5/26/2009 4:39:04 PM
Replaced a Song

5/19/2009 5:17:42 PM
Chord Progressions

5/16/2009 1:55:52 AM
Song Structure

5/13/2009 5:03:36 PM
Censorship offends me.

5/13/2009 12:18:02 AM
IAC Mastering

5/13/2009 5:03:36 PM

Censorship offends me.
Censorship is only done by the guilty, insecure, and weak.

We can never be sure that the opinion we are endeavoring to stifle is a false opinion; and if we were sure, stifling it would be an evil still. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859


The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion. ~Henry Steele Commager


The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen. ~Tommy Smothers


Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime. ~Potter Stewart


We have a natural right to make use of our pens as of our tongue, at our peril, risk and hazard. ~Voltaire, Dictionnaire Philosophique, 1764


Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so, too. ~Voltaire


The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859


Books won't stay banned. They won't burn. Ideas won't go to jail. In the long run of history, the censor and the inquisitor have always lost. The only weapon against bad ideas is better ideas. ~Alfred Whitney Griswold, New York Times, 24 February 1959


To reject the word is to reject the human search. ~Max Lerner, 1953, on book purging


Nature knows no indecencies; man invents them. ~Mark Twain, Notebook, 1935


What progress we are making. In the Middle Ages they would have burned me. Now they are content with burning my books. ~Sigmund Freud, 1933


Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823


The paper burns, but the words fly away. ~Akiba ben Joseph


Did you ever hear anyone say, "That work had better be banned because I might read it and it might be very damaging to me?" ~Joseph Henry Jackson


Obscenity is not a quality inherent in a book or picture, but is solely and exclusively a contribution of the reading mind, and hence cannot be defined in terms of the qualities of a book or picture. ~Theodore Schroeder


Censorship feeds the dirty mind more than the four-letter word itself. ~Dick Cavett


The test of democracy is freedom of criticism. ~David Ben-Gurion


If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859


To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin


To limit the press is to insult a nation; to prohibit reading of certain books is to declare the inhabitants to be either fools or slaves. ~Claude-Adrien Helvétius


We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. ~John F. Kennedy


God forbid that any book should be banned. The practice is as indefensible as infanticide. ~Rebecca West


If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. ~Noam Chomsky


Take away the right to say "fuck" and you take away the right to say "fuck the government." ~Lenny Bruce


Every human being has a right to hear what other wise human beings have spoken to him. It is one of the Rights of Men; a very cruel injustice if you deny it to a man! ~Thomas Carlyle


Books won't stay banned -
Ideas won't go to jail.
~Alfred Whitney Griswold


You can cage the singer but not the song. ~Harry Belafonte, in International Herald Tribune, 3 October 1988


I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. ~Voltaire


The populist authoritarianism that is the downside of political correctness means that anyone, sometimes it seems like everyone, can proclaim their grief and have it acknowledged. The victim culture, every sufferer grasping for their own Holocaust, ensures that anyone who feels offended can call for moderation, for dilution, and in the end, as is all too often the case, for censorship. And censorship, that by-product of fear - stemming as it does not from some positive agenda, but from the desire to escape our own terrors and superstitions by imposing them on others - must surely be resisted. ~Jonathon Green, "Did You Say 'Offensive?'," as posted on wordwizard.com

5/13/2009 5:38:05 PM

Are you really this simple, to post a cut-and-paste like this on censorship ?

It's a very complicated issue, you insult the intelligence of the pipeline members.

5/13/2009 6:41:50 PM

Give him a break! At least he's saying something positive and letting his views be known, albeit with other people's words.

5/13/2009 7:05:40 PM ---- Updated 5/13/2009 7:08:38 PM

5/13/2009 7:18:32 PM

The old "no support issues" on the pipeline stikes again...

Although I understand the reasons behind it, it severely restricts the flow of informations and it just leaves people to speculate.

Sometimes "positive" open communication has merit....

