9/7/2008 4:51:26 AM
The Drudge Report - Oprah refuse to have Sarah Palin on her show till the election is over??? Huh?

9/6/2008 7:14:47 PM
Biden, Iraq, and Obama's Betrayal..

9/6/2008 1:12:59 PM
The greatest cover band - Nouvelle Vague

9/6/2008 12:58:09 PM
So Toby. will we be getting a yuku type forum soon???

9/5/2008 6:07:29 AM
John McCain's speech last night..

9/4/2008 6:48:31 AM
Sarah Palin's great speech last night

9/4/2008 4:35:49 AM
What doyou think of putting Sarah Palin on Mt. Rushmore?

9/4/2008 6:48:31 AM

Sarah Palin's great speech last night

9/4/2008 12:41:17 PM

Boooo!


I'm not interested in anything she has to say. She deliberately found a loophole in Alaskan law and ordered the execution of hundreds of wild wolves by method of aerial gunning, which is cruel and illegal as hell.


She sucks.

9/4/2008 12:48:48 PM

On top of that she scoffed at the idea that Obama and Biden believe that the Guantanamo prisoners actually have rights.

9/4/2008 1:08:07 PM

Why all the disrespect, Jesse? :)


Holo, you already posted that on at least one other topic. Isn't it time to check with your seminar leaders for new talking points? :)

9/4/2008 1:12:43 PM

If I were you I wouldn't want to see that fact posted again either, Diane. How about Palin's desire to ban books from the Library? Or teach creationism in schools?

She's a horrible candidate. It's funny to watch you going along with her like a right wing puppet. I bet you watched on TV and stood up along with that standing ovation last night. Brilliant.

9/4/2008 1:24:09 PM

Diver Dan, we've told you before as we've told the others, one new political thread per day. You're the one who keeps abusing it though, disrespecting our wishes. Please stay within this or we'll have to take further action.

9/4/2008 1:32:06 PM

Rapid response there Holo! True believer huh? :)

It's cool. Because this IS a free country, you can keep on posting and pasting those "quarter-truths" -- if that -- as well as the totally made up stuff! :)

9/4/2008 1:48:24 PM ---- Updated 9/4/2008 2:09:18 PM

Actually Toby, you and no one else said anything of the sort to me that I recall. And I think this thread is more of a public service for those who didn't see this wonderful speech by this gifted lady who undoubtedly will be our president someday.

9/4/2008 2:00:30 PM

Hey Toby I was surprised you didn't get involved with my last blog, I thank you for that. Maybe you just didn't see it.

Diane, where's my recipe for the Ultimate Sunday Football Dip?

Holo, I know right? Let's teach the concept of Adam & Eve in school, duuuuhhh. Haha, isn't that where you go to buy sex toys on the net? ;) Besides, she doesn't believe in global warming either. Ignorance is bliss!

9/4/2008 2:11:27 PM ---- Updated 9/4/2008 2:11:27 PM

Holo, why should only Evolution be taught in schools when there is not a shred of scientific evidence that supports this fairy tale?

Please explain..

9/4/2008 2:39:02 PM

Diane!!
My little neo con beauty!
I missed you..
---}-@

Lets get specific here..and talk a bit about 1/4 truths, and 1/2 truths..

Like "I told congress thanks but no thanks" (that was my favorite lie of hers, which is tough call because there are so many) And ya know, Sarah was all for "earmarks" as Gov. and even wrote comments supporting them, she's on the record here and in fact a few of her earmarks were considered so unreasonable that even JOHN MCCAIN criticized them!

And that money for the "bridge to nowhere", you know the "thanks but no thanks money"..
It was never returned of course, it was just spent on less politically volatile project. Thats not exactly Illegal (but it's close) but many would call it unethical, especially if your going to come out later and indicate that you refused the money!!!

C'mon Diane! I'm not gonna let you hang out at our socialist parties if you keep acting like this! I have a red T-Shirt waiting for ya right here, and it's a beauty!

9/4/2008 2:39:45 PM ---- Updated 9/4/2008 2:42:02 PM

Holo, listen to me, dont start an evolution discussion with this guy..

it will go on for ever...and ever....and ever.

he's bug nuts crazy about it, just let it go buddy..

9/4/2008 2:57:56 PM

Agreed never band, don't start a discussion on Evolution because it's the biggest fraud ever created and no argument can ever change that because again, there is not one shred of evidence that supports Evolution but it's OK to force it on schoolchildren. Brilliant.

9/4/2008 3:19:21 PM

"Holo, why should only Evolution be taught in schools when there is not a shred of scientific evidence that supports this fairy tale?

Please explain.."

