Topics
IAC Prime Member
|
| | |
SOHNN
|
1/14/2007 9:41:02 PM
About Palestine's right to exist
It has been very clear that Israel is spreading its propaganda to the rest of the world, and Many of Israel’s war lies have already been deeply implanted in Western consciousness by the media, like the following:
That Hezbollah “started” the war by capturing two Israeli soldiers rather than that Israel maintained a hostile and provocative posture for the previous six years by daily sending in its warplanes and spy drones into Lebanese airspace;
-That Hezbollah’s launching of rockets into Israel was an act of aggression, even though they were fired after, and in response to, Israel’s massive bombing of civilian areas in Lebanon;
-That Hezbollah, unlike Israel, used the local civilian population as human shields, even though Israel’s continual and comprehensive aerial spying on south Lebanon produced almost no evidence of this;
-That Hezbollah, not Israel, targeted civilians, despite a death toll that suggests the exact opposite;
And that Hezbollah’s arming by Iran is entirely illegitimate, even though the weapons were used to defend Lebanon from a long-prepared Israeli attack, while Israel has an absolute right to receive its arsenal from the US.
The Guardian Unlimited, the online version of the London based newspaper, in an article entitled “EU poll sees Israel as peace threat,” reported:
“A European Commission opinion poll found 60% of Europeans see Israel as the greatest threat to world peace.’’
Well........................
|
|
|
1/14/2007 9:49:09 PM
Do you live there? If not how do you know what is true? What makes your sources the valid ones?
|
|
SOHNN
|
1/14/2007 11:02:41 PM
Nah,
I don't live there, but these are facts that have come up with time. Sometimes it is kind of difficult to go against the majority because they are right most of the times, and this is what the majority believes..............
|
|
The Man With No Band
|
1/15/2007 3:04:47 PM
There are always two sides to the story in any conflict... I find things are very seldom as simple as one side being right and one being wrong... The propoganda rises from both sides... I'm sure there are those from Israel that should be considered "terrorist" just as much as the Palestinians.... I don't know the answers and I try not to take sides because I am living in my cushy American home.. If I were living there I would be forced to take sides and I would not enjoy being labeled as a terrorist by those from abroad, who know very little of what "really" goes on... Were Paul Revere and his bunch "terrorist" ? The early Americans were Englishmen who felt that they were being oppressed and only wanted to have their own country..but in order to achieve that they created anarchy and spilled English blood.. The Palestinians also feel that they are being oppressed and Israel's forces occupy their land... How are they supposed to feel ?... How would you feel ?... Would you be a terrorist for fighting against oppression ? Would you be a terrorist for fighting for a cause that you felt was just ? Where would you stand if you were born in Israel? Where would you stand if you were born in Palestine? Does any one else have the right to stand anywhere in this conflict ?
|
|
SqurlyMurly
|
1/15/2007 3:08:12 PM
I have to agree with Larree and the mentor.
|
|
SOHNN
|
1/16/2007 2:04:10 AM
I think "the man with no band" has summarized it all. People are very quick to blame one side over another just because some government brands one group as evil and another as right.
To put it differently, imagine you are a small kid being bullied by a big kid. There is no way you will be able to defeat the bully by conventional means, but you could defeat him if you use stones and other unconventional means.
How do you expect the Iraqis to defeat the occupiers? How do you expect the Palestinians to defeat the occupiers? How do you expect the lesser armed, oppressed group to defeat the occupiers who have more superiour weaponry except by unconventional means?
This takes me to my second point. What is terrorism? Is a terrorist anybody who goes againt Israel or America? I dont think so. I tend to think that a terrorist is someone who kills innocent people. Well, this is exactly what the Israelis and the Americans are doing, or this is what they "initiated as in Iraq". The "terrorists" are just protecting themselves.......if the occupiers leave, then there will be no self defence, otherwise branded as "terrorism".
"Don't get me wrong, I hate terrorism, all forms of terrorism, the killing of innocent people, whether it be by Iraqis, Israelis, Americans, Palestinians, etc, I hate all forms of terrorism"
|
|
Hop On Pop
|
1/16/2007 9:59:38 AM
As a Jew, of course I've been indoctrinated to believe in the ultimate goodness of Israel, and the pure evil of the Palastinians.
As an adult, I have come to realize the complicated nature of the situation and how it's all one big gray area.
Of course Palestine has a right to exist. But I feel that Israel does, too. Is there a simple solution? No. One thing that has been going through my head for years, is the turning over of the West Bank to the Palestenians. And then we make Jereusalem a soverign city-state, as it has so much meaning to not only Muslims and Jews, but also to Christians.
Any issue regarding religion is tricky. But if we can set aside the dogma and come to the realization that all religions teach the same thing at their heart, we can come to some sort of mutually respectful agreement.
