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Hop On Pop
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10/29/2007 3:38:42 PM
Let's hook up on MySpace, too!
Yeah, I know.
But good exposure is good exposure.
Send friend invites to all!!!
Here's my page:
www.myspace.com/hoponpopmusic
Networking: It's the way we Indies get exposure.
There is a lot of talent here and we need to get each other heard.
Scott: I saw the IAC page. Is there an IAC Group there?
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Troy Beadles
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10/29/2007 4:15:03 PM
http://www.myspace.com/ridetheriverradio
http://www.myspace.com/tdbeadlesandcompany
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Two Silo Complex
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10/29/2007 4:23:20 PM
You space, I space, we're all lost on myspace!
Here is my page.
http://myspace.com/twosilocomplex
Cheers:
TSC
Ken
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The CODE
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10/29/2007 4:37:18 PM
Ours is...
www.myspace.com/feverpitchuk
(Don't ask me why???}
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fly on the wall
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10/29/2007 4:41:01 PM
If you want to raise your friend count, just google Bullet Train, you can have hundreds of new fake friends overnight and improve your self esteem.
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Troy Beadles
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10/29/2007 4:53:29 PM
Let me guess, you're a social outcast in prison?
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fly on the wall
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10/29/2007 5:05:58 PM
No prison can hold a fly. We flies have our own version of My Space though, here it is.
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Vincenzo Pandolfi
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10/29/2007 5:28:38 PM
Why not, we all need a little ego boosting!! Can someone send me a wig. If I have more people looking at my picture, I need a wig!!
http://www.myspace.com/vincenzopandolfi
Ciao.
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Texas Willie
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10/29/2007 5:51:21 PM
Well here is mine!
http://www.myspace.com/ttexaswillie
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Texas Willie
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10/29/2007 5:56:20 PM
Alrighty then.....I have already sent Add request to everyone above this post....
Except myself......I am already a Friend of mine!
Texas Willie
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Jo Ellen
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10/29/2007 6:39:57 PM
Forget about how many friends I have on my list... what about supporting and helping to promote each other... and what of just general interest in experiencing new people and music. I actually am very picky about who I add to my friends list, but I have no problem letting others know where I am located on the web http://www.myspace.com/joellenmusic
See u there!
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Gary Stockton
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10/29/2007 7:08:14 PM
I have a page on myspace
www.myspace.com/garystockton
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Troy Beadles
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10/29/2007 7:09:32 PM
Thanks everyone! :)
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Vincenzo Pandolfi
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10/29/2007 9:11:22 PM
Thanks for the wig Texas, but did you have to send me one with a hole in it??
Oh, sorry it's my own hair....
Vincenzo
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Jo Ellen
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10/30/2007 12:34:15 AM
I have to clarify my above statement. What I meant to convey is that I am picky about who I add to my friends list on my personal myspace site, but my music site is open to everyone.
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Hop On Pop
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10/30/2007 8:06:03 AM
S'all cool JoEllen.
And fly... I just like to get heard wherever I can. Ego boost? Maybe.
But if you don't want to be heard, why are you even on the internet?
And thanks for all the MySpace links, folks. Invites coming.
Start an IAC GROUP over there and we can make an even bigger noise.
Anyone know how?
(I'm a bit of an ignoramus and have limited means when it comes to MySpace.)
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Texas Willie
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10/30/2007 9:01:22 AM
Well.......I can do that!
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Texas Willie
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10/30/2007 9:13:00 AM
Here you go Folks!
Here is the URL:
http://groups.myspace.com/iaconmyspace
This Group is dedicated to Independent Artists Company musicians. A place where they can gather, exchange ideas, music and the kinship they have with one another....
But it is also an "Open Membership...For Anyone Who Enjoys Great Music"
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Tony Vani and Debbie Hoskin
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10/30/2007 9:28:33 AM
Ashley built us a myspace page and periodically checks it. I rarely go on there. Looks like I made a couple of friends. LOL
http://www.myspace.com/tonyvanianddebbiehoskin
:-) See you there! deb
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10/30/2007 10:03:11 AM
That place just doesn't excite me at all, can't really explain why. As Music Mistress I have 32 friends but 29 of those are from IAC (don't think I got Hoppy yet) - I only speak to 4 or 5, I only listen to 2 or 3. I don't blog, I hate those bulletins now. I used to like filling in my 'moods' and reading other peoples but the novelty soon wore off. It's just a place to export my IAC player to now.
If you've planted you musical tree at myspace and it's growing branches then great, keep watering but that place is just full of dormant seeds and dead plants for me. Maybe if I had nowhere else to go.? Haha! who would want me now?
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Bat Lenny
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10/30/2007 10:30:13 AM
We have one too but we never pay much attention to it. I guess you get out what you put in but it's a rather wilted branch. Every once in a while I get a friend request but if it's not an IAC member it's usually some random person that seems to have no real reason to be my friend or vice versa.
But it's www.myspace.com/batlenny if anyone's interested.
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Jo Ellen
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10/30/2007 10:52:31 AM
Hop,,
I think my point being... I DO want my music to be heard on the internet. My other point was in response to comments that adding friends on myspace is about ego boosting. I disagree for myself. My personal myspace page is full of friends I have known for years or have known "for real". In the same way as I get "to know" people I might add them too. My personal myspace sight can only be viewed if the viewer is on my friends list. I use my personal page to stay in contact with friends all over the country (and some outside). My music myspace sight, however, is open to the public and I welcome any person, musician, group, or band to be added to my friends list because I handle it as a public page. I hope this clears things up.
