the Republican debate reminds me of schoolkids by Holo Lukaloa on The Pipeline at IndieMusicPeople

the Republican debate reminds me of schoolkids

What an embarrassing line of liars and distorters. I can't believe that even 30% of the people in America believe this horseshit.

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1/15/2016 1:24:08 AM

Sadly, Son....

Believe it.

Hard for a youngster with brains like yourself, but....

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Larree

1/15/2016 9:08:15 AM

No worries, junior. You can choose between the criminal, the socialist, and the nobody. Their debate will be on Sunday night during the NFL playoff game so less people will even know it is happening. What the fuck are they so afraid of, junior? Any of the candidates who were on that stage last night would be a better president than Bernie the socialist, Hillary the criminal, or that other guy.

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1/15/2016 9:13:50 AM

I wouldn't worry, Larree.

I have a feeling Donald's got this.

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Larree

1/15/2016 9:17:15 AM

Right on. :)

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1/15/2016 9:18:31 AM

Oh but I do have to add,

Donald is so far and away, the better, of all the other Republican Candidates.

Just like Bernie is far and away, the better, compared to Hillary.
But that will in and of itself, still not be enough.

Here's how it is right now, and I'm here to let ya'll know.
As inevitable as Barack was, back when he got in,
that's how inevitable Donald is, in this particular era.
It's complex math, not everyone can do it.

But that's the answer.

Donald Trump is very nearly certainly going to be
the next President of the United States.

Just thought I'd let you know.
You may now commence to pitch a fit, if you like.

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Larree

1/15/2016 9:20:24 AM

Bernie is better than Hillary because he is not the criminal she is. But I could never support a socialist. That would be insane.

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1/15/2016 9:26:32 AM

Well, while I don't automatically rule someone out for being a socialist per se,
since there are arguable merits to the socialist approach,
like for instance, one could argue, that Social Security,
which in truth is the only reason I am still alive to even say hi to anybody,
is a socialist oriented thing. And again, I'd be dead without it.
So I don't disqualify on the basis of the 'socialist' label.

But looking at the whole picture,
it's not so much a thing of---and I've written to Donald explaining this,
don't think I haven't--- 'make America Great Again'...
Because America IS Great. We're The Greatest. On our worst day,
we are still that.

But it is very much Make America's Economy Great Again,
and even the little bit I'm into his book The Art Of The Deal
(Which you recommended to me, and thank you again for that!)
tells me, This, This is The Guy.
This is The Guy Who Can Get Our Economy Back On Top.
And I mean, On Top Of The World,

because it's been a while since our economy was on top of the world.

As of now, Folks, Donald Trump is my Favorite To Win.

And my favorites have an odd habit of getting elected.

I don't know why.

~L

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Larree

1/15/2016 9:39:16 AM

Perhaps junior over there needs to get a copy of "Art of the Deal" from his public library. I am glad you dig it.

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1/15/2016 9:59:00 AM

You know?
That's a Great Idea, Larree.

Doubt he'll do it. But it's a Great Idea.
Sure would open his eyes some. Oh I'll betcha.

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Larree

1/15/2016 11:18:09 AM ---- Updated 1/15/2016 11:19:35 AM

Some people don't want to open their eyes. Junior over here is the kind of kid who wants safe zones in school where they don't have to listen to fresh and new ideas.

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Holo Lukaloa

1/15/2016 11:47:39 AM

Larree, I asked you this before and you didn't answer. What's wrong with being a socialist?

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Larree

1/15/2016 12:16:10 PM

Being a socialist is like accepting big brother as your daddy. Your god. Your protector, jailer and caretaker. I don't buy into that shit.

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1/15/2016 12:33:51 PM

Wow... this discussion is going to some interesting places.

I'm now past the first chapter...
More I read the more I see Donald Trump is a visionary,
actually talking about some concepts I myself already held,
so I'm eating this up with a spoon. Very educational.

So no kidding. They have 'safe zones' in schools,
where, free thinking, and exchange of ideas, is, not allowed?
Seriously Larree, for real? They do that? Ever? In America?

Okay there definitely is a point to cut all this 'politically correct' crap
right the hell out.

As for the 'socialism' argument...

Yeah, I'm very anti-Big Brother, that's a safe bet which shouldn't
surprise anyone. The problem, or challenge of that, to me, is...

is that everybody wants to be Big Brother.

They do. Almost everybody does.

"Everybody wants to rule the world..."

So, whether Big Brother is the Government,
or Koch Industries (whose dad did work for Hitler, whatta ya know!,
yeah that's right the Koch Brothers, Father, did work on a plant
in Nazi Germany which Hitler himself approved! ain't that some shit!)

either way, it is running into trouble...

