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Chris Mahon
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2/11/2009 1:07:14 PM
Exploring limitations... What holds you back the most??
Referring to the studio here, and its something I've been thinking about alot lately. It seems I always hear more in my head than I am able to realize during recording. When I write a song, I can hear considerable depth and detail internally, but usually have to settle for something less than that in the studio. For me, this comes down to several factors, including, but not necessarily limited to:
Limited resources - this applies on several levels. We would all like to have more money with which to improve our selection of recording gear and musical equipment. In my case, the real killer is that I don't know a real drummer to record with.
Lack of time - my life is busy. I have kids, a wife and a business that I run. When I get involved in a project, I become temporarily obsessed and can think of little else while the gears are spinning. But reality inhibits my ability to feed that obsession, and its sometimes easier to say its done when maybe it really isn't.
Underdeveloped recording skills - I would like to think I am good at recording, but know in reality that I am not. If I could track and mix half as well as I can play guitar, then my outputs would be better. This should improve with time (see previous point).
General laziness - I'm not proud to admit this, but I work hard, am getting older and sometimes get lazy when I record. Maybe this is related to the second point, but I sometimes feel so fricking lazy. But then, maybe my expectations are too high...
So that's it for me. What holds you all back in the studio? Or are you satisfied with all of your inputs and outputs?
Cheers for your thoughts,
Chris
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The Man With No Band
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2/11/2009 1:43:13 PM
Hi Chris...
Well for me the limited resources ranks right up there ... but ... it is mostly my lack of knowledge in the recording field ... I'm a guy who just loves to play, but hates the tedious task of recording ...
Part of that lies in my disorganization and my disorganized way of doing things ...
I've never taken any classes on recording and I'm kind of a "well you show me how it's done" kind of guy ... I pick things up pretty fast IF I can see them done visually ...
I've read tons of manuals and they just leave me feeling stupid ...
Give me a box of parts and I can build you a microphone or guitar or the taj mahal from scratch ... but ...
Give me a manual and well ... come back in a year and the manual will be wore out and I won't be any smarter about the subject than I was the first day I opened it up .. LOL
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Chris Mahon
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2/12/2009 11:23:32 AM
Hi bro, thanks! I know what you mean. I guess we're the only ones that have limitations though, hehe. Everyone else must be all set. ;p
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Jesse Adams
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2/12/2009 11:58:48 AM
Cool blog.
Sometimes for me it's a lack of available tracks... I'm blessed with much time for recording that's for sure.
I like where I'm at for the most part right now as far as gear and recording, but the HUGE thing that holds me back every day is my general lack of ability to play... well, at least to where I want to be at. I'm only about half way to where I need to be in order to fully utilize what I hear in my head or what I'm capable of... and yet, I find it hard at times to keep the drive up enough to practice a lot every day to get to that level... there's so many things I like to do, playing guitar for 6 hours a day would get....... dare I say it...... boring? IDK man, I need a little more discipline when it comes to that. They should make a pill for that. Fuck ED! haha
Peace
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Conversation Suicide
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2/12/2009 12:47:06 PM
I feel you guyz on the resources, versus not being satisfied with the skill level of your instrumentation & the VISION of how it SHOULD sound.
Luckily, I just stick to what I know, BASS & vocals/backup vocals, that way my vision can usually match the execution.
But again--- Financial resources are the main issue-- that's why we've now got, like, 10 LIVE tunes up. My preferred method of recording is in a REAL studio, done professionally, but it's been about 2 years since we've had that luxury....
Uh... the only other thing I would add, MY goal is always to have a tune that can be reproduced live....LIVE is where it's at -- and that's how I believe you're going to be able to sell merch, and push your CDs... The funny thing is, almost ALWAYZ, by the time we get the mulah for studio time, and actually record professionally, and then the song is mixed & mastered with an unbiased professional ear (I use this awesome dude- Bradley Torrison) --- the band members have CHANGED again!
