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LyinDan
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8/26/2015 4:11:55 PM
What happened to you?
You thought if you could just get your music on the internet, that everyone would see what you saw in it, everyone would hear what you heard. It would be great. Everyone would want to s-y-d. Because what you had to say in music was the greatest.
Here, some years later, no one s-y-d. In most cases no one had anything to say about what you uploaded, mostly for free, to the internet.
WTF?
Perhaps you have a problem in communicating? Because, if everyone heard what you heard in your head, CLEARLY they would be crowding to s-y-d.
What's wrong?
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Noah Spaceship
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8/26/2015 5:02:22 PM
magnification is required to s-m-d
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Noah Spaceship
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8/26/2015 5:05:45 PM
---- Updated 8/26/2015 5:07:05 PM
Delusions of grandeur translate as cringes not goosebumps.
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Shoe City Sound
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8/26/2015 5:35:34 PM
Never had that expectation. We were already disillusioned from dragging our asses - and equipment to a whole bunch of clubs where people sometimes crowded in, but never listened that hard to the music once they got there. It seems waaay better to relax and record and put it out there for free and be happy. We've gotten way more feedback online than we ever did the other way and from actual listeners.
Dumb ass question and embarrassed to ask but what is s-y-d?
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8/26/2015 7:45:47 PM
I don't know what happened. It's been a long way I've travelled but I never really got there. I got closer than some did though.
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Stoneman
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8/26/2015 9:47:19 PM
I am right where I always wanted to be. Working in music full time without the expectation of being seen as someone great. My goal was always to be seen and heard on my own terms with my own requirements and at my own leisure. I was never under some delusion that I was a star. I only believed that music is what I was put here to do. The internet has been very good to me. It earned me accolades, money and got me signed to some very cool companies. I am not a household name but my house has my name on it and I live in a very cool environment. What else could I ever want? To be mobbed by a bunch of people I don't even know or want to know? Success is according to your own specifications. In that sense I am a huge success. One should never allow someone else to define what success should be for you. What they consider to be a success may turn out to be a nightmare for you. So many so called successful people commit suicide, drown themselves in drugs and alcohol and live miserable and unhappy lives. All that glitters is not necessarily gold. Love of the art should not be tied to internet fame or any kind of fame. It should be tied to the joy that you get from creating living and breathing musical organisms that grow and become their own images of who you are. It should be treasured, nurtured, and respected. The joy of writing and producing music is what I have always lived for. Anything else that comes with it is just a "bonus". That is what happened for me, I achieved my goals and earned some bonuses. That is what I hope happens for all of my friends here at IMP.
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Noah Spaceship
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8/27/2015 10:24:12 AM
Auto tune in my head won't interface with GarageBand on my MacBook.
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Noah Spaceship
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8/27/2015 11:12:42 AM
---- Updated 8/27/2015 11:13:36 AM
I'm way ahead of my time and people haven't evolved to my level yet.
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Noah Spaceship
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8/27/2015 11:15:10 AM
This is all absolutely true, btw. I know it sounds like sarcasm, but it's not.
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Richard Scotti
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8/27/2015 3:00:11 PM
I'm not sure what happened. I'm just an innocent bystander. In the season finale it will all be just a dream. Either that or I'm just a ghost like Bruce Willis in The Sixth Sense.
Stay tuned. All will be revealed eventually. But then again it may fade to black and be a mystery forever.
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LyinDan
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8/27/2015 4:23:18 PM
Richard, I sense great profundity in that comment. Seriously.
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LyinDan
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8/27/2015 4:24:54 PM
Stoneman, bullshit.
You and everyone else here who deserves more, deserve more.
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LyinDan
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8/27/2015 4:26:09 PM
Noah, are you me?
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Richard Scotti
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8/27/2015 4:50:03 PM
A profound question deserves a profound answer.
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LyinDan
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8/27/2015 5:12:10 PM
Frum sumbuddy, butt yu lukin inda rawng playse fodat.
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LyinDan
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8/27/2015 5:17:05 PM
In Phoenese, dat wud b frm smbdi u lkn nda rwng plc fdt.
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SqurlyMurly
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8/27/2015 6:05:01 PM
Not pertaining to myself, but I have found some of the greatest music right here! My guess is that the mainstream music industry is content to continue on the path it has traveled for the last few years; cloning!!
