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Two Silo Complex
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3/24/2016 1:17:16 PM
Does anyone put any merit at all into reverbnation rankings?
I know that you can buy plays at reverbnation to make it look like more people listen than they do. I also know the ranking can be manipulated.
Does anyone put much of any validity to the reverbnation ranking system?
If you like my work and are at reverbnation join me there as a fan.
TSC,
Ken
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Raandy
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3/24/2016 1:48:21 PM
Their trick is to tell you you're in the top 10 in the tiniest municipality (Doohickey Missouri) and this will get you to click on their site.
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Two Silo Complex
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3/24/2016 1:56:40 PM
---- Updated 3/24/2016 2:00:59 PM
Yes Randy,
I am aware that they give small local areas to give the perception of success where there might be none.
I am also aware they use this misleading tactic to convince people to buy service to further promote themselves which from what I can tell may not have any benefit.
They also have regional and national and other ranking systems.
I am wondering in general if anyone find the rating system they use actually beneficial or correct in anyway or if its all smoke and mirrors.
From what I have seen and heard it does not seem to mean much of anything.
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Father Time
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3/24/2016 2:01:59 PM
I don't know how they do their ratings but I find it to be probably the biggest example ever of a prefab corporate site.
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Two Silo Complex
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3/24/2016 2:05:55 PM
Father time do you also consider bandcamp to be a prefab corporate site?
I see a lot of artists use bandcamp and reverbnation as well as facebook and other outlets for promotional purposes and fan outreach.
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Father Time
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3/24/2016 2:13:16 PM
Bandcamp is corporate but not prefab. I like it better than reverb but whoever does their features is idiotic. :)
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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3/24/2016 4:20:59 PM
Reverb Nation is full of artists/ but no listeners IMO
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Two Silo Complex
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3/24/2016 6:10:48 PM
Why do you say that Silverwood did you have a page and get no plays?
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Noah Spaceship
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3/24/2016 6:33:53 PM
Reverb who?
Soundcloud is good.
I find ranking systems to be convoluted and dangerous to the psyche.
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Two Silo Complex
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3/24/2016 9:04:52 PM
@noah
What is it that you find about soundcloud that you like which makes it "good" in your opinion compared to bandcamp and other available sites?
TSC,
Ken
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Stoneman
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3/24/2016 9:15:30 PM
Well I have been ranked #1 in R&B in Clayton several times. But the joke is that Clayton only has 10,000 people and I am probably the only Black musician here. For a long time I was the only Black person. Hahahaha #1 is a very relative term. No, I don't pay any attention to Reverb rankings. I just don't believe the hype deserves any consideration.
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Brody Sheale
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3/24/2016 9:19:29 PM
Soundcloud cranks up its stats according to a friend of mine, they are not to be trusted. On top of that they're in financial trouble and may be going out of business soon.
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Noah Spaceship
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3/24/2016 10:56:59 PM
I like Soundcloud because of it's diversity and the fact that there is a TON of non musician types who are there mining for music for playlists that they actually listen to. Their site is full of cool navigation and interactive features as well.
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Noah Spaceship
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3/24/2016 11:01:32 PM
..also, I don't have anything against other sites, I just don't use them, and again, ranking systems have been flawed from day one at all the sites I've been to.
You know when you connect with people, I don't see any use of stats unless you are trying to impress A&R, who will either like you or not, and if you network well enough, and play the game, you will have an opportunity to be heard. We all know deep down where we rank when we look in the mirror. :)
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3/25/2016 2:22:38 AM
well if stats are totally on the mark, you can learn about who is listening and from where, and even other things. That's what we're going to be going for here at IMP before too long.
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Two Silo Complex
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3/25/2016 7:19:03 AM
@ scott I agree if the ratings are correct they show you which markets give you the most bang for your buck if you choose promotions. Obviously you promote in areas with the most listeners. Or you could take the other route and promote in areas with few listeners to get more exposure in those area. For me you go where you have a base of fans instead of building one where there is none.