5/13/2009 7:38:27 PM

No Censorship here at IAC that I have found, what is your point. Rather Vague other then all the quotes. What is your own personal opinion and basis for posting this here. Not quite sure what you are getting at. Censorship in General, personal experiences...Political other..

just wondering. not sure what you are after or point of this posting kinda cryptic

5/13/2009 7:41:04 PM

Laree,
He clarified he never received the master..... that question was cleared up on the original post.

I found the post, although it was not deleted it was banned from the pipeline and very hard to find. He received a reply, and it appears posting his concern got the issue addressed...

Not sure why you are showing animosity towards him, .....

5/13/2009 9:21:39 PM

I feel like I came in half way through this movie. WTF are you all talikin' about?

5/13/2009 9:23:59 PM

Richard said "I feel like I came in half way through this movie. WTF are you all talikin' about?"

we dont know , not a hell of a lot of it is understandable, we are all confused, that is why we are in the music business, we cant think, but we can make music and play

5/13/2009 11:11:40 PM

I never saw the original post but maintain that any anti-censorship rail that doesn't discuss context is basically silly and a waste of time. I can easily name 10 different examples of things that should be removed from a site like this one should they occur. Stating censorship is wrong is like a third grader's opinion.

5/13/2009 11:20:20 PM

I know nothing about what led to this post----and I don't really care----

but ----'The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion. ~Henry Steele Commager'

that is true!!

5/13/2009 11:24:31 PM ---- Updated 5/13/2009 11:30:04 PM

I am sensing anymosity from you as well Scott....

My guess is the censorship quotes are aimed at whoever took the post off the pipeline, no other context needed.

His original post was not disrespectful..... comparing him to a third grader is...


The pipeline is full of non-sequiter posts that make no sense, , I don't see where the offense lies.... ...

5/13/2009 11:38:32 PM ---- Updated 5/13/2009 11:38:32 PM

I'm not responding to a support issue which I didn't even see, I'm responding to the point he's making on this blog, which is senseless. If somebody posted 10 videos of bestiality here, and the mod removed them, would it make the mod guilty, insecure and weak ? Of course not, that's totally stupid.

I've been censored more myself than probably the rest of the pipeline posters here put together, it's always been a big issue of mine which is why it insults me when somebody posts some completely simplistic viewpoint on the subject.

5/14/2009 12:04:33 AM

If something is offensive, by all means delete the shit out of it... Beastiality and censorship are not similar....

At times, half the posts on the pipeline are "senseless'" , It was his blog and it made sense to him, and the person who read the original post and removed it from view.

5/14/2009 12:16:19 AM

Censorship is defined as "The control of what people read, write, see, or hear" Removing bestiality is censorship. Censorship isn't only performed by the guilty, insecure, or weak. I find his post senseless and of course have the right to say so. :)

5/14/2009 12:55:23 AM

Of course Beastiality can be censored, some censorship is called for and makes sense...

And yes it is subjective, if you find a sheep attractive you might be offended :)

5/14/2009 1:00:36 AM

Blogger, another angle on this is that you frame the issue with respect to how you feel about it. "Censorship offends" you, you say, and then you do a document dump of quotes which are apparently supposed to support your initial assertion that "Censorship is only done by the guilty, insecure, and weak." Still seeing the world as all black and white?

You ordered mastering. We notified you that there was a backlog. You didn't get the email and so you posted your support topic here and it got removed from the Pipeline, not because of censorship but because the Pipeline is not for support topics. All communities must have rules and that is one of ours. Without rules there is no community.

Your topic got moved to your home page and your feelings were hurt and you posted this elitist, self-indulgent topic. Dumb topic but totally within the rules. Enjoy, everyone. Ramble on...

5/14/2009 1:57:38 AM

I could, at this point, post my dog story again. But it would appear the majority would support censoring it.

:D

5/14/2009 2:10:46 PM

I read the quotes and it NEVER occured to me that it was about the forum mods until FT jumped in. That's the problem with censorship. You make what you're hiding that much bigger and it makes people want to check it out.