What's the answer?
Best I can see, it's a very intricate (and maybe impossible,
but we may as well try) balance...

between reasonable accountable non-zealous government,
even handed, not heavy handed,
and a thriving, bustling private sector,

which means, stuff that protects people
from being poisoned by their water
like Folks are being presently in Flint, Michigan,
does have to be in place....

but at the same time,
you don't wanna make entrepreneurs run headlong
into another country, just 'cause you made
it impossible for them to conduct business.

It's a very intricate balance, to get the whole thing right.
And that is what almost nobody understands,
they're either one thing, or they're the other.

From what I see, and the more I look,
Donald Trump, Is The Guy, Who Gets That. All Of That.

I say it how I see it.

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Holo Lukaloa

1/15/2016 12:56:59 PM

Trump obviously knows more about trade than any of the others on that stage last night.

Larree, are you against medicare then ?

I don't think government helping out people is a bad thing, myself. Obamacare in particular has helped friends of mine.

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Larree

1/15/2016 1:14:53 PM

Everything the government touches eventually turns to shit. Less government is better government.

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Holo Lukaloa

1/15/2016 1:26:32 PM

Tell that to your Aunt Mabel receiving SS and Medicare.

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Larree

1/15/2016 2:01:09 PM

Serious? Aunt Mabel? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :D

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Two Silo Complex

1/15/2016 2:08:49 PM

Debates are useless tools to sway the weak minded and fence sitters oh they made a good point I should vote for them. Screw what they stand for screw what they will do to me as a citizen they made a good point so let me vote for them and maybe I will get a treat. You'll get a treat alright just close your eyes and bend over.

Debates useless babble you could gain more inhaling fumes from horse crap.

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1/15/2016 2:16:04 PM

Well, I'm not here to do anymore battle,
especially since I basically also like Trump for a variety of reasons...

but if they did eliminate the government that gives me social security support,
I would die, and it's been nice knowing you all.

Yeah, I think debates are bogus too.

You'd probably do better watching them beat each other with bats.

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Larree

1/15/2016 2:29:29 PM ---- Updated 1/15/2016 2:38:13 PM

I don't think most of the necessary programs that people already depend on should be simply eliminated with no backup plans. But I do believe that the waste and corruption within these programs needs to be eliminated yesterday and then some programs need to be phased out over time and replaced with more emphasis for care and services for individuals placed on local governments supported with more private sector involvement.

And I enjoy the debates. Most people just don't know how to watch them. I watch all the debates. Democrat, Republican, and Libertarian. And after that as many of the other third party debates as I can take in, as well.

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LyinDan

1/15/2016 3:14:25 PM

WHAT WERE POORHOUSES?
the Poorhouse Story
(often also called Poor Farms -- and several similar terms --
or referred to with the older term -- Almshouses)

Poorhouses were tax-supported residential institutions to which people were required to go if they could not support themselves. They were started as a method of providing a less expensive (to the taxpayers) alternative to what we would now days call "welfare" - what was called "outdoor relief" in those days. People requested help from the community Overseer of the Poor ( sometimes also called a Poor Master) - an elected town official. If the need was great or likely to be long-term, they were sent to the poorhouse instead of being given relief while they continued to live independently. Sometimes they were sent there even if they had not requested help from the Overseer of the Poor. That was usually done when they were found guilty of begging in public, etc.

[One misconception should be cleared up here; they were not technically "debtors' prisons." Someone could owe a great deal of money, but if they could still provide themselves with the necessities for remaining independent they might avoid the poorhouse.]

BEFORE POORHOUSES
the Poorhouse Story

Prior to the establishment of poorhouses the problem of what to do with paupers in a community was dealt with in one of three ways:

Outdoor Relief provided through an Overseer of the Poor: When people fell upon hard times and members of their family, friends or members of their church congregations could not provide enough assistance to tide them over, they made application to an elected local official called the Overseer of the Poor. Within a budget of tax money, he might provide them with food, fuel, clothing, or even permission to get medical treatment to be paid out of tax funds.