Yeah I sound like a hippie peacenik. Do you like war and bloodshed? Neither do "they".
|
|
The Man With No Band
|
1/16/2007 12:10:56 PM
Like I said before.. I try not to take sides.... I don't think I'm the only one here who has their head up their ass... I don't believe Israel has ever "pulled out" of the Gaza strip... One side is as much to blame here as the other... Peace is the answer... War has never proved anything except that a lot of people die...
|
|
The Man With No Band
|
1/16/2007 2:58:56 PM
Larree ..I agree with everything you said in your last post.... I think it is great that you try to be fair... I know that when one is close to a subject it is often hard to be so... As you are well aware the problems in that region have not sprang up over night... even though Israel was only "put on the map" so to speak in 1947 (I think I have the date right).. the regional conflict itself has existed for thousands of years and will not be resolved any time soon and maybe not until the day of Amageddon.
When talking of people having their heads in the sand (among other places) :) though, surely you will agree that there are extremist on BOTH sides.. and the "truth" we hear is seldom the "real truth" ... I'll use another subject to make my point... Bush says that if we fail in Iraq that the consequences will be utter turmoil... a non-bypartisan counsel has took a long hard look and recommended that we pull out... yet it is his theory that if we do the world will see utter chaos.... Were we not told by another administration that if we failed in Viet Nam that Communism would spread and that we could not afford to bail out ? I don't see where us finally leaving has had much of an impact on the worlds oppression.. I guess what I'm trying to say is that more times than not the "truth" is nothing but a well disguised lie and many times designed to do nothing more than bolster reasons to go to war... Peace has always been and will always be the answer... How that is achieved is a slow process and I think begins with people using their own brains instead of buying in to the propoganda........ Anyway PEACE :)
|
|
The Man With No Band
|
1/16/2007 3:02:15 PM
BTW... Sohnn ... good post... it is good to get people to converse and voice their opinions.. that is how we learn..... PEACE !
|
|
Dr T T BOL
|
1/16/2007 3:36:36 PM
Hi
Quote Sohn;
It has been very clear that Israel is spreading its propaganda to the rest of the world, and Many of Israel’s war lies have already been deeply implanted in Western consciousness by the media, like the following.
Unquote;
I know what you mean here Sohn, because I want to know.
But, what you have stated is what is a 'sweeping statement', because, you have not written what you meant, in a specific way.
When you say, QUOTE; It has been clear that Israel has been spreading propoganda to the rest of the world and Many of Israel’s war lies have already been deeply implanted in Western consciousness by the media, like the following.
UNQUOTE; You probably mean that it is clear to you and a lot of people, only thing is, the way you have written it implies that totally everyone sees it this way, but that is incorrect, in my view. Because it is not an absolute truth that the entire world shares this one viewpoint.
QUOTE Sohn;
Nah,
I don't live there, but these are facts that have come up with time. Sometimes it is kind of difficult to go against the majority because they are right most of the times, and this is what the majority believes..............
UNQUOTE;
Here what you mean to say is incorrectly written, because I think you mean that the majority THINK that they are right most of the times, the way you have stated it, means that the majority are in fact always right.
I think you meant this;
Sometimes it is kind of difficult to go against the majority because what the majority believes, is that it is right, most of the time.
Or perhaps I have misunderstood you and you really did intend to say/state that you think that a majority in any sort of thing, are mostly correct in their ideas/views/opinions/feelings.
Greetings,
Terry
|
|
SOHNN
|
1/17/2007 3:14:19 PM
I meant that the majority are correct most of the times, except for only a few times, as when the minority abolished racial, gender, and other forms of prejudices, but on average, wisdom lies in the multitude.
Anyway, I think its time that Israel stops assuming that the world is sympathising with her. The holocoust happened (or its a myth according to some), I don't care, but its time the nation started being responsible for its actions.
Why are they acting like they can get away with everything just because of the holocoust? They refused to sign the Nuclear plorifecation treaty, they refuse to admit whether they possess any nuclear weapons, and they get the loudest to blast Iran for its ambitions. They attack Lebanon and Palestine hoping to keep getting away with it, "Just because of the holocoust?" I think its time we all should decide what is wrong and punish all the "terrorists". As I said before, is a terrorist a person who goes against Israel and America, or is he a person who kills innocent people for selfish ambitions?????
|
|
Hop On Pop
|
1/18/2007 9:34:54 AM
"Just because of the Holocaust"?!?!
That's like telling Black Americans to "get over" slavery (I believe there is a news item in the US papers today about a senator who said something to that effect), only the Holocaust is a much more recent, much more tender wound. Please don't go there. You are an obviously intelligent, thoughtful person.
There is a lot of gray area, it is true. And while I do believe that Palestine has a right to exist, so does Israel. And Israelis are fighting for their very survival every day.