@silverwood I misunderstood what you said the first time. Yes reverbnation is full of only artists bands and individual players. I find that bands also listen to see what other bands are playing so as far as I am concerned a play is a play and if they are a band or an individual player if they are listening to the music they are a listener but I don't there that is anyone on reverbnation that is not involved in music in some capacity.
@ stoneman have you found your # 1 rating in r & b ranking valuable in anyway? Brand marketing is important in my opinion. I don't think these rating mean much to anyone but I wonder if you have found any benefit from your #1 rating?
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Stoneman
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3/25/2016 10:07:40 AM
Oh it looks impressive on the page but what good is it to look impressive if not many people are looking at it. Of course part of the fault of that is the fact that I don't promote my Reverb page at all. I use to but I found it way too time consuming with very little qualitative results. So, no I haven't found any benefit to being ranked #1 in tiny ass Clayton. Now, if it was San Francisco or Oakland, well that would be very impressive considering the large amount of artists there. But I doubt that even a #1 ranking for those cities (who are close to mine) would get much more than some pride in being ranked #1. The only ranking I have been shooting for that would be beneficial to me are the Billboard charts. Those rankings actually create a buzz for you. But these musicians website rankings only add confidence that you are performing well on those sites. Having data about song rankings does help you to decide which songs you should be marketing/pitching.
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Steve White
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3/25/2016 10:13:31 AM
I do it just for the plays. I have over 1800 plays right now. That's probably more plays than all the other sites I belong to combined.
Don't really care about the rank cause I have no idea how they do that but yes I like the plays. I post songs on FB almost every week and they get played.
Steve
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Two Silo Complex
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3/25/2016 12:13:54 PM
---- Updated 3/25/2016 12:17:09 PM
@ stoneman
I agree with what you said:
"Having data about song rankings does help you to decide which songs you should be marketing/pitching."
@ Steve
Would you say you get more feedback from fans on facebook or reverbnation?
Have you found either facebook or reverbnation page more valuable?
As stoneman hinted at you can spend a lot of time chasing your own tail. If I'm going to spend time and energy into promotions then I want to do that in the site that will give me the most bang for my buck be it soundcloud or reverbnation or faceboook bandcamp.
So I'm trying to find out what route other artists have chosen what has worked and what has not worked and what on these sites is a good indicator that the songs are hitting the audience.
I have to say I've been very surprised by me reverbnation results my unexpected run-a-way track there is my song abecedarian's plight and a close second is shadows in the midst. I would have thought shadows would beat out abecedarian's plight but it seems to have hit a specific core group of 18-24 year old males that are attracted to its message of rebellion.
TSC,
Ken
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Steve White
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3/25/2016 4:55:27 PM
Hi Ken
They're split pretty evenly between FB, RN and Twitter. As far as who plays them? I'm pretty sure it's mostly FB. I'll get someone that follows me on twitter send a note saying how great my songs are but I should buy beats from them. When I check the stats.. no change so no they did not listen to anything, it's fine though. I do have a following on Twitter and my songs get retweeted and marked as a favorite so I figure those people actually listen.
But the mass of plays I think is from FB.
Steve
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Noah Spaceship
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3/25/2016 5:48:03 PM
Very interesting thread. I find it enlightening reading all of your views on these topics.
I know Scott loves charts and was extremely disappointed by the system in place here to the point of nearly taking a pass all together on running the site.
With that said, Youtube offers all of the above.
Youtube spends an epic amount of attention and resources on analytics, and it is THE biggest place in the world as far as music streaming, believe it or not. You can also monetize and make real money if you have something that is trending.
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Two Silo Complex
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3/25/2016 8:51:19 PM
@ Noah
Agreed youtube can be a valuable tool in the toolbox. My video there has not had much traction but I don't think people understand it is the album art. Looking at it now I should have added the track lists and things that would have made that more clear but my track list is still undecided and I wanted to test the waters.
