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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/4/2009 1:57:59 PM
$500,000 limit?
WASHINGTON (AFP) - President Barack Obama Wednesday clamped a half million dollar cap on pay for executives of stricken finance firms who ask taxpayers "hat in hand" for bailouts, in a new bid to tame Wall Street excess.
The president also promised that the Treasury would next week unveil a new strategy designed to free up frozen credit markets, in a bid to ignite lending and consumption as the worst economic crisis since the 1930s bites.
"What gets people upset and rightfully so are executives being rewarded for failure, especially when those rewards are subsidized by US taxpayers," Obama said at the White House.
"For top executives to award themselves these kinds of compensation packages in the midst of this economic crisis is not only in bad taste it's a bad strategy and I will not tolerate it as president."
Under the new rules, bosses of companies benefiting from support from the Treasury would be paid no more than 500,000 dollars a year, Obama said.
unquote!!!-
My Comment-this shows just how far the super rich have come since the 1980s
the average "WAGE" in my country (New Zealand) is about $35,000 which is worth around
US$17,500 -???
therefore $500,000 still is a FREAKIN huge amount to be paying these "NEW ROYALTY"
what do ewe earn? (by comparison)
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The CODE
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2/4/2009 2:11:35 PM
We don't do this for the Money...Only for the Fame!
$500,000 would go a long way right now!
*Robbing Thieving Bastards - Me thinks!
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Kevin White
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2/4/2009 3:31:44 PM
500k seems excessive, but they were making 10x that while driving their company under.
Both sides of the fence agree the move is appropriate.
The cap vanishes once they've paid the U.S. Taxpayer back. It's pretty simple, actually ...
... and is both politically and socialogically brilliant.
In his words:
"This is America, we don't disparage wealth ... what gets people upset, and rightfully so, is executives being rewarded for failure. Especially when those rewards are subsidized by U.S. taxpayers," he said.
A wholly sensible move by the President. I'm getting to like this guy.
It was the right thing to do.
K-
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/4/2009 4:48:32 PM
Thanks Colin and Kevin
yeah I AGREE---but $500,000 is still an OBSCENE amount to pay for failure?
My point is ----how these amounts have ratcheted up over time ----so that now we accept these guys are our betters, and deserve to live a better life, and be paid far more than the rest of us peasants!!!
Just like the old royalty!!!
Note; the French and the Russians killed off these types in their respective revolutions
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Kevin White
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2/4/2009 5:00:30 PM
Yes, they did ... but there is a difference.
In the old way, birthright determined ...
In the new way ... one must earn ones' position.
K-
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The Man With No Band
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2/4/2009 5:59:20 PM
'In the new way ... one must earn ones' position."
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha !!!!!!
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Kevin White
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2/4/2009 6:59:31 PM
---- Updated 2/4/2009 7:02:02 PM
Please illuminate, Sam.
It's not birthright, per lineage, per se.
One must make their way up through the ranks ... to some extent or another ...although that's not to say that it isn't a bit of a clubhouse mentality that occurs once one gets there.
But ... what did you mean?
Best,
K-
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The Man With No Band
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2/4/2009 7:48:54 PM
---- Updated 2/4/2009 7:51:29 PM
Kev ... I'm sorry ... but that was the funniest thing I have read in quite some time ...
For every one of those guys that actually earned their position, I'd be willing to wager that at least 10 did not and perhaps more ...
Since I can only explain my position on things from first hand experience I shall relate a story here ...
When I read your statement it brought me back to an incident in my youth ...
When I left my parents house I was just at the age where boys like hot-rods ... and it was the era of street racers ... I fell in with a group of guys that ruled the street scene ... most of them came from fairly well off families ... I was allowed into their little "club" for two reasons, one, I had one hell of a car, two, I was a pretty sharp mechanic and loved getting greasy ...