The Holy Land has become a Hell for many of its inhabitants.
What must God think of all this?
Everyone?
|
|
SqurlyMurly
|
1/18/2007 10:46:50 AM
I'm getting some pretty bad vibes Sohnn. You appear to be harboring some extreme anti-American and anti-Jewish sentiments.
You don't care? What, you don't care that the holocaust happened? How can you be that insensitive in your post?
Can you possibly say one good thing about either?
|
|
Dr T T BOL
|
1/18/2007 10:48:07 AM
Ok
Still though, I do not know whether I believe that what a majority decides on, is wisdom showing itself or if those decisions made by a majority are the correct ones, and then, I mean, I do not know if I believe that most of the time the majority and it's decisions are the correct ones.
Because, look at the former Germany, now you are talking in terms of war about all kinds of places, and, you are trying to make sense of what is what, but, I do not know if simplictic statements help that ideal, for the simple fact that akll of these world threatening situations have roots and are not so simply analysed, Germany was in the deepest depression, most people were swayed along by the propoganda the Nazi machine spewed onto their mentaql templates, and it left them with a warped design that led to millionds of their own people dead and to the loss of millions of lives throughout the world. Those people, the simple people starving, were fooled, by having their sense of pride and self-esteem falsely jacked up, we are the greatest nation just like Geiorge Bush keeps on saying, it is NATION and the false pride in people that withholds them from perceiving their beauty as a single world nation of the human race which is not separate groups but scientifically, medically, genetically all has the same root, it is the human being who cannot reach out fully to others and who cannot FORGIVE and does not also know what it means for the world to 'LOVE YOUR ENEMIES' that is the cause of the problems not God.
Those who think God is on their side and use this too, most often also do not know how to put those fine words into practice.
Love your enemies is not what it seems on the surface it is a far-reaching concept which, through its mechanism will free the world of the war-like tendency and mind.
If one loves what is hardest to love then that is a true sign of love everyone loves its/his/her own any fool does that. When people LOVE their ENEMIES the enemies cease to exist.
The classic trap is to stand up for a cause and go so into it that the goal is forgotten and the very same tools are used as the ones that the person hated in the first place wanted to get rid of so in the end all as there is bewcomes ANGER, inasmuch as, the different groups, in essence, all say the same thing, namely;
I am right,
My way is THE way,
We are the greatest, our way is the right way, to prove it we have the right to hurt you.
That is why humans show no compassion to one and other and then seeing as how this mental ineptitude started somewhere it means there is a place where it can be stopped too. Kill the anger in the self. Blame the self, the selfish self.
Or blame it on the sun the sun that didn't shine (Stevie Wonder)
Terry
|
|
Dr T T BOL
|
1/18/2007 11:05:58 AM
Typing mistakes once more, at least these;
propaganda
simplistic
and obvious others too.
It's a pity these text boxes don't allow for editing!
|
|
SOHNN
|
1/19/2007 12:07:25 AM
I think Dr. T. T. Bol is giving very insightful comments, I mean, his comments aren't biased against Israel/America and the Arabs. He has chose to go the way of the bible, or the way of religion I might say, but I usually don't like mingling religion with secular arguments just due to the fact that religion is all about belief while science is about fact and the two can't go hand in hand, so I tend to avoid mixing them...
Anyway, I don't have no antiAmerican/ AntiJewish sentiments.
Someone pointed right, the Holocoust to the Israelis is just like Slavery to African Americans. Would you be so happy to see the African Americans aggressing against the Caucasians or the Asians just because they went through slavery? Would you be pleased to see the African Americans committing many "grey area" acts expecting to be understood and sympathesized with just because they went through slavery? I would be really pissed off if the African Americans did some foolish acts just because they went through slavery, and I would also condemn them deeply (although I am African too).
Secondly, as mentioned above, the holocoust seems like a very delicate wound which tends to rapture any time it is touched. We all hear racist comments everyday, and we are all reminded of the slavery period everyday, but I rarely see any African American flare up with anger. Why harbour so much self pity because of some event. I believe the holocoust happened, but I tend to be liberal enough to listen to the other side argument too, but who cares if it happened or not? Who cares if slavery happened or not? If we forget about slavery, is there a danger of it occuring again? Who cares? Why are we supposed to keep the holocoust sacred? It is a historical fact, true, it happened, so what? Africa was colonized, America was colonized. It is a historical fact, who cares? We learn from history, we don't use it to acquire sympathy and perform aggressiver foolish acts...
I am sorry if I appear "consciousless" but I would be pleased if someone explains to me why I should "holify" the holocoust, why I need to treat it as a sacred occurance in history.
Well, as I also said before, if about 80 % of the people go for one thing over another, there is a very good chance that thing is better (and that is how the legal system works too). If most of the world is against the American and Israeli policies, then there is a good chance that those policies need to be reconsidered.