So far you tube has had failed results for me.
I find all the replies very interesting. I consider brand marketing an important aspect and I would like to spend my time marketing and promoting where it would have the most impact.
TSc,
Ken
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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3/29/2016 4:52:56 PM
Hello Ken
We have had a site there for a few years, and have about 6,000 plays, but it is a musos site---all the viewers are other bands
here is the URL for our site https://www.reverbnation.com/silverwoodstudio?profile_view_source=status_update
presently we are #1 in Blues charts for Nelson city
cheers Rob
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3/29/2016 4:56:50 PM
I have to say, I find they're all pre-fabricated corporate sites...
there's only one here, and here it is already. Can't Beat The IMP.
I'm Lesley, a big fat rock n roll who I am, and I bloody well insist upon it.
There you are. Don't spend it all in one place.
What. Doesn't mean you can't like it.
Just means, I'm done with every other site but here.
I'm here. The band's here. We have like, one or two songs
on a couple other sites, which we've already abandoned
and forgotten about... because Time's correct,
he's not just blowing sunshine up your skirts....
This IS a place were the Artists are Appreciated. Truly.
There is No Place Like It.
That's the fact, Jack.
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Two Silo Complex
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3/29/2016 6:55:24 PM
Thanks for your info Rob and your thoughts ALJ
as far as promoting goes this site has not had much impact for me
I'll probably get strung up on a rope for saying so but as Steve pointed out there are for more plays happening at other sites
Now I like the community here and I like Scott well enough and he has bent over backwards for me literally so I'm not bashing this site I'm just looking to increase my influence and want to do so at a venue that will provide the most exposure.
Ken
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3/30/2016 9:23:45 AM
Well, Ken, by all means, good luck with that.
No other site has ever done squat for us.
Maybe it'll be different for you, who are we to say.
We like it here though...
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Two Silo Complex
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3/30/2016 9:48:36 AM
Well as they say ALJ "nothing ventured nothing gained" I'm also here pretty frequently and I don't know if I'll have any better luck anywhere else. My "success" at reverbnation I can't say is mind blowing either.
I have not yet decided where else I should spend my efforts. I really despise facebook but its hard to resist its numbers.
Reverbnation has taught me a few things though that were helpful. am hopeful that the next chapter where ever that may be will be even more successful. Baby steps.
I do enjoy your thoughts and appreciate your reply.
Ken
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3/30/2016 11:58:46 AM
To my way of thinking,
it's not so much the site that creates a buzz about you,
it's you, what are you doing, where are you going,
where are you taking us, what new thing might you have to say,
what superioriciously better stated old thing might you have to say.
what audacious thing might you have to say.
what completely fucking outrageous thing might you have to say.
they say, 'success does not just happen,
you have to set yourself on fire first.'
Just my luck, not only am I fucking retarded
(sorry Folks, she/he is fucking retarded and she/he, does get to say so!
Them's the rules!!)
but I am also, sadly, flame retardant. Imagine My Chagrin!
But I keep trying....
I've gotten to a state of excellence,
and even that these days doesn't seem to 'do it'.
I'd have to probably be more of an asshole than I know how to be.
It's a very real dilemma.
It must take...
oh right.
Just thought of the perfect example.
Of what it may take, today.
Two words.
And they're not pretty words.
Donald. And, Trump.
If he's any clue, to 'what's going on today and what it takes to be famous'
you may as well come up
with a record along the lines of
"Gee I Love To Shag Fat Girls"
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3/30/2016 12:01:28 PM
That's not bad, mate. Mind if we use it?
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3/30/2016 12:08:05 PM
I had to come back on to see just who in the hell is calling themselves "The Complete Dicks"....
Okay. I think I've seen everything now.
Draw Ye Near To Ye Loved Ones The End Is Nigh!