I'm not Holo but I'll take a shot at it ..... Religion has NO PLACE inside the four-walls of a public school ... If you want to have that crap taught to your kids then send them to a private Christian school, where they can really be warped and grow up and post silly comments on the web ...

You can argue all you want about no proof to Evolution ... but it's a good enough theory to me ... and it's based on SCIENCE not RELIGION ....

9/4/2008 3:25:50 PM

evolution? we evolved from apes? then how come we still have apes?

McCain/Palin 2008

9/4/2008 3:37:15 PM

I don't believe we Evolved from Apes ... and I don't know what school you went to but they never taught me that in science class to be a fact ... they did show us Darwin's work and what his theory's ... but they never taught it to us as a fact ....

When you want Creationism taught in our schools what is going to be your source book ?

The Bible ? .... You mean Christians are smarter than everybody else ? Should we use the Koran ? ... Oh I'm sorry that would offend you worse than Evolution ....

I got news for you ... Christians are not Holier than thou .....

9/4/2008 3:38:57 PM

I'm sorry no band but belief in Evolution is a religion in itself. Your belief in it is based purely on the faith it exists, not on fact it does.

And I agree with you that teaching the faith-religion of Evolution has no place on the Public Schools.

9/4/2008 3:45:13 PM

the 3 R's should be our agenda; respect, restraint & remember

9/4/2008 3:45:18 PM

... and we are still evolving ... whether you choose to stick your head in the sand or not ... DNA has proved that we all came from Africa ... and we all had dark skin .... (OH THE HORROR) !!!! .... Skin color changed as people branched out into regions that had different climates ... the body EVOLVED to it's needs ... It's not theory ... It's fact ... You all just can't stand the fact that you've been duped by a book of fairy tales ...

9/4/2008 5:31:25 PM

her speech was a series of one liners. little substance. here's the summary...

family family family
oil oil oil
obama sucks obama sucks
mccain is awesome!

*Applause*

9/4/2008 5:45:40 PM

She's appealing ... but I keep asking myself ... huh?

She seems to suffer from what I call "head in the sand" syndrome ... which is sort of a byproduct of "do as I say, not as I do".

When you live in the la la land of extremists ... and "believe" that people should live in a certain way ... and dictate to everyone else how THEY should live ... and somehow neglect to protect one's own daughter from the "realities" of the real world that exist outside of la la land.

Well ...

If one had paid more attention to one's immediate surroundings ... If one had been a better parent ... and less involved with your political career ...

Sorry, I know that's tough ... but she should have been more aware ... or at least ONE of the two parents should have had a REAL conversation about life and been better aware of what the hell was going on.

THEY (both parents) could have done better. They didn't. Frankly, I wouldn't have wanted to grow up in that household. The Clintons ... with all their unique troubles ... did better.

Obama says: Family is off limits. I don't think so. If your family is a train wreck, and you go about the world preaching ... well, from what soil do you grow? When one preaches, one calls one's credentials into question.

Additionally -- when one continues to have sex w/o protection in later years ... one ignores reality. For those that do; beget challenged children. Again ... "head in sand". Do I feel sorry for them. No. They ignored what they should have paid attention to. You can't fool mother nature.

It's like extremists who believe preaching abstinence to inner city children is the solution to teenage pregnancy. Such folks ARE DETACHED FROM REALITY.

Sarah Palin suffers from "head in the sand" syndrome.

She's not really fit for the highest political position in this country. She might get there by default. That scares me a bit. She's not worthy.

I'm really puzzled as to why she's there ... and I again, repeat, I'm rather conservative.

Sorry. Truth is weird. Politics make it even weirder.

Is all ...


Kev-

9/4/2008 5:45:44 PM

Please educate yourself no band..

http://www.mbbc.us/creation/shame.htm

9/4/2008 5:49:16 PM

lol jivewhiteboy. You know I was thinking, political campaigns have become pretty similar to hip-hop in the sense that it mostly involves somebody with a microphone talking about how great they are and how much everyone else sucks. They shouldn't call them debates anymore, they should be political freestyle battles yo.

Diver Dan, belief in evolution is just that, a belief. Religion is so much more complicated and fear inducing.

Sam, I couldn't agree with you more man. The Bible is a mere collection of stories. It's rare I find someone who agrees with me on that one. I chuckle at the folks that think Jesus Christ will rise again and save us all... pffff. That dudes been dead a looong time and he ain't never comin' back, if he even ever existed at all.

What would they teach in school in the other classes if they taught creationism? From a biblical standpoint, there were no dinosaurs. From a biblical standpoint, the Earth is only a few thousand years old... it's ridiculous. So what about all the kids that wanna be free thinkers and follow their own will? Will they burn in hell for all eternity? Geez and I thought homework sucked.