I have no antiAmerican or AntiJewish sentiments, I am just angry at how they ride over everyone who goes against their wishes, calling them terrorists........................
|
|
SqurlyMurly
|
1/19/2007 1:11:26 PM
Sorry dude but I've lost respect for you as a person and that affects my ability to respect you as an artist, so I'm removing your material from my stations. Also, I find the photo next to "who is the best" a repulsive sight. I guess he didn't oppress his people, eh? Oh, that's right, its all lies. You Sohnn, you have the truth. Son (and I don't call you that cause you're so bright), do yourself a favor and get some sensitivity training along with your AMERICAN education.
|
|
Dr Terribol
|
1/19/2007 1:28:44 PM
Hello Sohn,
That isnt really what I am about, not what I am saying. That I am behind a religion myself.
But, when world leaders purport to being Christians, then, I think it is necessary that they know what they are saying and doing.
To me Mr Blair and Mr Bush casnnot be followers of jesus, because their actions do not mirror what Jesus said.
I stated these things because I have studied Jesus and I think I understand love at least, what it really is and what it certainly is not.
For instance in all of the ancient texts it says thou shalt not kill or say it however you like but they are saying that at the highest level in the main department of anyone's head office of God, their God was telling them, life is sacred so do not kill it.
So to me if someone loved God truly and imagined that God then was something that in a way was bigger than the self, seeing as most religions do see a creator God as the creator, then to kill what God made is a crime towards God.
No, I think, humans have learnt how to be cruel and made excuses for not being kind, made excuses for being cruel.
So it means people cannot just say they follow God or that they are religious because action does speaker louder than words.
The difference Sohn with your point about the genocide of the Jewish (and many of other people too at that time; Homosexuals, gypsies, invalids, etcetera) in World War Two and the forced removal of all kinds of African people out of Africa to far off places around the world to be used as slaves, meaning they were forced to work without any rights at all and without pay and were mistreated in any way the slave keepers decided on, is this I think;
Parallels/similarities
1/ None of the two terrible events were worse than each other.
2/ They were both equally awful ways invented by human hands, in order to benefit certain people, whether alone or in groups called NATIONS or single citizens of any of those nations.
3/ Both severe demionstrations of human ignorance both showed that humans could kill other humans, torture them, do anything to them they wished.
NOTE: Though many do not care, many people do and always have cared and will continue to care, it is important to CARE otherwise all of these bad ways will repeat themselves because to not care would have to mean people are allowed to get away with anything and to know they will get away with it to start with. We MUST care or we are NOWHERE!
Differences and what it means for/to us all as human race
1/ The Holocaust is demonstrative as ''a way'' in a different manner than the slave trade was, "a way".
2/
a) The way of the slave trade had as primary intention not to eradicate an enire folk/peoples or group, and to wipe away any trace of their precious existence.
b) The extermination of the Jewish peoples was meant primarily to wipe away every trace of their precious existence and to give their group, The Jesih people's group, no chance of GFUTURE life, in any shape or form, even after being used as slaves in camps, there was absolutely no intention to allow them anything at all.
Though the slavery of African peopes demonstrated how far humans may go in their hatred propelled by their own greed, still the intention of the slavery was to gain riches for what was the white peoples and all of their group, groups they titled their nation.
It is this that made the (so-called) civilized world decide to make a point of this event, the Holocaust because although there had been genocidal tendencies, since human memory in one way or the other, nobody had been quite as successful in it as the Nazi Political Party was.
The reason it happens to be the Holocaust that we have in our world as THE one guide line to human decency and lack of it, is that, the whole act, the way demonstrated by the Nazis, is all about how human beings tend to create SCAPEGOATS for their problems. The way of commemorating these vile acts from World War Two is done in o
|
|
SOHNN
|
1/19/2007 1:31:22 PM
Well,
I don't know, I remain liberal to accept any ideas, whether they challenge my beliefs or not, analyze the arguments and see whether they make sense without attaching my emotions into it. Anyway, I still remain unconvinced about such stuff as the holocoust, etc, but in order to "retain my respect" with the community, then I guess I should not express my ideas so liberally..........................................................
|
|
SOHNN
|
1/19/2007 1:48:48 PM
I have also read Dr. Terrible's comment and I like how he phrases his comments....The parallels also make sense...at least to me....
Anyway, it is easy for a non-victim to analyse a situation than a victim perse.
