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Tom O'Brien
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9/17/2010 6:50:12 PM
Anyone familiar with ACM Records?
They've asked to exclusively represent 10 of my songs. I'm encouraged - after all, they must think they can make money off of me or they wouldn't be interested, right? But that word, "exclusive" is kind of a scary one. Suppose they just take my songs and stuff them in a vault and forget about them?
Also, I've never heard of them or any of the many artists they represent, but they've been around for 20 years.
What do you think? Should I take a chance?
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The Man With No Band
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9/17/2010 6:59:53 PM
All I can say is BE CAREFUL Tom ... and have a Lawyer look over the fine print for you ...
ACM could be up and up ..... or they could be ACME ... ya know, Wile E. Coyote's label ...
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Bryon Tosoff
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9/17/2010 9:48:44 PM
---- Updated 9/17/2010 10:03:57 PM
Tom, First off, they use a p o box #, that is a red flag right there, although it is perhaps one way to direct a multitude of cds that come their way, but my concern is they should have a legitimate mailing address
secondly I dont see any contact phone numbers, thats two red flags.like its nice to talk to someone by phone......perhaps they will do that, and provide a contact number eventually...
I have seen this type of company use these tactics before , and artists who got involved usually end up signing a contract, and more then likely pay something out of pocket.......
rarely in this day and age is a label, record company gonna underwrite a unknown undiscovered artist
how it works in this day and age is you have to prove yourself first, funding and underwriting your own projects and have some kind of track record, airplay
do they have a promoter in their midst. that pitches music to radio.
a lot of labels gave up on that years ago, and subcontract or use indie promoters and companies such as Bryan Farrish radio promoters or similar agencies
I would be really be careful on this company, and get advice as Sam suggested
but then again, you never know, but my opinion is just that. I dont trust most of these cats as far as I could throw them. which I have
I would get major assistance in your concern on exclusivity in the contract you have received
read up here
exclusive record contract
definitely important to get an entertainment lawyer involved once you move forward, perhaps they are all above board, but for me, gather up as much ammo as possible and arm your self well , if you catch my drift......
sussed this out
I think this is the companies contact info
http://www.macraesbluebook.com/search/company.cfm?company=1457630
12 Ramapo Ter
Fair Lawn, NJ,
07410-3313
Phone: 201-796-0848
good luck Tom. and if it is legit,,,
bryon
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Susan Raven
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9/18/2010 1:17:38 AM
Before you go any further, talk to as many of the ortists already on the label as you can. You should be able to contact them using google to find their own web sites - don't go through their acm pages, you want their honest answers.
And good luck.
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Richard Scotti
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9/18/2010 8:56:07 AM
---- Updated 9/18/2010 8:24:01 PM
I agree that with all that my colleagues have said on this matter. Get a lawyer and find out of the company is legit. If it is for real, you'd be crazy not to enter into some kind of deal negotiated through your lawyer. As long as it is not one of those "pay to play" scams, take the money and run! Usually, record companies want to sign acts that are already making professional sounding demos.
As far as production, your songs are diamonds in the rough and you are very fortunate that you being offered a deal with demos like that. Most A&R people cannot see a good song through a less than stellar production but apparently they have people who can do that. If your lawyer tells you to sign on the bottom line, you have nothing to fear but fear itself. Take from me, Tom, I've turned down deals because of being overly cautious and I didn't use a lawyer. Now I'm more educated about the business and have a lawyer but no deals are in sight.
The economy is tanking, record stores are all closing and the music business is in terrible shape. If a reputable company is offering you a deal with a cash advance on the basis of some very rough demos (and during a recession/depression) you should take the risk of signing with them. But only if a qualified entertainment lawyer does a thorough check on the company and reads ALL the fine print. Over the years contacts have changed dramatically. They seem more flexible now and if you are unhappy with the company after signing, your lawyer can always get you out of it. If your songs make them and you money, everybody wins. If your songs don't work out, what motive would they have in putting your songs in a closet? What motive would they have in sabotaging your career? All deals are somewhat "exclusive". That's the nature of a deal. If you have something that will make them money, why would they they share you with other companies? "Exclusive" is just a word and words in contracts were meant to be interpreted and defined by lawyers.
I once turned down a deal because the company wanted to own all my existing songs and all songs that I would write in "perpetuity". That word freaked me out. Now I realize there is no such thing as perpetuity!" Congrats, Tom. You are very hard working and prolific. You deserve to get paid for what you do. You are still evolving as a songwriter and your some of your songs need tightening up. If someone is willing to foot the bill for your development, go for it, Just get a good lawyer to protect you. Good luck! Deals don't come a knockin' everyday,
Seize the moment, if you can.
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Bryon Tosoff
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9/18/2010 9:13:34 AM
read up
How a Label works and its organization
with 2 people and no administration of any sort at ACM I dont see this as a bona-fide (sp) Label. but then again.
I like what Susan Raven suggested....good one there.followup like she said , her idea is a good one
good luck
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Stoneman
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9/18/2010 10:23:38 AM
Great advise by everyone here. I have never heard of these folks and that alone gives me reason to say "pause" and dig deeper into their track record. Another is the amount of artists on their roster. This would indicate to me that they have an alternative motive as no indie would have so many artists unless they had a huge staff to handle all that goes into breaking artists. Plus, I have never heard of any of their artists. Most successful indies have at least a few successful indie artists that bring in $ used to promote up and coming acts. None of these folks appear to fit into that category.
