for the fans by Noah Spaceship on The Pipeline at IndieMusicPeople

for the fans
OK,.. You show me a musician and I will show you a fan.
Some of us started out our musical endeavor in our youth and maybe before we had an arsenal of favorite musicians/performers. But aren't we probably some of the most savvy musical supporters/fans? I sure as hell know what I like and why I like it. I often get turned off by an artist because of something they said or did, and much like scopping knob at the bar, lose interest in a member of the opposite sex and find myself at the point of no return. No redemption for the snobby barbie bitch, right? I came really close to losing all respect for Josh (the man) from Queens of the Stone age because of his attitude, but at the same time, my respect increased for him, becasue he takes no shit.
Well, here we are, blogging away at IAC. I have implyed several times that some of you here (maybe even me) suck up to other artists to get plays, station adds, etc.,.. Well I for one became a fan of several artists, not because of their music, but because of their POVs, and their rock n roll attitudes. I have also stated before that the pipeline is essentially our stage here at IAC. The pipeline is our chance to shine and attract the fans and listeners. The point I am trying to make is, would you want to click on your link after reading your posts? Are we aware of what we like yet contradict that in the way we conduct ourselves here at IAC?
I try to bring thought provoking shit to the table to chew on, and I piss some people off by calling out the circle jerkers because it turns me off. But do any of you really think that being too nice and cordial is the way to go? Keeping up apearances is facadical and wrong, no? I mean if you are totally honest, does patronization of another work for you? Do you as a fan want to witness that? Let's try using some empathy. If you were a lurker (non poster, just reader) what would you want to see? What would you be attracted to? What makes you want to click an artist link to check it out? What would truly represent your music in a post?

I really enjoy watching people. Not peeping tome style, just objective observer style. I like to witness social cliques and behavior patterns. That's just me. But in my years of saoking up what I can from my peers I find myself more and more repulsed by congeniality, and more turned on by blunt up front, confrontational truth. Does that mean I am all seeing and knowing? Fuck yeah, compared to most for sure. And I think my music/art represents that.
Do I think I am the beez kneez? Often times, yes I do. Does that make me a conceited jerk? Depends on who you ask.
How do rate yourself? Are you a total bore? Do your blogs excite you? Do you like your music? Would you click your own link if you were someone else?

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Hop On Pop

9/17/2009 12:41:22 PM

Interesting points you bring up here, Noah.
And, in response to what I like to see/hear from other artists:
What kind of music do THEY like?
What do THEY aspire to with their art?
And, yeah, I would love to talk music with someone like Ray Davies, Nick Lowe, Tom Zé (if I could speak Portugese), or any of my other musical heroes.

As to finding new music, I think that I DO want to hear about not only the artists' new releases (which none of us have trouble posting about), but about what's BEHIND that music. Where did it come from?
Who are the people that you listen to and why?
What turns you on, musically? And what are you going to do about it?

As to what I think about me:
I think that, if you don't like talking music or hearing about music, then I am a bore. But, if you like to talk music, I think that I can be pretty interesting, if you don't mind my incessant jabbering about it.

I do like my music.

And, I think that, based upon my blogs, I would click my link(s).

As far as sucking up to others:
If somebody genuinely moves me, I will let them know. Loudly.

If somebody is looking for feedback, I will find something positive to say, for them to build upon.

If I don't have something nice to say, I try not to say anything at all. There are enough people out there more than willing to cut somebody down just to build themselves up.

But, I don't mind being cut down by others. Everyone has an opinion, and not all of them match up. I know who I am and what I want to do.

Thanks for these blogs, Noah. They are thought-provoking. No sucking-up intended.

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Amanda Lewin

9/17/2009 12:45:39 PM

Hello, I will definitely be clicking to hear your music if you have it. Don't bother clicking for mine :) I'll let you know if your music reflects the quality of your your blog.

Am&a

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Jeff Allen Myers

9/17/2009 1:04:24 PM

Ooh Noah ...Amanda left you a cryptic message, I get the feeling she is hoping you will suck :)

Good Blog Fred, and all points well taken. First, I want to address some points. I have never sucked up to anyone here, and if anyone thinks I have they are mistaken...period. I anyone thinks I have, please call me on it.

As for blunt honesty and biting commentary from me? I have pointed out before I use my real name here. Both my professional "day Job" name and my artist name is real, and as such they affect my reputation. It is a fact everything we say or do on the internet can come back and have repercussions later. A present or future employer may read them, in fact some companies are doing searches as part of the employment screening process. What you write can come back to haunt you. For this reason I understand the reason to remain anonymous...

As for liking or disliking the material of others? If I like it you will probably know, if I think it is lacking my silence speaks volumes. I have also learned to interpret how my own songs go over, and the comments received are not the most important piece of the puzzle. You can read between the lines of nice comments to tell if someone really likes the song, or they are simply being cordial.

There are relationships on this site, many of us simply do not want to damage them in order to be more interesting.