As an African, and I direct this question to Laree and Squirmuly....I have been through some shit, even at this present moment. I get really pissed off when some countries like Germany, Russia, and most European countries degrade the African people. Do you think I enjoy reading that some black human beings were killed by some white fools? Do you think I sit down happily when I hear some fools say that they are superior to me, and in reality I could very well consider myself superior than most of those ass holes considering my education, gifts, etc? Do you think I am very happy when I walk to a place and deep inside me, I know that these assholes despise me because of my race? Do you think it is a very good feeling when I meet ass holes who talk openly about their hatred for my race and there is nothing one could do? Do you think it is a good feeling to know that homeless assholes look down on me because of my race and they gat nothing? Do you think I am very grateful to have to deal with all these shit?
The truth is that all these problems affect me and other people deep inside. Some of us remain cool and don't show it but cry at nights when we remember what happened the day before. Some of use cry when we remember that we have to struggle thru shit just to get what other races get much more easily. You might argue about the legal system and such shit, but this is psychological torture men. It ain't pretty.
But here I am, here we are, smiling and chilling out, so that you think all is well, but deep inside is a hell...there is nothing I can do about it except to wait for time to bring some changes.
Well, this is a deep wound for me and many other people, but we have learnt to deal with such shit man, or else we will end up dying of psychological torture.
You know what, this seems to be the same shit the jews are going through. Their past is haunting to them because it means so much to them, but they have gained a voice. The jews have gained much respect, and they find it hurting when a person mentions their past. I am still going through such shit, but I am cool.
So my point is this, I can talk about anything because nothing can be worse than what I have been through, or what I am going through. I talk to try to find ways of handling some of these shit man.
So I don't see why you should flare up with anger and hate people who talk to you about your past. I dont see why you should be too emotional about this shit. I can decide and act the same way, but I will get nowhere. So I just don't see the point of too much emotion, I really dont....................................
|
|
SqurlyMurly
|
1/19/2007 4:43:59 PM
Sohnn, I despise the fact that ANYONE has to deal with any kind of prejudice. I would think that since you have experienced this crap firsthand that you would be more sensitive to the plight of others. The most prejudice I ever encountered was because we were poor white trash; and because I was a girl I wasn't allowed to play baseball (even though by the coach's words, I was better than 90% of his team), and I wasn't allowed to play drums in school. I was encouraged to play the flute or clarinet; a more feminine instrument. Bullshit.
I think its horrible that we kill, maim and ostracize those who are different somehow. Throughout history, if you believe it or course, prejudice has reared its ugly head. Christians fed to the lions, American Indians pushed off their lands, Africans taken from their home and forced into slavery, The Jewish people herded into concentration camps and gas chambers, the genocide in Rwanda, Bosnia, the Armenians. The list could go on and on.
Do I think that one deserves more attention than another? No. As human beings we have to educate people on the past, to make them aware of atrocities that our forefathers committed or endured. From that it is the hope that we will learn and grow; try to make a better world for all.
I don't know the places you go to or the people you are referring to, but maybe its your "holier than thou" attitude that brings out the worst in people. Maybe its not prejudice at all. I mean, what makes you think that I believe all that you say. You don't believe my history. That is essentially what you are portraying here.
I know its your right to put any photo you desire on your page, but given circumstances I find it offensive to have a picture of Saddam Hussein on any page I authored. Again, I suppose you don't believe that he committed atrocities against his own people, that he oppressed his own people. For an educated person, you seem to be pretty naive; or you are so wrapped up in your own feelings of oppression that you refuse to believe it happens to others. Whatever, I think you need to work on putting YOUR past behind you and get on with the positive aspects of your life.
|
|
SOHNN
|
1/19/2007 6:24:59 PM
Well,
I agree to your points. True, many people have through similar circumstances, myself, you, and many others. Well, it is good that we can talk about this openly and confidently. I didn't experience racism until a few years ago when I came to U.S., so my wound is kinda fresh, but I don't believe in no hate propaganda. I just tend to be critical and tend to listen and try to understand every view point.
To be sincere, I have no hard feelings about Saddam, actually, he is kind of a hero for refusing to succumb to foolish aggression. Well, many Arabs tend to support my view point but many Americans and Jews tend to oppose it. The question is, "who is right"? It is all relative, perspective depends on a person's view point. I don't like the American and Jewish aggression, so Saddam is a hero, some people support the American and the Jewish aggresion, and so Saddam is an enemy. As I said before, there are many current leaders who are like Saddam, but no one dares to remove them because they are powerful, Saddam was just unlucky because he wasn't as powerful. So, I have no problem with him.
But, I really appreciate people who reason and understand the points of other people, that may be called naivete, but fools seek to gain more education and thus become wiser, but "wise" people who think they gat it all tend to remain the same way..........
I appreciate the points of views of everyone who has contributed to this debate, but I still remain unconvinced about matters concerning terrorism, the holocoust, and Israeli policies...........................
|
|
Dr Terribol
|
1/19/2007 8:28:27 PM
Hello.
Another thing not to mix up is the thing Israel, and the thing Jewish.
