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Pulse Eternal
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11/22/2009 11:56:30 AM
---- Updated 10/14/2023 3:18:31 AM
Who else here loves the WARMTH and FULLNESS of analog tape? - This is Strange!
There's no denying analog tape has a warmth and fullness when pushed to just the right level. The sound is BIG, WARM, and FAT so, for this particular track, I used good old open reel multitrack tape and pushed the meters nicely into the red zone!!!
What better way to record over driven guitars and rock drums!
Just to make things more intriguing though, this song features some "Strange" orchestral arrangements, tribal drums (at the end) and didgeridoo.... all recorded on lovely, WARM Ampex 456 analog tape (toasted marshmallows anyone?!!) :-)
If you have a fondness for the warmth of analog, tell everyone about it here.
While you are contemplating those thoughts, have a click on the link below and check out "Strange".....
Strange - Click to open player
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Vincenzo Pandolfi
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11/22/2009 7:37:59 PM
I absolutely agree,
I have a very old reel to reel Cross Field Akai. I don't think it is my imagination, if I take any CD and copy it to tape, it sounds amazingly better when I play it back from the tape. Is that possible, or are my ears playing tricks on me....Is it the tape, the valves, what??
Ciao,
Vincenzo
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Pulse Eternal
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11/25/2009 12:34:57 PM
---- Updated 11/25/2009 12:38:00 PM
Very cool Vincenzo. Those old Akai's are awesome.
The combination of tape saturation and valves can produce some very musically pleasing second order harmonics when pushed a little so I am not surprised by your account at all :-)
My highschool music studio had an Akai deck too and it was a great machine. I think, from memory, it was one of the GX series with the glass crystal heads. I used to use that as the stereo mixdown deck in combination with a Studiomaster four track and had oodles of fun combining that with the bleeps, blips and squeaks from the Roland Juno 6 we had (I still own a Juno 6 and use it in many of my songs) and an RE201 Space Echo.
Memories...... !!! lol
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Vincenzo Pandolfi
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11/26/2009 1:33:58 AM
Do you think I could retain any of the sound qualities if I passed from my Mac to the Akai deck and then back to the Mac?? It may come useful if I need a 60/70s sound.
Ciao,
Vincenzo
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Pulse Eternal
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11/29/2009 9:19:26 AM
---- Updated 11/29/2009 9:30:32 AM
That could certainly be useful for certain instruments Vincenzo. You could use your Akai as a hardware 'plugin'. Nothing like the real thing :-)
Even without recording anything to tape, you could still run certain instruments through the Akai before going into your Mac to get some 'tube warmth' from it.
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Vincenzo Pandolfi
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12/2/2009 6:31:16 AM
Thanks!!
I had not thought of doing that. I will try it when I record my next song...
Vincenzo
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Two Silo Complex
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12/2/2009 12:16:38 PM
Vince
If you take tape and convert back to digital you will loose the "warmth"
The problem is that the a/d converters see this as noise and remove it.
There is no such thing as analog warmth it is a perception created by the headroom of anaolg. It can also be created by tubes if these are used.
1 inch-2 inch tape has this "quality" but I have not noticed it in 1/2 inch tape.
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Vincenzo Pandolfi
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12/2/2009 3:53:23 PM
Thanks....pity though....I liked it when you could go from analogue straight to vinyl...
There is something cold about all digital...may be just my perception...
Ciao,
Vincenzo
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Pulse Eternal
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12/2/2009 5:53:50 PM
---- Updated 12/2/2009 6:49:26 PM
Two Silo,
With all due respect, I must disagree with your assessment on bringing analog sources back into a DAW. True, cheap a/d and d/a converters will mess up the 'warmth' created but this is not because they see it as noise. It has more to do with phase errors, intermodulation / harmonic / crossover distortion and clock jitter. It is true that very low level noise signals are masked by lack of accuracy and dynamic range in cheaper converters but this is an entirely different thing to losing the analog 'warmth' produced when tape or tubes are pushed into saturation.
The main element of what we perceive as warmth is even order harmonic distortion which is musically related to the fundamental frequencies being added to. This, in effect, adds extra 'width' and 'fullness' to the material and gives the impression of warmth. Vacuum tubes produce increasing amounts of even order harmonic distortion as they are pushed further into saturation.
Tape tends to produce odd (mainly third) order harmonics when saturated which is a different characteristic and 'sound' to tubes with their predominantly second order harmonics. While the harmonics are not musically related to the fundamental, analog tape still adds a 'fatness' when pushed due to the gentle onset of clipping similar to a soft knee limiter. Tubes have this compression characteristic too.
