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Diver Dan
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9/3/2008 7:33:37 AM
Palin Files Ethics Complaint Against Herself..
This is interesting. I would say it's pretty obvious this woman has nothing to hide despite attempts to smear her..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/03/palin-files-ethics-compla_n_123461.html
"Gov. Sarah Palin wants a state board to review the circumstances surrounding the dismissal of Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan taking the unusual step of making an ethics complaint against herself.
Her lawyer sent an "ethics disclosure" Monday night to Attorney General Talis Colberg. The governor asked that it go to the three-person Personnel Board as a complaint. While ethics complaints are usually confidential, Palin wants the matter open."
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qelizabeth
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9/3/2008 8:50:45 AM
HAHAHAHA!!
She has no choice. She doesn't wanna get nailed or appear to be hiding something. 'Cause she'd get caught.
Good on her.
I'm all for transparency which is why I'm voting,
OBAMA/BIDEN 08 (in case you didn't know.)
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Diver Dan
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9/3/2008 9:09:04 AM
This message is from the McCain-Palin camp special delivery for you Qelizabeth.. :)
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Diver Dan
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9/3/2008 9:33:27 AM
I could have voted for Obama until I learned about "Born Alive Infant Protection Act' and the lengths he went to prevent it's passage. And allowing newborn infants to die, living, breathing American citizens with the same rights as everyone else in this country.., that's just so extreme, even Boxer, Pelosi, Hilary and NARAL can't understand that. I can't see voting for him now until he properly addresses that issue.
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Holo Lukaloa
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9/3/2008 9:45:51 AM
I'd be much more impressed to read:
PALIN REALIZES UPON HER SCHOOL LESSONS BY BUSH CRONIES THAT SHE DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE STATE OF THE WORLD AND DECLARES HERSELF UNSUITABLE TO BE IN LINE FOR THE PRESIDENCY.
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never never band
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9/3/2008 11:11:25 AM
Dan, the reason to vote against that legislation was that it defined "born Alive" as a child at ANY stage of development. And no matter if the labor was induced, accidental or the child was removed from the womb by extraction and if the fetus shows ANY sign of "life" .
"who after that expulsion or extraction breathes or has a beating heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles, regardless of whether the umbilical cord has been cut and regardless of whether the expulsion or extraction occurs as a result of natural or induced labor, cesarean section, or induced abortion."
the problem here is that a 5 week old fetus will move, and a Family could be required by law to spend hundreds of thousands of Dollars trying to keep it "alive" by the terms of this act.
The people who supported this Act did so either because they are ignorant of the Law, or because they are Horrified of people like you who don't read legislation but instead read tabloids, those people can vote them out even for doing the right thing.
Now, even if you are Completely against abortion you must see that the terms of this act are dangerous, they put Doctors and Civilians in an untenable position by shooting so far beyond the stated/supposed purpose of the act. Barack is a brilliant legal mind, he didn't support this against all those other voices for no reason, he just reads this stuff, understands the implications.
If, like I say, you are Against ALL abortion I sort of understand, but even that stance is profoundly overshot by this Act. This act includes a fetus outside the womb in any circumstance and at any stage of development. Car Crashes, Incompetent cervix, Violence, ANY circumstance...
P.
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Diver Dan
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9/3/2008 11:57:29 AM
The Born Alive Infant Child Protection Act has nothing to do with abortion. It's intended to protect the lives of living, breathing children, regardless of the fact they were born premature or via a 3rd. term abortion. It's intent, as supported by the most pro-choice politicians and advocacy groups, is to see these children have the same rights you had when you were born. Nothing more, nothing less.
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never never band
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9/3/2008 12:57:57 PM
My Mistake...
I thought that since you could Type you must also be able to read...
I just posted the paragraph verbatim in that last post.
have you ever read the actual act?
Let me try this paragraph again
""who after that expulsion or extraction breathes or has a beating heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles, regardless of whether the umbilical cord has been cut and regardless of whether the expulsion or extraction occurs as a result of natural or induced labor, cesarean section, or induced abortion."
Dont you get it? if this is the way the act reads than it doesn't matter what you "think" it represents, this is the law.
