 'Bro'.
Short People are just the same as you and I.
All men are brothers until the day they die.
That having been said,
that "Bro" is, wrong.
And I have nothing further to say to him.
We're done there. I'm done with him.
He'll now make disrespecting me his penchant or something, maybe.
Whatever. I cannot concern myself with the choices of an idiot.
And yeah, that's a judgement call, I think he is one.
I like you though.
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Larree
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3/17/2017 2:01:53 PM
---- Updated 3/17/2017 2:02:20 PM
I will tell you why you should apologize to me, dumbass. I went back to my first comment about being a working musician and I did not single you out in that post. As a matter of fact, dumbass, I said, "WE are all working musicians or we are not working!" So shut up and stop taking every general comment I make out here as a personal attack. God, you are so fucking full of yourself.
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3/17/2017 2:04:19 PM
see, that is, a personal attack.
And yeah I'm full of myself, who'm I gonna be full of? You? No, I think not.
How 'bout, stop talking to me. How bout that?
I think that, is a GREAT idea.
I am a Very Hard Working Musician. You, are, wrong.
And you will wait a long long time, like, till the 12 of Never,
before I apologize to you for this.
And, by the time you get around to apologizing to me, I'll be past caring, I'm sure.
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3/17/2017 2:07:46 PM
Look, you're a moron, or an idiot, or both,
so I'll explain this,
(that was the gotcha back part, here's the education)
you may think you didn't single me out,
but you did, by insulting me,
you don't see that, but you did.
Because, Larree, I know I work. I know I work my ass off,
and have been doing so for a long long long long long time.
You completely discount and ignore that, therefore
you disrespected me, personally,
whether or not you were aware you did, is immaterial,
since, once I made it known,
you doubled down on it.
Fine. I know how to do that.
I'll double down, triple down, it is work that I do,
it is in fact the ONLY work I can do,
so yeah, I hope one day it all pays off..
and you personally insulted me.
And what the hell do you suppose I have to say to you now, Hollywood?
Turns out, not so much anymore.
Go on, bad mouth me all you want.
Even when I stick up for you, you continue to insult me.
Don't worry, that won't happen again.
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Larree
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3/17/2017 2:09:47 PM
Problem is, even when I am not talking to "you", you think I am talking to you. You are the dumbass who made this a huge stupid personal thing! Jesus fucking christ, man! lolol
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Father Time
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3/17/2017 2:12:51 PM
I don't care if you 2 hate each other, it's probably better for the fans. heh
Wanted to add, not sure if this is the right thread, I saw Steely Dan live and they were pretty great. My date I took didn't even like them but afterwards she did.
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3/17/2017 2:13:11 PM
If I did not make a public stand about disagreeing with your statement,
that'd be the same as passively agreeing with it. And I do not.
So, I said how your statement as it could apply to me, is incorrect.
I do work. And you wanna tell me I don't.
MONEY doesn't make it work, Larree.
MONEY Makes That Work PAY.
What I Do, is called AN Investment.
That, ask Any Entrepreneur, is work,
it's work you hope will pay off, but it is still work.
I am just not going on with this conversation.
One of us, learns as we go.
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3/17/2017 2:16:11 PM
And Father Time,
my apologies to you Sir, this is your thread,
and it should not be hijacked by this nonsense.
Anyway, I responded, 'cause what he said,
certainly in how I see it applying to me, is just plain wrong.
Incorrect. In error.
And that said, I am not saying anything further on this thread,
and good luck seeing if you can get him to make that same promise.
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Father Time
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3/17/2017 2:19:06 PM
He's probably already forgotten about it, and you probably will by tomorrow.
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Larree
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3/17/2017 2:20:26 PM
I am fine with your disagreement, but you made it fucking personal. Baby.
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3/17/2017 2:22:44 PM
Wrong again, Larree.
You made it personal.
You could have said,
that you do not feel like you 'work'...
that's just you talking subjectively.