The Jewish people were persecuted.
One of the reasons they have been persecuted not just by the Nazis but through theworld through the ages is because of their part in the killingof Jesus.
Israel consistsof many different types of people.
Before the state of Israel was formed many different groups had lived peacefully side by side for ages.
Nobody from what I've seen of the replies here has said that any person's grief was more valid or bad or worse than any other person's, but anger will not help anyone's cause.
I cannot accept that stand point as being valid though Sohn, that because another side thinks they are right/correct and use the tools of aggression and war and fighting, thast it then makes Saddam Hussein a hero if you do not happen to stand behind America or Isreals policies.
I think that NOBODY is any kind of a hero if they allow innocent men women and children to be gassed in the mountain-side homes and even on the streets, so opowerful was the poisonous gasses used.
So it is very cruel what you are saying really, I go to a hairdresser.barber here (I live in a multi-cultural part of town there is every kind of nationality here) and they are from Kurdistand, when I was there there was an African guy there too, having his haircut, we all said hello, we all were friendly, could you sit there, with us, andhave your haircut too by these lovely people, and then tell them what your viewpoint is about Saddam Hussein, I mean, let's bring it down to real human interaction, real life, real people, are you saying you'd go and espouse your theories and opinions in this way to this bunch of people, wouldn't you be inclined to be kind to them and be generous in sympathy and wouldn't you want to try to understand them, they would certainly listen to you sincerely and want to help you, they would not say that the things you feel upset by and have genuinely been upset by are not valid or real, they would not just start to tell you the terrible things they have been through, having to run, from all sides, being a part of the human race that has also been persecuted by elements of certain Turkish, Irani, and Iraqi opolitics and policies, they were a people also witrhout any homeground, but they would notr begin to cry to you, only about their story, about how their whole family, babioes inclusive, were gassed by the regime of saddam Hussein.
DSaddam was not weak.
And that the governments of others have not been taken down or opposed or dealt with in the same way, yes, I see your point, it is hypocritical, because many are just as awful as Saddam Hussein, but what the Americans and BVBrits have done and are doing isanotherstory, about if it is sensible or not, it is a huge debate but that what saddam let happen, there is no way to say it was okay. And for you to call him a hero, makes me think yyou are misplacing your anger, when you do not really mean to be this cruel.
I simply cannot believe that you are being sincere if you are saying Hussein is a hero.
I for one, do not believe in heroes, there are none for me, on any side, not in hate and miscomprehension. A real hero could only be a person who avoids the game-play of the paths of hatred and instead of using these things saying that it is for good, abandons the lies and blindness and creates true love and understanding through peaceful means instead.
I hope you re-engage your thoughts Sohn because I know you are not sincere about this hussein hero bizznizz, I think it is something to do with your dignitry and feeling mixed up about things that you are then in fact saying nothing new or constructive but paying the vey same game of indifference and pretending that you are shallow but I domn't think you are otherwise you woul'dnt have started writing about these things, I think you are pissed off by the lies you see but are becoming too angry and this is lowetring yourself.
It is no use
|
|
SOHNN
|
1/20/2007 12:25:07 AM
Hey Dr. T.....
I still stand by my point, that I see nothing wrong with Saddam. Actually right now, my anger flares when I listen to the debates about bringing the troops home. Sometimes I can't comprehend the amount of lives lost in Iraq. At least 100,000 innocent people have died since the aggression began. What is the cause of their death? A mistake by the Bush administration, a fight which was originally based on the idea that their leader had weapons of mass destruction, which have never been found. This was the basis of the aggression, all the other human rights violation shit came afterwards, after no weapons were found. I am really pissed off when I hear the congress arguing that this is an Iraqi affair, that the Iraqi people are killing each other, it doesn't concern America. Who the fuck started this shit? Who the fuck initiated the "Iraqi killing Iraqi?" Why is there even the debate of leaving Iraq after fucking it up?
This is one of the few things that really pisses me off. But this injustice isn't condemned just because it was initiated by America, Oh the great America, a land that can never admit any wrong, a land which always protects its own interests. If another country had fucked up Iraq in a similar way, all the Americans would be so pissed off, so mad, at the point of attacking this country.
Yes, I am pissed of at the loss of over 100,000 Iraqi lives under the guise of "freedom". Fuck freedom if I have lost my parents, fuck freedom if I have lost my sons, fuck freedom if it allows women to vote but my mother is dead. Fuck freedom.
This is what pisses me off, holocoust doesnt piss me off, slavery doesn't piss me off. If we speak against the current aggression, then our voice about past aggression towards the jews, towards the Africans, would be legit. This shit is going on but nobody is talking against it. Its a fuckin genocide of the Iraqis. This was all initiated by the Americans.