And, well sure, uh, um, how am I supposed to address you lot anyway?
Go with easy slang I guess. Sure, Dicks, why not use it.
If you can actually come up with a song called that which works,
by all means, Kids. Don't wait 'round for me to do it!
LOL
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Two Silo Complex
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3/30/2016 12:20:59 PM
Thanks for your thoughts ALJ very interesting.
And thanks to the complete dicks for the comedy addition. Good luck with that record.
HA HA..
TSC,
Ken
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3/30/2016 12:25:04 PM
You're very welcome Ken.
I just read another post from these hooligans
where they said some pretty rude and obnoxious things to me.
Oh not to worry Dear, I'm a big girl, I can hold my own.
I doubt they're kidding though, having read what comes out of this bunch.
I've checked their page, they don't have any records at all out.
Heluva lot of nerve for no records.
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Two Silo Complex
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3/30/2016 12:51:07 PM
If they are not kidding it makes it all the more funny.
Ken
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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3/30/2016 1:53:52 PM
---- Updated 3/30/2016 1:54:36 PM
Here is a site we use which does have more listeners than artists, and shows who is listening to your musicwe do get views here from a range of countries including Israel and Europe-but they like to charge $$$
http://www.jango.com/music/silverwoodstudio
ALJyep IMP is our favorite place too, but biz is to get it out there!
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3/30/2016 2:06:41 PM
Well, good luck to you youngsters....
I just don't have the energy anymore for this site and that site,
I took a look at that jango site,
and only felt befuddled. No, it's all I can do to be here,
make my records, put 'em out, and go make dinner.
Maybe I'm getting too old for all of this.
But I do enjoy making records. I like makin' 'em.
Sometimes I even still listen to them.
The idea though is make 'em good enough
that other people wanna listen to 'em.
I would say I envy the young with the energy still to do all that,
join every site out there, I just can't be bothered with that anymore.
What will be, will be. That's how it is for me. Good Luck though...
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Two Silo Complex
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3/30/2016 6:28:22 PM
Silverwood I went to jango and in the FAQ it says its free.
What do they charge for?
"Is jango.com free?
Oh yes! Totally free. "
ALJ,
I also like it here I'm not going anywhere but I might venture to one or two other sites if I have the time.
You put out fantastic music and I might add a hell of a lot better than some half your age keep those hits coming.
Ken
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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3/30/2016 8:07:36 PM
ALJ----your music speaks for itself---and you are full of life from my view !
Ken----yes it is free, but like RN they are always plugging their services---they even show you the facebook pages of your listeners/fans
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3/30/2016 8:43:43 PM
My experience with Jango though it was a few years ago was that it was a scam. So I did a search under "Jango is a scam" and there were a number of links there. My own feeling is that the sites listed here in this thread don't care if you live or if you die. I believe you should get your music out there as much as you can but I don't feel that comfortable with other sites being promoted here.
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3/31/2016 8:03:32 AM
Thank you Ken, Thank you Silverwood....
And Scott, I sure don't blame you, Buddy.
I can't blame you at all...
sure, go, expose your work to whomever you can, wherever you can,
but that really doesn't have to be a thing to overly emphasize here....
I just wish I'd fall into a pile of money....
I would buy up a ton of advertising for this place, because it is worthy.
BEATLESEX still wants to do an 'Indie Music People dot com" themesong,
we just wanna make sure it's also great. And not just a commercial.
So it has to be really swiftly clever. So that it's a commercial
so good you like it anyway even after realizing, "Hey, I like a commercial!"
Scott makes a very good point,
and it really is not one to take lightly.
The other sites really DON'T give a crap if you live or if you die.
That sounds like easy words to rattle off, but it happens to be true.
Even SoundClick, which I was with over Ten F***ing Years,
one day decided to make life so impossible for me, on purpose,
that they got what they wanted; they chased me away.
