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Tao Jones
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2/17/2010 9:57:01 PM
Back to Zero
There's something very sturdy about returning all the dials back to zero when you are mixing. You know you have wandered off and sort of fixed some issues, but meanwhile you have created new issues and you are getting confused. When you return to zero you hear exactly what's on the tracks in an unaltered way. Take off all effects all eq and listen straight up again. Even go back to no panning and get your bearings.
Then you try to get it right again using mostly eq subtraction not addition, and as little as you can get away with.
Virtually every sound source, every mic every thing seems to be a bit muddy, it all seems to need subtraction in the low mids high bass range. Why is that?
But when you subtract that stuff you also lose a certain strength, naturalness and head for some brittleness.
I don't know. In the years and decades I've messed with this, all the mixes are still the same challenges, and it still helps to rethink it when you're lost and get back to straight up zero. I like to see how close I can get to zero and yet have it mixed. That maybe is the sturdiest way.
Or maybe I just don't know what in the hell, I just feel my way through 'cause I love it....
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never never band
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2/18/2010 12:17:31 AM
Thats exactly the way I've seen real pro mixers fix an overproduced session.
Or even fix their own work when it gets to where you cant make those fine distinctions..It happens a lot when you get a lot of tracks happening.
I suck at it.
I either under produce it because I just dont know how to get it right, or I over do it because I'm feeling self conscious about a track that I dont feel I played well enough.
I have to get some distance, and really I have to get someone elses ears involved because I'm SOOOO self conscious about my playing.
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Conversation Suicide
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2/18/2010 11:30:35 PM
---- Updated 2/18/2010 11:32:14 PM
I think my best stuff's been recorded with an unbiased 3rd party's ears.
And I'm pretty fuckin' excited that the time for studio recording is FINALLY upon me again this year.
I'm gettin' a whole SLEW of unbiased ears on this one.
Should turn out somethin' good.
I was always taught ZERO-ing everything out is where to START, though.
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2/19/2010 5:18:55 PM
Wouldn't turning all the dials to zero mean you're like, you know, rolling off all the bass and treble?
I think you mean, maybe, (and sorry to quibble) but "turning the volumes to zero and setting all the EQ's back to neutral, the middle setting of no EQ. And taking all the effects out.
If you literally set everything back to zero that might also include (but not be limited to) erasing the guitar parts. Which might not be a bad idea.
When I get stuck in a mix, I try a different mixer.
Or different speakers.
Or hire a different set of fluffers.
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Paul groover,s Hangout
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2/19/2010 7:14:49 PM
Life is what you make it remember that 2nd shots take away from the orignal
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never never band
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2/20/2010 1:02:01 AM
I dont think he means a second shot...the recording is there, anything on it that you used in your front line is there, it isn't going anywhere.
It's not like your using your front line settings in your playback,
The Mic selection, Mic Pre, whatever front line "EQ" you may have achieved from your board is now The Track.
I think, sort of obviously, what he means is going back to the tracks as recorded without any post EQ, compression or other or plugins
thats exactly what I would do.
If it gets messy and you can no longer tell it's far more productive to work the session from the bottom up than the top down.
And if, by some good grace, you have good initial tracks, thats what you want to be playing.
If you dont have good tracks, it's always best to redo them than to try to fix them with toys...
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Paul groover
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2/20/2010 12:10:46 PM
Got the wrong end of the stick there mixing with a computer has 2 problems anti- aliasing and digital distortion which is nasty sounding not like analog tape distortion which gives a warm sound. I have been hoping for years that they would come out with a sound card with a valve amp stage. Which would allow you to push the mix into +db and still get a good sound.
For me though i spend 10 mins on each instrument starting with the bassdrum and work my way through the instruments and vocals until i have everything sitting in the sound stage with it,s own presence in the mix. After an hour or two i get hearing fatigue it,s not worth mixing as i start pushing the treble to compensate better to come back later. I,m no expert just another bedroom artist but have recorded in real studios so that helps
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never never band
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2/21/2010 12:48:14 AM
---- Updated 2/21/2010 12:50:38 AM
Danger 2 bus
with a good front end (high end mic PREs and and good clock, and this Summing amp you can make LOGIC or Protools mixes that sound like they were done on a $200,000 console.
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Tom O'Brien
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2/21/2010 5:41:42 PM
It's mostly because I don't know any better, but I always record with no eq. I just want to play the darned thing right. Then I think about the space that it's all taking up and how to mold it. I guess I kind of start at zero.
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