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Francesca Tamellini
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11/8/2017 8:09:59 PM
Imp charts
Which is more prestigious, the kayak top25 or the IMP charts?
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11/9/2017 12:54:39 AM
I'd say It's much harder to get a place in the Kayak top 25 but while the selection committee is smaller, the audience is potentially bigger.
A high chart position might make us feel a wee bit cocky until we look at some of the songs that also mysteriously made it there ;)
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Goony Goon
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11/9/2017 4:45:40 AM
Solar prestige a gammon.
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WWMM Michael
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11/9/2017 10:04:43 AM
Ha ha; you kinda forgot about a third option Francesca! Being a featured artist on my station. Just kidding ha ha; well maybe! LOL!
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Francesca Tamellini
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11/9/2017 5:40:24 PM
Of course Michael, I was comparing a Dodge and a Nissan, I wasn’t asking about the Maserati!
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The Jay Dyall Project
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11/9/2017 8:53:30 PM
Billboard Top 40!! :-)
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WWMM Michael
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11/9/2017 8:54:16 PM
Awww, you are making me blush Francesca! If my station is a Maserati, then the Golden Kayaks are the Bugatti Chiron!
Speaking of which, in what GK categories can I nominate you? Since Whitherward is a duo, I'll go with Indie Folk Duo of the Year for them. How about Female Artist of the Year for you? Or maybe Artist of the Year sounds even better?
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Stoneman
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11/10/2017 12:47:40 AM
I'm not sure either is prestigious at all. One has more to do with the opinions of the site management and the other has a lot to do with whoever is listening to music around here and whatever their tastes may be. On the other hand, stats can be manipulated by a variety of means. But, I suppose that the perceived opinions of the many probably out weigh those of the few. So, well, I guess you know where I am going here. The charts are probably a bit more prestigious. Prestige is always contingent on opinion and everyone has got one. Personally, I feel that the kayak top 25 songs are extrememly genre biased and indicative of the tastes of those who run things. But once again, that is just my opinion (even I have one). Go figure...........
Much Respect,
Stoneman
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Bryon Tosoff
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11/10/2017 1:46:52 AM
Charts, hmmm not really, although nice to get action and interest and building a following here at IMP, getting into the kayak top 25, probably better cause it shows you have some mojo going on, and since one gets some airtime getting on the Kayak top 25 .but in reality ,taking it to the next level to see if anyone likes it outside of here on your own, pushing your tunages by promoting yourself, that could be the real test. Then possibly getting playlisted on terrestrial radio and possibly getting a bit of charting, not easy. Now that is in the ears and decision of music directors, that is tough, then making some royalties from your songs , thats a challenge and getting tougher all the time. But if one learns the business of music then more opportunities and doors will open. Stoneman can attest to that, he has had more success then most at that part of it around here.
I have said this many times here, and basically Its about learning the business of music, not just making music, that is if one is really serious. Although if it is for personal enjoyment, doing it for the art and love doing it. That is rewarding in itself. We can see that in order to do that, you have to work your craft, and keep working developing your chops, polishing and plodding away and working towards a goal.
To many here, it is cool to be a part of a community, which no other place offers the camaraderie as is here at IMP, I have found that out, over the many years I have been here, and there are great musicians here, no doubt. But it takes more then being good or great at what you do, a lot has to do with attitude. Pushing through when one feels like giving up, so what are your goals and objectives, are you satisfied with what you have done so far, then that is not good enough. One always has to push the envelop and work at becoming an expert at what you do,it takes dedication ,determination and desire, those are some of the keys to success in any business, as for the music end of things, learn the business as well because you are swimming with millions of others who want what your may want, how bad do you want to succeed in this biz, million aspire to be successful and get to the top, few ever achieve that, cause they give up, as for me, well throw me a life preserver, I am drowning.
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Verity
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11/10/2017 2:23:31 AM
---- Updated 11/10/2017 2:24:25 AM
Just wanted to follow up on Stoneman's comment about kayak picks just reflecting the taste of the picker - That certainly was the case in the past. if you look at the Kayak Classics (Bottom Left) you'll see there are many "Alternative Pop Rock" Pop, Rock and Alternative.
Then check out the Kayak Big 25 or the Featured songs today and they include
Blues, Jazz, Electronic, Miscellaneous, Soul Acoustic, Americana, Indie Folk, Easy, Singer/songwriter. They seem pretty eclectic and fair I think - more Comedy, HipHop and Thrash Metal would be fairer perhaps :)
Maybe a few more Country Songs would reflect the many excellent contributing artists here! But they do make an appearance also from time to time.
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Father Time
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11/10/2017 7:16:45 AM
A country song a few weeks ago was #1 on Kayak btw.
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WWMM Michael
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11/10/2017 7:48:15 AM
Good morning Bryon! So if I am reading correctly part of what you are saying is "It is our attitude, not our aptitude, that determines our altitude."
