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Father Time
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10/11/2015 6:17:58 PM
Belief in one's own music - a large segment of music society regards this as almost criminal
Something I notice more and more is the hugely negative reaction towards artists who dare believe in themselves. This is something that really wasn't a factor til the internet. Now there's this unwritten rule that you better be totally humble or you deserve to be lynched if you say your song is gonna be good or what have you.
All my heroes were cocky. Lennon, Page, Townshend, Chuck Berry. I like it when artists feel good about their latest song or project. When did the worm turn, I wonder?
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Bryon Tosoff
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10/11/2015 9:02:24 PM
Well one better believe in themselves, and get behind their songs project what have you, and build a fanbase, and advocates who also believe in what one is doing. that is key , one has to have a positive outlook and go for it.
One thing though that i cant stand is the pre release BS and hype some artists do prior to their release and do all this facebook hype, twitter tweets saying this is what we are doing now,we are laying these tracks down, here is the part of the song we are doing today. hype hype hype. waste of time. now you may want to do a anthology of the process and have it as a part of how the project fell into place, but do it later, i dont care for all this hype and crap
release it when it is actually gonna go out, not all this hey man, look what i am doing, forget all that shite. focus on finishing it, i have seen this hype and sometimes these people dont get the ob done. and then there is egg all over their face. you say, how is that project you are doing, ah, ran out of money, band broke up, not sure how to get it out there, do your homework and research , count the costs, shut your mouth and just do your thing and then maybe get it happening, but not all this blowhard hype shit. to me, it is a waste of energy.
If it goes, good if not then good. but dont say how great it is going to be before you even start it or are half way through it, one may not even finish it. or it may take longer then expected, hype hype is bull roar
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Noah Spaceship
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10/12/2015 12:02:51 AM
I think it's always been that way.
Fuck those haters, Scott.
I'm glad they don't keep you down.
You've been cat and mouse with those douchebags for as long as I've known you.
It's always the same thing too, they can't stand anyone tooting their own horn.
I admire the shit out of you for it.
It actually makes me want to be your fan.
(Which I am)
Seriously, dude.
Fuck those guys.
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Noah Spaceship
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10/12/2015 12:05:24 AM
I am totally guilty of what Bryon is talking about, btw.
I'm kind of ashamed.
Haha.
I'll get over it.
:)
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Bryon Tosoff
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10/12/2015 5:11:46 AM
Fred, to each their own, I dont think you do what I made reference to,. I mean those who dump shite about their musics development incessantly, on facebook, twitter. whatever, This tracking is happening today, now we are doing this, listen to this guys guitar. like shut up already and just do it, release it when it is finished, now the occasional update is fine. but not a daily barrage of what is happening day to day.
You dont do a daily dump of crap about ones particular project undertaking. Make a anthology during the course of what is happening, maybe have a monthly update. but not an pile of BS of who cares
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Hop On Pop
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10/12/2015 5:41:20 AM
I don't think it's that an artist "believes in their own music" that I find a turnoff, it's when they go on and on about how great they are. Think about Oasis for a minute. Those guys would shout to anybody who would listen about how they were the greatest band on the planet. Fortunately for them, they had the songs to back up at least SOME of that braggadocio. At least for a little while.
Ego is a turnoff. No matter who you are.
No matter what you're bragging about.
But, if you have the songs to back it up, I think that folks will forgive you. If, in fact, they like what you have to offer.
Remember, taste is subjective and, if folks don't like your latest "masterpiece" you can't fault them for that, either.
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10/12/2015 6:44:41 AM
I don't subscribe to extremism ever, so I don't see why artists refusing to blow a big heralding trumpet have to be "totally humble" What's wrong with just saying "I'm pleased with this because...." and then give specific reasons rather than un-quantifiable generalizations ...
If you take the high ground you risk abuse, gossip or laughter, the only positive would be the followers who enjoy living vicariously through your bravado.