So our actual studio tunes are almost alwayz what we had come up with for that moment in time, and then the LIVE version comes out DIFFERENT, because I'll have a different guitar player, or two. And unfortunately, a different drummer as well.
But, ONE day -- I hope to have the resources going strong enough, and this ROMULUS X Records UK LABEL thing happenin' for reals, so that it's EASIER to keep the same musicians around, because the REWARDS are there for them....
Anyhoo -- Bottomline: The guitar & drums are usually with a bit of poetic license for the players that I've got at the time. In the studio, I have alwayz done the BASS & Drums together, to catch the MAGIC of that moment. And then we lay all the other tracks on top of that. So, we DON'T do the click track thingeee...
'course it's all a moot point, until we can get the resources goin' to hit an actual studio again!
-my two cents
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/12/2009 12:56:25 PM
like Phlegm------We love to sound the same "live" as we do in the studio and often we record live and just add a few bits after!!
---funny that our top 2 songs are both older Tascam 4 tracks ---so obviously all the recording skills we have honed can't beat our best "Live" sound
---is this a problem or a benefit?------ depends on where you stand!!
our mantra when things go wrong---"if it wasn't this-- it would be something else!"
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The CODE
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2/12/2009 1:12:19 PM
Live - YEAH!
What else is there???
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Chris Mahon
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2/12/2009 1:52:49 PM
---- Updated 2/12/2009 1:53:23 PM
Interesting thoughts guys. Live shows and studio time have always fed each other for me. Recording has tended to define songs, and playing them live has given them focus. Or is it the other way around?
But I don't feel many limitations when I play live. Only in the studio. ;p
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never never band
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2/12/2009 1:59:18 PM
lack of time...
raising two kids and running my own small business (of which I am he only employee) ....
and teaching 5 classes a week and 3 private students...(soon to be 2, i'm kicking one of them who doesn't practice)
I have all the guitars I dreamed of 10 years ago, but I dont have time to record them!!
:-)
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Chris Mahon
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2/12/2009 2:04:22 PM
haha, so true! 15 years ago I had all the time in the world, but no money. Now I have plenty of money, but now time. Not fair!
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Jesse Adams
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2/12/2009 6:03:59 PM
I'm telling you guys, if you're still spending a bunch of money to go into a studio to record, you're throwing it away when you can buy your own gear and get just as good recordings whenever you have the time... and CHEAPER in the long run.
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The Man With No Band
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2/12/2009 6:07:02 PM
Jesse .... that only applies if you can figure out the recording process ! ... I've been working at it for 3 or 4 years now ... and just when I think I'm getting better ... I pull out an old tune and see that my improvement is marginal at best ...
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Jesse Adams
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2/12/2009 6:12:31 PM
Yeah well, I can do it... how hard can it be?
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Bob Elliott
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2/12/2009 6:28:02 PM
THought about this last couple days.
Nothing really holds me back other than time I can put into it. I mean, something's gonna grow whenever I put in time, and I put in pretty much, but oh how we'd give up our day jobs....
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The Man With No Band
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2/12/2009 6:42:47 PM
What's a day job ?
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Bob Elliott
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2/12/2009 6:51:55 PM
Something craved by a lot of America at this point...
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The Man With No Band
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2/12/2009 6:54:35 PM
Well ... I haven't had one for over 7 tears now ... and I sure don't miss it ...
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Jesse Adams
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2/12/2009 8:02:05 PM
Yes Sam but some people have families to feed... or a home or a ton of mindless stuff to pay for.
You are a very lucky man to be as free from financial burden as you are. It's rare it this country.
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never never band
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2/12/2009 8:04:46 PM
---- Updated 2/12/2009 8:04:46 PM
Jesse, I've got a decent G5 based LOGIC8 studio, only 4 inputs, but thats all I need.
cheap but good little pair on moniters.
