UK BANDS SAVE YOUR LIVE SOUND!! by Maria Daines on The Pipeline at IndieMusicPeople

UK BANDS SAVE YOUR LIVE SOUND!!
Dear all,

sorry haven't been here much lately, had a million things to catch up on and I haven't had time to see if this has already been posted but I think it's important enough to blast through the blog twice anyway! This has been sent to me from several musician friends and I'm glad to see it's circulating, as with all these new freedom inhibiting laws that the government sees fit to drop on us from all directions, this one is another in a long line of 'ONE TOO MANY'!! So if you are a UK band please don't pass this one by, sign and forward, it may do some good and it may not but we have to try don't we! ROCK N' ROLL IS WORTH SAVING!!

Bye for now, Maria & Paul xxxxx

For those of you who are passionate about music....

Government meddlers trying to kill off live music, AGAIN!
Another piece of proposed legislation that will adversely affect live music in the UK:

It has been brought to attention that the government wish to consider it a legal requirement in the new tax year to introduce laws insisting anyone applying or re-applying for an entertainment license must have a noise control device fitted (NOISE LIMITER) to the venue. This will be the final NAIL for ALL entertainment in the UK as the level at which these devices CUT you off is dreadfully low and damaging, especially to warmed up valve amps!

PLEASE DO NOT INTRODUCE THIS LAW, WE LOVE LIVE MUSIC!

PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION HERE:

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/NoNoiseControl/

Please sign and forward to everyone who loves live music in the UK!!

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The CODE

1/17/2009 6:26:07 PM ---- Updated 1/17/2009 6:26:50 PM

Another brick in the wall??? Won't be able to carry Guitar cases in the street
soon - Leave it OUT!

Link to the info:

Turn it UP-Not Down!

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Nigels

1/17/2009 7:07:30 PM

Maria is right on the money here.

The same thing happened here in Adelaide, due to high petrol prices and the total lack of adequate alternative or public transport everyone moved into the city to live and petitioned the city council to introduce the same noise restriction laws.
This happened a few years ago and most of the smaller independent live venues closed down. You can still go to the big concerts in the concert hall but the pub scene was decimated.
Thankfully this is not true in all Aus city's.

The collapse of the music scene had economic consequences for the eating places , bars and clubs people would go to after closing time. The night life in the city of Adelaide is dead. You can walk around the city centre on a Saturday night and there is no one their except of course in the Red Light district which despite the laws just keeps on doing its thing which thank to the occasional insane truck drivers on acid includes fatal shootings stabbings and bombings, so it seems the independent live music scene is an easy target.

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The Man With No Band

1/17/2009 7:22:24 PM

"Your government sucks shit."

Don't kid yourself Larree ... it'll come here too ...

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SILVERWOODSTUDIO

1/17/2009 8:46:23 PM

this is already here in our town----no "live music" even open mikes are too loud

the noise police close 'em down at 90 decibels

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Bryon Tosoff

1/17/2009 11:06:22 PM ---- Updated 1/17/2009 11:12:59 PM

This is an interesting subject ,here is some Info about it at
lime technologies

some partial Quotes from the above site says as follows :

"Most local authorities and environmental health officers require the installation of an electronic noise limiter in village halls, pubs, bars, clubs, restaurants, health clubs and other entertainment venues to minimise complaints regarding noise pollution."

"As from April 2008 entertainment venues have to comply with The Control of Noise at Work Regulations to ensure that workers hearing is protected.

PLEASE NOTE: Legislation provides that as from 1 October 2006, local authorities are able to issue fixed penalty notices in the region of £500 to the person in charge of the premises at the time of any noise complaint. This could be the license holder, manager or any other employee. This is in addition to their existing powers to serve noise abatement notices and review premises licenses".

end quotes

Bryon

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Susan Raven

1/18/2009 3:19:51 AM

Signed up and passed it on... thanks for the alert!

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Conversation Suicide

1/18/2009 3:23:57 AM ---- Updated 1/18/2009 6:30:05 AM

WOW. This is REALLY rough news for bands that like to play it LOUD & PROUD!

Like Bradley Knoll of Sublime said, " We LIke the music loud in this here band.
We get the bass line thumping loud as we can stand..."

I guess we should remember to be thankful each and every time we get to play a LOUD & LIVE show in the future! This same type of thing is happening here & there, to the smaller clubs in my Town too. Especially for areas ZONED differently. It's another way that the MAINSTREAM & conservatives can control music. I say this because, the worst case scenario is that ONLY corporate backed/mainstream bands that play in the BIG clubs will be able to be loud; or at least that could be ONE eventual outcome. Scary.