If you take the middle ground you're less likely to offend anyone and more likely to interest listeners from both sides. But moderation is not exciting. it's just safe
Take the modest approach and you'll always find someone who want's to persuade you to have more faith in yourself, you'll make friends but as for finding a benefactor who believes in you... well that scenario belongs to another era when the world wasn't bulging at the seams with good artists.
It is possible to believe in yourself and still be average or inferior and it is possible to have doubts and be modest about yourself and still be amazing.
For every beautiful person who thinks they're ugly there will be 10 ugly people who think they are beautiful.
In summary I'd say...
"... back up the boasts with anecdotal evidence from respected sources and maintain a quiet confidence, be persuasive but not pushy"
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Hop On Pop
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10/12/2015 7:05:17 AM
Dig.
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Bryon Tosoff
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10/12/2015 7:42:30 AM
Erica really provided some insightful and worthwhile solid pointers, very balanced
Great thoughts there. and your music is very cool too. tasteful
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10/12/2015 8:53:20 AM
Appreciate your support Hop on Pop and Bryon. I think about these things greatly but there is no 'one size fits all' answer. My advice (unsolicited but well meant) would be :-
Evaluate audience reaction constantly during a campaign.
Always consider the consequences of what one says or does.
Be thankful for people who agree with you and feel sorry for people who don't [joking]
It's not rocket science, just common sense I suppose.
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Father Time
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10/12/2015 11:03:34 AM
I personally don't mind even outrageous bragging. I think the word ego has negative connotations but it shouldn't. It's ego that even gets our music online to begin with.
If somebody says they are the next supergroup, you listen and if they aren't, it's a wrap. What's the harm? If you listen a second time, maybe they actually are pretty good and you shouldn't hold their outspokenness against them.
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Hop On Pop
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10/12/2015 11:14:10 AM
---- Updated 10/12/2015 11:15:31 AM
Ego in and of itself is no problem. We all have them. But, music aside, an inflated ego and braggadocio is a turnoff to most people and is actually counterproductive in many ways. It could actually prevent folks from even listening to your music in the first place.
Now, as an artist whom is nearly entirely unknown, I suppose that I am in no position to talk about getting heard. But, it's a setup for disappointment. And, if you are telling the world that you are the greatest, you had damn well better be able to back it up.
It's one thing if you are Muhammad Ali, and are knocking out every opponent you face. Then, you might have a legitimate claim to the mantle. But,any artistic pursuit is wholly subjective, so a term like "the greatest" has no merit whatsoever. And, I guess that is my biggest problem with this kind of posing and posturing.
Also, 9 times out of 10, the braggart never even comes close to being as good as they say they are.
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Father Time
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10/12/2015 11:16:20 AM
Well that's just it, it's subjective anyway. Anybody is entitled to think they're the greatest and sometimes those saying it are just being honest.
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Frylock
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10/12/2015 11:16:28 AM
@FT
So, applying that to the world in general, you're a fan of Donald Trump, not necessarily his politics, but rather, his style?
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Hop On Pop
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10/12/2015 11:16:30 AM
Hell, I believe that I write some pretty damn good songs. But I am well-aware that it's not everybody's bag o' weed.
Or, even if it is, they may just not like my tone, partner.
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Father Time
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10/12/2015 11:18:49 AM
I find Trump far less boring than his peers. I think he's a bit of a joke of course, but I'd take him any day in a second over Ben Carson, Jeb Bush, or Chris Christie.
Luckily I don't have to take any of them. :)
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Frylock
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10/12/2015 11:24:19 AM
I'm in the tank for Bernie.
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Father Time
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10/12/2015 11:33:32 AM
I'd be cool with Bernie, Hillary, or Biden in that order.