Cheers

9/4/2008 6:12:22 PM

btw ... I know I came off a bit overly harsh above.

But when anyone tells me what I should I do.

I look at what they do ... and at what measure I should take their word.

And S.P. just plain comes up incredibly short ... and sort of ... mildly nuttily disconnected from reality.

See? I made up another word.

K-

9/4/2008 6:19:35 PM ---- Updated 9/4/2008 6:24:49 PM

"Please educate yourself no band.." ... that is so very funny Ha ! ... I was brought up in a Christian home ... Although I am not a smart man I have read thousands of books ... and I studied the Christian religion feverishly for many years ... and I was a believer ... and I tried to make all the same arguments you do ...
... and then I decided to use the brain that "God" gave me ... That's when I got educated ... I learned about things that were proven facts ... not fairy tales ... It is you my friend that is seriously lacking in education ... I'm glad "God" opened my eyes ...

We did not come from the lands as professed by the Bible ... Proven Fact ... We do evolve ... Proven fact ... Do you know why Eskimos are short stubby people ? ... after human Migration from AFRICA to Asia and then up into the Arctic ... A band of people that were following the Reindeer (that was there source of food, clothing, and shelter) ... they got iced in, in the Arctic see ... and the original folks were much taller and thinner ... but blood does not flow to the extremities very well in a sub-zero climate ... so over a few generations the body adapted in order to survive ... it's all documented and proven ... you really should expand your mind and go beyond one source if you want to become "educated" ...

9/4/2008 6:26:16 PM

What always interests me about those who preach Christianity so much that they want it in public schools, is that the ones I've known to do that, I've also known to be some of the most cold, non-principled individuals I've ever met.

Also I heard the perfect de_scriptive word for the Obama-attacking part of Palin's speech last night. She is snide. When I hear them say she's just like one of them, does that mean they're snide and arrogant?

9/4/2008 6:39:13 PM

I expected attacks on Obama ... for considering the source, who wouldn't?

I didn't care about her being snide ... for considering the source, snide is expected.

I don't like Sarah Palin ... not personally, but in every way, shape and form one can disagree with someone who wants to lead this nation.

But I also don't like folks on this site who are here solely to fan the flames of political dissent. I've seen you, Holo sadly, do nothing else but.

K-

9/4/2008 6:39:15 PM

I expected attacks on Obama ... for considering the source, who wouldn't?

I didn't care about her being snide ... for considering the source, snide is expected.

I don't like Sarah Palin ... not personally, but in every way, shape and form one can disagree with someone who wants to lead this nation.

But I also don't like folks on this site who are here solely to fan the flames of political dissent. I've seen you, Holo sadly, do nothing else but.

K-

9/4/2008 6:46:33 PM

What I think:

Creationism shouldn't be taught in school.
Evolution shouldn't be taught in school.
Nothing should be taught in school that transcends human understanding. Stick to math, reading, writing, factual history and real science (hold the junk).

So far I like Sara Palin. I haven't seen or heard anything negative about her yet. Of course it's early, but I don't see anything not to like.

I'm not going to argue about it because I won't be changing anyone's minds. I'm just a non-musician. But maybe it matters to some other folks like me out there who read these blogs with a cringe. It's just what I think.

One more for McCain/Palin

9/4/2008 7:19:36 PM

Evolution isn't real science?

That's funny.

It's hard to take candidates seriously that pander to people that frequent an amusement park with exhibits showing little girls riding dinosaurs.

I mean, to mean that's just hilarious.

Or it would be if they didn't also vote.

Yeah, but let's not do any teaching of real science...wouldn't want to shatter anyone's religious bubble...

9/4/2008 8:06:26 PM

Um ... the definition of science is human understanding, stripped of mythical belief, embodied by proof.

Just a clarification. This should stimulate some discussion.

K-

9/4/2008 8:18:08 PM

i'm curious as to this:

when Obama chose Biden as VP, it was noted that this was a great move because Biden would be a bulldog and go after McCain.

so...why is it NOT okay for Palin to be a Pitbull with lipstick to go after Obama?

seems to be the same old tired-ass double standard. are we still not past that crap?

which brings me to the other half. what about the boy involved with this teen pregnancy? is he not also responsible? wish i had a nickel for every 17 year old that has gotten pregnant since the beginning of time. i'd be richer than rich.

you--who are without sin or a momentary loss of morals; dare you cast the first stone? just remember, what goes around, comes around.

McCain/Palin 2008

9/4/2008 8:18:30 PM

Here's a good dose of wisdom for everyone..

http://www.icr.org/article/455/


"The fact is that evolutionists believe in evolution because they want to. It is their desire at all costs to explain the origin of everything without a Creator. Evolutionism is thus intrinsically an atheistic religion. Some may prefer to call it humanism, and New Age evolutionists may place it in the context of some form of pantheism, but they all amount to the same thing. Whether atheism or humanism (or even pantheism), the purpose is to eliminate a personal God from any active role in the origin of the universe and all its components, including man."