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8/27/2015 6:14:31 PM
Welcome back to the pipeline, SqurlyMurly!
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Richard Scotti
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8/28/2015 6:24:14 AM
I hear ya
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Stoneman
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8/28/2015 11:13:43 AM
It's not bullshit and anyone that thinks they are going to get what they deserve out of life is delusional. What? Do you actually think that life is fair? What? do people actually think the internet genie is going to rain fans down on them from heaven? The first thing that I learned about life is that it is NOT fair and you probably won't get any of the things you deserve. As a Black man I always had to work twice as hard as my colleagues in order to get a small fraction of the perks that they got. Where I come from life is a struggle and you learn to be thankful for what ever you may be able to scrounge up out of it. You (Lying Dan) are not qualified to define success for me. Only I know what I want or wanted out of my music career. I have had a few highly lucrative offers that I turned down because I knew my health would not permit me to tour all over the world and because I don't want that shit. Keep the fame, give me the money. But even more important than that, I am blessed to be home with my wife working on music at my own leisure. My royalty checks cover several of my vacations each year as I own several time shares here and abroad. I'm happy. Other than my declining health, my life is stress free. Dude, you don't know me and you certainly don't know what it takes to make me happy. That is not bullshit Mr. Lying Dan. That is a fact. Maybe you know a lot of musicians that are miserable about their lot in life. I do to. As a matter of fact we all probably do. But I also know a lot of songwriters and musicians who are happy to play the club down the street and then go home in peace. Some of us actually grow up and decide that there is nothing wrong with not being famous. A few, like me, get a small dose of fame and realize that it is not what people think it is.
More over, let me talk about the economics involved here. Everything always seems to come down to money. Maybe that would be something you can comprehend or agree with. Maybe not. I know that I can sell at least 8,000 CD's as that is about the normal rate of unit revenue I produce. According to industry standards that is paltry and pathetic. But according my standards that is a good take as I have zero overhead. I don't pay anyone to record me as I am a recording engineer with my own studio. I don't even pay for the electrical bills because I have 38 solar panels on my house that I own (not lease). The electrical company pays me for the excess electricity I produce. I don't pay any other musicians as I write play and produce my own music. I am signed to 3 "non-exclusive" contracts with 3 different companies and that covers 6 music genres. All are 50/50 contracts. They cannot make any money unless they spend money promoting my music. They cannot reclaim any money because I did all the traditional stuff that recording companies usually reclaim before they pay royalties. They cannot cheat me because I contractually have online auditing power on all sales figures. So, no, I am not getting rich but I am earning my lions share and that is enough to cover my fun trips to tropical locations with my wife and pay some bills. I already know that at least 8000 of the 12000 fans I have on my email list will buy any CD I put out. Whatever the recording companies bring in is extra bonus stuff. After I pay my taxes I am blessed to have a good piece of change to play with. So my wife and I travel to exotic places and party our old asses off. In addition to this, I have two pensions and social security. I worked 3 jobs for 33 years. My wife also has a pension from working as a programmer for 30+ years. We are pretty much set until we die. When it is all said and done, I have nothing left to prove. I have 44 music industry awards on the walls of my studio. In my opinion, I have received everything I deserve and so much more.
You want to know what "bullshit" is? The real bullshit is the fact that people think putting a few songs on the internet is going to bring them fame and fortune. You may put it out there but in order for it to catch fire you are going to have to work. Oh boy, did I say the bad word here? WORK! Yeah, that's right. Success in life does not magically happen for everyone. Only a few get that kind of luck. The rest of us have to work at making a success. I have always been a worker at everything I do. I never expect anything to just magically happen. I gained the fans on my email list by tirelessly working to promote myself for the past 20 years. Mind you, I am a terrible promoter but for some reason a few people like me. Go figure! But they would never have heard of me if I hadn't of been pounding the cyber bricks to gain a few die hard friends of my music. The internet has great possibilities but it is just like everything else. You have to "work" at it or affiliate with someone that will work at it for you. Anyone that expects something for nothing is eating bullshit and defecating lies. I went back to school when I retired and gained credentials in recording arts and music business. I use everything that I learned for my aspirations in music. I don't even hire lawyers as I know how to negotiate my own damn contracts.
I'm just a small time songwriter/producer and I am cool with that. Sorry if it is hard for you to understand that not everyone wants what you think they should want. Some of us just want to do music! Like I said before, anything extra that comes with that is bonus.