However, I do appreciate your line of thinking and welcome your input. There are ways of being blunt without being hurtful with a slash and burn mentality. I have no tolererance for nastiness and vicious commentary simply to get a rise. There has to be some substance behind the negativity, and above all a little bit of respect...including respect for one's self.

Regards,

Jeff

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Noah Spaceship

9/17/2009 1:07:14 PM

@todd

absolutely agree with you. I have a hard time specifically breaking someone down. I certainly would not bring someone down in order to build myself up, quite the opposite. I encourage the timid to sprout some nuts. I consider these blogs as inspirational material and all around catalyst for controversy.

Lending insight to lurkers into 'who we really are' is vital online. There was a time when I thought my music spoke for itself, and in some ways it does, but at that point in my life, I felt like I didn't need to post a dorky bio or the lyrics etc. I didn't want to be classified as a bulletin board geek living in the blogosphere boinking myself. Fuck it though, we are what we are. I don't have a live band anymore, and I don't gig out in public,.. the blogosphere is my gig right now. I have allready seen the pipeline evolving over just the last couple of weeks. The Not the Pipeline is picking up steam too, and if I listen to my gut, I think even Stambaugh is getting the flambasting itch.

Tomorrow night the voting ends for the comp, and I hope the pipeline goes off with some real gritty sink your teeth into action. Winter is aproaching and people are going to be sitting at the PCs more. Harvest time is around the corner, I think it is a great time for the IAC regs to up their game and consider the possibility that maybe life is too short to run strictly on bilge pumps (bare necessities to stay afloat).

Am I talking about you specifically, todd? no. As a matter of fact, my personal opinion is that we could use active posters like you in double digits. Not only do you challenge many to know their musical trivia, but you are also a great target for critisism (that is not a bad thing IMO).

Controversy breeds drama, drama is like the train wreck in life you can't take your eyes off. Some say they don't like drama, I say they are in denial and the truth is they are drama whores.

I love controversy.

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Noah Spaceship

9/17/2009 1:21:13 PM

@jeff

I am not talkinga bout anybody particular, but moreover behavior that I have been guilty of myself. (but if the shoe fits)

The more I do the back and forth with you, the more I get to know you. My gripe and hate thread was totally tongue in cheek and kind of a social experiment on how people react to my sarcasm. I feel like I have gotton to know a few people raher well as a result, and hopefully lurkers did the same.

You bring up an excellent point in that certain individuals face reprcussions with their employment, etc. and anonymous posting is their only alternative if they want to sustain their livilihood. That is something I take for granted, the fact that I have my own business and clients that know me intimately. If I lose work because of what I post online, I didn't want their business to begin with. I am a man of principal and there are lines I won't cross for monitary gain. I do not hold others to that standard, and certainly don't want to take responsibility for someone choosing to engage in antics with me only to lose that livilihood, that would break my heart.
But art and life is merciless in that to acheive certain levels of portraying those aspects and creating something that represents a true form, comes with a price.
what are you willing to pay?

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9/17/2009 2:24:55 PM

Indie music sites are schmooze festivals. The only way to make progress is for one artist to convince another artist they're serious about liking that artist's songs and then the favor is often returned. It's a popularity contest not based at all on music. Congeniality is the backbeat. The best new artist on earth could be here and prolific and only a tiny handful would notice. Only 1 out of 30 indie artists actually listen to indie music for pleasure, most are completely consumed with pushing their own puke, period, even though some will try to charade you into thinking otherwise.

Being outrageous here and pretty much anywhere else like this would only make you a common enemy. You might find a few comrades but gaining any modicum of success for your music online begins with a non-abrasive personality and a graduate degree in sucking up, certainly not originality or cutting edge talent. Those things are irrelevant.

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Bryon Tosoff

9/17/2009 2:30:51 PM

Bluto barfed out

"Indie music sites are schmooze festivals. "
Bluto's rant is right on...this is exactly what Fred was talking about....
But there are some fine talents around here and other indie sites Bluto
That have it in their blood, real musicians, with talent, skill and they are well seasoned in their craft

gotta go make some money doing a real job. sitting answering anons will only get me in trouble

..well kinda
bryon

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Bananafishü

9/17/2009 2:42:33 PM

Bananafishü.

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Jeff Allen Myers

9/17/2009 3:46:39 PM ---- Updated 9/17/2009 3:47:18 PM

Well Blowtus I agree with you to a degree. However, Sucking up is not a prerequisite to getting heard on an indie site, but being visable and active certainly are. I do not "suck up", but I have no doubt whatever success I have on any site has to do with the time I take to contribute and be noticed. I have well over 100 stations playing my music here, I realize if I did not show up here on the Pipeline I would have only a fraction of the adds. I would like to think my music is good enough to be noticed on it's own, but the fact is even the most gifted artists among us have to work a bit to garner attention. For some, this may be "sucking up" for others it might simply be showing up daily. For me, I simply "show up" :)

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Noah Spaceship

9/17/2009 4:07:31 PM

bluto is exactly right

what do you do?