In regards to exclusivity, the key here would be "time frame" or how long they want the songs to be exclusively contracted. I would suggest no more than one year. At least then you would have time to gauge how well you have been treated by them and whether you want to continue a business relationship. I have signed a few (one song) exclusive contracts in my time but my legal counsel always advised no more than a year at a time.
Other areas of concern would be their distribution channels (domestic & Int'l/ physical & digital)
Publishing track record and affiliates/sister companies (co-publishers)
charting success (or lack thereof)
The best advise given in this thread was to talk to some of their artists. That way you can get a reliable gauge on how they operate. Also, seek legal counsel before signing anything.
Best Of Luck To You!
Stoneman
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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9/18/2010 5:31:52 PM
Firstly congrats
all good advice
this one is the key for me from Bryon (and others)
---and more then likely pay something out of pocket.......
ie. do they want money from you up front?
alarm bells ring!
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Richard Scotti
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9/18/2010 8:25:51 PM
Tom ~ if they ask you for money, it's a scam, period.
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Tom O'Brien
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9/19/2010 12:50:33 PM
Thanks for the advice everybody. I am playing it cautiously and am certainly not about to pay money to anyone who sounds too good to be true.
I have sent emails to a number of their artists, but I have yet to hear back from anyone. I think that that is the true test - how do they treat their artists? If any of them have bad experiences to relate, that would certainly put me off.
I've got some other feelers out, too. Pumpaudio has accepted my "audition" and I've sent them two CDs so far.
Richard, I appreciate your candor. I think I'm a much better songwriter than I am a producer. If I ever get back in a real studio, maybe the songwriting chops will really shine. That's how I'd ultimately like to be remembered in music, not as a rock star, not as a techno-wizard - just as a solid songwriter.
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Richard Scotti
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9/20/2010 8:32:04 AM
Tom ~ You have very good production ideas for your songs. I'm sure if you had access to a pro studio and pro musicians, you could produce or co-produce your songs very well. You have solid visions of what your songs should sound like. Turning visions into reality usually requires a budget that most of us don't have.
That's why record companies can help sometimes. As far as trying to contact the artists on the label ~ well it sounds like a good idea but I doubt that any artist on the label is going to be totally candid with you about any bad experiences they have had with the company. They wouldn't want to jeopardize their own positions there. They may also be pledged to confidentiality about the inner workings of the label. Finding out if this place is truly legit is going to take a lot more digging than trying to talk to the artists. Good luck and let us know what happens.
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Tom O'Brien
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9/20/2010 10:27:25 AM
Well, I did hear back from two ACM connected artists, both of whom had nothing good to say about them. One went so far as to say it was a mistake to get involved and that they have made $0 with them after two albums. I thank them for their honesty.
So, I guess the search goes on. It would be every songwriter's dream to make a living just from writing songs, but it doesn't happen very often. If I can make a few bucks through licensing, I'll be pretty happy.
Just knowing there are listeners at IAC makes me pretty happy, too!: )
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Michael J. Nielsen
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9/20/2010 4:31:25 PM
The best advice I can give you is do it all Yourself. Master the songs yourself and print up your own C.D.'s A good label to work with is Castle Records here in Nashville. I can get you contact info if you want. Ed Russell. Send him a guitar vocal and he'll produce a good full production session for you. Mine were done at $600.00 a pop then I remaster mastered them at my studio. He'll do a full session with hired vocals or just mixed tracks and then you can perform them out Karaoke style. Then sell them at Gigs. As for distribution, If you have good quality Final products, Put them on Mp3's or just burn them to disk. Get an account with cdbaby. I've been there five years and now have both my albums at ITunes, Rhapsody and a few other streaming and and download sites. Hope this helps. All Best . Michael
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Chandra Moon
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9/23/2010 9:41:57 AM
I did my first album independently using a really good producer/musician and roped in various musicians for different tracks. I got it mastered somewhere separate which is always a good idea and I did the launch myself which was a brilliant success - I've sold a few hundred albums steadily online through CD baby (with a barcode etc), Spotify, iTunes and downloads and at gigs. I'll never make a living but it's covered the cost of producing the album so sales now are small profit.
I made the mistake once of sending some money to some "white label" to put one track on but changed my mind and lost the money (£100 deposit) what a waste.
Personally I wouldn't want a deal - I like the freedom to do what I like with my music and when I do sell albums I don't only get a percentage. However, studio and producer time is expensive..........
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Diego B
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9/24/2010 12:56:20 AM
Years ago, I signed a 3 years lasting deal with ACM...they wanted 500 Dollar, I payed. After 3 years, the contract ended, never heard something from ACM, never received any money. They told me, my songs are in the database of some US-TV Shows...The database must stand in a deep cellar...LOL Tom, here's my advice: If they want money, don't sign.
Diego
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Tom O'Brien
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9/24/2010 4:26:59 PM
Thanks for the straight scoop, Diego. Yes, I just got an email from them saying that they needed $1000 for "legal fees" but since I was a teacher they would cut it in half. How thoughtful of them.
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Bryon Tosoff
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9/24/2010 9:56:35 PM
I sniffed that one out right from the start Tom, there are so many of this scamsters ripping off musicians like you and I and Diego, doing what, taking your money and promising something but never delivering,, that is one of the blogs I was going to bring up, so you have done it for us.....good you did your homework, a warning to aspiring artists , few are really advocates and care about you, all theyare in it is for themselves and making their bucks off the backs of musicians who can barely afford that 1000 or 500 bucks, unscrupulous rip off artists, snakes , any more description and I will get crass
bryon
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