Saddam stood to prevent the death of more than 100,000 innocent people. He is a hero. He didnt kill even half this number? He couldn't have killed even half this number?
Yeah, this has pissed me off, it has pissed of the Arabians. The west is comfortable with it. It takes a real man to feel the pain of someone else.................................so,
to answer Dr. T, I would comfortable stand up in that barber shop and give them the figures of the dead Iraqi people, and condemn the fuckin aggression (by the way, some assholes are really emotional about the loss of ~3000 people, fuck that, Iraqi has lost more than 100,000, so fuck them....)
I harbor no hatred in me, but I hate aggression and selfishness..........please help me out of feeling for the oppressed...........................
|
|
SOHNN
|
1/20/2007 12:33:33 AM
And please, dont get me wrong, I don't hate America or Israel, I love them, I just hate their policies, about Saddam, just because you dislike him doesn't mean that you should dislike people who respect him. Everyone has different opinions, and you should consider other people reasoning before counting them as enemies or friends. Actually, a debate shouldn't create enemity, but more understanding between people......hopefully
|
|
Dr Terribol
|
1/20/2007 9:44:52 AM
Hi Sohn,
Love and like re also two different things, one may love people but dislike what they do, and say.
I do not like what you are saying. I do not have to like you, it does not then mean that I hate you.
Whether or not I like you is another matter.
The things you are using asa way to vent your anger, are all different issues, and instead then of expressing your points articulately, you are now just screaming, saying that they this that and the other. Who are THEY.
You are generalizing, I think.
Shouting about what is going on now in Iraq has nothing to do with the bad things Saddam Hussein did.
How can you know exactly what everyone thinks.
So many people are against what is happening in Iraq now.
And people are upset by that.
You say you respect Saddam Hussein. Then that's your choice, generous of you, because he would not have respected you.
You have a song there on your page taking about God and all of that and Jesus coming back and that he would then have taken you home with him, but Jesus spoke of having an own mind and spoke logically too, from what I can make out, and he did not say two wrongs make a right.
I find that you are saying that two wrongs do make a right.
I mean, it is weak I find, to use such arguments, like look at me, my pain is so much worse than yors therefore I have a right to asccuse and shout at others.
In this way, I see no difference from you or to the aggression of anyone else.
You have valid points somewhere, I can feel it, but you are mixing everything up and weakening your worthy points of view, pulling them down and making them unincredible, what you are esposing is now not unique, when somewhere in this story you do have something original to say.
You cannot truly articulate on why you respect Mr Saddam Hussein without bringing all kinds of irrelevant topics into play, as far as I can see until now anyhow.
You respect Ssaddam Hussein who was a murderer.
I do not have to respect you for respecting him.
I respect you, but if this is really your view, and your way, that you trespect a murderer a cold-blooded killer, as Saddam was, then I do not think I want to try to find a way to have a liking for you.
I will not hate you, but I will feel sorry for you, that you are using stumbling blocks as benches on which to sit.
The policies being carried out now in Iraq have nothing to do with whether Charles Manso or saddam Hussein were unenlightened and insane madmen.
You do not care about the slave trade but your whole life and existence has been shaped by the past, the past led up to the present.
Your anger has to do with your sense of dignity, because you are now asccusing all people through being inarticulate, you want to argue severeely heavy points but you are rushing into battle, and tripping up over your own armour.
What use is what you are saying if you cannot shopw that what you are saying is based on shining a light where things are very dark, what you are saying is that Saddam was a good man, who meant well, even when he agreed and allowed the killing of babies, under his regime.
Any person who agrees and takes part in such things is entirely disrespectful to everyone else, and as you mentioned Jesus, disrespectful to him too.
Why did Jesus say let the dead bury their dead Sohn, do you have any idea?
If you do I'd like to know what you think he meant, seeing as you yourself had stated that you think Jesus would think you are doing good, even if you say you think that Saddam Hussein wasa god person to kill little defenceless babies.
Explain it without shouting, accusing, and rendering your own points worthless in that way. Otherwise it is not discussion, it is not conversing, it is like the violence so many do.
My idea about Jesus saying let the dead bury their dead.
Is that he considered people who do not work at love and do things in accordance with it, can lie to the world and to themselves but the truth is, they are already dead, dead to love.
It
|
|
Dr Terribol
|
1/20/2007 9:47:40 AM
even if you say you think that Saddam Hussein was a god person to kill little defenceless babies.
Was meant to say 'good person'
not god person
but both work
because he was neither in his deeds
|
|
SqurlyMurly
|
1/20/2007 2:53:05 PM
I feel sorry for you Sohnn. You have so much anger & hate within you and only you know why. However, I feel you are misdirecting this hate to America and Israel. Let's look at your comments:
1-- "Anyway, I still remain unconvinced about such stuff as the holocoust, etc,"
2--"At least 100,000 innocent people have died since the aggression began."