So to answer your question. What's wrong is the fact that people are under some delusion that the internet is the golden fleece of fame. It is not. The golden fleece of fame is found only by those who study tried and true methods of internet promotions and gain realistic expectations from their "work".
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Steve White
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8/28/2015 11:50:13 AM
Some pretty cool points Stoneman. :)
I don't suppose you would like to PM me your musical contacts? I would love to sell couple of thousand CD's.
Really though I agree with everything you've pointed out here.
Steve
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LyinDan
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8/28/2015 12:13:30 PM
So much for being supportive :)
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Noah Spaceship
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8/28/2015 12:16:35 PM
Well then.
Umm,..
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LyinDan
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8/28/2015 12:31:04 PM
I think Stoneman read a teeny weeny bit more into my comment than was intended, but he actually brought out a few things I might have been trying to elicit. Using a bit more typing than I usually do. Maybe I'm a mite too concise. Ya reckon?
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Noah Spaceship
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8/28/2015 12:35:46 PM
Stoneman hit the triple bar, and yes, I think he thought you slipped him the snicklefritz.
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Stoneman
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8/28/2015 12:50:35 PM
Nah, I talk with my fingers and that makes for long conversational crap. That's just who I am. The long winded fingers of Stone. :) However, please help an old soul out. What is a s.y.d. and a s-m-d.? Also, wtf is a snicklefritz? Could you fyi me some 411 on that? Thanks for allowing me to be long winded. I'll go back into my man cave (studio) and work on music now.
Much Respect
Stoneman
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LyinDan
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8/28/2015 12:50:59 PM
He's an expressive writer :) And he cares more about expanding and being clear than I do.
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LyinDan
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8/28/2015 12:58:51 PM
s-y-d the first word is suck, that's all I'm saying. I don't want Little Timmy's mommy to be offended, because, ya know, I would never take a chance on offending anyone.
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Stoneman
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8/28/2015 1:04:22 PM
Haaaaaa! Okay, enough said :)
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Noah Spaceship
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8/28/2015 1:06:16 PM
I was right about s y d! Haha
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Noah Spaceship
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8/28/2015 1:07:28 PM
Stoneman, you're awesome.
This thread makes me miss William reed, though. :)
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LyinDan
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8/28/2015 3:01:29 PM
William, get yer ass in here.
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Shoe City Sound
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8/28/2015 4:48:00 PM
OK Lyin Dan - I asked what s-y-d was a few posts up ... and you never answered that till Stoneman asked?! What the hell? I exist here - get over it
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LyinDan
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8/28/2015 5:02:46 PM
Shoe, i'm just fun with you. I saw your question and DECLINEDTOANSWER.
What? What? are you just lookin for attention?
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Shoe City Sound
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8/28/2015 6:38:46 PM
---- Updated 8/28/2015 6:40:07 PM
Always! Obviously you DECLINEDTOANSWER - that was the whole point :)
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Bob Elliott
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8/29/2015 1:12:08 PM
It's a tough world. That doesn't mean my music isn't beautiful. It does mean I am absolutely not putting effort into promoting it. I'm kind of lame in that area.
But my bills are paid and my job will be demanding less of my time, and that means more music, and that is my true aim.
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Bob Elliott
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8/29/2015 1:20:31 PM
But imagine for a minute that my view of my music holds some truth: I actually make some worthwhile quality recordings. If that is the case, haven't I actually fulfilled my role as an artist? Ultimately isn't that what is required of me as an artist: quality work?
It takes my life effort to reach that one thing, and that may be all I can bring, but that seems to me to be all we can ask from artists in the final call.
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Steve Ison
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8/29/2015 1:43:06 PM
"It takes my life effort to reach that one thing, and that may be all I can bring, but that seems to me to be all we can ask from artists in the final call"
Yeh totally Bob ....
The corporate modern world is so anti-art seeing only value in $$$$ n outward popularity that its tough for people to get a grasp of an idea like that though..
Absoloutly everything is pushing peoples thinking against it..
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Noah Spaceship
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8/29/2015 9:41:12 PM
Quality is subjective, hence the mindfuck thinking your art is any good when people like Keith Richards say Peppers is slog.
Quality. Based on what? Self fulfillment or Industry standards measured in decibels money spent on production, verse chorus bridge and critiqued by professionals?