My little G5 is starting to choke though, I need a faster box to run Logic8 with all the tracks and plugins I end up using..But my gear is acting up, my interface is noisy and I cant figure out why and I'm too damn busy to deal with it...
sigh
A good friend of mine has a serious Protools studio, all the front end gear you could want and then Two real Nieve channels or a killer Dangerous 2Bus summing amp.When my gear works and my head is clear I can do a lot at home though, I use the studio for mixing and for the final bounce and for Vocals because I dont really have a good vocal mic (he has a lawson) .
But shit, right now I dont have a room, all my shit is in my bedroom!!
I LOVE being in a good studio though, listening to it all on Genelec Monitors and a really well designed mixing environment...soft light and racks of neat gear!!!
a nice big tracking room....
I fucking love it.
But really I should invest in a faster Box for home, I need an INTEL MAC, but If I spend another 2 Large on my "Hobby" right now my wife will kill me in my sleep......
The guys from my old band STICKY PISTIL are all bugging me to record a new CD though, we figure if we don't do it this year we'll be so old and beat up we'll never get to it, so there's some hope of a serious project.
I can get us a 7 day lockdown in the studio, if mark and I really prepare our work (and if we are still able to do any work that's worth a shit) we could do it in that..
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Conversation Suicide
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2/12/2009 11:26:12 PM
Wow ---this has shaped into a GREAT post, Mr. Mahon.....
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Diego B
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2/13/2009 2:22:30 AM
I got a day job...so, if I'd only had the time...
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Auset
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2/13/2009 8:00:43 AM
time... without interruptions.
The spin never stops around here. Plus, we work from home... all music related work. We are St. Louis' main analog mastering suite, and build hand-wired tube preamps and pedals... and after working on everyone else's music and needs, then 3 kids, in a very cozy house... got plenty of tools, plenty of instruments, plenty of inspiration... just no real private space and awake time.
that's one reason why I'm here less.
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/13/2009 8:06:33 AM
Wow, interesting Auset...that is a very cool thing you got going there.......
and running your own business and having some kind of life with balance is a challenge indeed......I just turned down on working for a cover band....just too much. that and teaching music and the odd promotional thing for artists plus my own life...it begins to consume you. I am going to the Yukon and Alaska in the Summer ,.yahoo....
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Chris Mahon
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2/14/2009 1:08:39 AM
Hey, great posts everyone. Thanks for all the input!
It looks like "time" is something we all wish we had more of. I know it's very high on my list!
I've been thinking more about this, and "patience" is something which I also seem to have in short supply. I just missed a delivery of some new tubes/valves for my pre-amp, and now I have to wait until Monday! hehe
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Black Velvet Lace
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2/17/2009 4:17:41 PM
Great post Chris, great discussions all.
My limitations in no particular order:
Lazy time management
Health related issues
Lack of songwriting talent
Lack of recording capabilites.. soon to be much improved thanks to Ken and the Jims ;)
~Lace~
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John Pippus
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2/17/2009 6:27:27 PM
i agree, cool thread. thanks everyone.... it helps to know we all face similar challenges... mostly though, for me, its important not to beat myself up for what i don't have, but to look back and see how far i've come... there's always going to be more to learn/have/do but enjoying the process along the way has to be there.... being creative is its own reward.
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Chris Mahon
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2/18/2009 7:19:50 PM
Hi Lace!
Thanks for the post. Nice to meet you here at IAC.
Chris
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Chris Mahon
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2/18/2009 7:22:23 PM
Hi John Pippus!
Wow, your post sums it all up really. I sometimes find it hard not to want everything all at once! But it is so true that we should be thankful that we can imagine music, make music, and listen to music. What a great world we live in!
Thank you sir for your perspective.
Chris
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/18/2009 8:53:48 PM
-"----- to look back and see how far i've come------- "
right Mr Pippus---
-3 years back we had never had a tune up---or had a clue how to make a wav into an mp3---or how to post a pic or a vid---or met any of the great artists here!!!!----and added their music to our 14 stations (most in top 100)
now have 5 sites---99,000 plays on one---all started with a myspace site!!!
Wow I FEEL GOOD!
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Kevin White
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2/18/2009 9:26:59 PM
Time.