9/4/2008 8:38:53 PM

wait, I though you were trying to push this Sarah Palin speech Dan..

what do you think about her keeping that money?
and all the earmarks she achieved and defended? and then comming out like it never happened...

or Hucks little snark about how she got more votes as mayor than Biden running for president?
HA HA!

she got 1700 votes,
Biden got 76,000....

Now I know with all the cuts in education we cant expect these cats to be all that refined when it come to math..But this is just telling big ol fat lies and assuming we're to dumb to check the facts.

What about Sarah trying to Ban Library books?
and trying to Fire the librarian who refused?

what about her passing that baby around the room and saying "special needs children need special love"....but then we find she cut the budget for special needs children by 62%!!!

how many lies and cynical distortions do you think we can come up with from this one speech?

Dude, to hell with your anti-evolution shtick, we've been reading that from you for nearly a decade, lets talk about your new Gal Sarah!!!

huh?

9/4/2008 8:43:14 PM

SqurlyMurly,

It's not that she attacked Obama, of course she can do that to her heart's content, it's that her rhetoric was filled with ridiculous distortions, like it was written by the same idiots who wrote McCain's attack ads.

Yes the boy who got the girl pregnant is part of it, but his parents aren't running for the 2nd highest office in the land. Palin obviously can't keep much of a handle on her family even as governor of Alaska.

9/4/2008 9:08:06 PM

Dan,

Get a good dose of education. It'll help the "wisdom."

9/5/2008 12:31:44 AM ---- Updated 9/5/2008 12:34:54 AM

Neverneverband dude!

I think she is learning - rapidly - as she goes. Watch out!

9/5/2008 5:01:39 AM ---- Updated 9/5/2008 5:21:28 AM

Well never-band, it's pretty obvious you're just as guilty as Sarah if she in fact did such a thing. There's no real details I can find to support that claim but if it had to do with items children shouldn't be having access too like pornography that I would say Sarah is absolutely right.

You however openly support imposing your factless religion of Evolution on everyone's children in this country which is easily the equivalent of censorship and book-burning. And you have the nerve to point an accusing finger at Sarah Palin?

Tsk, tsk

9/5/2008 10:29:49 AM

Holo, while it is true Ms. Sarah Palin is in the public eye; her daughter is not the one running for office. Do you have kids?

Don't tell me that when your 17 year old daughter is dating, engaged, or whatever; and is alone with her true-love and maybe fooling around a bit that she will definitely not succumb to the desires of the flesh. It happens a hell of a lot more than you might realize and I might add, to the purest of families. Incidents like that have no boundaries according to social status. Get over it!

As far as stabs at Obama, it all depends on what you believe and how you perceive each candidates proposals. That is what makes the world go round and to argue endlessly about it is rather droll. These Pipeline debates do nothing. We should all sit back and watch the candidates debate. After all, it is they who are trying to sway the voters.

I've been away for a while but I see we are still continuing this political jargon. I add my 2 cents worth but from now I think the most I will post on a thread like this will be the following:

McCain/Palin 2008

Have a great day.

9/5/2008 10:32:39 AM

more about Palin info from politico.com

* She's a control freak. "Palin’s management style is to bully and demand political loyalty. Palin’s tenure as mayor of Wasilla was marred by tremendous staff turnover, first when she fired most of the top staff — including the city’s librarian — because she questioned their loyalty, and then later when staff quit because of her micromanaging style. Wasilla even lost the opportunity to hire a police chief because he said the job seemed too political."

* She's a wannabe elite. "Palin Went to See Ivana Trump at Costco, saying Alaska was so desperate for “Any Semblance of Glamour and Culture.” “Sarah Palin, a commercial fisherman from Wasilla, told her husband on Tuesday she was driving to Anchorage to shop at Costco. Instead, she headed straight for Ivana. And there, at J.C. Penney’s cosmetic department, was Ivana, the former Mrs. Donald Trump, sitting at a table next to a photograph of herself. She wore a light-colored pantsuit and pink fingernail polish. Her blonde hair was coiffed in a bouffant French twist. ‘We want to see Ivana,’ said Palin, who admittedly smells like salmon for a large part of the summer, ‘because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture.’" [Anchorage Daily News, 4/3/96]

* She's a headcase. Changed colleges 6 times before getting her degree.

9/5/2008 10:40:13 AM ---- Updated 9/5/2008 1:39:53 PM

I just have to laugh at the first video... the constant cheering for like 2:30 for somebody they don't even really know. These people would cheer anyone... they cheered lame jokes for cryin' out loud! Why? Because there's nothing else being said. What a bunch of ignorant fools.