Auctioning off the Poor: People who could not support themselves (and their families) were put up for bid at public auction. In an unusual type of auction, the pauper was sold to the lowest bidder (the person who would agree to provide room and board for the lowest price) -- usually this was for a specific period of a. year or so. The person who got the contract got the use of the labor of the pauper for free in return for feeding, clothing, housing and providing health care for the pauper and his/her family. This was actually a form of indentured servitude. It sounds a lot like slavery -- except that it was technically not for the pauper's entire lifetime. And it had many of the perils of slavery. The welfare of the paupers depended almost entirely upon the kindness and fairness of the bidder. If he was motivated only by a desire to make the maximum profit off the "use" of the pauper, then concern for "the bottom line" might result in the pauper being denied adequate food, or safe and comfortable shelter, or even necessary medical treatment. And there often was very little recourse for protection against abuse. (See scan of an authentic record of an auction in 1832 in Sandown NH.)

Contracting with someone in the community to care for Paupers: In this situation the care of a group of paupers was delegated to the person(s) who would contract to provide care at, again, the lowest price. This system allowed the opportunity for somewhat better supervision as indicated in the terms of the contract -- which might specify what minimum standard of care must be provided and that community officers would do inspections, etc. There were still often the same opportunities for abuse that were noted above.

Note: In some cases (before state laws began to require the establishment of County Poorhouses) local communities had already discovered that a place to house paupers helped reduce the cost of poor relief. These small town poorhouses were the prototypes for the later state-required county poorhouses. Those earlier poorhouses often instituted the use of an adjacent farm on which the paupers could work to raise their own food, thus making the houses more self-sufficient (relying less on local tax funds). That is how the term "poor farm" came into being.

THE BEGINNING of the COUNTY POORHOUSE SYSTEM
the Poorhouse Story

During the second quarter of the 19th century, as the industrial revolution had its effect on the United States, the importation of the factory system from England was followed almost immediately by the full scale adoption of what seemed to be an inherent component of that system -- the Poorhouse System. These poorhouses were built with great optimism. They promised to be a much more efficient and cheaper way to provide relief to paupers. And there was a fervent popular belief that housing such people in institutions would provide the opportunity to reform them and cure them of the bad habits and character defects that were assumed to be the cause of their poverty.

THE DISILLUSIONMENT
the Poorhouse Story

By mid-century, people were beginning to question the success of the poorhouse movement. Investigations were launched to examine the conditions in poorhouses. They had proven to be much more expensive than had been anticipated. And they had not significantly reduced the numbers of the "unworthy poor" nor eliminated the need for "outdoor relief". [ This was public assistance given to those living outside the poorhouses. It was given somewhat grudgingly to those considered to be (perhaps!) more "worthy" poor --who might only briefly and temporarily require assistance to procure food or fuel or clothing when they fell on very short-term hard times.]

THE CIVIL WAR
the Poorhouse Story

But the Civil War was the major preoccupation of American society during the third quarter of the century. Major systematic changes in social welfare policy had to await calmer times. Ironically, the faltering poorhouse system was sheltered from the impact of the poverty produced by the war itself. The war created widows and orphans; and it deprived elderly members of families of the support they might have had in their old age, had their sons and grandsons lived or remained able to work. While many looked forward to the time ... "When Johnny Comes Marching Home Again"... many soldiers limped home to be disabled for the rest of their lives. However, a relatively small proportion of these casualties of the war ever wound up living in poorhouses.

The poorhouses were spared this circumstance for two reasons. Special laws were passed requiring that any needed assistance to veterans and their families had to be provided as outdoor relief -- specifically prohibiting placement in the poorhouse. And the Civil War Pension Plan provided -- although belatedly and awkwardly and controversially -- for soldiers and their family members. (An entire book could be devoted to this -- and it has been!)

THE TRANSITION
the Poorhouse Story

By 1875, after the regulation of poorhouses in most states became the responsibility of the State Board of Charities, laws were passed prohibiting children from residing in poorhouses and removing mentally ill patients and others with special needs to more appropriate facilities.

The poorhouse population was even more narrowly defined during the twentieth century when social welfare legislation (Workman’s Compensation, Unemployment benefits and Social Security) began to provide a rudimentary “safety net” for people who would previously have been pauperized by such circumstances. Eventually the poorhouses evolved almost exclusively into nursing homes for dependent elderly people. But poorhouses left orphanages, general hospitals and mental hospitals -- for which they had provided the prototype -- as their heritage.

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Lars Mars

1/15/2016 6:07:05 PM

All political 'debates' remind me of school kids...

Did too...

Did not...

Did too...

Did not...

you smell..

no, You smell...

Still waiting for a grownup in this race...

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1/16/2016 6:24:17 AM

That might be a long wait.

We got a grownup....

We've had one all this time....

It's a Lord of the Flies World however,
and he's had a mighty tough time of it.

Anyway, it's very nearly settled,
and will be by 10:23 a.m. this morning.

Nevermind, it's some esoteric math to which I refer.

After that, it will be a certainty.