I'll tell ou what you do,..
Anygoddamn thing you can to change that fucked up reputation.
If it means you swallow your ego and bully through some horseshit rep, at the risk of being assimilated into the same circle jerk, you do it.

Will it always be that way?

Not if I have anything to do with it.
This aint my first time around the block.

And Fu, BLuto, just because the pipeline is chalk full of schmoozing whateverthefuck, doesn't mean IAC doesn't have fresh good shit.

I'll tell you one thing that pisses me off more than circle jerkers and that is self defeatist pussies

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Noah Spaceship

9/17/2009 4:18:51 PM

@bluto - I aint done yet

I am not here to bring all these folks down to keep them down, I am here to encourage them (along with myself) to rise up and do more with what they have, not fucking give up. I have found that getting pissed off aint all that bad. Getting a little worked up is good for the soul.

I could care less if I am a hate magnet, an anon magnet and if you think my aproach is futile. My aproach may be futile, but I will fight to the bitter end, stubborn obstinant prick will become my middle name before I give up.

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Noah Spaceship

9/17/2009 4:25:10 PM

I have a shitload more to say about the harsh truth in what bluto states, but I will save it for when my faculties return.

yeah yeah, i posted 3 times, i didn't want to edit.

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jingo

9/17/2009 11:15:35 PM

some stuff, FWIW:

Back in the good old analog days there were trusted hometown DJs and PDs that could, and would, play something you had never heard - local bands, demos, cuts from bands that were breaking in some other city. That's how it was in my market, anyway. Those days are gone, in my market, anyway.

Let's say that I heard something I thought was cool. As an example, I am going to use AC/DC Dirty Deeds/High Voltage era. The local rock station would play some cuts from time to time. We would rock out, but it wasn't until AC/DC rolled through town as an opening act that we really "got" them. I heard a replay of old interview the other day where Angus and Malcom were talking about how suprised they were on the first US tour, that folks in Texas ALREADY KNEW them. When I saw them live the first time they really clicked into place, Bon went from a kind of cartoony screechy near joke (from listening to the record) to one badass mofo and Angus became a new guitar hero.

(Hey - want a beer or something? I am about to drone on and on.)

Now let's drag our asses back to the good old digital 21st century, and "here". FM as I knew it died a long time ago, and you ain't on what's left of it (not in my market, anyway). No DJ is pushing you (not even the Overnite Delite), and you are not likely to roll through my town on tour. A great many of you couldn't really "tour" anyway (one man projects). You don't have a distribution deal, so you aren't at WalMart (unless you need socks or light bulbs). But you ARE on the new boob tube, the world wide wasteland - and consequently in just about every household in the developed world. Millions of drunk people with credit cards are your potential market.

So you stick your songs on the net, a needle in a haystack composed of needles. Now what?

(Nother beer, anybody? Need to piss, maybe?)

Think back to the early days of MTV (is that still on? Is Martha still on it?). Those that could crack the video nut had a very good shot at the brass ring (I mean, Madonna? Really? MADONNA? How in the eff did that happen?). This webby thing has been around, but really hasn't "caught on" yet - but some day soon something huge will come from it. I still have high hopes that we might see an internet superstar.

As a representative of the random douchebag public I can tell you that I need something more than a click-here-to-listen interface. I really need something analogous to the "live" performance aspect to get me fired up and make me a "fan". Since I first poked my head in here (Spring, maybe?) I have bought just 5 IAC related albums, all of them by people that, in some way, were able to use this new medium to break through the clutter, show me why their particular needle was sharper and shinier than all of the others in the pile.

I am just one guy, but you would all do quite well if there were an army of Me, I think that's what you want (to be honest, if there WAS an army of Me I would conquer your asses - "altruistism" is not among my virtues - but you get the idea?).

I hope you find some value in all this. If not, hey, at least I offered you a couple beers - or you could always ask another listener what they think. Whatever.

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Jeff Allen Myers

9/17/2009 11:51:03 PM ---- Updated 9/17/2009 11:51:40 PM

Nice Blog Jingo..I read it without getting brew or taking a p... You make some good observations, Thanks I appreciate it.

I do think the minute there was an "Internet" senation He/She/They would be co-opted by the greedy corporate bastids and they would try to cover up where they came from. They don't want the audience listening to unsigned bands, they want them on ITunes buying shit :)

I think "You Tube" is ruining it for us..... People are Visual by nature so most people spend more time watching videos. You tube is full of half assed singer/musicians getting more comments and listens then any of us. Some of it is downright awful...

I have thought about going that route, but then again I think hell no..the sound sucks and it would be boring as hell.

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Kevin White

9/18/2009 9:36:52 AM

Popular fame in the music business appears a young person's game.

Name an artist over 40 who has broken out ... even w/ vast net resource at their disposal.

So it doesn't matter what I think about myself. Reality doesn't give a shit.

So I do what I do and just try to do it as best I can ... and let the world take over from there.