I bet this bunch would have cheered Michael Vick for VP.


Have a wonderful day!

9/5/2008 11:00:49 AM

No it's not. They don't know her at all. It was silly.

9/5/2008 12:15:49 PM

And if anyone actually believes that she wrote the speech... pahahaha!

9/5/2008 2:25:50 PM

She obviously had alot of input in the speech but very few people cpmpletely write their own.

Over 40,000,000 watched that speech in the USA in the USA alone and over 1/3rd of even liberal Democrats are giving her a favorable rating, as well as over 80% of Republicans. Among undecided voters her ratings are approx. 65% and growing.

McCain picked the right running mate, that's for sure. No question she'll be the first woman predident of the United States.

9/5/2008 2:29:07 PM

McCain/Palin 2008

Palin/?????? 2012

9/5/2008 4:57:08 PM

What? If Palin ever becomes President of the United States, I'm moving to Europe.

9/6/2008 9:35:13 AM

Larree, you cant seriously want that woman as president..

can you?

seriously?

You're losing any credibility you may have ever had here.

9/6/2008 9:43:17 AM ---- Updated 9/6/2008 9:47:42 AM

Can voters this year be sure they learned something about the real Sarah Palin from her GOP vice-presidential nomination acceptance speech Wednesday night, considering news that it was originally written by speechwriter Matthew Scully over a week ago for an unknown male nominee? The commissioned draft was subsequently customized by Palin and a team of McCain staffers in the 48 hours leading up to its presentation.

Click above for source.

9/6/2008 9:50:12 AM

The head of McCain's campaign actually admitted that they won't even let Palin talk to the press if it doesn't suit their purposes. The real Sarah Palin won't even be seen before the Election perhaps.

9/6/2008 9:58:31 AM

Hey Larree it's cool, if you wanna stay here and watch some mindless turd like Sarah Palin fuck society, have at it my friend. I'll be laughing in my stoney bar with Chico.


Good day!

9/6/2008 8:06:05 PM

Europe? Bye-bye. America, Love it or leave it.

9/6/2008 8:11:55 PM

Nah, it's worse than that.

Bye Bye world.

You're on it.

9/6/2008 9:08:31 PM

no no. that's Goodbye Cruel World, i think. Freddie Cannon?? not sure.

9/7/2008 3:01:46 AM

The truth about Sarah Palin. I would not trust her to be in charge of anything, especially where war was involved. At least Dirge will not have to live through it.
DK's mum

The Truth about Sarah Palin

9/7/2008 4:31:09 AM

1) She is presently under investigation in Alaska for abuse of power.

(That would be the investigation she launched herself of herself..)

2) Last year she put out a bounty on wolves paying $150 for turning in legs of freshly killed wolves.

(Is it better to let them kill off all the Caribou & Moose?)

3) She is opposed to abortion even in cases of rape and incest

(Fair criticism but she's entitled to that opinion)

4) She is a champion for big oil and supports drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and everywhere else

(And so is Obama now that polls are showing up to 80% of the public favor environmentally safe drilling.)

5) She believes creationism should be taught in public schools

(Where has she ever stated that?)

6) She believes man-made global warming is a farce

(And she is among good company in that belief)

7) She is opposed to listing the polar bear as an endangered species and is suing the federal government over it

(Maybe she knows more than the Feds do on the subject)

8) While mayor of Wasilla she tried to fire the city librarian because the librarian refused to censor books

(If it's because of the national uproar by concerned parents over what is smut being made accessible to children in libraries across the country I would say she should be commended.)

9) She supports aerial hunting of wolves and bears even though Alaskans voted twice to ban the practice

(She also supports the rights of infant and adult Caribou, Moose, Elk, Deer, ect to be able to live without being killed often for sport by maurauding wolves who in some regions are threatening the very existence of these great animals. So what about them?)

10) She used $400,000 of state money to fund a media campaign in support of aerial hunting

(Sounds OK to me..)

9/7/2008 9:59:06 AM ---- Updated 9/7/2008 10:04:53 AM

5) She believes creationism should be taught in public schools

(Where has she ever stated that?)

From "On the Issues":

Supports teaching intelligent design in public schools

Palin is a conservative Protestant and has also been a member since 2006 of Feminists for Life, an anti-abortion group. She has supported the teaching of intelligent design in public schools, alongside evolution. She is a member of the National Rifle Association, and has said Alaska's economic future depends on aggressively extracting its vast natural resources, from oil to natural gas and minerals.