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Bryon Tosoff
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10/12/2015 11:37:39 AM
---- Updated 10/12/2015 11:38:05 AM
When I was a little kid, my mom said we all have ego in us, I thought she said eagle, and asked why do we have an eagle in us. I didnt get it even when she explained it, i was confused couldnt grasp the idea or concept, but eagle was what i did understand, they flew in the air, were majestic creatures and had such a commanding presence , then as i grew older in my childhood i thought well maybe eagle and ego are the same in a way, strong fearless and powerful.
just a thought
Maybe I still dont get it, nothing wrong with feeling good about ones self, that is critical and important, i think if someone or a band is good they dont have to boast about it, it is pretty evident when they walk on stage and they down their chops, then you go, wow, i have come across a lot of bands in my years of being in the promo business and some have that air of confidence and self assured in the way they carry them selves and others have an air of arrogance and almost a dismissive attitude. I have dealt with all kinds. So i think I can speak with authority on this subject. lets say this, if you have it, have an ego, nothing wrong with that, we need to have confidence in what we do, and how do we get there, by working our asses off and becoming competent and expert at what we do, then we can exude confidence. cause we know we have it. but to boast about it and then not deliver the goods, then that is ignorance and stupidity. I could bring up a number of incidences of people and bands and such that i have dealt with,.and go deep in to the whole experience of my dealings, no point, past experience, not worth my time . , I am sure you all have gone through the same thing with those who thought they were the shit, but in reality, were really bad shit,... so may your eagle be with you. and guide you along the way to stardom
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10/12/2015 11:38:15 AM
---- Updated 10/12/2015 11:41:27 AM
You know, Scott.
I hope that Bucket o' Fries is in fact not also you,
because, the thought is kinda sad.
"I'm Lonely."
"I know, I'll turn into a Bucket o' Fries and befriend myself"
Minutes later, standing an empty french fry bucket,
"where'd you go? Speak to me!! I didn't mean to eat you all up!! Oh No..."
I'm sorry.
Maybe it's not you, it probably is though,
you do have the man of a thousand faces thing going on,
but you're Father Time and may run a Clock Store...
Okay.
I understand this phenomenon.
First, the internet made it possible for a 'hit and run' sort
of social interaction... it's how we got the phrase 'cyber bullying'.
And the answer is, once more, the gift that keeps on giving:
"No, Fuck YOU."
See, it is mediocrity at the heart of this lame-ass phenomenon.
You don't wanna be incredible? Amazing? Phenomenal?
Guess What. You don't have to be.
But this business of the mediocre trying to talk down the excellent,
is nothing new. And yes, Scott raises a point.
When you say it of yourself, usually people do not react favorably.
See, I could do that. Say I'm the best thing since Pizza.
But besides the fact that I am, it doesn't matter.
Everybody likes what they like. Maybe I'll one day find myself in 'fashion'
or whatnot. Or maybe not. For me though, I made myself
into The Artist I Want To Be.
I do it for Artistic Reasons. Yeah I wanna be rich as fuck with a beanie
propeller hat on, absolutely. But I wanna just find myself that,
out of the process of boldly being myself, as an Artist.
So yeah, It's Okay To Say You're All That And A Bag Of Chips.
I'm that, and saying it's okay for me to say it,
and for you all to say it too.... as much as you want.
But more important than saying it,
I think,
is being it.
And that, being it, well it's a matter of,
if you, or me, or anyone, ever DOES get it REALLY RIGHT,
the whole world will go "OH SHIT. YEAH. THAT. Do THAT AGAIN."
It's happened a couple times.
I keep tryin'.
And that's all anyone can do.
No one gives you permission to be Great.
If you're lucky, you get someone, anyone,
who actually encourages you to be. As Lesley Gore personally did with me.
Thank you Lesley Gore.
God Bless You In Heaven, Q.
(her nickname; I knew her, Horatio)
That's about it. Oh, Einstein said:
"great thinkers have always come up against opposition
from mediocre minds". Einstein said that. Get it?
Did that stop Einstein?
No.
If you're that damned good, then you must withstand,
you must endure, and you must ignore the idiots telling you
that you can't do it.
And if you realize it's better to just BE Great
more than tell everyone you are,
well that's probably good too.