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Kevin White

9/18/2009 9:41:42 AM

I mean, when Paul McCartney turns to Starbucks to market his new release, I'm not quite certain what the average indie expects and whether any expectation might simply be self-delusional false hope.

It's better to let the work speak for itself and enjoy the ride w/o caring where it goes.

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Noah Spaceship

9/18/2009 9:58:52 AM

@kevin - thanks for your comments, interesting observation about Paul.

"It's better to let the work speak for itself and enjoy the ride w/o caring where it goes."

I have to say that part of the work is marketing. As an unsigned act, we don't have the clout to get starbuck's attention let alone anyone with their digits in mainstream megabucks. I am not missing the point about Paul and the age demographic. The over 40 crowd is somewhat a marketing dilema. I suppose that is part of the motivation I have in pushing this.

Coheed and Cambria,.. those dudes are my age (late 30s) and my kids love em.

I hope I don't fall prey to the age coffin.

I hate golf ;)

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Bryon Tosoff

9/18/2009 10:21:41 AM ---- Updated 9/18/2009 10:53:24 AM

Get to work in the trenches, its all about developing your fanbase.....how....grow your product. be out their rubbing shouders with your fans....yeah marketing is part of it like I said in the past here many times....but you want to go out and jump in the cesspool against the dopes , those flipping asses and suits sitting in the record labels crunking out crap...be my guest...

I could go on in great lenght here....But I just find my time far more valuable then preach to the converted ones here, the crusty ones, the know it all flipping mouth pieces , the arrogant,. the bitchers.....the whiners....the worn out pissed ones, .do something, get off your ass,,,be who you are, not somebody else , move and do it all from the heart., ....dont be a phoney and push out copy cat contrived BS music...that means absolutely nothing. that is why the old stuff still resonates with us, because it was real, is real and came from the heart of those good bands, and of course there is a resurrection of sorts happening with great new talent coming up from al over ,.and in Canada we have freaking oddles of it....

I will provide some insight for those really interested in further their careers if they wish to email me privately

so you ask, who the hell are you , you are a nobody,.what do you know?
go find out testimonials on what I have done yeah I am being somewhat self serving and bragging. but I know how to promote...
you want to find out more about me. or do you really bloody care...
you know some musicians are wimps. weak, afraid to take their music out into the "REAL WORLD" for fear of rejection, and yes you will indeed get kicked in the balls many times over...but only the ones with passion will survive and succeed...And not just the ones with talent supreme make it...
those are the ones that usually give up...ah, wasting precious time here.

it is a long climb....some of you already know that....what ever , none of what I am saying here is going to be read by many who really give a crap.....they think they already know it all

bryon

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Noah Spaceship

9/18/2009 10:56:55 AM

Noah. You are cool with me most of the time, but right now I think you are a cocksucking prick for insulting the art that a very good, longtime friend created for me. It was done in GiMP. Not photoshop. How dare you insult my friend by calling his art windows shit. Fuck you.

---hahah!
Fu too buddy!

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Bryon Tosoff

9/18/2009 11:00:01 AM ---- Updated 9/18/2009 11:01:29 AM

i thought you were talking to me Fred

but perhaps you posted in the wrong place, no you were going back @ Larree I see

this place is just too much

what a mental institution this can be, half of us should be in the crazy house

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Noah Spaceship

9/18/2009 11:07:35 AM

@bryon

Yeah, allow me to say it again because it feels so good,.. very little pisses me off more than self defeatist pussies cowtowing to crickets.

Letting the music speak for itself is fine and dandy. If you have music that sprouts legs and a mouth and some managerial skills, maybe a few friends with some connections, I am certain it will get heard.

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Bryon Tosoff

9/18/2009 11:16:43 AM ---- Updated 9/18/2009 11:25:45 AM

yeah Right on

I have pissed off musicians with aspirations and told them I wont promote them cause their music wont been playlisted.....and anyone who takes them on will be just stealing their money...there are lots of unscrupolous (sp)people out there....who just do the smoke blowing tribute and offer up real bad advice.

and also I know there are many musicians here who are just here to have a place to upload their music so they have a launching pad so to speak to spread their good works about and have absolutely no intention of being out their being a "working" musician....who gigs, sells cds merchandise from the back of their car van scraping out an existance...
that is cool , but if you are a serious musician. plopping your music here at iac or myspace or where ever aint going to work....but for very few.......you got to work in the Trenches...build your fanbase in the grassroots, and the word spreads. like the proverbial mustard seed...but it takes time

again, most of you will read this a go .pft who cares..I am just here to click the button and listen to my cool music and get plays and enjoyment from listening to my cool music
ugh

Thats it
I need to get away from this place....it is making me go way past mental.....
where is Bluto when you really need him. probably the only stable thing around here

bryon.