Source: New York Times, pp. A1 & A10, "An Outsider Who Charms" Aug 29, 2008


In her own words: I believe we have a creator; and many theories of evolution

Palin said she thought there was value in discussing alternatives. "It's OK to let kids know that there are theories out there," she said in an interview following the debate. "They gain information just by being in a discussion."
That was how she was brought up, she said. Her father was a public school science teacher. "My dad did talk a lot about his theories of evolution," she said. "He would show us fossils and say, 'How old do you think these are?' "
Asked for her personal views on evolution, Palin said, "I believe we have a creator." She would not say whether her belief also allowed her to accept the theory of evolution as fact. "I'm not going to pretend I know how all this came to be," she said.
Knowles was asked Thursday if he believed in a creator and, if so, how he reconciled that with evolution. A campaign spokeswoman responded, "Tony wants to stick by what he said last night creationism has no place in public school classrooms as an 'alternative' to evolution."

Source: Alaska 2006 Governor Debate: Anchorage Daily News follow-up Oct 27, 2006

9/7/2008 10:16:08 AM

Supporting her aerial hunting practices by saying she's helping other animals is a double standard. You don't want caribou, moose, elk or deer to be killed naturally by a natural predator, but hey let's hunt down and brutally kill wolves, that's OK. Please. You really thinks it's OK she used almost have a million dollars to fund a campaign to murder wildlife? What's wrong with you? Think of how much GOOD she could have done with that, how many people she could have helped.

And anybody who thinks that drilling in more places for more oil is going to solve anything is an idiot. There's only so much oil, and it'll be gone soon. Finding alternate energy sources NOW is the only way we're going to get ahead on that issue. Why wait until there's no more oil and the country is in dire straits before we move to solve the problem? By then it will be too late. That's ignorant, which also explains why she doesn't believe in global warming. What a moron.

If some people don't wake up and realize the real issues we as a WORLD are facing, we're doomed. If McCaain and Palin end up in the White House, I'd really hate to see the state of our nation by 2012... things will only continue to go downhill. Besides in that year, there will be some much larger things happening globally than your silly little politcal shenanigans. Ever heard of the Rising of the Seas? Mayan Calendar? Check it out. Hopefully we wake up before it's too late but I doubt it. But then again, you don't think there's anything wrong, so save yourself the hassle I suppose. It's all good, let's just keep doing what we're doing and everything will be just peachy. What could ever happen?

Obama was right, "They must think you're stupid."

Of course, you're blind following proves you are. I wish you and your compadres the best of luck. We ALL are gonna need it.

9/7/2008 10:44:53 AM

I'm not saying it's going to be the end of the world and neither were the Mayans. Just a large significant change. It's the end of a solar cycle.

Clinton wasn't that bad was he?

9/7/2008 10:45:06 AM

Re : Wolf hunting

During winter, the wolf families of this region eat a significant meal of moose, mountain sheep, or caribou on average once every 2.0-2.6 days.1 They obtain these meals while hunting over distances averaging 10.1-17.8 miles per day, including periods of rest. About half their meals come from kills, and 2.0-8.9% of their winter encounters with moose result in kills. The other 47-48% of their winter meals are scavenged (animals that died from other causes); 60-77% of the moose they eat are scavenged. They dig many of the scavenged meals from beneath the snow - from as deep as 8-10 feet into densely packed drifts and avalanches - and must expend additional effort gnawing into the frozen remains.  
 
So a good meal is usually a hard-earned, happy event.

9/7/2008 11:45:40 AM

9/7/2008 1:22:17 PM

http://www.mtmultipleuse.org/endangered/wolf_pics.htm

"Environmentalists and animal lovers claim that wolves only kill the old and infirm. They claim that they kill only what they need for survival. These pictures put the lie to those claims.

These same folks claim that wolves never attack humans. That too is a lie. Wikipedia lists dozens of fatal wolf attacks including the killing in 2005 in Canada of a 22 year old man. There are many more non-fatal attacks because for every human killed by a wolf at least ten survive to tell their story.

"Carnegie had gone for a walk and didn’t return to the surveyors' camp where he was working. His body was found to be partially consumed in an area known to be frequented by four wolves which regularly fed on human refuse. The pathologist who performed the autopsy, testified Carnegie had lost about 25% to 30% of his body mass in the attack, with the top midsection to the thigh being partially consumed."

"n British Columbia, five packs of wolves have become such a problem for a small caribou herd that the government was planning to kill 25 to 35 of them and sterilize eight others. Elsewhere in British Columbia, near the Idaho border crossing, a pack estimated at 25 to 35 wolves killed 25 head of cattle last year in an 80-square-mile area. Canadian conservation officers also have noticed a marked decline in elk, moose, deer and other big-game animals."