It's easy to dilute ourselves. It's easy to think if we had the means to force feed our shite down more throats, the more likely we will find a market, which is true.
I guess you can 'write' hundreds and hundreds of songs, blindly trying to pin the tail on the donkey, and that approach works for some people. (Lottery tickets)
There is nothing wrong with that. And if that is your approach, I think you are shooting under par, no?
these online sites have enough traffic to reasonably assume anything billboard worthy will find its way, because even this small pond functions relative to its larger counter parts.
A bartender described to me a band that performed the night before, and he didn't like their music but said they were believable and he respected what they did.
Believable.
I'm still meditating on that. I think if you aren't believable, it costs an insane amount of money and many others' talent to make up for it.
Otherwise you have to be Cobain, Wilson, or Lennon.
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8/29/2015 10:00:30 PM
As a guy who listens to more indie music than anybody, I am absolutely certain as a music fan that the best music of this era is indie. I don't have trouble putting for instance our Kayak Big 25 up against the Billboard hot 100. There's no comparison.
But this is all a big secret. It's not impossible that some day it won't be a secret. The music business environment that has caused it to be a secret is the problem.
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Noah Spaceship
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8/29/2015 10:34:21 PM
I prefer indie music.
The big money machine doesn't.
Not only that, but, indie music doesn't need $1,000,000 to promote a single to make it believable.
Billboard is about money.
You aren't comparing apples with apples.
A big label isn't going to pick up an indie act and promote them before turning them out like a desperate runaway resulting in the oh so famiar endless sea of cookie cutter fuckall.
We are like the semi pro and minor leagues, full of epic players, but not MLB compatible.
That's a good thing. Isn't it?
Who wants a billboard life?
Fuck that shit.
Semi pros for me, that's where we live and experience the grit of the game.
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8/29/2015 11:00:28 PM
well I disagree with the minor league analogy. I think it's more like top players playing on some island where no one can hear them play. It's not that the big money machine doesn't prefer indies, it's that they don't even seek new talent, they assume no better talent exists because it hasn't fallen in their laps. I'd go further and say they don't even know what the flavor of better talent is because they are so unengaged in the art of songwriting as part of their concept.
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Stoneman
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8/30/2015 2:39:12 AM
The music industry is all about the flavor of the month. If someone is hot and makes money, all of the major recording companies start to search for people who sound like that guy. I study the music industry trades all the time and well, for instance, right now they are are looking for bands with music like Uptown Funk. The song went to #1and stayed #1 for months. Now they all want that sound. It's pitiful how the crappy suits run after the golden egg that someone else just cashed in on. Don't get me wrong, I love Uptown Funk. It's an old sound that found a new audience or is it the same old audience that wishes that kind of music would come back? I tend to think it is a bit of both. At any rate, my point is that when the carbon copy folks get involved with artist development, originality flies right out of the studio because they all try to get the same sound. Meanwhile, artists with music that is ready to take us to the next big thing are sitting around trying to figure out what they are doing wrong. Some band manager walks in, looks at them and says Yo, you guys got anything that sounds like Uptown Funk?" The circle of music life gets smaller, weaker and less original every day. But the indies keep forging ahead playing to their own sound and beat. True originality comes from the artist and not some suit with a hard on for Uptown Funk money.
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Noah Spaceship
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8/30/2015 4:33:50 AM
Stoneman is on the money. They (the billboard machine) are a business structured like a caste system functioning within different parameters and isolated/insulated from our world.
Scott, we aren't going to agree on this.
Albini vs Litt kind of politics. -
Again, subjective from our POV
cite ONE indie production from a home studio that hit, and I will show you the money trail behind its ascension to the charts.
Money. Period.
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Noah Spaceship
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8/30/2015 6:10:17 AM
---- Updated 8/30/2015 6:11:23 AM
Sorry for being so argumentative, I think we are talking about two completely different worlds.
Indie productions are to mainstream productions as go carts are to cars.
The artists are not the vehicle. Does that make sense?
I am quite certain A&R eyes grace this site, despite your claim of this place being off the radar.
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8/30/2015 6:33:49 AM
I don't think there's much difference in production between quality indie acts and mainstream.
Ever since My Space became big, labels and such wait for acts to prove they can sell music and generate a buzz. I don't think they even have a&r talent scouts like they did back in the day.