Donald Trump Will Be The Next President Of The United States.

That reminds me, I have to write to him now... excuse me...

Larree, thank you for putting our song on your station!

This book is Great. Beyond Great. Absolute Classic For All Time.

Say, that's good... I'll tell Donald that, he'll be happy to hear it.

We're all kids, and really, we always were,
we just show it a bit more now...

oh and those crazy 'evangelists' who are now yelling, just yelling,
about 'gays needing to be rounded up and executed'
God's going to come up with something REAL Special, for them.
Ohh, I betcha. I work for God, have all my adult life.
They pay Him 'lip service' at best.

And Drop Dead Ted...

New York Values, Are We Mean Business Values,
We Make The World Go Round,

and you're not even an American Citizen,
and also the nineteen fifties called,
and they want their hair-style back.

Do the right thing, Ted.
Get the hell out of the race.
Donald is bringing this one home.
He Will Get Elected.

And Ted can't possibly, for a number of reasons, including lack of citizenship.

Thanks for playing Ted.

Folks, I'm telling you, Donald Trump, is gonna be way better
than some of you seem to think.

Me and Larree, see, we've read his book, well I'm in the process of
reading it, just brilliant.

Oh and Lyin' Dan,
Holy Cow, I take my hat off to you,
and I thought I can write a long long thing. Wow.

Very studious. Very smart. I'm impressed to the fullest capacity
of my ability to understand, uh, smart.

I'm a dumbass with a magic streak. That's about the size of it.

Nah, I sell myself short... not always quite a dumbass....

I am smarter than that, I need to remember that.
I've been treated like one a long long time though,
by many people, including my late wife, though
I do not like speaking ill of the deceased.

I hope she doesn't hate me anymore.
Before she died, she yelled at me with pure fire,
"you're not the guy my daddy promised would take care of me,
you never make any money, you suck, I hate you"
and then I wanted to die...

and then she died.

and then I said to the Lord,

"Lord, your aim is leanin' a little bit to the left".

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LyinDan

1/16/2016 5:07:09 PM

Lesley, that was just an unattributed cut and paste. I didn't write it, I copied it, and shure as shootin blanks, I should have attributed it, but I didn't. I think it's a Wiki.

It was just a snide answer to larreee and Trump, who would seem to favor poorhouses to welfare. It's not that welfare isn't taken advantage of, of course it is. Everything, no matter what, is taken advantage of. Why wouldn't it be?

Surely, it's better to keep folks in their own homes and give them a bit to survive there than to stuff them in group live-ins with the very very basic "i'll feed you, you poor bastard, but generally, since you're worthless, I wish you'd just die" position, which is the grudging Repube belief fostered by those who HAVE theirs and haven't spend a half second in the shoes of those who haven't theirs.

If one has spent their life with given money, one can't even imagine the reality of not having it. Pure and simple.

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Larree

1/16/2016 5:11:01 PM ---- Updated 1/16/2016 5:12:22 PM

When did I... OR Donald Trump.. say we want to bring back poorhouses? That is ridiculous. Why do left wingers make up so much bullshit?

Okay, now where did I say anything about bringing back poorhouses?

"I don't think most of the necessary programs that people already depend on should be simply eliminated with no backup plans. But I do believe that the waste and corruption within these programs needs to be eliminated yesterday and then some programs need to be phased out over time and replaced with more emphasis for care and services for individuals placed on local governments supported with more private sector involvement."

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LyinDan

1/16/2016 6:27:46 PM

Neither of you would say it outright. Reading the description of poorhouses above and "some programs need to be phased out over time and replaced with more emphasis for care and services for individuals placed on local governments supported with more private sector involvement." sounds awfully similar, does it not?

Could you spell out just what backup programs you would have in mind that differ from the poorhouse?

Could you describe your upbringing that enables you to "feel the pain" of those who have no "backup plan" and who are unable to scrabble a living without help?

I think not

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Larree

1/16/2016 6:38:48 PM

First if all you have no idea at all about my life so I will not even answer that part of your question because it was quite assumptive of you. Regarding the rest of your question, what is so wrong with streamlining the system and eliminating the waste and fraud and the many layers of duplication that you find throughout all of government? There would actually be more of everything for everybody.

Donald Trump is not an ideologue. He is not a right or left wingnut. He is a problem solver. He is probably the only candidate running who has half a chance of getting the damned ideologues on the left and the right to sit down, stop spewing political bullshit, and get some fucking work done for a change.

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LyinDan

1/16/2016 7:11:22 PM

OK larree C.

