Topics
Basic (free) Member
|
| | | |
Voodoohead Productions
|
12/16/2012 12:54:50 PM
---- Updated 12/16/2012 1:38:22 PM
musicianship vs entertainer
i thought I drop this subject here,
throughout the years of being involved in the industry I have found out a lot about many aspiring and established individuals in this music industry.
One thing that stands above most everything else though is one has to be a really good entertainer to survive the long haul. Musician of course enters in to the whole scheme. but if your attitude blows and you have no class and are arrogant as hell but a masterful musician. that is actually a strike against you. although there are exceptions. no club wants to hire a prima donna and rather have an average joe blow musician with great entertainment skills then a person who comes across as condescending prick
I have seen evidence of this even in my dealings with musicians who sound off how great they are, but have no class on stage. sure they may be stellar performers and great musicians, but if they dont possess the ability to carry themselves properly on stage with some kinda personality and interact with the audience then they are as about as useless as a tit on a boar's ass.....I rather be around someone that has some humility and respect for others and be a reasonable player performer then a big headed I am the greatest there is
it is by the way really the entertainment business anyways. that is what you are being paid for, to entertain folks now are'nt you. , it is just not playing 5 minutes of leads on guitar every tune and bore all the people listening at the gig or fest, people , most people dont care except yourself and maybe your friends and virtuoso's , lol
just saying
|
|
Steve Ison
|
12/17/2012 1:05:21 PM
---- Updated 12/17/2012 1:22:50 PM
I see what you're saying Bryon -but a big part of me isn't keen on the fact that maybe 90% of people are far more into the 'personality' of the performer than the music they make..
Of course i'm aware thats 'just the way it is' but it explains why there's so many famous people pedalling mediocre songs to 10s of 1,000s and people with far far better songs playing to 10 indifferent people somewhere...
In my (admitedly singular) world view it seems very unfair n unjust - and dosn't serve the evolution of cool music at all..
The 'entertainment' angle has always been a major thing i know-but i just think in the 60s/70s you generally needed better songs with more individual personality,invention n quality than now to make it..
People seemed to demand that then..Interesting chord changes,unexpected turns etc,,
I don't even think songwriting (at least how i see it) is even a factor at all anymore in the average persons minds about what makes someone successful or not..
Its ALL about the looks n (mainly) personality now it seems...
As for drinking and performing..The few shows i do - i definitely make sure i've had a few drinks before i perform..It makes me a much better -less self-conscious,more relaxed performer - and most importantly puts me on the same level as the audience - as they've been drinking too
Tho the point about the '5 minute improvised lead solo's' i totally agree with..
Whether the performer's drinking or not -i'm def not into that lol
|
|
Voodoohead Productions
|
12/17/2012 6:52:26 PM
Good response Steve. i dig it, although, to each whatever. they want to do whether they have a few, in balance. not going overboard, I am not saying virtually going crazy to the extreme.
Its a process though, one learns how to entertain during the apprenticeship of learning the ropes of performing, mastering songs, becoming a professional at what one does, no matter what that vocation may be, not just a musician-performer entertainer. it is all in the eyes of the BEHOLDER and LISTENER, that is what really counts
it is subjective I guess, in song and I guess ultimately being in the moment.
and bottom line, Having Fun doing what you are doing , because you love what you do ,and are doing what you love
thanks for taking time to offer your insight and experience
|
|
Voodoohead Productions
|
12/17/2012 7:04:44 PM
Think it is a process for each artist, some are really good right off. naturals, others it takes time to develop their style. it is art, and art is appreciated in the eye mind ear of the beholder. for me it is never going to be the personality, it is about the music, but lets face it, people want to be entertained, now if that is sitting there taking it all in at a jazz gig grooving to the vibe,. really it depends on the genre and style of music, that is probably part of it, so I see your point and hear ya Steve,
I think I should have said this,it aint always about talent but hard work and diligence,but take time to learn your craft is all i am saying, it aint all show,, it is a combination
but for others well it is indeed sometimes smoke and mirrors,
|
|
Tom O'Brien
|
12/17/2012 8:45:14 PM
You both have great arguments. I think this topic is ripe for conversation.
We entertain not only when we are on stage - our persona, however big or little, follows us around and informs everything we do. We are acting the part of "musician" or "songwriter." We've been acting that part a long time and have gotten quite good at it. Of course one can have a stage persona that is totally different than the off-stage person, but if a musician is good in my book, then he's honest about who he is. I'm not into masks and choreographers. I'm into someone who has examined himself as he grows into a musician and is ready to present his findings.
|
|
Chandra Moon
|
12/18/2012 3:09:44 AM
Live performance doesn't come at all naturally to me though that's partly because I didn't start songwriting till I was around 50 and just wasn't used to it. Now I love performing when I have other musicians on stage with me such as my keyboard player who knows my stuff inside out and it gives me great confidence.
Earlier this year I played a small side stage at WOMAD (a big festival) and was much less nervous as I managed to find someone at the last minute to join me and do backing vocals.
Just me alone - that's fine for small gigs and open mics but not the big stage. I just don't have the charisma!
|
|
Voodoohead Productions
|
12/18/2012 6:19:03 AM
Let me clarify a few things about what I posted here.
Firstly, I have been performing and playing before audiences since I was young so I have found out a lot through experience and opportunities during that time. from doing piano concerts, some informal , some formal. I have been fortunate in playing my vibe as a solo performer in bands in small clubs, restaurants and venues and as well as festivals with blues bands. those are fun.
Secondly I have booked bands and sussed out places for them to perform,so I have seen the other side of what agents are looking for, the vetting process is very comprehensive and extremely competitive. especially these days
Thirdly, I have experienced well over a 100 concerts of pop rock jazz and blues bands in varying degrees of genres and sizes, maybe more.