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Noah Spaceship
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8/30/2015 12:02:10 PM
I agree about making a buzz and standing out, that was what I'm saying about the small pond/minor leagues.
Indie productions are tens of thousands of dollars in mastering away from 'industry standards' that is just a fact. You will not hear a song circulating at the top without significant injection of money.
The difference between A&R from the 90s vs now is they can easily find trends online, and this place, I assure is no exception.
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Bryon Tosoff
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8/30/2015 12:15:14 PM
I dont know a thing about this stuff, I think i will study more and come back in 110 years with an educated comment
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Hop On Pop
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8/30/2015 12:34:03 PM
Well, I have a friend from high school who just played bass with Naked Raygun last night, when they opened for Foo Fighters at Wrigley Field here in Chicago.
Sold out crowd of 30,000-plus.
THIS certainly didn't happen to ME.
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Noah Spaceship
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8/30/2015 12:45:21 PM
Bryon, haha.
For the record, Scott, you are a force - you inspire and challenge me and I admire and respect you. You always stood out to me, fwiw.
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Bryon Tosoff
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8/30/2015 12:46:39 PM
cool stuff todd
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Bryon Tosoff
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8/30/2015 12:57:20 PM
So Fred, I dont want to offer my piece of mind or thoughts here , done it many times before, Stoneman, you Scott Lyin Dan and everyone else has covered all the bases.
I can offer some thoughts of course and everyone has a different perspective based upon their own experiences. It is a huge subject. there are some areas I agree with and others I dont, we all have something to offer in the how why whats and so on.
As for my opportunities in promoting others, well i have learned a lot about about the whole industry these last 15 years and even since I got in to it, and have worked with at least 60-70 artists during that time.. the music scene has changed dramatically, and continues to, it is an ocean of artists. all trying to tread water and survive. But the main thing is, enjoy the experience and embrace the opportunities you have. So do what you love, love what you do. Just have fun, as someone who said some time ago
" no expectations, no disappointments"
Cheers
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Noah Spaceship
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8/30/2015 1:17:04 PM
Yeah. I may be the only one here who sees it like I do.
I certainly won't claim I know better than any of you, just offering my perspective.
I reserve the right to be wrong.
Much respect to all for your thoughts, I take them to heart.
Cheers. :)
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Bryon Tosoff
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8/30/2015 2:09:58 PM
so Fred, your thoughts are well framed and presented here. I respect your input, its great to have you involved and to have Lyin Dan bring up an important topic, it goes deeper then we all can imagine and or grasp, most of what has been brought up is right on, and there is so much more, recently I have been involved with a group that is poised to have some fine things occur, but it is all about getting people , supporters, advocates, and money behind ones project, it is a huge undertaking these days, as an indie band, few can afford to launch themselves without sacrificing something and giving away more then what they should, and is it really worth it, to be owned, literally owned by another who wants a piece of you, once that happens you are not indie. true indies do it all themselves without selling themselves out. and this is really what happens, you have to literally sign your life blood away, and then you are shephered into towing the labels way of doing things, so you underwrite your own first album, then give it over to get it recognized in the industry.then get perhaps 1-2 albums your sign on the dotted line, give up a lot there, as for radio, it is way way different, slimmer opportunities , fewer stations, and gifting djs radio payola still is alive and well, just done differently, then getting your songs there might have a better chance, you have to have the whole deal to really "make it" A and R , promoters, managers, booking agents, product, interviews, publicity people , media its gotta be a well oiled machine, everyone knowing their part. so, yes, there are opportunities, how bad do you want it, how much are you willing to sacrifice. I mean really give up and sacrifice something for that, friends, family loved ones, wives husbands. it is a brutal greasy slimy business. not for the faint hearted and the easily offended ones, gotta be tough as nails and willing to fight for your piece of the turf, and money helps, bigtime
it costs hundreds of thosands of dollars to a million or more to really break a group, and most fit into the sliced salami mode. that has been covered here. do you have a defining original sound that catches peoples attention, do you have the magic song, if it is a great well written song with stellar production, cool sounding and people can hum or sing along with it , then you just might have a chance. the best songs, are those. catchy melody lines. and essentially simple. for the most part, that is why country music is King right now, and will be for some time to come.
and thats the way i see it.