I might be dead now, were it not for Scott having
fortuitously convinced me, just before all the crap with SoundClick started
happening, to set up shop here.
I liked the personal touch of it.
I liked that the CEO of this site, which I did remember from
years ago when it was "IAC", contacted me personally,
and said "you gotta come join us!"
Money can't even buy that. It can't, it never will.
Which is why I am more than happy to be a part
of the Triple C Club,
not to turn this thread into a commercial for that,
but then again,
probably better to have it end up a commercial for that,
then these other sites, that for real really don't care
if we live or if we die.
So, in answer to the thread's very question:
No, Ken. Not a bit. All the other sites suck dogs,
and that's just how I feel about it, and how I am going to feel about it.
And TOTALLY Thank You Ken, and Silverwood,
and anyone else who's ever appreciated a record I've made,
for the kind words.
They are VERY Much Appreciated.
Sincerely,
God Bless, Very Much Love,
~Lesley Jane
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Two Silo Complex
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3/31/2016 8:08:42 AM
Scott I am not promoting anything or any other sites I was asking a general question about if other artists have had success at other sites or not and if so which ones. Noah responded to my blog that he thought the information was interesting to him.
I even went as far to say that I despise facebook and I have said that before. I also said that you personally have bent over backwards for me and that I do like the community here. Lesley was praising the site and said he does not want to be anywhere else.
We all know that IMP is not the only site on the block. I am not coming on here saying IMP sucks and that I found these other great sites that are much more useful. In fact I questioned several times if the statistics from these sites mean much of anything.
This is a site about discussing music is it not? I will be very disappointed in IMP if this blog is removed. I think its pretty safe blog and if anything highlights reasons why people like it here and that other sites might give illusions to the artist and you are right I know they do not care.
IMP actually supports artists and cares about them.
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3/31/2016 8:38:47 AM
Well, I'll stick up here, and love me anyway please, I said please,
for Ken's inalienable right to post this, completely reasonable post.
After all, IMP still comes out ahead.
Well you do, because you always have me, Darling.
But that said, you know, outside of my flippant 'sucks dogs'
remark about other site's rating system,
I'll try to put it this way:
It all means squiggle diggle.
There is no substitute for unbridled creativity,
and there is no atmosphere likely to foment said creativity,
like an artistic community found only here at IMP.
There is not another place like it.
Where we are all, here and now?
This is what you call,
"Getting in at the Ground Level".
Because Ladies & Gentlemen,
what you do not know, what Scott may not even know,
and yet, Yes, I'm here telling you I Do Know,
is that IMP is gonna be...
HYUUUGE.
Pardon the term.
We're a Social Bonfire just about to happen, any minute now.
And that's bigger than, well, any one of us, even me, and
that was hard to say, I admit it.
It's because, our Collective Will Here,
you, me, him, her, everybody,
even some guys who don't even have a record
yet and proudly refer to themselves as 'complete dicks' (God help us all)....
It's All About To Hit Critical Mass.
So, sure, go to other sites, if you think that's making any difference for ya.
But what I am saying,
is that, well
a laser beam, how it works; it's focused light,
light, focused to a pinpoint, in one spot.
And this here? Indie Music People,
we're the spot, see.
It's gonna happen in IMP City...
I'll be with My Girl she's so pretty....
Yeah that's right, I like girls. Who knew.
Ken's alright, his post is alright,
and IMP IS THE BEST.
Best, Best, BEST.
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3/31/2016 8:44:16 AM
by the way, IMP has something very big coming soon.
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Two Silo Complex
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3/31/2016 11:40:30 AM
Thank you Scott and ALJ.
I will say that I think IMP offers a unique ability to interact with an artist community in a way that I have not seen anywhere else and I think its fantastic. I have benefited from being a part of the community.
I will also say that IMP truly does support artist where other sites well if you fall of the earth they could care less.
I think we are all excited about what the future of IMP brings.
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