Lastly during this process of participating performing and experiencing these opportunities I have learned the art of how to conduct myself and produce the best possible show there is. as a sideman, i listen to the leader, as a leader i direct, as a audience member I appreciate the art and quality of , ( or lack of ) the musical experience.
During this time of doing all this I have developed a wide and broad taste for live and recorded music.
most of you know what i do in the promoting aspect. and performance end as well
I love music, to that end it is the sharing of the talent one has, with others
I dont need to do drugs, drink alcohol or such prior to a gig, during a gig or after I have no interest in that. my high is the actual experience of the music thing
but that is just me. for others, maybe they need to. for me, it is not necessary
|
|
Steve Ison
|
12/18/2012 6:31:53 AM
Playing maybe once a month as i do -its ok for me to drink abit before playing-plus the fact i'm just a singer/songwriter performing my own songs (or some covers) on acoustic (sometimes with a woman who does harmonies)..Its technically totally undemanding - with the emphasis on self expression,self confidence and the 'personality' i put across..To that end having a few drinks serves me well..
If i was playing regular gigs like you Bryon i'd have to re-evaluate my position viz alchohol f'sure...And my mate Steve Harper who plays regular big gigs as guitarist with The Beat -never drinks before he plays - as what he does is exceedingly technically demanding - and its a rocky road health-wise drinking 4 or 5 nights on the trot lol
|
|
Voodoohead Productions
|
12/18/2012 6:41:54 AM
hey Steve, i am not passing judgement on anyone, I see performers have a glass of wine or beer sitting with there friends, or interested audience members shooting the breeze talking shop or whatever,enjoying a brew is not a biggie, I have a thing about it on stage, not so much in a pub thing , many times that is a part of the experience, but an actual for hire thing, I have laid down the law with those I perform with, nothing on stage, it looks bad, have a glass of water, the reason is how it looks, stuff gets kicked, accidental spilling of beer wine whatever occurs and equipment can get affected, I have seen that happen.
It is fine what one wants to do, it is a personal choice of course, having a few shots is cool, I have my drinks at home, but i dont want to drink and drive so I refrain from drinking at all as a concert goer and a performer. I have seen tragedy within our extended family as a result of that type of thing. and it still haunts me seeing a young life taken away
|
|
Stoneman
|
12/18/2012 12:34:34 PM
From the beginning I was taught that entertainment was the sole purpose of performing "live" music. Because of this, all the bands I was ever in (30+ in 9 genres) had that one purpose. Rehearsals were always all about making the show the best we could make it. It was the 60's, 70's and 80's and I played many different kinds of venues. The bands always had matching colors and clothing. We always had choreography or what we referred to as "steps". Each step was meant to accentuate the song we played. The horn section was always moving right along with the rest of the band. We always rehearsed in a room that had huge mirrors so the entire band could see itself. Anyone that was out of sync was fined part of their pay.
It was a very competitive time for bands in Los Angeles and only the most entertaining bands got the gigs. You had to build a live entertainment name for yourself and create a following that went wherever you went because they knew you were going to bring the heat! Most times I was the lead singer or what is referred to as the "front man" these days. The onus was on me to keep the crowd pumped and into our show. I wore lots of flashy crap and always got the crowd involved. I didn't feel like I had given a show unless I went home completely exhausted.
Later, when I began my solo career, I decided to accentuate my versatility in genres. That became my stage gimmick. I always had on layering's of clothing and a small changing closet on stage as I moved from one genre to the next. I became a quick change artist and my show was staged by using wigs and props. There were several segments of my show. When doing gospel I had on a suit and tie, Reggae? I had on dreads and a dashiki Rock? I had on a blonde wig T shirt and tight jeans Jazz? dark sunglasses and blazer Hip-Hop? Big gold chains, bandana and bare chested, R&B? shiny, glitzy space suits etc. etc. The idea was that no matter what kind of music you like, in my concerts I would eventually get to it. Because of this my audiences were just as diverse as my music. Musicianship was on display as I often played various lead instruments. But the main purpose of the show was to entertain. I loved seeing people laugh, dance, or pray when I changed into a new get up as my music changed to a new genre.
I am not ashamed to say that my shows were without doubt a visual spectacle. It was my onstage statement that I refuse to be put into a genre box and forced to stay there. I wanted people to know that I do many kinds of music and that I am rebellious about musical stereotypes. For live music, it was always about entertainment for me. I wanted to make people happy for that time that they took out of their lives to come see me. I wanted to see them up on their feet dancing or fire up joints while the Reggae vibe permeated the air. I am a ham and I know it. When I was on stage I wanted people to remember me. That was a long time ago but I still get requests from venues for me to come out and perform. Sadly, due to my physical conditions, those days are over. But even now when I go to see live entertainment, I expect to be wowed and entertained. Also, that is what I teach my students. I tell them that if people have spent there money and time to come see you, you need to bring the heat! Leave it all on stage. That's what I was taught and that's how I did it.
|
|
Voodoohead Productions
|
12/18/2012 12:39:48 PM
---- Updated 12/18/2012 2:40:43 PM
thanks stoneman for your insight and comprehensive explanation and personal experiences, it means a lot coming from you and that is how I actually would like people to experience the music groove and live shows. one has to draw the audience into the show, and share the sights and sounds and make it a memorable thing
appreciate your support, but most of all i appreciate your wisdom and understanding on this subject
as for your delightful accounts of presenting your vibe and perfomances and dressing the part and kicking out the groove,with pizzazz, well you embraced the whole idea of what I was trying to explain, showmanship, being a true entettainer, musician performer all wrapped up in one, but, to each their own, its about having fun and enjoying the moment
cheers
bryon
|
|
| |
�2015-16 IndieMusicPeople.com All Rights
Reserved
| |
|