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10/30/2007 1:04:27 PM
For what it's worth IAC has kept a My Space page at myspace.com/iacmusic that has close to 2500 friends. We don't really publicize it for several reasons.
1) People write us there and expect answers and we just don't check it that often.
2) Several members of IAC administration have mixed feelings about My Space, for among other reasons..
A. The friend gimmick is on one realm exploitation of people, especially teens, and all to generate ad dollars for Fox Media Corp which is a company that stands for some things that are sort of the opposite side of the coin to Indie.
B. They built up much of their following and hype by creating fake unsanctioned pages for name artists.
C. We've seen numerous intelligent individuals get literally addicted to building their friend lists and even though so often the same people say they don't take it seriously, they continue to pursue it like a nonstop mission. I'm neutral on this myself but some of the people closest to me feel strongly that the site dummies down the entire online culture because the wampum being pushed (more "friends") is far less useful than advertised in most cases. I know as a fact that the recent chat show was publicized on probably 4 to 5000 user's bulletin boards because I helped send them but from what I heard from Scott, virtually all the people in the room were community artists.
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10/30/2007 1:05:43 PM
Unfortunately I believe there are even people reading this thread who will only take one thing from what I just said, that iac has a my space page so they can add another friend to their list.
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Hop On Pop
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10/30/2007 1:28:36 PM
I've actually found a couple of old high school/musician friends through MySpace recently.
Both are very talented and have pretty good connections. Once I have my home computer up and running I do believe that I'll be able to take better advantage of MySpace. But yeah, for now, I'm afraid it IS just about building my friends list.
Once I get rolling, though (or you), it can be a good tool for promotion -- both personally, and for IAC.
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10/30/2007 1:32:23 PM
I'm not saying that they aren't responsible for some positives. Just that there is a fairly reasonable other side of the political fence, too.
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KENYON
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10/30/2007 1:50:32 PM
Right on Toby.
Just for my own opinion. Myspace isn't much of an Indie outlet. Most of the people head off to listen to the corporate crap but when you have nothing else for a site, its ok.
Also you might find more friends then you want, residing on your PC's after a time and they all found their way through MySpace.
But its whatever you want to do, I prefer spending most of my time here at IAC.
Peace
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Hop On Pop
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10/30/2007 1:58:43 PM
"I prefer spending most of my time here at IAC.
Peace"
Completely agree.
And I've sent many folks over here -- both listeners and artists.
But it's like anything else; just another option, another tool.
(Kinda like me: just another tool.)
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Jo Ellen
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10/30/2007 2:03:10 PM
I must say that I have been thus far disappointed with the ability of myspace music pages to provide the type of interaction among artists that is found at IAC. For this reason I can definitely see the limitations of myspace as a commercial medium. There is no real Indie heart there. Mostly just young people looking for the same music they listen to on the radio to put on their site or to say "I'm friends with this big name or another".
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DirgeK
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10/30/2007 3:54:53 PM
I put DirgeK's music on MySpace at a time when I had never heard of KIAC. It has allowed her music to be heard by many musicians from all over the world and I have had many kind words and messages of encouragement from busy people who took time to listen and who otherwise would never have heard the music. As well as the music site she has a personal site also, and I have found friends who are very artistic and send me amazingly beautiful graphics and inspiring messages which always brighten up my day. I also found many people who have similar interests and feel passionate about the same issues as myself. I find the bulletins a useful way of informing a large number of people when you upload a new song etc.
Debbie I hope you visit your site and like the pic I sent you.
http://www.myspace/dirgekrip
DK's mum
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Tony Vani and Debbie Hoskin
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10/30/2007 4:04:23 PM
DK's Mum! Yes, I just got those beautiful flowers today! Thank you so much. I sent you a comment back. (don't know how to send flowers or I would have sent you some) It's so cool to see "real friends" on myspace. LOL deb
I also got a note from Texas Willi.........lol........Hey Tex! Guess you are officially my friend now! :-) Wow.........real people on myspace, what a concept!
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Vincenzo Pandolfi
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10/30/2007 4:19:31 PM
I think DirgeK has a very good mum!!
As far as mySpace is concerned, it is like anything else in life, you only get back what you put in it, but you certainly won't find the closeness that is felt at IAC. You very quickly feel part of the IAC community, probably because we all share common passsions and understand what we all go through for the love of music.
If you just add friends for the sake of increasing your friends number, it is just an illusion and it is fake. I generally tend to add only people that I have come in contact with somewhere and with whom I communicate from time to time. I am concerned though with the general degrading of the word Friend. Friendship is earned over time where a bond of trust and respect is nurtured and matured. It is a pity that 'Friend' can be used so loosely at mySpace.
Vincenzo
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Gary Stockton
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10/30/2007 5:43:46 PM
True story.. this weekend I was going through an old box of cassettes looking for tapes my band made over 20 years ago. Among the cassettes was a tape from a fellow my brother had played with. It was a really good tape and I listen to it every so often. Anyhow, I was curious and typed his name into MySpace and boom, there he was, just up the road from me. Sent him an email offering to make MP3 of the music in case he didn't have the tunes still, and now he is on my list of friends. A real nice guy.