... but a word on resources ...
It doesn't take much more than a couple good mics, a good preamp/console and a good computer w/ adequate sound card.
Electronic Musician put a competent studio together in an article for less than $1500, in total. That sounds about the right range to me ... I think that's all my stuff would go for. The firepower you can get in a $500 computer these days is stunning.
From there, it's only a little recording knowledge and a lot of listening closely.
Kev-
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Richard Scotti
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2/18/2009 10:50:27 PM
What holds me back is the inability to record vocals at home. I simply can't make that much noise in my apartment building. There's no room for a vocal booth and I couldn't afford it anyway. I record most instruments direct but there's no way to record vocals quietly without a vocal booth. Because of this I'm forced to to take my work and dump it to Pro Tools in my friend's basement and record the vocals there.
Since I have to work around his limited schedule, I can't just do it whenever I want and it's very frustrating. I can't afford to go to an actual recording studio so I'm stuck in my present scenario.
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Black Velvet Lace
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2/19/2009 4:52:58 AM
Likewise Chris!
xox
~Lace~
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Sly Witt
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2/19/2009 3:30:44 PM
The big one is definitely 'time'. It's the ONLY thing of which we've all got a limited amount.
The second biggest thing is the lack of other musicians with which to create.
The reasons for the lack of time are the things that others have written already. A wife who demands we have a home and some nice things to put in it, physical limitations (the need for sleep), laziness, social obligations, and other interests (like this forum).
When I was in my early 20's I could spend all day, every day with my music and I was surrounded by other people in the same situation. It was a glorious time! Like most, I didn't make a fortune or even much of a living, so I ended up getting a 'day job'. I was still pretty prolific.
The reason for the lack of musical synergy is that lot of my contemporaries grew out of their music 'phase'. I've never been able to. If I don't do it I get a heartache. I've envied them, but never for long. I really miss having folks to bounce things off of. Communities like this one are the closest I get these days.
About 15 years ago, in my late 30's I tried to give 'everything' to my music once again. I quit my day job and started a recording studio.
I ended up having LESS time for MY music than I did before because when I wasn't recording other folks I drove a taxi in order to keep 'food on the table'. (Those 12 hour shifts were a killer, tip your cabbies!) I ended up doing video jobs to supplement the studio income and then somehow we ended up with video production as the focus. We were a fairly successful video production company but I ended up putting my energy into scrambling to keep my employees in a job and pretty much exhausted myself physically and mentally. In other words, my plan went horribly array.
I have less musical material of my own from that period of 'giving it all' to my music than any other period of my life.
(It wasn't a total loss. I picked up computer skills, was asked to write a column in an international video magazine and found I liked to write, met a bunch of interesting people, and did a couple of meaningful video pieces).
For the last few years I again have a '9 to 5' job and am getting older and more tired but I'm back in my 'music groove'. I think I understand now why Einstein did his most creative work when he had an obscure civil service job.
I didn't mean to go into a bio here...and I'm not even sure what my point is... I guess it's that 'things are what they are' and maybe just the way they're supposed to be. As an adult, I'm built to have a different kind of freedom than I did when I was younger.
I've been trying to hook up with other folks with a like mind, but it's a lot harder than when I was 20. The closest I've found to the creative synergistic 'scene' from my youth is internet collaborations, and I'm just starting to scratch the surface of those.
I'm just grateful to have what little time I do for my music and that there is technology that helps me to fill in for some of the missing people, because when I am 'in my music' I am timeless, I am young, I am as big as the Universe, I am as free as a bird....but even birds have to eat.
In three days, I'm flying south for a few wonderful weeks in the sun. I'm taking my laptop, a keyboard, and a guitar. I hope it'll be a little like when I was 20.
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John Pippus
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2/19/2009 5:26:02 PM
great post, slywitt.... enjoy your three week 'dream time'...
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Chris Mahon
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2/21/2009 9:19:01 AM
Wow, thank you slywitt for your thoughts on this. I can really relate to your story!
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