If I were to paraphrase all of the quotes, they say "censorship sux". Must have been a hell of a 3rd grade class with Voltaire, Chomsky, Bruce, et al...

As ill advised as the original post might have been it was answered and it looked like the case was closed. Trying to hide it made it more visible I think.

5/14/2009 2:19:24 PM

Slywitt, as I said, I didn't even see the original post. I reiterate that and swear on the life of my hero Neil Young that this is so. I find it bizarre that you don't think I could have my own opinions about censorship outside of IAC functions. It pisses me off, actually. Some people seemingly can't view me as an artist or a person because of my involvement with this site and that's a frustrating place to be in when you have your own songs and opinions as I do. I wasn't a mind of hiding anything, I just found the post shallow as hell. Anybody can google quotations about censorship and cut and paste. Censorship is a hugely complex subject matter and in the very first sentence of his bs he was casting aspersions on anyone who ever removed a blog or comment from a page or forum in the most blanket fashion.

5/14/2009 2:41:34 PM ---- Updated 5/14/2009 2:45:28 PM

5/14/2009 2:44:54 PM ---- Updated 5/14/2009 2:47:14 PM

FT said
"Some people seemingly can't view me as an artist or a person because of my involvement with this site and that's a frustrating place to be in when you have your own songs and opinions as I do"

FT
I think most of us appreciate you as an artist and creative force here...although it is discouraging when it comes across from some who may not know your history here at IAC and in other music arena's.

I commiserate with you and understand your frustrations completely

I have stepped on stage in the past (years ago) and people thought that I wasn't actually singing and playing in one of my bands when I first started out, they thought it was a recording and were surprised that I could not only play well but sing too, not that I am great at it, adequate is more like it. Then when I play them some songs and recordings their jaws drop as though , you cant do that kinda of stuff. now that is a piss off.!!!

Sometimes people are ignorant and some are arrogant and condescending in underestimating our human potential and latent abilities that we have developed.

Sometimes I think that just because I have been in the behind the scenes that people assume you are "just" a agent or manager and dont have musical qualities.

I think it is due to both of us being in positions of management and being so damn multi-faceted and good at what we do in so many capacities, those type of people are gifted and geniuses, kinda arrogant in saying this, but it is true.

So we are fortunate to being skilled and talented in the creative sense as musicians and at the same time having good business sense not too many musicians can pull that off ,

So in closing you are like the prophet without honor in his own land, that being IAC

hope this makes some kinda sense, because it seems to have drifted away from the original post.....but I just had to get this off my mind, because it bothers me when some people just dont get it!

bryon

5/14/2009 2:54:10 PM

// So in closing you are like the prophet without honor in his own land, that being IAC //


Yes, Bryon, your post hit the spot. In fact I just composed a thorough blog about the subject because it's on my mind a lot, but then I decided not to post it cause I knew it would come out as being about me and not about the issue I was raising, which is being pigeonholed by others.

5/14/2009 3:06:21 PM

FT Said "Yes, Bryon, your post hit the spot"

That is what I am good at FT.

I try to be an advocate of musicians as you have being for years and years which some dont know......obviously

I hate it when people dont appreciate others talents or maybe not understand who you really are as a creative and talented person so had to jump in the fray

I got to move on to getting work done that is it for the day.

maybe

5/14/2009 3:55:43 PM ---- Updated 5/14/2009 4:13:49 PM

Reading back in the thread I see that it wasn't FT who made reference to the mods and the other blog post but someone responding to FT so sorry for misrepresenting what FT did.

Actually I didn't know that FT was a part of the site. I've only been around for a couple of months and I think of him as part of colored vinyl. Until a few minutes ago, I ONLY thought of him as an artist and a musician.

If I'm reading his old blog entries correctly, FT used to be affiliated with the site but isn't anymore?

Whatever... I like FT's music, went to his online release party, have planned on buying a CD when I get some cash. I have no quarrel with him or anyone else, for that matter.

Yeh, cut and paste stuff is lame but I see it here all the time. I just didn't understand why this particular post was met with such a reaction and I certainly didn't mean to offend FT or anyone else.