There was one guy who always had top-notch gear ... He was the first actual "Rich" kid that I knew, that was allowed to run with the scruff ... His father was vise-president of a very large bank ... We were all allowed to meet at his house, where there was sort of a bungalow in the rear of the place that had it's own drive, as well as a garage where we worked on our cars ... We seldom saw his parents but they seemed like amiable people and I was kind of taken aback by the fact that they seemed to accept us ... All of the guys kind of became this tight knit family, and for someone whose own family was at odds with him it was really something special ...We hung around together for a couple of years ... Then all at once Tim got sent off to school and the doors closed and the chapter was over ...
Fast forward a few years ... I heard that Tim was in town so I thought I'd go say hi ... I drove into the property and instead of driving around to the bungalow I parked in the front drive and approached the door ... I was met by a servant who treated me like I was less than human ... informing me that unless I had an appointment to see anyone at the house that I was to leave the premises at once and I was never to drive "that contraption" onto the grounds again ...
I tried to explain that I had been friends with Tim and that I had just stopped by to say hello ... but he told me he knew all of Tim's friends and I was certainly not one of them ... Finally Tim came to the door ... He acted like he did not even know me ... He would not look me in the face ... he acted embarrassed that I had shown up and he rudely ask me what it was that I wanted ... and it just went downhill from there ... I left kind of in shock
I ran down one of the others in our old group and ask him what the hell was up with Tim ? I told him what had just happened ... He said ..."man, don't you get it .. the only reason Tim's folks let him hang with us is to sow his wild oats ... Didn't you ever notice we were never allowed near the main house, and had to come and go through the back drive ? ... We weren't people, we were just playmates for the bored rich kid " ... He then went on to tell me after Tim got back from school that his father had told him ... "Son ... the only thing you have to do to earn a spot at the bank which will eventually lead to you taking over my position is to cut ties with the riff raff gang"
... and that is how Tim actually "earned" the position he now holds ... Vice President of the 4th National Bank ...
So you see ... it is by lineage that these people "earn" their respective positions ... and almost every congressman or anyone in high office got there through lineage also ... there are a few exceptions ... but very few
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Kevin White
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2/5/2009 5:29:40 AM
That's sort of a "family business" story, Sam ... and it absolutely goes on ... everywhere. Tim was brought up in Daddy's biz, and benefited from the nepotism that pervades certain situations. But on scale, that's sort of a "local" issue with a relatively small business.
OTOH, when talking about major corporations, it's ain't as so much the family biz. It wasn't until recently that another Ford ran, well, Ford. Sure there were probably lots of family in the ranks somewhere, but few at the top.
My first hand story could tell of my Uncle Jack ... who started as a lowly accountant for American Express, worked hard and eventually rose to the position of Chief Financial Officer for the company. He didn't have any family pulling him up .. he comes from humble Boston Irish roots ... solid middle class.
I'll bet if you read the bios of most CEO's of big corporations, you might find that family might of had next to nothing to do with them rising to their positions. Pick a few companies, go to their Investor Relations pages online and read about upper management. Family businesses, yeah ... all the time. Corporations? I don't think so much.
OTOH ... if you notice once they arrive in their positions, and they become "known" in the top circle of business -- the boardrooms of America, where candidates are selected by the corporate boards, you'll find that there is an unsettling clubhouse mentality that goes on. Once a CEO gets the job, politics are played, and the CEO generally pads the boards with friends so as to both better secure their position as well as stack the deck for the board to provide exceedingly liberal compensation packages that insure wealth for the CEO, even if the CEO drives the company under.
It's that sort of nonsense that makes the blood of the average worker boil.
It's also why what the President did was spot on.
Kev-
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satch
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2/5/2009 6:10:56 AM
It's a start, moving in the right direction. But imo 500k is still hugely excessive.
I have, for many years, said that, just as we now have (at least in the European Union) a legal minimum wage for workers, we should have a legal maximum wage for all.