You presented it though as an absolute, Baby.
Like it stands for all times, 'cause you said so. No Deal Howie.
I won't sign for this package.
Let's just not talk to each other anymore, Larree.
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Larree
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3/17/2017 2:28:52 PM
---- Updated 3/17/2017 2:34:47 PM
You present your own view as absolute, lol. Get real! HAHAHAHAHA
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3/17/2017 2:32:50 PM
Jeez. Wrong again.
And hahaha to your heart's content, it's your right as an American.
I presented my view, as it applies to me.
I also said, you are free to say that what you do is not work.
I did say that. Again you are in error.
And I remember now, why I gave you the nickname, "Last Word Larree"
so go to it. Have fun.
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Larree
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3/17/2017 2:35:54 PM
You do present your view as absolute. If you did not do that, you would not turn a statement that had nothing to do with you personally at all into a personal attack!
Don't worry, ALJ. I still like you and think you are an okay musician. And I still think you can stand for your music without having to use the Beatles as a crutch. Keep on... working!
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3/17/2017 2:54:39 PM
Okay, first, let's both take a deep breath.
Next,
please see my new thread,
regarding our 'discussion' or whatever this is,
Because I think we should not continue it here, Larree.
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Larree
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3/17/2017 3:00:20 PM
Okay, "last word" ALJ!
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3/17/2017 3:03:54 PM
That's funny. And now you'll post again.
You're welcome to continue this argument with me in the proper place for it.
Which is not here. Just sayin',
you'll come back here, do your Last Word Larree thing, and that's it for here.
If you wanna actually argue the point or continue to, I'm easy to find. Very visible.
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JeffH
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3/17/2017 8:09:58 PM
If you heard a song as great as your favorite Beatles hit coming from an indie, what would you do?
Check out the artist to see if there is more...
Would you tell a single other person?
Sure but I'm not into all of the social linkage in today's modern world...
Would you actually take the time to send a link to your friends or put one on facebook?
I don't facebook... but other sites I visit (mostly musician hang outs) I would post a link. Don't know what good it would do... but sure.
Would you feel in any way that it's your duty to tell the world?
Duty? No...
But I've yet to have my socks knock off to the caliber of which you speak.
So I suppose that could change.
Is it hard for you to tell others about music you love?
Nope not at all... usually comes up in conversation if I found something new that I dig. I like to share it.
Is it against your principles to spend time promoting someone other than your own thing?
I barely promote my own thing so it's not about principle... just how I'm wired.
Here you go... check out
Esme Patterson
Shaky Graves
Gabby Moreno
Lake Street Dive
The Civil Wars
St Vincent
Aoife O'Donovan
Kaleo
I guess they don't count on account they're all signed artists working making money and chit... certainly not up to par with my fav Beatles tune... which I couldn't name if I tried. It changes like the seasons... although Hey Bulldog must always be played at 10 (volume-wise) it always remains near the top.
But I've promoted these artists on other sites because I dig em and think others will as well.
side note;
My favorite all time Indie Band is (we use to call them college radio bands)
The Replacements
Now that was an indie band... one of America's best!
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Bob Elliott
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3/18/2017 3:34:24 PM
There is a tendency for the unsigned to underestimate the talents of the signed.
But I guess that is expected.
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Larree
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3/18/2017 5:55:25 PM
Bob Elliott! Yes indeed! :D
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3/19/2017 1:00:06 PM
There is also a tendency for the signed, to think themselves superior
to the unsigned. But that would be a matter of 'taste'.
The other side of that, the underside of being 'signed' is you are basically,
as an artist and a musician and singer and whatever else you do and play,
in effect 'owned' by the record company, you can't just create,
they have to be on board with it, you have to then, get their permission.
And that, just does not 'work' for me. Call me crazy, many do.
I like being unsigned. And to me, maybe not to everybody,
but to me, 'money' is not the measure of 'work'. Personal satisfaction, is.
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