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Noah Spaceship

9/18/2009 11:32:57 AM ---- Updated 9/18/2009 11:40:59 AM

@bryon
interesting you would bring that up. I received some really good advice from a veteran, much like you.
(without name dropping)
this gent played keys for a famous cowboy who died a few years ago from kidney failure, he also played with a famous brother sister duo (you may know who I am talking about)
I recorded in his studio, 4 songs, drums, bass guitars and vocals in 10 hours mixed. He was very impressed, he hooked me up with all kinds of obscure radio connectons and what not,.. I had an opportunity to sign up with a label as a result, and he told me to pass on it. He said "I am still paying my dues, we never quit paying dues (mind you , I was 24 yrs old at the time and hungry) .. what I recommend you do, is get a band and get your local peers behind you. If you can pull a following in your home town, you can pull a following elswhere. But start where you are most comfortable." needless to sy, he was burnt out on being a hired gun despite the fact that he played to tens of thousands of people on any given night.
"it's overrated" he said, "enjoy your freedom, Fred, you got it made"

..blew my freekin mind. I took his advice. I am so greatfull I did too. I would have been a lost slave to a mediocre label with only obligations to fullfill. The big print giveth, the fine print taketh away.

//edit// (i realized i had worded that wrong, i stated i was 24, but this story took place 12 years ago)

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Phlegm

9/18/2009 11:37:16 AM ---- Updated 9/18/2009 11:50:15 AM

Of course ALL of these types of "Indie Strugglin' to be heard" and "Let's make the Pipeline cause listeners and fans the world over to stand up and take notice" blogs, have been done before, but it's VERY cool that Noah Spaceship has again opened the dialogue, and folks seem to be keeping it real.

Bryon Tosoff said: "you know some musicians are wimps. weak, afraid to take their music out into the "REAL WORLD" for fear of rejection, and yes you will indeed get kicked in the balls many times over...but only the ones with passion will survive and succeed...And not just the ones with talent supreme make it...
those are the ones that usually give up..."

Yup. It's not for the faint of heart, this whole Indie thang.
Richard Linkletter (urrr... I think that's how you spell his name) of SLACKERS, Waking Life, and Dazed and Confused film-fame, said that it takes about 10 years of working your ass off on an Indie Artist/Music project before things start really moving.

So think about it.
Have we been working/striving/creating/promoting our dream like it was a 40-50 hour per week SECOND job for over 10 years yet? If not, then it's time to push just a little bit harder.

I'm not even going to TOUCH the whole "aging artist" issue, because it's OBVIOUS that MANY who've received broad critical acclaim, didn't "make it" until they were over 40 or DEAD.
NEVER let your age stop you; otherwise you might as well just crawl in a hole, recite the Brando-famed line "I could've been a contender", and die, right NOW.

Sigh. nice to stop in to another of Noah's blogs that are attempting to put fire under our ass. Gotta get ready for Band practice, pay some bills, work on new songs, warm my voice and fingers up, and then rush off to another 9 hours of my needed, but unfulfilling, day job.

Thanks to any and all who listened to OUR attempt at an artistic project, and voted for us in Round 3 of this lovely little IAC "Year of the Indie" contest, by the way.
And Best of luck to ALL my homeys and EVERY Indie Artist out there, on living their dreams, day to day!

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Bryon Tosoff

9/18/2009 11:58:39 AM

Larree has to come up with the coolest stuff in the most succinct way and clarity

what takes me 50 sentances to get a point across larree does it in 3

dude you rule. and you are a supremely gifted player...I love your songs and guitar stuff....so there

bryon

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Noah Spaceship

9/18/2009 12:12:21 PM

@larree
yes, my friend, it is all good. I would hate it though if you had an intern typing, just wouldn't be the same.

It's funny the phazes we go through. I am so utterly sick and tired of the bar scene. I've been gigging to small crowds for free and/or very little pay for 20+ years (off and on, but mostly on) and even though some claim that is the only way to get a following I desperately beg to differ.
I am sure I will gig again, it's unnavoidable. But, I love typing and hyping. Therre are so many things I am unnable to convey at a live show that the blogosphere covers and grants opportunity to connect to more people.

You remember those old paltalk concerts we used to do online? I still have the Dixie Lewelyn concert on my harddrive. It would be cool if we could pull something like that off again, those were fun.

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Product Recall

9/18/2009 1:09:54 PM

@Noah

Do you even have the smallest of regrets for not signing to that label?

We signed to an indie label (who we met on here), sure things are tight and there may not be the hugest amount of scratch. But we have started paying for our promo, we even sell home printed t shirts and shit and we sell our cd's out the back of our van, it may not be Island but fuck dude, i got my own record!! I have a shot at something, a slim chance to live off my music, (i wont call it art, that sounds too self righteous). Am i happy? FUCK YEAH. Its gonna be hard work but, i'll make sure it's worth it. Don't you ever think back to it and wonder what it would feel like to hold your own record? Art work, bar code the lot? An actual record with your name on it, your soul unleashed and heard?

On your other point, yeah i'm very judgmental on the music i listen to because of the politics of the band, i need music to really jump up and slap me in the face you know grab me by the ears and say "Look at me i'm awesome". I only listen to bands that have a purpose, honesty, intgrity and passion. Bands with balls. Music that looks like its there just to make money, heh aint going to waste my time. I see a lot of local lands who we get put on with, who are acting and dont really believe in what they are doing, why do they lie to them selves?