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DirgeK
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10/30/2007 6:21:22 PM
Debbie, there are lots of sites which host images to post on MySpace such as this one
http://www.sparkletags.com/browse.php?folder=Flowers
Find the image you like then copy the html code it gives. Then just paste this code in the Add Comment box at the bottom of MySpace pages.
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Tony Vani and Debbie Hoskin
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10/30/2007 6:34:14 PM
Cool! Thank you for that tip! I just sent you some beautiful roses with a butterfly. deb :-)
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RedRobin
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1/9/2008 7:52:38 AM
I just came across this blog about MySpace, so....
First and foremost I don't see it as a rival or competitor with IAC and I don't think that one is 'better' overall than the other. I use both - One sometimes more than the other, it varies. I sing the praises of MySpace when I'm here and I sing the praises of IAC when I'm there, if either seems appropriate.
The whole 'Friends' term shouldn't be taken too literally. In my case, a good percentage of 'Friends' actually are people I know for real. You can easily filter out and be particular about who is a 'Friend' or not. About three-quarters of my Friends there are musicians and there are also dancers, painters, writers, etc, and just those who simply love music or like my music. Depending on who you select as Friends, the experience is nothing like as shallow as its reputation. I only have experience of the music side of it.
For anyone who wants to get their music out there and on offer, MySpace is an essential medium IN ADDITION TO other media. Whether we like its owners or not (and I absolutely detest 'Tom' for his total lack of tech support and attitude!!), MySpace is very established and just by having a presence there you are part of a music scene. You meet someone who hasn't heard your music and is interested: "Are you on the net?"...."Certainly"...."Then check out my music on IAC"...."Who!??"...."Independant Artists Company"....(blank stare)...."How about MySpace?"...."Ah yes, no problem, easy to find, your music must be doing okay". Sorry but I'm just being blunt with the reality and I expect that my words may annoy some of you here.
Some IACers have an axe to grind against anything non indie and that's fair enough. Personally I don't care two sh!ts where the music I love originates. Each to their own.
As a musician who isn't already very established you can't really afford not to be on MySpace but that doesn't mean that your heart and preference can't be here at IAC.
IAC has far better blogs and the Stations are awesome. The charts are interesting. The people are genuine and passionate. I love both! (in spite of one or two or three people here clearly not liking what I have to say one little bit!)
Music Is Life!
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Andy Broad
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1/9/2008 10:09:00 AM
My myspace is building steadily mostly left to it's own devices.
My freinds policy is roughly:
anyone who asks me get semi automaticaly added, I usually check them out first (too many spammers) or I might actaully like their music...
I ask:
- people I meet at gigs,
- musicians I know or have supported,
- venues I have played or would like to play
- and a few of "famous" people I would like to be associated with / respect musicaly
many of my real friends are there as well ofcourse.
I don't think there is much point in trawling round myspace adding freinds at random, freinds who are generally interested are of much more value.
So far the majority of unsolicited freinds are other musicians, the ultimate ideal would be for more "fans" who want to know what I up to
The two aren't mutually exclusive, ofcourse.
Might as well tell you what the link is :-)
myspace.com/andybroad
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Magnetfisch
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1/9/2008 2:46:39 PM
and here is ours:
www.myspace.com/magnetfisch
let's join the IAC group 8-)
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Ben Elliot
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1/9/2008 3:19:11 PM
Any IAC member is a friend of mine. Excellent post!
www.myspace.com/benelliot
simple as.....
Ben
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RedRobin
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1/9/2008 3:40:15 PM
As people are posting their MySpace links here....Mine is: www.myspace.com/redrobinmusic
I'm not sure about the logic of having an IAC Group over there....Don't we IACers find it easier to share our communications more broadly about IAC here?
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Ben Elliot
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1/9/2008 4:11:56 PM
Having read through this thread, Id feel it appropraite to post a blog I did recently about myspace. Admittedly it doesn't really touch on the multitude of disadvantages, but is aimed at younger people, new to the music promotion thing. Im sure it will provoke some sort of reaction... so feel free. Its one of many about the different music promotion sites out there so look out for the IAC one.
My Space
Everyone has one, whether they like it or not. The first question you will be asked upon gaining anyone's attention is 'What's your myspace address?'. Music Industry types want to see how many plays you have, what you consider to be your top 4 songs are, how many friends you have and how often you update your page. All this means nothing in the real world but its an easy gauge for a record label to see how popular and serious you are and everyone knows how to use it.
I was always told at school that if you have any spelling mistakes in your CV then the employer will immediately throw your application in the bin. Think of myspace as spelling and grammar in a CV, if you don't personalise you page, add pictures and a decent biography, then you'll end up in the bin before they've even listened to your music.
Although the days of 'making it on myspace' have all but gone it still has its place. It has a everything you need but not a lot more. Once you have added your songs and written a bit about yourself, it all becomes about networking. There is a danger to do too much with your page. I have visited bands pages and got completely lost in banners, videos, Flash players and oversized images. By the time the page has loaded and attempted to simultaneously play 5 songs at me, I have lost interest.
In conclusion, use your best songs and best text but keep it simple. Make sure it looks professional, which means asking your friends to save their 'what you doing on saturday night?' comments for Facebook.