The way it reads any fetus showing any movement at ANY STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT must be sustained and has all the rights of a person.
so no matter what you want to pretend it means, this is what it means...
like I say, if you read legislation instead of tabloids you might get this.
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9/3/2008 1:00:51 PM
Forget that. You can't teach an old Sterling new tricks. haha
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qelizabeth
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9/3/2008 2:21:10 PM
Come on, don't be so hard on Diver. He's understanding the bill from his perspective, which is perhaps, and I say perhaps, pro-life. It is an abortion issue, Diver, and you have every right to be pro-life.
It seems to be an extreme cruel bill to you, and I totally understand. To a pro-choice person, it's hard to draw the line where conception begins. It's such a problem. Really.
Abortion is one issue I'm unsure on. But I'm sure we can all agree with our common sense and education that Obama does not want children to die. He treasures his two beautiful children and honors the elderly as well. He says that poor children are not other people's problem, that they are all our children, and I believe he means that.
We as Americans want children to be wanted and to thrive in a nurturing environment. That I know for sure.
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Diver Dan
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9/3/2008 2:28:04 PM
How you interpret the bill is bizarre at best no-band, I think the following
supports that.., it's intent seems clear to everyone but yourself.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,407882,00.html
"by 2003 the Born Alive Act had passed on the federal level, 98-0 in the U.S. Senate. Hillary Clinton, Kerry, Boxer, Kennedy, all voted for it. In fact, Kennedy and Boxer spoke in favor of it on the Senate floor."
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Diver Dan
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9/3/2008 2:40:19 PM
Qelizabeth, did you pay attention to the video McCain-Palin sent your way. It's the last few lines you're supposed to pay attention too..
Wake up (Qelizabeth)
Wake up..
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qelizabeth
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9/3/2008 2:42:33 PM
That's not a deal breaker for me.
I don't care what other people voted against. He spoke out against the war and that stance at the time was very unpopular. Some would argue he was only a state Senator at the time, but he had a voice and used it.
He saw a problem with the bill and voted against it.
As a person who would be dead if abortion was legal and as a mother myself, I could never have one, but I'm not sure how I feel about reversing Roe v. Wade.
What IS a deal breaker for me is that McCain chose Sarah Palin for political, not patriotic purposes. A deal breaker for me is Sarah Palin. Pretty and cool and refreshing she certainly is, but she wants to BAN BOOKS (a big dealbreaker for me.) and wants to teach ADAM AND EVE in Science class. Fucking scary. 'Scuse my French but really scary stuff.
Even the Pope acknowleges that Genesis (not the band-- they're real) is ALLEGORY.
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Diver Dan
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9/3/2008 2:56:55 PM
---- Updated 9/3/2008 2:58:38 PM
Well Qelizabeth, the entire body of evidence that supports the Theory of Evolution is rife with fraud, there's actually zero evidence to support it at all so why should this be forced in schoolchildren in this country?
I think it's reasonable to allow other viewpoints on the subject myself. The ancient Chinese believe the earth rotated on the backs of giant elephants.., makes about as much sense as evolution does. According to L. Ron Hubbard we came to this plant a few hundred million years ago on space planes and were exact duplicates of the DC-10 aircraft which easily makes as much sense as evolution since again, there is zero evidence to support such a claim. It doesn't mean Creationism should be mandatory but why should an unprovable theory have a monopoly on this subject and why should it be imposed on anyone, especially impressionable children? That's alot more scarier than Sarah Palin IMHO.
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qelizabeth
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9/3/2008 3:54:43 PM
---- Updated 9/3/2008 4:07:47 PM
I'm trying to make a point that book banning, Krystalnacht of sorts, is a DEALBREAKER for me, as well as teaching creationism as THE way we came to being.
Geez, you'd think that she's from the sticks and she's never been in real civilization before. . . . Oh Snap!
She's gorgeous, I'll give her that.
And I love her accent.
I just gotta say, you musicians here at IAC deserve to be OVERNIGHT SENSATIONS as much as Sarah Palin has become.