This is one of the reasons I've been incredulous that our little ARTFEST Haus of Music & Art is so unmolested by the police & such thus far. It's a trend that I hope we can continue through 2009 with MORE Loud Live shows, with 3-4 acts per show, in our humble residential abode.

DAMN. I've just gotta say it again Had a real rough couple of weeks, and hearing stuff like this reminds ya to be THANKFUL for the LOUD rockin' music & freedom you currently DO have!

-pHLeGm

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Maria Daines

1/18/2009 11:50:22 AM

Hi all,

thanks so much for your input and interesting thoughts & facts, I just cannot understand why those in charge of the rest of us always seem to pick on artistic, cultural and fun pastimes to kill off! We have a serious knife crime problem in the UK with our younger generation and I can think of nothing better than kids getting involved with learning to play an instrument and joining a band to help them stay out of trouble, music inspires and creativity could even save lives! So I'd say the government has picked the worst time to finish off live music at grass roots level. A lot of people in the UK believe we are being turned into a nanny state and I agree but if we become so submissive that we no longer protest then we get what's coming to us, we should be as persistent in saying no as government is persistent in saying yes to their petty law making agenda. Have they nothing better to do with their time and taxpayers money?

Thanks for signing Susan & thanks for your input Code, Larree I love your style!!!!!!! :) It's good to read what's happening in other countries even if we're pretty much in the same boat. LONG LIVE ROCK N' ROLL!!!!!!!! I think they've been trying to get rid of loud live music since the fifties but it refuses to die the death, yaaaaa!!

Tommy thanks so much for your fantastic invitation, smiling our heads off here :):) We're a 4 piece live and if there's any way we can make it we would love to, I'll check it out now!

Catch up soon, best wishes
Maria & Paul xxxxxx

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Paul groover

1/18/2009 12:21:47 PM ---- Updated 1/18/2009 6:09:23 PM

How Petty can you be i just checked out what 90db is
* Near total silence - 0 dB
* A whisper - 15 dB
* Normal conversation - 60 dB
* A lawnmower - 90 dB
* A car horn - 110 dB
* A rock concert or a jet engine - 120 dB
* A gunshot or firecracker - 140 dB.

So they want live music the same loudness as a lawnmower what planet do these people live on because it ain,t mine or anyone i know. it,s alright for them to damage everyone,s hearing and lives in Gaza, Baghdad or Afghanistan. With there bombs and guns. It seems they do not want us congregating together because unity is there biggest fear. When are we going to wake up and stop listening to these criminals because that,s all they are you know that already. Music won,t stop it will just drive it underground i say fuck them and there laws. Search out this (how i screwed every cash confiscatory) quite interesting....

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Paul groover

1/18/2009 3:47:11 PM

I would be up for that Larree

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Paul groover

1/18/2009 6:13:11 PM

Everybody should write to there favourite artists and ask what is your opinion on this matter where is your support why have you not stood up and said something

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Maria Daines

1/19/2009 9:36:50 AM

WOW!! Thank you Larree & Paul for your fantastic input, Larree I wish you lived in the UK!!!!!!! You're a ROCK N' ROLL force to be reckoned with, talk about guts and fire, you have the spirit of freedom which is what rock n' roll is all about, I'm going to look further into this and see if there are any big names signing the petition, probably not I would guess, but we need those names to get the ball rolling and get some media response (trouble is it probably won't affect big name bands if they are playing stadium & arena gigs, it will affect millions of other bands who are not though!) I think the musician protest is a great idea and that would certainly get some press, especially if it was outside number 10!!!!!!!!!! :)

p.s. Paul I agree with your words about government not wanting people to gather in any numbers, they really want us all sitting in our living rooms watching the TV and accepting everything they feed us, it's important not to be dumbed down on every level.

Bye for now
Maria xx

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Conversation Suicide

1/19/2009 11:09:10 AM

Hey Larree -- great posts here --- and GREAT new LIVE station that you've put up in Solidarity for LOUD Live Musical freedom! Thanks for including us.

You really do ROCK, man. -pHLeGm

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SILVERWOODSTUDIO

1/19/2009 12:10:25 PM

hey-----i thought it was yours also---my bad!

But it's just what we expect from you Larree---loud and proud!