"The truth is wolves are killing machines, they are the ultimate predator in North America. They are not even surpassed by the grizzly bear. Do the research! You will find wolves are not conservationists, they are known to kill everything in the ecosystem starting with prey first, then other predators, then start killing each other because they are cannibals.

You want to discuss cattle not being killed in a humane way, in comparison to wolves there is none. Wolves are addictive "Sport Killers" this takes place during the winter in heavy snow, the deeper snow the more "Sport Killing" deer and elk carcasses literally slaughtered for miles on snow-covered logging roads, (two dead elk approximately 150 feet apart), only hind quarters ripped out not eating any of their prey, the carcass left to rot for scavengers, and in many cases the animals are left standing alive bleeding a torturous death in the snow for several days with only hindquarters torn out. It is a very slow and excruciating painful death. This happens routinely while teaching young pup wolves how to hunt."

"

Jackson Hole, WY March 19, 2002

Wyoming Citizens,

My wife and I went snow machining up the Gros Ventre last Friday March 15. Saw 4 wolves run across the road in front of us just east of the Red Rock ranch. Stopped and talked to two volunteers from federal fish and wildlife service, one from Maine and one from North Dakota. Noticed elk tracks everywhere. ( very unusual) Asked how many wolves were here? "About 13" How many elk are they killing? "Three or more a night" (not counting pregnant cows aborting because of being run and stressed.)

Continued up the road, appalled by the amount of running elk tracks everywhere. (They have been conditioned for years to stay on the feed grounds) Stopped at the Goose Wing feed grounds. Pile of about 20 to 30 dead elk (cows and calves) by the road pulled there by elk feeders. Some had small amounts of flesh eaten (10 to 15) pounds from hind quarters, left to die. Others caught by nose. Nose, lips and tongue eaten off and left to die. Wounded and stressed elk laying away from herd, unable to get up. (4 or more)

Threw up---went home---haven't slept since.

Folks, night after night Canadian wolves are killing (not eating) your local elk herds. Don't let the elk go the way of the American Bison!!! Stop the carnage before it's to late! It's worse than you have been led to believe.

Jerry Wilson
Born here 1938

9/7/2008 1:31:33 PM ---- Updated 9/7/2008 1:33:34 PM

And then there's this counterpoint:

We value wolves. We value wolves in the west because we know that they play a critical role in bringing back balance to western watersheds and plant and wildlife communities on public land. We have compassion for their individual characteristics and the highly developed familial social structures so critical to their contribution to these natural communities. We value our individual and unique experiences of wolves in the wild and hope to maintain that gift for generations to come. If you value wolves for any reason, you are a member of a very large community of people. Despite most people wanting wolves on our public land, this aspiration continues to be among the most controversial environmental issues in the West. Their reintroduction after decades of persectution and extirpation has spurred much heated debate between wolf enthusiasts and those who continue to maintain that wolves have little to no place on public land.

Despite recovery efforts demonstrating the minimal negative impacts to livestock and big game hunting opportunities over the last decade and the good-faith efforts of wolf advocates to respond to financial concerns, little has changed to curb intolerance for wolves. Right now, those adversarial to wolves' persistance on our public land have the local and national politicians - and they're using them to drastically reduce protections for wolves on public land.

Source: Western Watershed Project

9/7/2008 2:16:48 PM

"Carnegie had gone for a walk and didn’t return to the surveyors' camp where he was working. His body was found to be partially consumed in an area known to be frequented by four wolves which regularly fed on human refuse. The pathologist who performed the autopsy, testified Carnegie had lost about 25% to 30% of his body mass in the attack, with the top midsection to the thigh being partially consumed."

I watched a programme about a detailed analysis of this case and the conclusion was that it was very unlikely that he was killed by a wolf and that they only arrived on the scene later. If wild animals such as tigers; elephants wolves etc do attack man it is only because the natural habitat has been so interfered with by man that it leaves the animals no alternative.

9/7/2008 3:07:04 PM

Too many people = not enough space for our wild creatures.

The logical conclusion is rather to teach birth control in schools, and not to destroy our wild creatures.

9/7/2008 4:35:45 PM

Back in the day the Natives kept the wolves in check cause they were competing for the same food source and I won't tell you how they did it..

I agree they are a beautiful animals, I'd love to have a domesticated one myself. But in the wild.., Up to 80% of the Elk calves are killed by them in Yellowstone and the herd will not survive if man does not intervene and that's a cold hard fact. And it doesn't please anymore than it does you.

9/7/2008 5:24:10 PM

Back in the day Natives also scalped people and smoked Peyote, haha. Maybe we should just kill everything that preys on others? We should definitely be killing each other then... or wait, we're steadfast at that. OK nevermind.