We can apply that to every type of career or aspect of our lives, eh? There is real joy in being creative and being able to sing and/or play a musical instrumental well for the joy of ourselves and others.
I derive great pleasure from listening to your works, to those of Francesca and DeMonicka, those from Whitherward, and on and on and on. I wish I was independently wealthy and could just listen to IMP all day, every day, and learn of hundreds of artists and thousands of songs here. That is just a pipe dream of mine though.
I need to sit down and play my little Yamaha keyboard and Baldwin piano more often for my wife and myself. Social media has taken up too much of my time for the past year and a half. But for me, 95% of that is all about the music.
I am just glad I don't have to try to make a living making music. Since being here for a few months now, I can see how difficult that is. I would be living downtown under a bridge trying to do so. I have a wife who loves me, and family and friends offline and online who do also. We have a roof over our heads and stay warm in the winter. I have never missed a meal (and really need to) and have plenty of clothes to wear. Sustenance and covering and love. What else do we all really need? Paradise and a return to the Garden, I reckon. That is coming and I/we need to keep in expectation of it and be patient and mild tempered. The meek (not weak) shall inherit the earth (and one that is cleansed).
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Bryon Tosoff
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11/10/2017 9:19:51 AM
The biggest thing is indeed attitude, great players and singers dont always make it.. it is the social game out plodding away, working your chops, playing live is one of the best ways to get better , honestly it is, like Bob Balsey for one example, there are many more such as Stoneman.
get gigs, learn how to work music software to record your own music. learn a new instrument, keep learning. Once one falls into a sloppy and careless attitude, they are finished, cause it is hard to get back in the craft.
This is a great place, but it aint gonna get you where you got to go. its one aspect, get out and meet people in the trade, smoke and mirrors and self delusion wont. You may meet people here that can help you, perhaps, most are in it for their own selfish reasons, few really care about other people and many dont know dick about how things work in the music business. That is key, it is more then the music. especially in this day and age, you have to wear many hats until you find the right people who can help you get to where you want to go
Michael, aptitude is one thing, and becoming an expert at your music craft or trade is on thing, attitude is the other, learn the ropes.
Hope I piss off and offend a lot of you, cause you have to be real, out there in the world. Again, this is my take, you can throw it in the garbage, and I do this to get people motivated too lol
But then many musicians just sit and write scores for commercials movies TV and do very well,and dont gig, but its how to get there. What are you goals and objectives, to be an overnight success it could take 5 10 20 years to build your network and improve your songcrafting to the point where it is good or better then most others.
I am not a performing musician anymore, I did at one time, but did not achieve and real status or success per se, but have had little wins. I focused on the promotion end of things for artists, even then none are major stars, but have made a good living doing what they do.
I keep saying it, Want success, learn the business of music ,how it works, investigate and dig down , read books, get out into the real world, not here. this is a launching pad of sorts, and a good place. But you will never gain any traction at all here.
Thats the truth
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Bryon Tosoff
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11/10/2017 10:26:10 AM
There are incredible artists here, Probably the single most amazing songcrafter here is Steve Ison,one of my all time favs, ( who should be a star and is ) and right there as well mcdaid.Bob Elliott, one guy I have worked with and lays down phenom songs is James Elliott. there are so many countless others. who have all the tools and abilities and bring forth supremely awesome works , I am not saying this isnt a good place it is a great place, it isnt though a place to get widely known if that is your ambition, okay,
My point was for those who crave and or want to get their music beyond this point is do more then thinking it will just happen. alright I have done enough damage with my point of views,I am sure it will explode with reams and dumps of @#$@#, have a well hmmm awesome day, go write a song now that will set you apart and give us joy to see you succeed
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Stoneman
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11/11/2017 11:47:08 PM
Verity,
Yes, there is a smattering of other genres from time to time but the top 25 is almost always dominated by Pop and Rock. There is very seldom R&B or Hip-Hop and I have never seen a Reggae song there. There is no doubt in my mind that there is a bias towards the kind of music that seems to habitually dominate the list. Someone is choosing those songs and they like what they like. There's nothing wrong with that. I was just making the point that if you are a musician that does not do Rock or Pop your chance of being on the list are quite limited, stunted at best and impossible at worst. I think the list reflects the current attitude of the industry. People like what they like and they support what they like. Music industry people are just that, people. They have their own biases and quirks just like the rest of us. Such is the same here. I have invited many artists here and quite often the response was "I don't think I fit in with that crowd". One guy even mentioned the top 25 and said that his music probably would not go over well here. This, only because the list is not very diverse. he, is an R&B artist. There is an obvious slant there and anyone that denies that is not really reading the list. Also, this is not the first time i have brought this up. I have been saying it for years but there is seldom any change in that regard. Of course, there is a token or two thrown in from time to time but the overall slant of the list always remains the same. Rock, Pop, Singer songwriter, alternative Rock are the favored genres here. That is both historically and currently true. It is only natural to think that what you like is what everyone else will like. So, the list gets slanted towards your taste. Actually, that is what is happening at radio stations all over the world. Program directors are deciding what gets played according to their own likes and preferences. That's the way of the world. But, I would hope that we would strive to do something different. Something more fair and open to the entire music community. But I am just another voice crying in the wind. Its okay to ignore me or discount what I say. I am kind of use to that.