Features:
Music Player
Blog / Bulletins
Comments
Forums / Groups
'Friend' Addition
Video and Photo Gallery uploading
Profile Personalisation - HTML / CSS
Pros:
Everyone knows how it works
Great way to get your music to millions of people
You can search members by 'Musical Influence' to target your audience
Cons:
It can be hard to get anyones attention as the community is so vast
Editing your profile can prove quite cumbersome
Its easy to add a million friends but its not so easy to get a million plays
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Tony Vani and Debbie Hoskin
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1/9/2008 4:34:12 PM
Hey Ben Elliot! Looks like you and I are friends now over at myspace! Hey buddy! lol
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fly on the wall
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1/9/2008 8:24:00 PM
It's not irrelevant to actually consider who you're doing business with. Would you put your music on a KKK run site? Most likely not. Fox and My Space are in numerous ways the antithesis of the indie movement, they are corporate and callous. They wouldn't answer a support issue if you wrote them saying you were going to commit suicide. It rather amazes me that alert artists would want to help pay Hannity and O'Reilly's salary.
My Space sells ads by exploiting teenagers with low self esteem, as a friend of mine often says. You can't be 13 with a page there and only have 2 friends, you have to start clicking or be deemed an unpopular loser.
I find it interesting in a sociological context that Red Robin would dig up a thread from months ago to further push his My Space agenda. How many times do we have to have this same discussion here? Everybody hurry and be his friend, maybe at some point he'll reach his critical mass at 500 or 1000 friends or whatever he's going for.
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RedRobin
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1/9/2008 11:56:39 PM
Fly - I do not "have a MySpace agenda" other than to take advantage of it for networking and promoting my music and also being inspired by and enjoying other people's music - Exactly the same reasons why I am also here.
Neither am I aiming for a 'Friend' count - If your music isn't to my taste or there's something about you which comes across as dislikable to me, I ain't gonna either accept nor request you as a 'Friend' there - There's no point. I find the whole 'Friend' build evolves organically without much effort.
In looking at HOP's looooong list of blogs purely out of interest, I noticed the title and was curious....read it.....and posted. I am very new to the blogs and Pipeline here on IAC and so I don't know how many times you have had such discussions. If it was of so little interest then surely people wouldn't bother to post here.
Regarding ads, there are so many that it's so easy to ignore them - Actually easier than it is here! The advertisers are being conned - How many people do you know who also totally ignore them?
My 16yo daughter and her friends use MySpace and, on her own decision (not mine), has her profile set to private. She doesn't have low self-esteem and neither do those of her friends whom I know.
If the indie movement is so focussed on being so anti it's more than sad. You are entitled to your opinions and I respect that you do your best to live by your principles. I ask you to respect mine.
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Slimdog Productions
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1/10/2008 12:18:39 AM
Mine is www.myspace.com/slimdogproductions
Myspace has its pluses and minuses. I get decent plays and views plus I have met the majority of the artists I work with there. Good for networking. 2mental, a artist I have collabbed with, got contacted by Columbia Records there. I have a interview with Hollywood Music TV Canada at the end of the month. Loud Records has contacted me and I am a client of a music business promo company out of LA that's shopping some of my music around because of myspace. I am here at IAC more though because I don't feel lost in the shuffle like myspace and I listen to more artists here than I do there. The community is the best anywhere and because of IAC, I RARELY listen to radio anymore.
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Slimdog Productions
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1/10/2008 12:30:29 AM
I've actually had Missy Elliot, Little Wayne, Beyonce and Selma Hayek (YES, the REAL Beyonce & Selma Hayek) leave a comment on my page on my old myspace page before it got hacked. When you sort through all the fake pages (most artists and actors will put up a pic of them holding a paper with their myspace ID # or have some REAL photos up), just ask them a GOOD question pertaining to their music or themselves. You'll be surprised what may happen. LOL.
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Bruce Boyd
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1/10/2008 1:06:39 AM
"But good exposure is good exposure.
Send friend invites to all!!!
Networking: It's the way we Indies get exposure.
There is a lot of talent here and we need to get each other heard"
I'll go along with that:
www.myspace.com/nullaki - for my Celtic stuff
www.myspace.com/nullaki2 - for my blues/rock stuff
I've sent an invite to all those above
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RedRobin
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1/10/2008 1:51:46 AM
Bruce - We have already found each other on MySpace, 'Friend'. Cheers!
Slimdog - Even I who don't have your track record have been invited on three quite distinctly different collabs for 2008 from being on MySpace. As you say, there are pluses and minuses, as there are in everything.
Think Positive! My glass is half full and not half empty.
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No Rhythm
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1/10/2008 3:54:11 AM
Quite a volatile subject I see.... I only recently started a myspace page to run an ad for recruiting purposes for the band as you were very limited in the free (I'm a tight arse) classifieds, about how much you could say, so I referred people to it to explain fully what I was looking for. But suddenly I was thrilled at the idea of people listening to my music, and like most people I imagine would, couldn't wait to get home and see how many plays I'd had for the day.
But I really couldn't get into the friends side of it. Seemed too.......phony.
Then one day I received an email from IAC, not sure how or why it just came out of the blue, and suddenly my interest in myspace went from c'mon c'mon to aw shit I had better check myspace too. I find this site more to my liking, but as someone mentioned earlier if someone asks you about your website you'll give them your myspace page first because it is a well known site. I always tell people to go there and then click on tha IAC link to get to my real page though.
I won't bore you any longer except to say.. http://www.myspace.com/norhythms
Cheers Mark
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Andy Broad
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1/10/2008 4:31:48 AM
I think the feeling many get of "Freinds" being phoney comes from the word itself, if you think of it as "contacts" "links" "colleagues" "mailing list" etc. it sits much more easily.