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Jeff Allen Myers

9/18/2009 1:10:15 PM

"I could go on in great lenght here....But I just find my time far more valuable then preach to the converted ones here, the crusty ones, the know it all flipping mouth pieces , the arrogant,. the bitchers.....the whiners....the worn out pissed ones, .do something, get off your ass,,,be who you are, not somebody else , move and do it all from the heart., ....dont be a phoney and push out copy cat contrived BS music...that means absolutely nothing"

Aww, Bryon something seems to have crawled oup your butt :) Since its usually the same old "Arrogant, crusty, know it all whiney mouth breather phonies with copy cat contrived B.S. that means nothing" hanging out here, just who are you targeting with your venom? Please splain :) I am curious .

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Product Recall

9/18/2009 1:26:38 PM

@Jingo

What are the other four?

noodge

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Noah Spaceship

9/18/2009 1:28:23 PM

@product
yeah, i think about what might have happened everyonce in a while, but no regrets.
I went a different route, I felt at the time I had a lot to learn and I trusted my mentor(of sorts).
I am very happy and content with where I have come and where I have been, it has been a wild ride. I have an appreciation for the freedom that comes with being independent and owning outright all of my music.
I think it's wicked cool about yous guys and your van, in a way I am jelouse, I really missed out on the starving road trips, but like Bob Elliot, I have kids, and a part of me always held back a little to be around for them. My oldest daughter graduated highschool earlier this year with honors, and I dread the thought of where whe would be had I not been as available as I was. One thing about '96 (when I recorded at villiage), my oldest daughter was struggling in school with peers. I pulled her out of public school and home schooled her for that year. It just wasn't in the cards for me to hit the road. I had to make a hard choice, and taking into acount the advice I was given, I felt had I gone down the label road bad shit was going to happen,.. I followed my gut.

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Noah Spaceship

9/18/2009 1:30:20 PM

@larree

Now THAT is what IAC needs. Noah! Yeah! Those Paltalk concerts were a blast! IAC needs to create a virtual "concert hall!"

that is not a bad idea!!

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Product Recall

9/18/2009 2:38:58 PM

thats why i have done my best to avoid children and mortgages, its come at quite a cost at times.

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Noah Spaceship

9/19/2009 3:01:59 AM

@product
you have to do me a favor.
one of these next times you are out on the road, and you settle in for the night at your motel 6 or whatever, and you get that nice quiet moment where you are getting some fresh air and staring at the stars thinking to yourself, "fuckin A! this is the shiz,.. we are really here,... damn" - ...give me a nod and a grin and hang out for another second or two

fucker

:)

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Ash Ferry

9/19/2009 3:27:33 AM

Paltalk concerts Who's gonna organize 3000 people in one room holding their guitars and microphones with one finger on the talk button? laugh!

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Ash Ferry

9/19/2009 5:18:32 AM ---- Updated 9/19/2009 5:21:46 AM

Let's volunteeer Larree! ya! haha! You'd do great Larree. You have that host with the most magic.

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Conversation Suicide

9/19/2009 10:14:58 AM

Product Recall said:

"We signed to an indie label (who we met on here), sure things are tight and there may not be the hugest amount of scratch. But we have started paying for our promo, we even sell home printed t shirts and shit and we sell our cd's out the back of our van, it may not be Island but fuck dude, i got my own record!! I have a shot at something, a slim chance to live off my music, (i wont call it art, that sounds too self righteous). Am i happy? FUCK YEAH. Its gonna be hard work but, i'll make sure it's worth it. Don't you ever think back to it and wonder what it would feel like to hold your own record? Art work, bar code the lot? An actual record with your name on it, your soul unleashed and heard?

On your other point, yeah i'm very judgmental on the music i listen to because of the politics of the band, i need music to really jump up and slap me in the face you know grab me by the ears and say "Look at me i'm awesome". I only listen to bands that have a purpose, honesty, intgrity and passion. Bands with balls. Music that looks like its there just to make money, heh aint going to waste my time. I see a lot of local bands who we get put on with, who are acting and dont really believe in what they are doing, why do they lie to them selves?"

yup.

And that's why I'm following you, School & Product Recall, on your crazy, hard workin' ACID TRIP with Kenny Colgate and Romulus X Records UK ....soon....

Trust me, I talk to LOADS of musicians, and TONS more that I've spoken with over the last 10 years, by phone, in travels, locally and on the internet.
You are the real McCoy, and a TRUE Independent Music-Lifer -- even if you end up on some type of amazingly LUCRATIVE dea,l with FILMS, and all that, someday...I'm trustin' you'll find a way to stay in touch with being human.

So get ready, 'cause pHLeGmie's comin' to join the LABEL and help " y'all " spread the love, VERY SOON.

