The Pipeline Blog at IndieMusicPeople.com - LyinDan Topics and Comments

Without doin' research, to ensure my American History (and believe me, those OLD documents are pretty much HISTORY!!!) is spot on..... I'd say it's in The Constitution or The Bill of Rights or an Amendment to our Constitution or some other such document.... Vague enough?

THERE.

I let part of the cat ous dem fegfoire

Add Comment

LyinDan

8/8/2009 5:40:25 PM

Really? Anyone else think so?

Add Comment

Richard Scotti

8/8/2009 7:55:54 PM ---- Updated 8/8/2009 8:01:02 PM

It's from the Preamble to the Constitution.

Add Comment

LyinDan

8/8/2009 8:17:39 PM ---- Updated 8/8/2009 8:20:57 PM

The first is from the very first sentence of the U.S. Constitution:
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

From Article 1, Section 8 of the United States Constitution:
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

It's one of the enumerated powers of Congress.

So, not once, but at least twice, it is stated that one of the very purposes of the Union is to "provide for the general welfare".

This phrase has never been adjudicated by the Supreme Court, but there is general agreement that it gives broad powers to our lawmakers. Although there are so-called strict constructionists who try to strip it of its clear meaning, from the first days of the Union it has been read in the broad way. That is not at all new. Read Alexander Hamilton (you may have his picture in your pocket). If you want to see some legal discussion of this subject, go here.

The reason I bring this up is to counter the argument that the U.S. as a nation has no business insuring the health of it's populace, an argument that has been made right here by some who think they are being patriotic by standing up for the right of the United States government to deny health coverage to all its citizens.

Discuss?

Add Comment

Conversation Suicide

8/8/2009 8:47:41 PM ---- Updated 8/8/2009 8:59:08 PM

YOWZER - so you don't even have to be a Socialist/Communist or Marxist, to believe the this ole U.S.A. should take care of it's own!

Nice reminder about our very own Constitution Dan.

We should do a benefit show to raise awareness.

Anybody rich enough out there to FRONT such a show?

Nah, just dreamin'. Good lookin' out LyinDan.

Now talk amongst yourselves.....

As LyinDan has pointed out It's provided for in our very first Government document of importance as a young Country, The Constitution.
Socialized Medicine for the MASSES in the U.S. Yes or no?

-pHLeGm
(phreakin' pinko- commie mo' fo' that I am... I had to JUMP on this one....)

Add Comment

Sly Witt

8/8/2009 9:03:02 PM

darn... I was going to say a burma shave sign

Add Comment

Conversation Suicide

8/8/2009 9:48:36 PM

teeee heeeee!

Add Comment

SqurlyMurly

8/8/2009 9:57:34 PM

There are always 2 sides to everything. Depends on how each person interprets something. That's just my opinion.

This is from another page on the net. Just something to think about.

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States."

First, what did "welfare" mean in the age of the Founders? From the Free Republic Web Site:

We all know the meaning of words can change over time. In order to more accurately assess the meaning of the word "welfare", with respect to its use in the Constitution, I consulted a source from that period. I happened to own a reprint of the 1828 edition of Noah Webster's American Dictionary of the English Language. Here is how the word "welfare" was defined 40 years after it was written in the Constitution:

WEL´FARE, n. [well and fare, a good going; G. wohlfahrt; D. welvaard; Sw. valfart; Dan. velfærd.]
1. Exemption from misfortune, sickness, calamity or evil; the enjoyment of health and the common blessings of life; prosperity; happiness; applied to persons.
2. Exemption from any unusual evil or calamity; the enjoyment of peace and prosperity, or the ordinary blessings of society and civil government; applies to states.

Can't we all just get along and stop dogging each other for being DemoCRAP or RePUKEican. Lets all be INDIEpendents!!! : )

Add Comment

Conversation Suicide

8/8/2009 10:09:52 PM

I'm definitely down for INDIE-pendant....

I'm wearin' my INDIE-pendant, as this is written.

Add Comment

LyinDan

8/9/2009 12:59:16 AM

This blogger is arguing that the term "welfare" in the Constitution is being applied to the STATES of the United States, and not to individuals, even though his quoted 1800's definition mentions individuals as well as States. First off, I have to wonder how political Noah Webster was at the time, and why he would make a distinction between the two applications of the word, individual and collective (states). Maybe there was some ulterior purpose in that. Second, the blogger is ignoring the word as used in the Preamble, as I say, the very first sentence in the Constitution. "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." Here, the word is clearly referring to individuals, even by Noah's old definition. How can a State "secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves" (ourselves is a collective, alright, but it clearly refers to a collection of individuals, not of States (political organizations). The blogger is simply wrong-headed.

And, if you read "welfare" as applying to individuals, then the definition supports my thesis- that the Constitution, and the Founding Fathers, organized the U.S. to support the welfare of its citizens.

Add Comment

Stevie D and Company

8/9/2009 1:04:42 AM

My name is Stevie and my favorite color is clear and I am a FEDERALIST, what time does ARTFEST START???

Add Comment

SqurlyMurly

8/9/2009 2:25:47 AM

I'm an INDIE, can't pay my bills cause I don't have a job presently. Thanks LD!
I'm not going to look either. Its my Constitutional right to have everyone see to my welfare. : )

So what are you waiting for?? Get on over to my page and donate to my welfare. Heck, I might even send you a song or two!! hee hee

Now that that subject is all clear, how's about we all join hands and sing a tune or something?

Add Comment

LyinDan

8/9/2009 6:41:22 PM

I'm trying to deal with a narrow point here - the contention that government has no business getting into the health care situation. Not to do with "Welfare" as in government support of poor people (which, however, is also definitely of governmental interest, it becomes that even if the national government takes no steps whatsoever to care for the indigent).

Poor health care costs the nation as a whole - and that means you and me, even if we as individuals are healthy as a horse. People in poor health have poor productivity, among other things. People in poor health drag the entire system down by decreasing the productivity of those who have to serve them, one way or another. Just the tip of the iceberg. When nations don't take care of their own, they pay for it in degradation, discontent, and eventually, in wholesale forced change, either internally or externally enforced. Not to mention in the lowering of simple humanity.

A healthy populace is a smarter, more productive populace. Even in simple self-interest, this should concern us all.

Add Comment