My biggest issue with myspace is the way they interfere with your code and links offsite, adding "security warnings" disabling things etc. It's way too controlling, that's why I still have a conventional website, I can do what I like there. Seems you can do quite a lot here as well, although the editors habit of inserting <br> after each new line doesn't help :-)
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fly on the wall
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1/10/2008 5:09:13 AM
I'm not looking to add to my friends tally but here's my page, please oh please add me, hurry.
http://myspace.com/thatwassatirereallyIdonthaveapageareyoukidding
I so love My Space because I'm friends with John Lennon and Jim Morrison, they write me regularly. It's them, it really is, they are good people. Did you know Lennon lives in Marin County now?
Thanks for the add.
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RedRobin
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1/10/2008 5:15:28 AM
....Yes, Fly - We all believe you :)
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Hop On Pop
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1/10/2008 5:16:09 AM
I had a discussion with my friend Matt (who owns the label that I'm on), and the paradigm of music distribution has already shifted dramatically, and will only continue to shift.
Trying to get your music out is like living on the San Andreas Fault. Nothing is assured. That is why we need to use EVERY SINGLE means at our disposal. MySpace is just another tool. But we can use IAC as our home base; our ground zero. Because we know the artists here, and we know that it's all good.
This is a place that we can all be proud to be a part of, but it cannot be our only place on the internet. MySpace is extremely well-traveled, whether we like it or not.
That is why IAC should have (with the help of all of us here) a much larger presence on MySpace (there is alread a group or two... see above) and all over the 'net. No need to talk ill of MySpace, because it can be a great tool for all of us, and IAC itself.
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fly on the wall
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1/10/2008 5:31:59 AM
Hop on Pop, where do you draw the line as far as placing your music?
1. Would you place it on an openly anti semetic site?
2. Would you place it on a corporate site that's responsible for killing baby seals?
3. Would you place it on a site that runs a 24/7 TV network that supports the war in Iraq?
4. Would you write your link in graffiti in the men's bathroom stall? For a good time, hoponpop.com. :~D
Just wondering if there is any line. Seems kind of whorish for artists to not consider that question. We are where we eat.
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RedRobin
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1/10/2008 5:39:17 AM
....Life isn't always quite so black and white, Fly. If you dig deep enough you'll probably find something to justify being anti about in absolutely everything.
It's very noble but human beings are full of fascinating paradox.
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fly on the wall
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1/10/2008 5:47:07 AM
No need to, being anti your bs will suffice. :~D
So tell us, would you put your music on a site run by a terrorist organization that blew up a pet shelter that housed 6000 baby kitties? Just a hypothetical.
For the slow people out there, I'm not trying to say My Space is that. I'm just wondering if that question would be something that even enters into the equation. Does it matter at all to an artist trying to get their music out there what a site stands for, or on the other hand would you see it as good they killed the kitties because that week, their site is higher profile so you got twice as many hits on your song?
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fly on the wall
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1/10/2008 6:00:31 AM
From what I read, it doesn't seem like that's a consideration for many. I'm not trying to say you're a bad person if you have your music on My Space, not at all, just that the corporation that owns them is clearly part of the same goliath that represses/squelches indie music on various other corners. Corporate interests only care about indie as much as they can exploit indie for their own profits.
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Hop On Pop
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1/10/2008 6:01:42 AM
Fly,
Your stance to me reminds me a bit of Dennis Kuscinich: He is an astonishingly left-wing, liberal candidate. He is also a man that I admire totally and completely. His morals are impeccable and his stances are ones that I can get behind completely.
Sadly, I would never vote for him for president. There has to be a reality check somewhere. Claiming that the terrorists have to be "treated as real people with real feelings" is something that is absolutely true. But it's also completely dangerous and impossible to do, due to the reality that WE ALL HAVE CREATED. They hate us and want to kill us. It's a little something that we have to take into account. (And I am a left-leaning democrat.)
Stating that I would put my music on a Nazi site or a site responsible for killing kittens is a bit extreme. Of course I wouldn't. But, that's not what MySpace is doing. Yes, it is a corporate site. But then, would you turn down a major label offer? If you would, then I'll start believing your sermon on the mount. But only if you get on a smaller horse.
There's a big banner below the window in which I'm now typing, advertising cosmetics.
We all want to be heard. And the sites all need to finance their ventures. There is absolutely no harm in that.
But, in this ever-changing landscape, in which even the Indie labels -- especially the indie labels -- are gonna sink, we have to find a way.
IAC is a great home base. But we gotta swing for the bleachers sometime, too. (I ove baseball metaphors!)
With all due respect, you're being very Kucinich about this. And God love you for it. But we need to look at the actual world in which we live, sometimes. No matter how much it hurts to do so.
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Hop On Pop
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1/10/2008 6:12:20 AM
That is my point.
I suppose that I stated it poorly.
I admire his idealism. But yes, they do need to be rendered ineffective. And they do first need to act like humans. I suppose that was what I was trying to say, as my fingers were flying.
But, let's stay on-point, Larree. We're still talking about MySpace, here. That was just an analogy.
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fly on the wall
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1/10/2008 6:24:35 AM
Big difference between accepting a label deal which may actually pay you real money and to support a site you must surely know is only interested in you to the extent you add to how much they can charge advertisers.