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Carolyn Stewart

9/19/2009 10:33:30 AM

Just want to thank everyone for your comments, opinions, advices. The trenches are alot of work and this week I hit a point when I was ready to give it all up. The balance is hard and my heart was broken from all angles, 'cause I felt like I just couldn't keep up with ...anything.

I host an open mic on Fridays and was ready to pack it in before last nights show. Funny thing is, it was the best night we ever had. I had a full roster of very talented artists sign up. The audience was into it ...(which has not happened for awhile). There was even someone in the audience that does an afternoon CBC radio show that took my CD and wants to play a song. Asked me to forward any other local artists info to her that I hear. She was also looking to mention new music venues outside of the same 'regular' circuit.

I'm always listening, reading as much advice as I can. I realize I am where I'm supposed to be for the time I've put in. The easiest thing would be to just do my day job and strum some chords at home. That felt like a great idea until .... last night. Performing and having people into what you're doing...is exciting.

@bryon - there's always someone listening- thank you!

Peace all thanks for reading if you did :-)
Carolyn

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Bryon Tosoff

9/19/2009 11:08:23 AM

For Carolyn , my fellow Canuck :)
sorry for the general statement on the listening thing Carolyn and all, there are many good people listening to all the fine artists here, players and good people who love music so. absolutely for sure ,indeed there is always someone listening of course..me too! I was being somewhat facetious. but there are things I have found out over the years in promoting artists and their expectations...I guess that is where I was coming from......I should have been more specific...kinda blanket statement...but the real litmus test is getting on terrestertial as you did Carolyn
and there is a lot of GREAT MUSIC here that should be on air so to speak or cable or satellite and there is more then likely many who are having that kind of success, more power to you.......

anyways, this is my weekend off from this place, I just want to clarify that I am not leaving iac as in my post elsewhere may have indicated. sorry mybad. I was leaving for the weekend or so I am burned out from this week, kinda a killer week and my head is spinning
I need nature, a walk. some serenity and rest

have a good one.
bryon

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Carolyn Stewart

9/19/2009 11:16:47 AM

Hey Bryon I didn't take it personally :-) I never do unless you actually point blank point me out 8-)

It's hard to leave a great place :-) Enjoy the weekend...I've got a neglected house to clean up.

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Kevin White

9/19/2009 1:47:44 PM

Re: The golf comment.

It's relevant to this conversation too.

The best players play against themselves and the course. They're aware of the competition, but they're focus on their own game.

If more artists did that, they'd do better themselves.

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Noah Spaceship

9/19/2009 2:56:30 PM

@kevin, it sure is, and I agree

of course, I was referencing to a comment you left stating 'it's like golf' -- a running joke in my circle of friends is we know it's over when we start playing golf. :)

I would also like to add to your analogous point. We see ourselves in others, and as soon as we can own and embrace that, we become aware of our weaknesses,.. I don't see how to capitalize on our weakneses until we take on that ownership/responsibility. Which would, like you pointed out, negate competition and hence heighten our game.

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Noah Spaceship

9/19/2009 3:00:37 PM

@ carolyn - ... and thank you for your comments. open mic nights for me were a total blessing. you lend inspiration to the thoughts of getting back out and playing some of those.

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Kevin White

9/19/2009 3:41:57 PM

Strengths are strengths, so they don't require attention ... although they're what we're most comfortable with because they call attention w/ the least amount of effort.

It's how one address their weaknesses that elevates their game.

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The Man With No Band

9/19/2009 4:10:22 PM

Just popping in to say hello .... Chose this thread to do so cuz I'm enjoying my ass off reading the original post and all the follow ups make for a great reading thread ... and I have SPEAKERS today so I'm listening to Noah Spaceship as I type and am enjoying that as well ...

Finally I have time for a break from the business of fighting with the old demons ... bastards are tough though :) ... just glad I always have a place to come home to ...

I'll be doing A LOT of listening in these next few days ... and try to get around and say hello on some home pages ...

Please don't follow my lead and get this thread off track ... Sorry Noah ... I'll be posting a thread in a bit ... but really enjoying this one, so had to say so ....

Peace
Sam

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Product Recall

9/19/2009 5:40:15 PM

@Noah

Its half Eleven i've just gotten back from another electric performance brimming with passion and aggression (we win again), i stepped out side on the street, cool night air crisping the skin where the sweat has settled, joint in one hand beer in the other, looked to the starry night sky and thanked the gods for letting me do what i do and for being alive, then i thought about you Noah my good man, (second only to the gods) and boy did i start to grin, i thought about not staying at home with my wife and having the same romantic evening that she's put on for the last decade or so, or the teenage daughter bringing home another unsuitable suture. Instead i relived the moment, smoke drifting across the stage, lights wobbling on the rafters and the crowd clapping and cheering realising they had just made a connection with some thing they identified with. Dang it feels good to be me.

Is now appropriate for an FU?

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Noah Spaceship

9/19/2009 7:00:37 PM

haha, made me grin to read that, cheers!!

FU!