I realized that. I try to shut up now. This is me, shutting up now. ~Lesley
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Father Time
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10/12/2015 11:52:37 AM
Lesley,
Frylock is absolutely not me and neither are most of the people you imagine to be me. There's this guy named Lyin Dan, watch out for him.
I hate the unwritten rule that internet artists need to be humble. It has brought me so much abuse over the years. but I'm irrepressible (incorrigible too), so I keep flyin' my freak flag ya know.
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10/12/2015 12:15:08 PM
Some people are so into their own thing they don't recognize, want or accept fact, common sense, advice, reason, humor or a good counter argument, nothing moves the immovable.
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10/12/2015 12:28:24 PM
Really Scott?
For real.
You're telling me you are NOT the talking French Fries.
Boy now I REALLY feel sorry for that guy.
"I can't be me. It's too painful. I know, I'll be a bucket
of talking supersized fries! Why didn't I think of THAT before?"
It was almost acceptable 'cause it was like
"Oh well, he runs the world's coolest indie site, period,
that's bound to cause some stress he has to get rid of
in creative ways, I get it..."
But they're not you, the fries, huh.
Poor bastard. No, whoever that is.
The thing about Artists, is that they are Artists in the first place,
generally because they're more sensitive than 'all the sane people'...
(boy do I say that one tongue in cheek)
but the problem with that sensitivity,
is forgetting every other artist is also like that.
Maybe many if not most if not all artists wanna think they're all that.
Maybe some even wanna say it.
I've said it of myself, completely thinking it to be true.
But again, in the end, it's more about do it than talk about it.
Also,
the thing with being humble...
one can be humble to a fellow artist,
so as not to let form the impression of a person who thinks
they are simply better than everybody else...
because we all are precious special wonderful and horrible
and all want our own Flying Sub.
What, that's just me?
Well we all want to be acknowledged or something....
My apologies, the french fries whoever they are pointed out
I'm a longwinded asshole, and I guess the greasy snack has a point.
So Lyin' Dan is the guy who's all these inane profiles?
There's a few of 'em..
Okay but he'll say it's you, I already know how sit coms work.
So, it's okay, to be okay to say you think you're great at
what you do... but remember, there's a room full of people
who think they're great at what they do.
Even if they don't do it a whole lot..
I still think prove it, is the bottom line. Even for the Great And Powerful Me.
~L
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Father Time
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10/12/2015 12:28:41 PM
Everybody's Into Their Own Thing some wise sage once said.
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10/12/2015 12:32:23 PM
I'm guessing that's a Father Time song.
Only I know you know how to make a link.
That's just lazy.
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10/12/2015 12:42:49 PM
I was right.
"Everybody's Into Their Own Thing" by Father Time....
Very Epic. And you even shout a bit in it. I'm proud of you.
Quite good. Why, do you wanna know how good?
Lennon thought about 'maybe we could cover this one',
but I already told him you kinda don't go for that.
I thing I brought up the subject once before...
it's okay...
I like that record, Everybody's Into Their Own Thing,
like the lyrics too, made me laugh the bit about
'you lameasses gotta learn again to give a fuck'....
Nah... they can keep right on being lameasses, but it's nice to dream isn't it.
We can work on bettering ourselves as artists,
the whole purpose to their being artists is to help
the 'sane people' with perhaps less skill at eloquent articulation,
get a tap on that noise going on inside, called 'feelings'.
~L
Great Work.
May be my fave FT song so far...
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Bryon Tosoff
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10/12/2015 12:55:51 PM
Erica posted "Some people are so into their own thing they don't recognize, want or accept fact, common sense, advice, reason, humor or a good counter argument, nothing moves the immovable."
Seriously true
bt
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Noah Spaceship
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10/12/2015 4:44:27 PM
Living vicariously through their bravado. (Hell yes, Erica)
Guilty of that too. Haha.
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Shoe City Sound
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10/12/2015 5:10:38 PM
Agree with Erica too - and also love her music
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