Saying the sites all need to finance their ventures makes it sound like what their ventures are is not part of what you have to take into account.
I'm glad to hear you wouldn't put your music on a Nazi site, maybe there's some hope for you. :~D
The actual world is such that corporate power and exploitation of whatever falls into their lap is by definition a natural adversary of independent artists. If you want a few more hits for your song that's fine and good but understand that you're feeding your captor (if you dare choose to look at the big picture) On the other hand, if you think the so-called indie cause is just silly talk, you can of course ignore all this.
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Hop On Pop
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1/10/2008 6:33:32 AM
I not only see your side, but I am on it.
And I am looking at the big picture... because, as I said, the Indie label, as we know it, it dying. So, instead of bickering, let's work on solutions to getting heard, ON OUR OWN TERMS.
For now, MySpace is the biggest place to get heard.
IAC is the best. But we have to get the word out.
I'm not saying feed our captors, but use them to our advantage, until we can leave them behind. Use them to help get the word out, until we no longer need them.
So, do you see the difference?
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RedRobin
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1/10/2008 6:55:48 AM
Fly wrote: "The actual world is such that corporate power and exploitation of whatever falls into their lap is by definition a natural adversary of independent artists. If you want a few more hits for your song that's fine and good but understand that you're feeding your captor (if you dare choose to look at the big picture) On the other hand, if you think the so-called indie cause is just silly talk, you can of course ignore all this."
....I thought that IAC was simply a place where musicians and music lovers came to share and network their music and not be a cell for extreme anti capitalism or anti mainstream music business.
Obviously there's going to be a variety of sometimes diametrically opposed opinions among any group of people, but shouldn't we all be more tolerant of each other's views? Both you and LarreeHollywood's language towards myself in particular is often quite out of order.
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fly on the wall
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1/10/2008 6:57:58 AM
That's a nice concept, using My Space for indie revolution purposes. I'm afraid though that it's mainly used to run up the old friend count.
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Hop On Pop
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1/10/2008 7:03:38 AM
That's a nice concept, using My Space for indie revolution purposes. I'm afraid though that it's mainly used to run up the old friend count.
Of course it is.
But, it doesn't have to be.
Not by us.
That's why there's a chess game.
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fly on the wall
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1/10/2008 7:04:52 AM
Now what language did I ever use towards you that was out of order? You calling people "anti" who don't agree with you is out of order if you ask me.
Having issues with the corporate music business is not anti-capitalism.
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1/10/2008 7:15:21 AM
I like Hop on Pop's idea. We've talked about doing some kind of organized thing like that, I wonder what would be a good way to go about it if we had, say, 20 of us who wanted to do a raid? :D
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RedRobin
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1/10/2008 7:18:44 AM
....I totally accept your apology, LarreeH and I also apologise to you for my views giving you any offence. I respect your passion if not your use of language!
Peace
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Hop On Pop
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1/10/2008 7:23:35 AM
Record labels are dead.
Sites like IAC are the new labels.
Thing is, if that's the case, these sites are going to have to start standing for something. They're going to have to start picking and choosing their rosters, which would be sad. But I do think that this is the way that it's all gonna start happening.
Sites like IAC will start offering contracts to bands to post their music and sell it through them. In turn, IAC (and similar sites) will provide a stronger presence in the marketplace with marketing and their name behind them... helping the artist achieve a larger audience through a bolder internet presence. And, yes, y'all are even gonna have to deal with the radio beast — be it corporate, independent, or college and whatnot.
In turn, sites like IAC will earn money, not only through taking a (small, God love you) pecentage of music sales, but they will also be able to make money through advertising, as their name grows, and they build a reputation for the kind of music they represent. Traffic will come, and advertising revenue will also stream in with increased music streaming.
Now, if you want to hire me as a consultant, feel free. Labels are dying. And there is a void to fill. You all are in a prime position to fill that void, while simultaneously fulfilling your vision of bringing quality indie music to the world.
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RedRobin
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1/10/2008 7:26:53 AM
Fly - Numerous very sarcastic paragraphs specifically naming me, in this and other threads.
My use of the word "anti" is not meant to be an insult. I have always made it clear that I respect the views of others whether I agree with them or not.
BUT, let's take this opportunity to make peace and both make an effort to respect each other's views. The rest is up to you.
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RedRobin
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1/10/2008 7:58:33 AM
....Lots of good ideas, Hop On.
Dunno what form a "raid" could take though.
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Hop On Pop
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1/10/2008 10:49:31 AM
Maybe some sort of internet-based Elephant 6-like collective?
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Slimdog Productions
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1/10/2008 11:00:10 AM
"I so love My Space because I'm friends with John Lennon and Jim Morrison, they write me regularly. It's them, it really is, they are good people. Did you know Lennon lives in Marin County now?
Thanks for the add."
So anti, that you got to poke fun at a comment? Don't believe that the actual artists do not contact some people who do ask questions...so be it. It happened and if the people I mentioned took the time to hear my music and see my site, that's all the better. Maybe they are checking IAC right now. Who knows? I may not be as "popular" as the mainstream artists, but I do take the time to answer back anyone that sends me a comment. I'm sure when they aren't busy, they check out their sites to keep in touch with their fans. Myspace IS a good way to keep in contact with fans without them stalking or ripping your clothes off (even though every once in awhile that may be fun). Corporate as it is, it is a good networking site.