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Bryon Tosoff
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8/30/2015 2:24:56 PM
addendum
The money these days is made on the road in touring, swag, sales, not so much in royalties as in the past. perhaps you can maybe get a jingle deal, commercial, something in the movies, well that helps, now the labels are taking more from the bands these days on the road,that is how they are surviving and climbing back up again, that is why many oldsters get resurrected and get out there, the old guys and gals bring in the big bucks, it is all about business my friends, and so it should be, and sure having songs that are cool and hip are important, but you have to market and promote market and promote. but it is the ones the grow slowly that last and stick around the most, and grow from the beginning organically, from the point of view of building it from grass roots. that kind of group and or performer entertainer will make it. that is why groups like the Beach Boys will tour forever, I just saw them, without Wilson, Love was running the show, with some great musicians, but they hit the ball our of the park. with such a magnificent performance, they entertained, outdoor show in a old amphitheater,, 10000 people loving every song every minute. now can that be recaptured, do we have something as special as that, or the beatles, is there someone here that will rise to that level, I do believe it will happen, soon
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8/30/2015 2:34:47 PM
I agree that in most cases it takes money to get a project off the ground, but still disagree about the tens of thousands of dollars of production supposedly required. The difference between a quality home recording and one created by the best pro studio is often pretty tiny. Indies can easily bridge that gap with songwriting and soul.
Bruce Springsteen recorded Nebraska with a 4 track cassette portastudio and its impact will go on far longer than the kind of big budget dance tracks that you find on Billboard.
Many of our peers are caught up in a thing called gear envy, gear lust. I see that as mostly macho baloney and notice that female artists I know don't seem to fall into that problem, for some reason. :)
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Bryon Tosoff
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8/30/2015 3:29:47 PM
right on Scott, you can do a lot with very little, and I admire your songcrafting, lyrical abilities and music vibe, and your sound is good and you staty within your wheelhouse for the most part ( sometimes we need to stay within that which we know and do well, but no prob experimenting of course) honestly, that is true. I did my one and only release at blue frog studios in 3 hours for 150 dollars, then the mastering 600 and about a 1000 dollars in cds and did a lot of digital submissions. those were ten songs on the holding to the dream release, , classical pop and easy listening. of course it was just piano instrumentals, but I went in prepared and knocked those 10 songs off in under 2 hours, including setup sound checks and so on, then i got the studio to do up the cd from their program,and walked out smiling, I did it, at a pro studio,
now many will do 20 40 or more hours per song. and they have to, with many musicians and arrangements, some do it live off the floor, others do bedtracks and so on. Summer and the Sinners did their first album in one day, 13 songs 8-10 hours and that was it, they rehearsed like crazy and are a working band, and pro at it, I think they did there latest Cant keep a good girl down, with summer coming in later for the vocals, now that is economics for ay
I did a digital release kick back relax cd thing, for really nothing.all myself, with hardly any gear, some software, a couple keyboards, synths etc and with help from Duane flock and jaime elliott and a couple others and it turned out real well, each of those releases did well on radio, some have been licensed and it all was just a fun thing, i do it for myself, of course ,not expecting anything ,but I do have contacts in the radio biz and they know me and like my stuff
I dont pretend to be a pro guy with all the bells and whistles and great production, I do what i can, mostly piano, sometimes more instrumentation, and sometimes vocals, not often, most of my stuff is jazz, easy listening and classical, that is my area of expertise, and were I think I excel
but your are right. i take my hat off to you and a whole slew of so many pro players here who lay down some fantastic songs, i spend a lot of time listening to artists here as yhou know, and support the hell out of this place and those I listen to. congrats and big props to you for what you have done and accomplished, as a musician and one who drives the IMP MOBILE...good on ya
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Noah Spaceship
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8/31/2015 8:36:09 PM
i don't see any gear envy going on here. i hope that wasn't implying me.
if so, I can see where you are misunderstanding me, Scott.
my studio is a piece of shit, and I am mediocre engineer on my very best day.
The tens of thousands I am talking about are man hours through equipment only select few establishments in this country even have at their disposal, and they reside in Nashville, LA, New York and Chicago.
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Noah Spaceship
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8/31/2015 8:45:44 PM
Bryon, you are one of the hardest working individuals I know.
Kris and I were singing your praises this past Saturday.
You keep the bar high, and I love it.
This indie world we live in need and rely on vets like you, Brother.
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Bryon Tosoff
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9/1/2015 5:31:15 PM
thanks Fred, for the props and acknowledgement. Appreciate your support
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