I was just trying to make the point that censorship makes people want to dig deeper and find out what's going on. I think my point has been proven.

5/14/2009 4:01:18 PM ---- Updated 5/14/2009 4:05:36 PM

RAMBLE on, said Master Bam Singh .... wELL aLLrighTEE tHEn !!!

GREAT thought provoking post. Even if it was originally generated by a massive dose of famous thinker's quotes throughout history against censorship.

BUT -my favorite part, that made me laugh out loud, was the following:

"Richard said "I feel like I came in half way through this movie. WTF are you all talikin' about?"

Mr. Tosoff said in response
"we dont know , not a hell of a lot of it is understandable, we are all confused, that is why we are in the music business, we cant think, but we can make music and play..."

Bweeee heeee heeeh heh. So true sometimes, eh?

5/14/2009 4:15:22 PM ---- Updated 5/14/2009 4:23:51 PM

Hey Phlegm
most times I am just wanting to make music then work
like Bachman said in TCB "we love to work at nothin all day.."

.it is kinda that way some times.it is like fishing when you are in the zone of music making, like sitting by a lake and relaxing

. this slave mentality we have towards work is so lame at times, a necessary evil .

lets move out to the country and live in our vans or build a little shack by the river, strum a guitar or uke....plant some seeds grow a garden kick back . I think we were never meant to live like this. is it really normal. or is the abnormal become normal
are we the inmates in a prison.. what the hell am I talking about?
huh!?!
where am I ?
who am I
where am I going
how am I going to get there

I need some coffee

5/14/2009 5:10:26 PM

Here's my puny, insignificant thoughts on the matter...

1. It's kind of funny to me to see so many deleted posts on a blog about censorship. Am I the only one seeing the irony in that?

2. FT, you are right. It's a shallow, simple post with no substance. Which is why you should have blown it off because you have bigger fish to fry, right?

5/14/2009 5:15:54 PM

Jesse. somehow on one post I did it doubled up so I deleted one of them

But this really turned out to be an important blog...it challenges one to respond to some interesting thoughts and ideas and if something resonates with an individual then it is worth staying up here

5/14/2009 5:18:52 PM

I'm not going to argue the matter, but I find it a stretch to deem any blog as "important". The sun is important... water is important. Blogs? They are subjective.

5/14/2009 5:22:14 PM ---- Updated 5/14/2009 5:27:35 PM

hahaha. your response was good Jesse

I am with ya, but a good crap is important too!

5/14/2009 5:25:18 PM

"I'm not going to argue the matter, but I find it a stretch to deem any blog as "important". The sun is important... water is important. Blogs? They are subjective."

On the contrare .... The written word is very important ... It's fodder for the brain ... :)

5/14/2009 6:17:12 PM

I thought it was odd what you were saying, Slywitt, I feel better that you weren't coming from the angle it appeared. heh

Yeah I'm still administrator here, and I'll always be co-founder.

5/14/2009 6:55:58 PM ---- Updated 5/14/2009 6:59:03 PM

I am glad you clarified that Scott, I was not sure what your functions were at IAC anymore. I was confused when you made mention of deleting a post that you did not start awhile back, and my first thought was "How the hell can he do that'?

I knew you were connected to IAC, but you said you were leaving your duties to concentrate on your music.

As an administrator concerned with the content of the Pipeline, I can undestand why you took offense with the term "weak". You do need to delete posts now and again.

I just thought this one was not a big deal, and frankly it does get a little frustrating that we cannot get some answers on support issues and the overall functioning of the site when warranted. Sometimes we are all wondering the same thing.For example, we had no notice that the site would be down for a full day on Friday...at least I did not. Another example.... I still am not sure how often stats are updated...etc....

As for writing support, sometimes responses are not forthcoming in a timely manner.... thats not a dig, It is understandable. I think they are doing a great job but they can only do so much. Sometimes "Mass" communication flat out makes sense. As for mass e-mail communication, I get 100 messages a day, it's easy for messages to get deleted or not read... so, the Pipeline, "at times" is a good place to communicate. I check it every day..... (Yes I like it here :).