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Shayne Malone
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1/10/2008 12:22:38 PM
Well, seems like I better join the revolution and add my MySpace contact here :)
www.myspace.com/shaynemalone
What a massive thread this has become!! haha Great to read everyone's opinions... for and against... but like it is generally agreed - any exposure is good exposure :)
Cheers
Shayne
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1/10/2008 1:03:38 PM
The fact is that many of those name artist pages at My Space are totally bogus and even the authorized pages are often manned by reps who write back using the artists' name. I myself have contacted artist reps in realtime (on the phone and thru their company Emails) saying to them that the artist has a My Space page, why not come to IAC, only to be told by their people that the artist in question and his record label had absolutely nothing to do with the My Space page, and that fans and phonies start up a fair amount of these pages but that the labels often just let them stand due to the "any publicity is good publicity" rationale. One of the things that irks me the most about My Space is that they built much of their buzz through this little game that's going on, it was encouraged by them. Hell for awhile, til suits started being filed, anybody who wanted could post songs by any label act on their page. Some call it good business because it worked, but it's not playing fair. My Space's parent company can easily afford attorneys to fend off lawsuits brought about by their unscrupulous business practices Wouldn't it be nice if IAC could just start a page for Tupac Shakur like happened at My Space and was allowed by them? That's one of the artists IAC tried to bring to the site and was told up and down that the Tupac My Space page is not authorized in any way shape or form. That site hooked in a lot of teenagers by this crap that their favorite band is on My Space, wow, I talked to Puffy, and eventually after the site got huge, bands actually started uptheir own My Space pages because they didn't want some internet goofball claiming to be them. My Space administrators/management really didn't care one iota about respecting the rights of artists, they wanted their hits and their ad dollars at any cost. Of course, it's your prerogative to not care about any of this.
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RedRobin
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1/10/2008 1:46:42 PM
I expect I'll be accused by some here of defending MySpace and therefore I must be attacking IAC, but although I totally agree that the practices you describe are outrageous and clearly there's a lot of bad stuff done via MySpace, it isn't ALL bogus - I've got a couple of "name" artist 'Friends' whom I know to be genuine. Also, another who has a separate fan page on MySpace looked after by someone with her direct approval (I know this directly from her). There are also pages there which quite openly state that they are not the actual artist.
I don't in any way feel exploited or used by MySpace - In fact I feel quite the contrary, it's free and it's another place to share my music and network - I use MySpace to my advantage.
I really like this IAC site but, to be honest, I get fed up with the anti-MySpace and anti-Music biz rants that I have found since joining the blogs here. I describe some as "rants" because the language clearly makes them so. I came to the blogs to get more involved and learn more about IAC.
There is definitely much wrong with MySpace's owners/administrators but it's the people there who create and love music who matter much more and that's why I'm there AS WELL as here. Some of them are here too.
Of course I understand that you, Toby, are just calmly giving us your views and information in good faith and are not ranting.
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RedRobin
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1/10/2008 1:57:12 PM
I must be doing something wrong, Larree, I don't get hit on by the young chicks! Girlies in (police) uniform are always attractive - Velvet handcuffs? What's the secret? :)
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Chris Hance
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1/10/2008 1:57:34 PM
MySpace vs IAC?
IAC pwns myshittyspace anyday IAC is l337
And vive le f-u-c-k-i-n deeferance 2
ps, iac welcomes noobs from all other sites too
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RedRobin
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1/10/2008 2:02:54 PM
(@ Larree)....Yep, always stay cool.
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The Man With No Band
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1/10/2008 2:15:56 PM
Man I feel good .... I just did something I should have done a long time ago .... I just deleted my Myspace page !!! ... after reading this blog I was convinced to do what I KNOW I should have done a long time ago ...
There are actually people on this thread talking about REALITY ... Not voting for who you want to vote for ? ... that's exactly why everything is so screwed up in this country ! .... Keep selling out your souls ..... makes me sick....
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fly on the wall
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1/10/2008 2:20:47 PM
"I've got a couple of "name" artist 'Friends' whom I know to be genuine."
not unless you met them in person.
"I really like this IAC site but, to be honest, I get fed up with the anti-MySpace and anti-Music biz rants "
sure, that's why you boinked this thread from October and revived this discussion which had already seen its course. Personally I get sick of seeing people trying to lap up fake My Space friends, anywhere, especially here on a site that on so many levels puts that corporate craphole to shame.
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RedRobin
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1/10/2008 2:25:41 PM
Glad to hear you feel good, Sam. I once scrubbed my MySpace page but a few weeks later I met this nice lady at a gig who then persuaded me to go back. She isn't a cop and she's very real and not virtual.
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The Man With No Band
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1/10/2008 2:31:39 PM
Red Robin ... you speak of spending a lot of time aound native Americans ...
... and yet you sell out your soul ?
just doesn't compute in my book ...
and Todd you speak of being American ..
.... and yet you sell out your soul ?
just doesn't compute in my book ...
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Hop On Pop
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1/10/2008 2:44:24 PM
In America the free market rules.
Everything is for sale.
Don't get much more american than that.
;-)
And I am speaking of using the users.
Widen your view, bro.
And remember, that I am on your side; calling names will not help.
Guess what I'm trying to say is:
"Lighten up, Francis."
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Hop On Pop
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1/10/2008 2:45:49 PM
PS - IAC does, in fact, rule.