:P

9/7/2008 7:17:34 PM

Do you no what i think that all politians have egos as big as a gorillas ass.... and thats not in the mist . I watch your poitics going on and it is a big show . Here in new zealnad it is the same . Our elections are coming up and they are acting like kids in kindergarten.. its all a game and us citizens bare the brunt of there egos and games... give us somthing interesting to fight over

9/7/2008 7:37:05 PM

""Back in the day the Natives kept the wolves in check cause they were competing for the same food source and I won't tell you how they did it.."""

thats so much nonsense "Dan", you just pull stuff like this out of the air.

There is no credible account of this anywhere, and we're in my field of study here, you just make this shit up when your arguments start to seem weak....
man,,,

still salt baiting for Bucks up there at your place?

dick...

9/8/2008 12:31:17 AM

Bad news never band..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_hunting

"In the majority of the hunter-gatherer societies of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas, wolves were usually only killed for body parts used in rituals, or to stop them raiding food caches or horses,[26] though some tribes would raid wolf dens for pups, which were considered a delicacy."

http://wolfcrossing.org/2007/03/19/elk-sport-killed-by-wolves-hunters-and-game-lovers-special-report/

"It is a lie that the wolves balance nature. Read the old Native American writing and I find they hunted, trapped, and denned wolves. Yes Denned wolves killing the pups."

There's more but this is all all old news.

9/8/2008 12:55:19 AM

bad news? that's exactly what I'm saying..
The idea that Natives culled wolves because they were in competition for resources is nonsense..

sure they killed wolves and any other apex predator they respected and used it's parts for talismans and medicine..
but they didn't seek to diminish the species due to competition for resources.
That's just something that was made up on this thread to make Culling sound sexy.

The natives here had domesticated Dogs when the Spanish arrived, Coronado accounts that they were using them by the hundreds to move camp by attaching Travois to them.
We're talking about a relationship with native canine species that goes back 25,000 years here and with the possible exception of some bird species is this continents first incidence of animal husbandry.

9/8/2008 8:02:12 AM

I grew up with a few full-blooded Indians never band and they did keep wolf numbers in check to insure their own survivability and general safety.

And how did they control the Wolves? By killing the pups, that's how they did it.

They're animals and they multiply geometrically and that will never change despite all the fairy tales people want to believe about them. So despite what seems to be such horrible cruelty if steps are taken to protect the Elk, Moose, Deer and other wildlife that are being ravaged by these maurauding packs, nature will deal them a far crueler hand if it isn't done and again, I don't like that anymore than the next person.

9/8/2008 12:00:16 PM

Dan, just because you go to the supermarket and buy your meat neatly packaged off the shelf and don't actually go out and kill the animal yourself, do you think that makes you better than a wolf that has to eat to survive. Man raises many animals just for slaughter which is not always very humane when he doesn't even have to eat meat.
All big cats are predators, do you think they should all be hunted as well ? Any woman who can enjoy sitting in her lounge surrounded by dead stuffed animals must have something wrong with her. She says she is a pit bull, I expect she also supports dog fighting. Perhaps you should take a listen to some of Maria Daines songs e.g.
I Don't Want To Fight No More

DK's Mum

9/8/2008 1:23:28 PM

I've harvested plenty of deer in my time and that only started when the mother of 4 children was killed when one crashed through her windshield. And I can assure you a well placed arrow that ends a deers time here in less than a minuted is far more humane than being ripped to pieced by a pack of wolves.

There's certain parts of this country they are out of control and the very existence of regional herds of elk, ect are at stake so I trust that officials are making the right decisions in these matters. I'm glad I don't have to make them..

9/9/2008 3:18:50 PM

I don't care for her views at all....and I saw a picture of her standing over a beautiful animal with antlers that she shot...I don't have anything against hunting really...but the only hunting I could do would be to photograph these magnificent creatures...to see this animal suffering in its blood made me shiver. I read that she ordered the execution of wolves...seems cruel...I read that she is against abortion even in the case of incest and rape...that's pretty hard for a woman to take especially if you don't share the religious views...when I grew up I read about young woman desperately using coat hangers and dying from infections...you know I really believe in the separation of church and state....I look at the Middle East and what goes on there and it makes me glad I live in America; however I feel threatened by folks who would want to institutionalize their religion in law the way it is often done in the Middle East. Freedom, freedom of thought and belief, really is too important and is what this country was found on. Ban books in the library? That is really scary stuff. Believe what you want, but don't force your beliefs on others.

9/9/2008 8:01:23 PM

This salt-baiter is trying to ruin my good name. He is a master at it.

Get it, yuk, yuk?

9/9/2008 8:04:26 PM

Well-said, Beth.

9/9/2008 10:59:45 PM

Oh no they don't want birth control they want abstinence or more babies.

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