Much Respect,
Stoneman
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Bryon Tosoff
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11/12/2017 12:00:20 AM
pretty much with Stoneman on his recent point , although I am happy to be able to make and share my music here and if somebody digs i, great, although I have been featured more elsewhere since my style is basically instrumental,and on actual radio programs.i just had 22 downloads of my songs at radiosubmit and have had great success there the last 8 years.
as for requirements I see the uploads say you have more of a chance to get featured if you have lyrics when one uploads songs here, that is pretty limiting ,there are some amazing songs without lyrics, and incredible works if you ask me.
Just saying.
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Bryon Tosoff
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11/12/2017 12:27:48 AM
to be fair though I have had probably 3-4 songs on featured songs , over the last 10 years maybe. which is more then some here ever had , all I am suggesting that some of these instrumentals take as much effort and investment of time to score out as ones with lyrics. and the composers work hard to produce some pretty damn good listening music, sometimes it is good to have that, even on the Kayaks top 25. a break from lyrics could offer a nice change every so often
again, just saying
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Verity
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11/12/2017 2:28:28 AM
If a song is good enough i.e. well played, produced and performed then it stands a good chance of being featured, regardless of genre.
Having said that, many, many songs uploaded at IMP have these qualities so without featuring every new song there has to be a gatekeeper who tries to anticipate what will match the tastes of the majority I guess. This is why IMP have given us all the Station facility where WE can be the DJ and fill our space with the songs we want to represent our own taste.
Some of the songs I put on my Stations have never be on any other stations, probably never even been played and I think that's a shame when other songs I don't particularly like have multiple adds and rave reviews.
There is no better feeling than finding a sparkling diamond or delicate wild flower hidden below a mass of well trodden hard rock, thick mud and invasive weeds, digging it out and letting it shine.
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Bryon Tosoff
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11/12/2017 10:51:31 AM
True there on what you said Verity, although you are preaching to the choir, most of us, probably all know this what about production etc etc etc
What i am saying in regards to concur with Stoneman, there is not a wide enough cross section of other genre, it mostly stays in the pop and rock,( Kayak picks) with an interspersing of once in a blue other genre, now, when a ne artist comes along, I see their songs get on featured, thats good, but then there are the usual suspects up there a lot too and on the top 25.
For me, I get my kicks on the route 66 ,real radio, and it pays well per song play. so I must be doing something right. And everyone here should get their works on spotify deezer rhasody and so on, and then get someone who knows that biz to get your songs moving, cause that is the new radio streaming system.
like I also said, learn the Business of Music if you are really wanting to make good use of your songs and have those puppies bring you some clinking coin
just bloody saying ....as for IMP, great place, but not one to lay the way to getting noticed in the real world
bryon
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Bryon Tosoff
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11/12/2017 11:20:22 AM
most of us are here for fun, hey, here I am. bitching. lol. no just offering some insight. thanks for the opportunity to be here and to those who keep it online, pay the bills, work the place. keep the lights on, especially when the music places like this have shut down elsewhere, thats amazing. ok, I will stir the pot another time. thanks Francesca, we hijacked your wonderful thread again,
have a great sunday
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Stoneman
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11/15/2017 4:55:25 PM
Thanks for your input Bryon and Verity. Both have very good points to ponder. I am just hopeful that a more fair system will be put in place where all genres get a shot at being showcased in the Top 25. The blaring bias towards Rock and Pop is quite evident and may cause some artists in alternative genres like Reggae, Funk, Blues, Jazz, R&B, Hip-Hop etc. to shy away from this website and community. It's just an observation that I have talked about for many years now without any effect in regards to change. Its okay if you continue to ignore me. I'll still be here supporting this community as best I can.
Much Respect,
Stoneman
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11/15/2017 5:11:06 PM
Wasn't ignoring you, Stoneman. It's just an impossible argument because the more this gets put under a microscope, the more things get blown out of proportion. I was going to note that as far as R&B/soul goes, I feel Kayak has been fairly representative, there aren't that many songs that come in under that genre but a number of them have charted. We also do have the rare jazz song on the countdown currently. There's also a blues song by Rebecca Downes.
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Bob Balsley
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11/15/2017 8:12:52 PM
It's so hard when egos and personal perceptions are in play. What is the best song. Who is the best player writer whatever. Not a relevant question. I have honed my craft for years but that doesn't make me anything but a very competent musician. I can thrill you in a live performance or not. Please listen to each others music with an open mind and heart. And remember my music is always the best LOL
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