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RedRobin
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1/10/2008 2:48:38 PM
Dear Fly! There's really no hope is there.
If I start mentioning names I expect you'll accuse me of name-dropping.
I wasn't here (Topics) in October - Is there a rule which says that newcomers can't post in discussions/blogs before their arrival here?
I've explained how I came to bump this thread (I've bumped other threads of interest to me too) but you just won't accept the honesty of my explanations.
You leave me no choice: It's your problem, buddy - Unfortunately I can now see that you're simply not worth any effort, not because we have different opinions but because you insist on being so disrespectful and unpleasant and actually imply that I have ulterior motives. The spider is my friend. :)
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The Man With No Band
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1/10/2008 3:01:35 PM
Todd ... I'm not for sale ... never will be ...
when you speak of being real ... by your own words ... you say that means to be fake ? ... I'm not trying to put you down but rather try to understand your words...
Do you think the idealist that made this country great died after the revolution ?
Do we have to buy into this whole elite two party system in order to be real ?
I'm disturbed by this sentiment ...
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RedRobin
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1/10/2008 3:03:29 PM
Sam wrote: "Red Robin ... you speak of spending a lot of time aound native Americans ...
... and yet you sell out your soul ?
just doesn't compute in my book ..."
....You shouldn't put people up on a pedestal. Doing so is something that many of my Native friends find either sad or get pissed off about because it's stereotypical. They are people with human failings and qualities just like anyone else.
I haven't sold my soul and I think that some of my Native friends (including those on MySpace whom I know personally) would be pissed off if you told them they had sold their soul by being there. In fact there's one in particular who most certainly hasn't sold his soul to anyone and has paid for standing up for his beliefs with the taking of his pregnant wife's and children's lives!
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Slimdog Productions
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1/10/2008 3:06:36 PM
"Dude. John Lennon and Jim Morrison are dead. They do not write back."
Dude. No shit...Fly was making jest of the comment about my supposedly hearing back from Beyonce and Selma. Story is this: I went to Beyonce's myspace site after I had gone to the charts to see who was on top as far as who's hot. I clicked her site just to be curious and saw that it was her official site. She had a song up at the time that had a sample from one of Tupac's hit songs (Tupac's dead. He won't be writing back either Larree). I asked about how she got the song cleared and told her how nice it was. Wasn't expecting back any answer, but got one from her a week later. Didn't close the comment with, "Beyonce" but with "B", which is the nickname she goes by. Believe it or not...Oh well.
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The Man With No Band
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1/10/2008 3:45:10 PM
Red Robin ... I too have very many Native American friends ... as a matter of fact I married a Cherokee woman and we lived on the reservation in Oklahoma for a time ...
They taught me it is good to put these questions out there ... so if your Native American friends are offended then I presume I am wrong....
What baffles me is that you have supported most good cause threads I have seen here ... (Abuse, Animal rights, etc. etc.) ... and yet you so strongly defend a site that has used deceit and greed and would not bat an eye to stoop to much lower things all in the name of greed and things that every Native American I have ever met are strongly against...
That is not stereo typing ... that is the Pride of the Nation ...
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RedRobin
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1/10/2008 4:52:36 PM
Hi Sam,
I'm not actually defending MySpace as an organisation - In fact I'm sure I have already stated that I don't support those who run it. I am defending my USE of MySpace and I've been responding honestly in accordance with the tone of various posts in the IAC Topics. I'm also defending the rights of those friends I have there to also use it, same as I would defend IAC fellow members in discussion.
Whereas I accept that there are those here who detest MySpace with a passion, I genuinely feel that IAC would be an even better place if some of its members were less hung up about it. Perhaps I haven't really understood what IAC is all about - Is IAC itself a movement which is so strongly against MySpace and/or the current music business? Perhaps I have missed that as a fundamental aspect if indeed it is so. However, Toby's posts lead me to believe that IAC itself is neutral as an organisation though some of its administrators privately might not be.
I'm just politely and openly discussing or challenging views which are different from my own and I'm also always open to changing my views. And I'm mature enough to also admit when I'm wrong and not so proud that I won't apologise to someone when I think I'm wrong.
As I said before, Native Americans have the same human weaknesses and strengths that other people have. There is greed and corruption among some just as elsewhere. Yes, the vast majority of Indians are against greed etc and yet many see nothing wrong in using MySpace. Some of my Indian MySpace Friends are activists and literally warriors for their nation's rights - Pride of the Nation. My MySpace page openly declares my support and I am respected for this. I am accepted by many in the Circle as a Traditional Dancer and honoured but I am not THE expert on all Indian matters.
Thankyou for being so reasonable in your discussion on this topic - It is appreciated.
I have a long but enjoyable drive tomorrow so I must get some sleep (I love my car).
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Hop On Pop
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1/11/2008 4:59:01 AM
You bring the big ones down from the inside.
To start a revolution, you have to be immersed in it.
It does not make me feel good, but for a revolution to get out, you have to get the word out. You get the word out by using all outlets at your disposal.
For the time being the two-party system is a reality. I truly fell that there will only be a third when a high-profile candidate that is a member of one of the parties, makes a high-profile break. And then retains their position.
So, to make that analogy... we can be as idealistic as we want, Mr. Kucinich, but we have to live in the real world. Idealism alone only wages the wars. If one wants to truly win, there has to be sound strategy backing that idealism up.
The pen is mightier than the sword only when you can get somebody to actually read your messy scrawls.
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