Paul---I agree ---a singer songwriter can clock 90 Db through a reasonable PA with no danger to anyones hearing----------- wtf!!

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Conversation Suicide

1/19/2009 12:28:43 PM

NICE to have a subject we all agree on! Shit, Silverwood -- I can clock around 90 Db by singin' WITHOUT amplification......
FUCK the GOVERNMENT..... this is NOT a good time for indie music to be pushed further underground -- ART needs a voice NOW more than ever, in MY opinion.... Just look at the post started by Chris of Data Thieves...

We need to FIGHT hard so this SOUND-police thingee doesn't happen in the UK, or anywhere for that matter.

What happened to that IAC petition of Artists for LOUD & LIVE idea?

-pHLeGm

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Paul groover

1/19/2009 6:25:08 PM

This law bans bagpipes can,t have that

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Jeff Allen Myers

1/19/2009 8:08:14 PM

"Remember the Beatles in Let It Be? The rooftop jam? "

Yes I do, The Cops broke it up because people complained about the noise... Can you fricken believe that??? Makes it easier to believe this nonsense.

Jeff

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Maria Daines

1/20/2009 4:34:15 AM

Fantastic posts here everyone, just wanted to drop by to say I'm loving reading every defiant word of your wit & wisdom, but have to dash, back later, keep on ROCKIN!!!!!!!!

Maria :)

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Paul groover

1/20/2009 4:55:11 AM

I started a new station EU hates live music added tracks from all the people here and few others could do with some more though. You have to remember that this an EU directive it affects the whole of europe not just the UK. I did some background research this is affecting orchestra,s,pipe bands even scout bands. I disagree with any law that denies a basic freedom of choice in the name of safety when they start leveling this sort of control where will it end

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The CODE

1/20/2009 6:04:17 AM

Thanks for the add Paul! YEAH - TURN IT UP!

We have some live gigs coming up, so will spread
the message further to the listeners - They should
also have their say!

ROCK ON>>>

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Maria Daines

1/21/2009 2:15:01 PM

Fantastic Paul & huge thumbsup to Tommy!!!! To the guys in The Code thanks for sharing it live & loud & Larree I have to say you are one of the coolest guys on the planet, the planet ROCK!!!!!

Cheers everyone & I hope UK bands are signing the petition big time :)

Maria xx

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Beth Fridinger

1/21/2009 11:15:11 PM

that is terrible. well for street musicians here they say 85 decibels at 25 feet and that's just playing the street. I think that is just awful what they are doing to live music. Music is a wonderful thing and they are destroying it. People need to get out petitions and write to the folks who passed this sick laws and change it.

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Maria Daines

1/22/2009 5:55:58 AM

Too right Beth, thanks for your comment, this is something that will affect almost every band in the UK in the future and will render some towns a live music wasteland, and the rubbish about protecting the nations hearing, well I've heard some limp excuses but this one tops them all! And what about free choice? If we want to go out and listen to a band that we know is really loud should that not be our decision? This government will surely be remembered for being the biggest killjoys ever, I can't see what else they will be remembered for, I hope the next election in UK will bring some hope for positive change as in America right now, because if we have another few years of Gordon's boring ministrations we may as well roll over & play dead!

Maria xx

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Susan Raven

1/22/2009 9:25:13 AM

It's over 78,000 now... but in case anyone else missed it, tomorrow is the last day!!!!

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Andy Broad

1/22/2009 10:41:05 AM

We may have been had by a hoax!

I recieved this from a reputable source a short while ago...

The rumours on which the petition probably started (early 2008) coincide
with the end of a 2-year moratorium of enforcement of Noise at Work
regulations in the entertainment sector. But the HSE confirmed that even
under that legislation noise limiters cannot be enforced.

Hamish writes:

|How badly does the government treat live music? Here's a quick test.
One of the two statements below is false. Which one?

1. The government has made it a potential criminal offence merely to have a
piano in a bar for the public to play.
2. The government is planning new law requiring all music venues to fit
noise limiting devices.

Answer: Statement 2.

But this has not stopped a petition based on statement 2 above shooting into

the top 10 on the Number 10 website with nearly 20,000 signatures: (At
number 1 with 78,556 at 1700 hours on 22nd January 2009! DB)
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk:80/NoNoiseControl/

Yesterday (13th January 2009) the Department for the Environment, Food and
Rural affairs (DEFRA), responsible for noise legislation, denied any such
plan. And, a few days earlier, when I spoke to the petitioner, Warren
James, a professional guitarist based in Coventry (
http://www.musofinder.co.uk/warrenjames/86409 ) he was unable to recall
where he had heard about this new legislation.