3--"Oh the great America, a land that can never admit any wrong, a land which
always protects its own interests."
4--"Yes, I am pissed of at the loss of over 100,000 Iraqi lives under the guise
of "freedom". Fuck freedom if I have lost my parents, fuck freedom if I have
lost my sons, fuck freedom if it allows women to vote but my mother is
dead. Fuck freedom."
5--"to answer Dr. T, I would comfortable stand up in that barber shop and give
them the figures of the dead Iraqi people, and condemn the fuckin
aggression (by the way, some assholes are really emotional about the
loss of ~3000 people, fuck that, Iraqi has lost more than 100,000, so fuck
them....)"
6-- Everyone has different opinions, and you should consider other people
reasoning before counting them as enemies or friends."
7--"SOHNN is committed to encouraging people to be themselves, mind they
own business, respect others, and have a purpose in life. His most
inspirational saying is… “if you have to win a revolution, you gat to win with
blood, if you win any other way, y’all gonna fight again…” PEACE…."
Okay Sohnn,
#1--you don't believe anything about the Holocaust, yet you believe information
about 100,000 lives lost in Iraq.
#2--see #1
#3--yea America is great. perhaps not right all the time and maybe not perfect,
but I prefer it to many other places; and especially a place like Iraq with
Saddam (before the war). And yes, America protects its own interests--
and you Sohnn--like it or not--are one of America's interests. Tell us more
about your education. Hmmm...I wonder if the man you respect so much,
would have allowed you an education. How would you have faired living in a
Nazi state? You don't think it was just the Jewish people they hated, do
you? Just a thought.
#4--I don't think you know the meaning of the word "empathy" so I wouldn't
expect you to be capable of it. How many parents do you think have died in
wars protecting their children? How many children do you suppose died
protecting their parents and siblings; their friends and fellow countrymen?
How many died for freedom in America so that future generations would
make use of that freedom? How many died so that YOU could come here
and be what you are? How many, Sohnn? Its not "fuck freedom". Its fuck
what you have and why you have it. Now there's a thought for you to
ponder.
#5--so it doesn't matter that those 3000 people of the WTC have families &
friends that miss them? That's the message you are sending with that
statement. It doesn't matter that terroists committed such a horrible act?
Oh, you are such a religious sort, aren't you? Sounds very hypocritical to
me.
#6--I'm not the one spouting "hate" and "fuck" all over the place. You are entitled
to your opinions, but that doesn't mean I have to respect them or you. But, I
believe it is your right to feel that way and it doesn't make you an enemy or
a friend. I just don't put much faith in one who shows so much disdain for
an entity while drinking from their cup.
#7--revolution? blood? gonna fight again?
|
|
SOHNN
|
1/20/2007 7:10:52 PM
Well,
I have come to realize that everyone agrees that killing ain't right. Well, Saddam used to kill and gas people and that wasn't right. The North Korean leader kills and hangs people to maintain his rule, that ain't right either. Bush is killing to protect his interests, that ain't right. Israel is killing to protect its interests, that ain't right. Palestine is killing to defend itself, that ain't right neither. The Jews were killed too, that wasn't right. The Innocent people shouldn't be killed by anyone because of anything. If someone decides to lay his life for the sake of his country, for the sake of his people or his future, then that is right. Many people gave up their lives for freedom, great people like Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, Jesus, etc, at least they gave up their lives willingly to protect the greater cause. Well, the Iraqis are being killed and they aren't giving their lives up willingly for freedom, so I beg to differ with the point of many, that the Iraqis are dying for a good cause. They need to be ready to give up their lives fighting for the cause, not being killed by someone else.
Well, according to me, all this gets down to one point, anyone who kills innocent people is a terrorist. A person who dies fighting for something worthwhile is respected, but a person who kills innocent people arguing that he is giving them freedom can't be respected.
I supported Saddam because I don't see how different he is from Bush. Well, it is true Saddam was a killer and deserved to die, the same applies for Bush, he is a killer of innocent people just like Saddam. Olmert is a killer of innocent people just like Saddam. The Hammas government is a killer of innocent people just like Saddam. I don't respect none of them and I wish similar judgement is held for killers. The problem is that many Western people support one killer, and many Arabs support the other killer. Both are killers and the same judgement should befall each of them.
That was all I wanted to say, not that I support killers, but I respect people who stand against killers, people who stand tall for human rights, no matter who the violator is, be it Saddam, America, Palestine, Israel, North Korea, China, Cuba, etc, I respect people who stand and condemn these acts, people who aren't afraid of anything.
So, then, we should all try to do something against the injustices going on. I try to do something through my songs, through such blogs, and through newspapers.
|
|
|
�2015-16 IndieMusicPeople.com All Rights
Reserved
| |
|