I believe sometimes, support questions can be asked answered quickly for all to see, often times we all have the same questions.... if they are in danger of clogging the pipeline, then it can be addressed. I don;t think "support" issues once in awhile will detract from the site, there are alot of moving parts...It is understandable some may have questions, it's not reflective how the site is run.

For this issue, the blogger was answered professionally, If the blog was left up it would have served a purpose... primarily that IAC is responsive and there are people who care. Removing it created "this" :)

If it was allowed to stand, then it would have dropped off the page rather quickly....but we would have seen it, and those still waiting for mastering services would have their concerns addressed as well. The cat was out of the bag, I saw the original post, but I never saw IAC;'s answer. I was specifically looking for it as I was interested in the response. It was evident it had been removed from the pipeline, and I admit, it bothered me.

Again, I understand the reason for not allowing support issues, you do not want to turn the pipeline into a bitchfest...however, there should be some leeway at times when a legit concern is raised. Especially when the issue may affect many people.

Regards,

Jeff

5/14/2009 7:10:03 PM

Jeff, good clarity to your response. I like how you divide it up and space the thought processes and points. It makes for an easy read rather then a big turd of a post

5/14/2009 7:25:50 PM

Just because I said I'm an administrator doesn't mean when I appear on the pipeline, I'm here for business. Toby has covered the issue about support tickets on the pipeline enough times and nothing's really changed from that, if you make exceptions soon IAC listeners can count on reading every other topic about some site problem. I don't really want to debate it but my interest in this blog was simply how silly it is to make such broad simple statements about censorship. I suppose if I had been smarter I would've guessed that the blogger was bitching about some post that got moved by the moderator and stayed out of it even though I had an opinion on the subject.

5/14/2009 7:28:06 PM

Jeff says As for writing support, sometimes responses are not forthcoming in a timely manner....

Or at all, as is the case with the last 3 emails I've sent to support over the last year.

Not unreasonable to get SOME response so show some semblence of professionality. "hey we're looking at it, we'll get back to you" ANYTHING. Instead of tumbleweeds in the wind.

However I will add your "thats not a dig, It is understandable." quote as not to be crucified on this board. How DARE I say...

Yay IAC!!!

5/14/2009 7:32:41 PM

I hate slippery slope arguements,........ They really are paralyzing.

I did not think anything would change, just expressing an opinion...

Peace...

5/14/2009 7:42:00 PM

Saphire, sorry about that, I just did a search for your emails. One of them was marked with a star to look into but I guess it was misplaced. Another was more of a comment and didn't seem like it required an answer. I followed up on the first, should have an answer for you soon.

It is a slippery slope, Jeff. Since this blog was allowed to stay on the pipeline it's now turning into a support blog.

5/14/2009 7:44:37 PM ---- Updated 5/14/2009 7:44:52 PM

I do believe people that say that they have problem with support ... but find it puzzling .... ???

I have probably contacted support ... oh ... maybe 10 times in the last few years ... and sometimes (mostly) I felt pretty stupid after the issue I had was from my own ignorance of how something worked ...

but ... I have ALWAYS got a fast, courteous and Enlightening response ... maybe I'm just lucky but I think these guys/gals do a tremendous job ....

5/14/2009 7:46:03 PM

I know that I'm very tired of having every mother fudgesicle thing I say gets freezing axed by the auto word censors.

Shell, it is really freezing annoying to carefully craft a freezing reply to a stupid ask poster, only to have the auto word censors turn a freezing amazing post into something completely unintelligible, sort of like this freezing thread.

Shell, I might as well take everything I write, ball it up and throw it in the ship can.

:D

K-

5/14/2009 7:46:38 PM

Same. iac support rocks.

5/14/2009 7:54:35 PM

Ok Kevin said this "I know that I'm very tired of having every mother fudgesicle thing I say gets freezing axed by the auto word censors."

huh

5/14/2009 7:57:37 PM

lol ...