This is the very reason many people use tubes in the front end preamps of their digital rigs. Add an Avalon 737 tube mic pre with a decent ribbon or large diaphragm condenser mic plugged into it to a ProTools rig and you'll hear a dramatic 'improvement' to the perceived sound, even if it is much less 'accurate'.... and it need not be a HD rig either. The difference is dramatic even on a modest LE rig... or any other reasonable DAW.
These even order harmonics are at a high enough level to be passed through even reasonably cheap digital converters. Thus, their presence will not be lost, particularly when we consider the fundamental producing the distortion will have already overcome the noise floor of the converter, effectively 'opening the gate' to the lower level harmonics. However, as mentioned above, cheap converters add brittleness and harshness to the sound through other means, typically being poorly designed analog sections and cheap, high jitter clocks.
Even modest digital gear nowadays is significantly better than even relatively expensive digital gear of earlier years. Therefore, even order harmonic warmth and soft clipping / compression is valuable even in a budget studio.
Vincenzo,
Give it a shot with your Akai and see. Experiment with things. You may get a warm, fuzzy feeling!!! :-D
Cheers,
Dannii.
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Two Silo Complex
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12/2/2009 10:35:26 PM
Hey I don't mind being corrected you know more than me.
I have only limited experience with this.
I have not tried this with modern a/d converters but rather old ones and to me it seemed to cut the overall warmth and some of the high end but it was cheap equipment.
From what I have heard tape is best used with few tracks that way each track gets a larger segment of tape and this creates more fatness.
To to record 8 tracks on 2 inch tape would sound better that 16 tracks on 2 inch tape but hey I could be wrong about that too.
There is a reason tape still exists. Simiuated digital tubes do not have this "quality"
Give it a go Vince what have you got to loose?
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Pulse Eternal
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12/4/2009 8:46:40 AM
Definitely agree with you that greater track width = more smiles :-)
There is another aspect to this too. Greater track width allows for more magnetic particles to be influenced by the field generated by the head and improves signal to noise ratio. Faster tape speed allows more particles to pass the head gap in a given time which improves frequency response.
Wider tracks and faster tape speed also improves reliability and reduces the occurrence of dropouts.
Something often overlooked though is the tape formulation itself. Higher quality tape will have finer particles, allowing improved performance.
A good quality tape formulation on a 16 track, half inch machine can sound better than an average tape formulation on a 16 track, one inch machine at the same speed.
Better quality tape will also have other desirable traits such as easier ability to be magnetised, stronger binding material leading to better durability, particles that maintain their magnetism longer for better reliability, particles with higher saturation point which gives greater headroom and a combination of backing material and particles that resist 'print through'. "Print through' is where adjacent layers of tape imprint their magnetic signal upon each other leading to audible echoes as the tape plays.
There's plenty of science and just as much art behind tape based recording systems. There's also no shortage of opinion and myth floating around too!!!
Bottom line, tape DOES have a quality that is undeniable and even a modest machine set up well for a good quality tape formulation can sound great.
The song that formed the inspiration for this topic (Strange) was recorded on a 16 track, half inch machine but it was properly set up with it's bias, eq and level all adjusted to match the Ampex 456 tape we used..... and yes, I did push the level meters to just the right amount of 'redness'!!! :-D
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Vincenzo Pandolfi
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12/7/2009 4:44:19 PM
I will give it a go as soon as I get the chance.
I think it would work with the A Field of green song.
Ciao,
Vincenzo
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The Man With No Band
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12/7/2009 5:00:59 PM
Nice sound girl !
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Paul groover
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12/8/2009 2:59:08 AM
---- Updated 12/8/2009 3:00:41 AM
I had a Revox A77 quarter inch reel to reel i sold it to buy a computer doh. It had a beguiling sound very warm and rich i have always been on the look out for another one but they are so rare and expensive now. Kind thing you hope to see at car boot sales along with moog synths and TB303,s dream on. I liked the song mellow and warm
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culeoka
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12/9/2009 6:55:49 PM
I have A really old Roberts r2r . I always Loved the sound it gave my recordings. Thanx to you ,now I know why.
Thanx again - Cul
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Pulse Eternal
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12/12/2009 9:13:11 AM
Vincenzo,
Let us all know when you've had a chance to try some experiments. I'm keen to hear how it goes for you.
Sam,
Cheers my good friend.
Paul,
Ouch!!! I bet you're kicking yourself over that! Revox had a reputation amongst audiophiles for a reason.
Cul,
It's great to see this topic has revived some analog enthusiasm :-)
This is what I recorded 'Strange' on.....
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Pulse Eternal
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12/12/2009 9:17:43 AM
---- Updated 12/12/2009 9:19:25 AM
....and this is the tape I used.....
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LyinDan
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12/12/2009 12:13:22 PM
I have around 18 reels of that. It all needs baking
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