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Noah Spaceship

9/19/2009 7:07:11 PM

@product

if i may gush for a second or two,.. I felt that, you soak that shit up for all it's worth. thanks, man. living vicariously aint even close, but the taste is oh so sweet.

*sigh

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Kevin White

9/19/2009 11:05:36 PM

Ha, Sam ... wily poster. I visit infrequently in the pipe these days, but certain subject matter does pull me out too.

Pipeline changes perspective, not always to the better in my mind ... for it promotes caution.

That's bad for art.

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Noah Spaceship

9/19/2009 11:30:40 PM

"Pipeline changes perspective, not always to the better in my mind ... for it promotes caution.

That's bad for art."

@k white - yeah, why is that? it seems to me i feel that sense of 'tread lightly',.. but for fear of what?
the way you put that frames so simply one of the aspects about the pipeline that seems to me to be off. and isn't that exactly what we should want to avoid? being put off?

i appreciate your comments, kevin, sam, thanks.

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Kevin White

9/19/2009 11:55:17 PM

In short explanation:

I'm currently banned from posting new topics because I challenge IAC in a way they don't like. To their credit, I agree w/ them ... and at the same time don't care about the restriction. I'm a bit of an iconoclast compelled to challenge status quo. I won't go into that here or this thread will be killed ... and I don't want a good thread to be removed on my account. (Bad threads, I don't mind so much ... lol ...)

But the pipe ain't a total "speak your mind" place. It's way more tight than that. There are rules that are strictly enforced. First and foremost: Don't talk about IAC.

To be sure, they absolutely state that that's verboten if you want to participate in the Pipeline. It's actually rule one. Still, on many occasions, I've ... well, to be honest, ignored that rule (see above).

On a very basic level, I reject that. As an artist, I view everything critically ... including myself ... which is why I also forgive them for banning me.

One of my main sticky points is that they don't allow similar introspection. But if you're going to participate in the Pipe: Their rules is first rule.

And although I conflict with their management on SOOOOOOOO many levels, I also admit that my transgressions did violate what they told me not to.

And I'm fine w/ that ...

For I'm an artist. I'm going to comment on what I see. That's me.

Still: Caution ... there's rules to the Pipe.

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Kevin White

9/19/2009 11:56:05 PM

That was so not short ...

lol ...

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Kevin White

9/20/2009 12:03:18 AM ---- Updated 9/20/2009 10:18:18 AM

This post has been edited by the writer.

Content removed because it smelled like a dead horse.

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Noah Spaceship

9/20/2009 12:58:49 AM

that's pretty much totaly awesome and sad at the same time.
i thought we were gonna get all philosophical for a sec., but that explanation is simple, and very explainatively-clear-and-understandable-roger-that.

shit, now I'm all paranoid haha

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Anon E. Mouse

9/20/2009 10:27:38 AM

There is no need to be paranoid Mr. Spaceship.

At least you are willing to ask some of the HARD questions, that MANY of the fearful Indie artists on this site are unwilling to attempt.

You should seriously check out the SUCCESSFUL indie artists on MY page. Not a single one of them made it to the bigtime by whining, and kissing other Indie-wannabe's asses. Including such GREATS as the recently departed Jim Carrol, of film, radio, and literature/poetry fame.

-Doobious DoobieMeyer the Cat

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9/20/2009 10:48:48 AM

Kevin, we're glad you admit you had some warning before we put restrictions on you. However part of the problem is that you are paranoid and persist on spreading rumors that are utter distortions like the ones you have here. People talk about IAC all the time on the pipeline, that's obvious. They don't try to come off like they know things they don't though. They don't post innuendos and allusions to sinister doings to try to glorify themselves like you have a number of times. Most people that suspicious and snide move their music to another site.

Now if you really cared, you wouldn't cause other people's blogs to be moved, but you don't, you're mainly out for Kevin. Now I'm going to move this blog.

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Noah Spaceship

9/20/2009 4:48:30 PM

@phlegm - i knew this thread ws over when kevin gave his explanation, paranoia was not unfounded, and now it is moved, paranoia gone.

@kevin - don't sweat me getting this moved, I will just start another thread. Kinda like when someone steals your song idea,.. you just write a new one.

@toby - no skin off my back, I am not bummed out at all, but others might be.

see you all in the next blog
p e a c e

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Kevin White

9/20/2009 6:57:34 PM

That's gracious of you, Fred ... and by answering your question directly, I didn't mean to get your thread bumped, but where I tread, IAC watches very closely ... and usually censures.

They call me paranoid, but if I speak and they censure ... well, there's nothing paranoid about reality when it's consistent.

Ironically, they simply proved what I was saying.

And it's not about me either.

Follow the logic: How is it about me when my first comment in this thread was about unrealistic expectations of indies when the truly gifted and famous have to hawk their music in a coffee shop?

Me? I'm fine w/ musical obscurity ... and I know I'm good. I've other means.

It ain't about me.

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Kevin White

9/20/2009 10:49:15 PM

Toby ... future advice.

Fight w/ facts, not censure. The latter exposes and validates suspicions.

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