Wouldn't that be fun!? We could all say, "hey wait a minute, that's OUR Larree!"
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Diver Dan
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9/3/2008 5:57:09 PM
---- Updated 9/3/2008 5:58:50 PM
No Larree, Scientology is not being taught in public schools but it makes about as much sense as teaching Evolution does since neither has an iota if evidence to back up their claims.
And Qelizabeth. allowing only one theory about the origins on humans is what really amounts to book burning, not advocating including other beliefs on this subject should be allowable as well.
I would let them all in myself and let the students decide which makes more sense to them, they certainly are more capable of critical thinking that their teachers.
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never never band
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9/3/2008 6:00:56 PM
Sterling can you get through s single topic without the Scientology Propaganda?
My god your such a one trick pony.
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qelizabeth
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9/3/2008 6:16:47 PM
Back to Sarah Palin, She's not only the fresh face, but the Evangelist. They are aware of the fact that the Evangelists were going toward Obama. McCain wasn't even baptized and the Republicans desperately need the Evangelist vote.
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never never band
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9/3/2008 7:03:08 PM
And did you read that paragraph from the Born alive act?
it's not hard to understand, and the reason it got so many votes is because Congress doesn't read this shit, they voted the Patriot act through without reading it...
They have advisers and they go with it.
But if you READ it you'll see that it defines "alive" as having any muscle movement at ANY STAGE of development..
That's a serious problem and presents a host of legal and ethical issues.
I know you like things to be simple and divisive, but think about this..
If say, a 8 1/2 week old fetus was aborted after say..a car crash and it showed movement the entire ICU would be required to try to keep this fetus alive, it has all the rights of a person. actually a 5 1/2 week old fetus can move, arch it's back, it would have to be put on life support according to this legislation..
it's UNREASONABLE and a little creepy and it's really just a Trojan Horse to get closer and closer to legislation that defines life as beginning at conception (or in this case at about 6 weeks)
So it's not about what you say, It's not about what the Majority of those who voted for thought it was about. Congress famously does not read the legislation they sign.
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Diver Dan
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9/3/2008 7:11:59 PM
You couldn't be more wrong Qelizabeth, there's no way Obama could carry the Evangelical vote with his record on abortion, not a chance. Palin will appeal to normal everyday working class people and women as well, especially disgruntled Hilary supporters.
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Diver Dan
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9/3/2008 7:17:14 PM
Again never band, the Infant Born Alive Protection Act is about protecting the lives of living, breathing children.
I'll let Alan Key's explain it to you.
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never never band
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9/3/2008 7:59:20 PM
""the Republicans desperately need the Evangelist vote. ""
Yes they do, and once again we see that the old guard republicans just don't get it..
They still do not understand why they are losing the Evangelical vote, especially with young voters. Young Evangelicals actually believe in ideas like Grace and Redemption, they are serious and they can see that this older generation are full of shit. They have a keen eye for some things.
I really think the whole movement is scary, I don't like it, especially the Zionist Evangelicals, but I do think I understand them.
I dont think Sarah Palin is going to be high enough above scrutiny to persuade the Evangelicals who are jumping ship. Christians, the ones who really believe and are in it for more than the benefits of powerful political association are starting to see that the supposed "Christian Right" has abandoned 90% of traditional Christian Ideals, and young Christians especially are fed up with it.
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never never band
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9/3/2008 8:04:15 PM
Dude it doesn't matter how many videos you post, you're just revealing that you yourself don't know anything. This is a straight forward legal definition of "life" in the case of a Fetus and it oversteps...so no matter what you may WANT the legislation to mean, I'm telling you what it really does mean and it doesn't take much effort to penetrate the bullshit. It's a poorly written piece of legislation and as such is dangerous..
That's the way it is, no matter what you you want to pretend or what you may Wish it meant.
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Diver Dan
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9/3/2008 8:19:21 PM
You understand that Bill about as well as you understand Evangelicals. (And I know Evangelicals...)
They take their faith and the right of human life very, VERY seriously and to think they would ever vote for someone with such and extreme record on abortion is just to bizarre to comprehend.
Bye
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