There are auto word censors on other sites, B ... where if you curse, it changes the word to something non-offensive.

IAC doesn't do that. I was kidding.

We can be as vulgar as we so please.

:^D

K-

5/14/2009 8:02:10 PM

ok. I was trying to figure out what the hell is he talking about

lets blow this thread up.

5/14/2009 8:13:55 PM

My first message was not asking for support and was not directed in a disrespectful way. My reason for posting was to let other musicians know what might happen if they try and use the Mastering Service. Again it was not a support question and in no way or means was it rude.

Let me clarify some things: I do not have any hostility or disregard towards or against anybody from IAC. On the contrary I have nothing but respect and thankfulness for them and what they do. I understand mistakes happen and I received my refund very promptly. I just wish I could have got the Missing Message. If I had got it I would not have asked for a refund and I would have been happy to wait.

I posted the Censorship to make a “none directed” yet valid statement that could be informative but not disrespectful. I did state my opinion on the matter in very short words at the beginning. I think that is all I needed to say. The “Words Dressed in Quotations” was food for thought for the rest of the readers.

As far as the 3rd grader remark all I have to say is “I read it” but nothing more.

I am glad to see that there has been some open discussion about censorship as that was the duel edge purpose of writing. Of course the other meaning was to address my first post being titled “Support Topic” and hidden from main Stage (if you will.)

In other words “Mistakes happen, refunds are quick as hell, 3rd graders or dumb, I have no animosity, Censorship Offends, and Cut-n-Paste Offends.”

5/14/2009 10:11:33 PM

WOAH --- diggin' much of this thread..... LOADS of funny stuff too.... like people censoring their own comments, right in the thread here!

uh.... but F.T., I knew you had a vested interest in IAC; but actually didn't realize you were CO-founder!

Congrats on the site that has kept my music goin' in hard times....KUDOS F.T. for the beauty of this music community & music distribution site. Just had to let you know, now that I KNOW, that you're more than just an artist & administrator.....

5/14/2009 11:12:49 PM ---- Updated 5/15/2009 12:16:54 AM

I do know most of the principals at IAC(from afar at least) and I must say that you won't find a more dedicated and hardworking group of people at any other music site anywhere! Do these guys ever screw up? Sure, plenty of times like the rest of us have too, but they have learned well from their mistakes and are always trying to better things here I firmly believe. Do these guys make money from this? Hell no, they pay out money every month on top of what they make from IAC to keep it going and keep GOOD music alive for them, for you, and for me. Scott S. has been for many years one of the hardest working people on the Indie music scene dating back to as long as I've seen music online, and unfortunately he has probably caught quite a bit more shit than flowers over the years. I love this site and all the incredible flavors of music one can find here. This place replaced my radio and cd players years ago. Anyway, I don't blame anyone at IAC for being overly sensitive about criticism on the front page, when they have never had any mal intent of screwing anyone over. A lot of times there just aren't enough hands to grab onto all the problems is what I bet lies at the heart of this whole misunderstanding. I hardly ever post here but I'm not some anon dishing out kisses and punches from afar whenever I feel like it. I'd rather not have a personal identity here other than to admit I am a old friend of Pete Townshend and Keith Moon and I sure wish Keith were alive today to hear all the cool tunes on this site. Long live IAC and long live all the thousands of cool artists here which make this whole wheel turn!

5/14/2009 11:19:56 PM

It's all good Dr, I appreciate the post..

I also appreciate IAC, and all the work done behind the scenes...I wanted to make that perfectly clear!

Regards,

Jeff

5/15/2009 12:18:26 AM

Hi ...

I wandered here after googling "censor", and just found the longest thread about it on the web.

I just wish it all made more sense.

That aside, I thought IAC stood for "International Academy of Coupons" and I'd sooo love if they introduced a coupon section for starving artists.

I buy a lot of cat food, (for the cats -- I'm not THAT starving) so I'd be truly interested in that type of coupon.

Oh, and serve more coffee.

Other than that, IAC is GREAT!!!!

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