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Kevin White
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2/5/2009 6:27:02 AM
---- Updated 2/5/2009 6:28:21 AM
The max pay cap philosophy was originally embraced, then abandoned by several socially progressive companies ... because they couldn't compete for top talent against their competitors.
From Time Magazine:
Over the years a few companies have put CEO pay caps in place, but many have either abandoned or raised them in the face of competition. Socially progressive Ben & Jerry's, which for a decade capped executive pay at seven times the salary of the lowest-paid worker, dropped the provision in 1994 when it sought a CEO to replace co-founder Ben Cohen. Whole Foods Market, the popular organic supermarket chain, has raised its cap twicefrom 8 to 1 in 1997, to 14 to 1 today, though that's still considered low.
Other thoughts:
Pay experts point out that CEOs are like free agents in sports, and that you can't fault them for taking big packages (within legal boundaries) any more than you can wonder why A-Rod cashes his paychecks.
Free market means free market, for better or worse.
Unless of course, you want a government bailout ... then it's lose pay to play.
Kev-
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Conversation Suicide
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2/5/2009 6:50:55 AM
---- Updated 2/5/2009 6:52:31 AM
REAL and Effective Socialism is what's needed my friends.
Redistribution of the WEALTH.
Capitalism is seriously flawed, due to human GREED.
The "good ole boy" network is where at LEAST 95% of the super rich come from Kev. The Connected. Nepotism, and Similar.
Nice try though, with your "they earned it" statement.
They earned it, on WHOSE backs?
Whoops my how time flies!!! S'cuse my bitterness Kev, but I"m off to my slave-wage day job....
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Kevin White
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2/5/2009 7:12:17 AM
Same thing with music, right?
Never any good ones make it anymore ... it's all who you know.
K-
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The Man With No Band
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2/5/2009 8:23:19 AM
---- Updated 2/5/2009 8:46:36 AM
Kev .... the 4th National Bank of America is anything but a family business ....
I just did some checking ... the Bank is now just called "Bank of America" ... One of the LARGEST Corporations in America
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Kevin White
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2/5/2009 8:51:55 AM
---- Updated 2/5/2009 9:00:46 AM
That's interesting, Sam ... must have been a buyout.
I wonder where Tim fell in the process/mergers? I wonder if, when the big fish swallowed the small one, his family ties held him safe?
I'd google his name and see if you find him and where he landed in the shakeups. If he's "notable", there's probably some information out there on him.
Kev-
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/5/2009 1:53:12 PM
Satch
thanks for "getting" my point
Kev! this planet has finite resources----money represents some of these!!
It is impossible mathmatically to have exponencial growth at the top of the economy ---banks corporations etc without it effecting those at the bottom!!!
The argument for higher pay for executives "pay peanuts and get Monkeys"
is a fallacy----actually no matter what they are paid almost ALL execs are like sheep they find an "Ideal" eg the FREEMARKET and they blindly follow each other in that philosophy----
There is still no one in power with the guts (or imagination) to say
"the emperor has no clothes" we are still trying to prop up free Market idealism
when it has clearly failed
At the moment the poor (taxpayers) are subsidising the Rich!
Your turn!
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Kevin White
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2/5/2009 3:15:28 PM
---- Updated 2/5/2009 3:18:51 PM
Personally, I agree that execs are paid too much for what they do.
But I also think in a free market, there's absolutely nothing that can be done about it.
Executive pay, though, is different from the subject of corporate welfare ... which is controllable by government.
Kev-
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/6/2009 12:55:02 PM
I think that in a few months-------as these payouts fail to actually save--
"Disaster Capitalism" as we call the Bushco Neocon model---
ordinary peoples (programmed) acceptance of the Status Quo will be severely tested-----
I'll get back to ya in 6 months!!!
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Holo Lukaloa
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2/6/2009 1:59:43 PM
The Republicans are actually opposing these limits.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/06/gop-opposes-pay-limits-on_n_164544.html
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Kevin White
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2/6/2009 3:27:20 PM
Their constituents should fire them.
K-
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