While musicians sympathise with Warren's feeling about noise limiters, the
petition text reveals a fundamental lack of knowledge about existing law.

For many years, using entertainment licensing, local authorities have had
the power to require venues to fit noise limiters. This continues under the
present regime. So the government doesn't need to introduce a new law.

But under the current legislation it would be potentially unlawful for local
authorities to impose a blanket requirement that all venues fit noise
limiters, or to impose unnecessary or disproportionate conditions.
Government licensing guidance implies that noise limiters may fall into the
latter category (see p22, para 2.34, Licensing Guidance issued under s182
of the Licensing Act 2003 download PDF from DCMS website:
http://www.culture.gov.uk/reference_library/publications/3667.aspx )

Some local authorities may have abused their powers in this regard, however,
enforcing noise limiters where they know licensees cannot afford to
challenge them through the courts. It is worth campaigning against that,
although in many ways that is already being done within the broader campaign
to get small gigs out of the entertainment licensing regime altogether.
The government has promised a public consultation on new exemptions for
small
gigs by the Spring.

And then today I received an e-mail from Richard Pavitt of the Bishops Blues
Club & Nugene Records which read as follows:

My thanks to Martin Smith (a music-loving Environmental Health Officer) for
bringing the following report to my attention. Whoever started the rumour
and created the petition was presumably well intentioned. It goes to show
how powerful the internet can be in mobilising people, even if it is
mistaken.

There is an interesting passing reference at the end of this report to a
campaign to get small gigs removed from the entertainment licensing regime.

Taken from NME.COM
NME REPORT "PETITION DRIVEN BY HOAX"

Fears that the UK government is about to impose nationwide noise
restrictions at gigs appear to be driven by a hoax, NME.COM has learned.

Currently, one of the most signed petitions on the official Number 10
website relates to the government's alleged plans to introduce noise control
measures at gigs and festivals.

The Facebook-initiated campaign urges music fans not to "Let the government
cripple live music". However, it does not identify the source of the threat
or any potential new legislation.

A spokesperson for the Department Of Media, Culture And Sport told NME.COM,
that while they were unable to speak for the government as a whole, there is
currently "no universal plan to fit noise control devices, or any plans at
all to fit them in the way described [by the petition]".

Meanwhile it has been pointed out by the Live Music Forum that there is no
need to pass such a law as "local authorities have had the power to require
venues to fit noise limiters" already.

They add: "Some local authorities may have abused their powers in this
regard, however, enforcing noise limiters where they know licensees cannot
afford to challenge them through the courts.

"It is worth campaigning against that, although in many ways that is already
being done within the broader campaign to get small gigs out of the
entertainment licensing regime altogether. The government has promised a
public consultation on new exemptions for small gigs by the Spring."

I signed said petition and i can't do any harm, but still ...

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Maria Daines

1/23/2009 7:15:25 PM

Thanks big time for the info Andy & if it is a hoax one good thing has come of it, that I think the British government may now realise by weight of signatures on the petition that the message from UK musicians is hands off our live music full stop!!

Cheers to all for your mighty unity & once again let's ROCK!!!!!!!

Love from Maria :) xx

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Conversation Suicide

1/23/2009 8:00:24 PM

Ms. Daines -- great post, as you already know --- and that BLUE MEANIES station is AWESOME! Is there still time left for people to sign the petition?

Assuming there's still time:
FOLKS who haven't, and have some Legal connection to the UK, PLEASE sign it..... If you go to the BLUE MEANIES Radio Station on KIAC above, it has a link to the petition and tells how to sign it; there are some exceptions that cover folks who are in the armed forces, or have other legitimate connections to the UK, so please -- Everybody who MIGHT possibly have those connections 0--- Check it out. Your signature WILL make a difference.

Nice work everybody on coming together for fighting this important loss of freedom in LIVE & LOUD music.

If it happens in the UK, everywhere else will be NEXT.

-pHLeGm

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Maria Daines

1/24/2009 5:54:25 AM

Fantastic pHLeGm!! And guys I just saw the Blue Meanies station!! WOW! :) Very cool, be back later to leave a comment of thanks there, got to dash dogs needing walks, huge respect to you all, Maria xxxx

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