"what is so wrong with streamlining the system and eliminating the waste and fraud and the many layers of duplication that you find throughout all of government?"

Can't be done. Every single program of government has waste and fraud. To eliminate it, you'd have to eliminate the program. There always has been and always will be some level of waste and fraud. That's true in business also. It's true in every single human endeavor, particularly in any involving any level of money. It's human nature. Don't tell me it's not true in business, which is Trump's forte. You can read about it in any given issue of any newspaper in any day's edition. In fact, if I may say, much of the waste and fraud in any government program is initiated by and for business reasons and by and for business people. Why don't you advocate eliminating all the business crooks present in government? Hmmmmm? Don't you think that would save taxpayers some money? Your bud, Trump, he of the regular bankruptcies (for business reasons, nothing personal), what does he have to say about the role of business in government corruption? Not much? Anything?

Donald Trump is a problem solver? He is a solver of problems that get in his way. How has he benefited humanity? What has he done to benefit the public welfare? Does he give a flying shittola about the incidental damage to people who were hurt by his business deals?

So your ideal is a dictatorial power who can cut right through the red tape, cut the gordian knot with a sword, tell those who argue one way or the other to shut the fuck up and get out of the way? That's a fantasy hero, and it's a fantasy view of the problems we do face. Not to mention the incredible mess he would make of the world were he given a chance. There's a word for that type of "hero". Well, two words. National Socialist.

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LyinDan

1/16/2016 7:29:09 PM

How about we review a few Trump "deals" and see what's admirable about them?
************************************************
In 1988 Eastern Air Lines routes were about as profitable as Indian buffalo hunting grounds, and dying out faster. Trump's cunning plan was to buy them and make them more expensive. He justified the increased fares with the sort of pointless bling typically reserved for silver-plated watermelons. The Trump Shuttles featured maple wood veneer floors, chrome seat belt latches, and gold-plated toilet fittings so that the passengers could know how it felt to value money as much as Trump does.

The purchase was financed by a $380 million loan from 22 banks and not one of them ever saw a cent. As we'll soon find out, Trump has knocked over more banks than the Joker, who at least leaves once he's taken the money. Trump tends not to be satisfied with ruining mere days. For instance, after he defaulted on the loans the banks were forced to repossess the airline's assets, which it turns out were worth approximately as much as the Hindenburg's spare gas tank. They couldn't sell them, they couldn't use them, and they had to negotiate a settlement to force the company to even try to turn a profit.
*******************************************
Nice one! (If you admire assholes, Trump rivals Goatse!)

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LyinDan

1/16/2016 7:33:27 PM

Trump Ocean Resort Baja: those four words contain the entirety of Trump's contribution to the project. None of this stopped the Trumps (multiple, him and his and daughter Ivanka) from pushing the Mexican resort like the Lost City of Gold. The project collected 32 million dollars from investors, and then promptly sent them a letter saying that loan negotiations had collapsed. It also informed them that the buildings that were supposed to be built with the money didn't exist, then closed by quoting the part of the contract that said the company was allowed to spend the deposits anyway. Mission accomplished, Trump removed his name from the project the next month. He then told interviewers that investors were "lucky" because they'd have lost even more money if anything had been built.

How? Would the laborers have stolen bricks from their houses to build the resort? Rather than asking such questions, several victims sued Trump and developer Irongate to recover their $32 million, and his response was to sue Irongate as well - for $40 million. This is a man who charges eight million dollars for even being reminded that he screwed people over. Unfortunately, Irongate were bankrupt before either suit started.
***************************************************
There's a sterling example of honesty and forthrightness from The Don. Makes you hot for him as President, doesn't it?

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LyinDan

1/16/2016 7:44:32 PM

A NEIGHBOUR of Donald Trump's golf course was stunned when the tycoon put a fence around his house - then billed him for it.

David Milne, 46, has been at loggerheads with the billionaire after refusing to sell up to him.

Without warning, Trump's contractors erected the new boundary and planted dozens of trees then sent an invoice for £2820 - half of the total bill.

But David said: "There is no way I'm going to pay it. As far as I'm concerned it's just another attempt to intimidate and bully me.

"But it's not going to work. I'm not paying any attention to it at all."

Trump is building the "best golf course in the world" on the Menie Estate in Balmedie, Aberdeenshire.

The American has permission to create two championship courses, a clubhouse, a hotel and 950 houses.

And he's decided he also needs adjoining land and has applied for planning permission for properties he doesn't own.

This includes David's home at Hermit Point, where the health and safety adviser has lived with wife Moira for almost 20 years.

Trump has been caught on camera branding the house "ugly" but the couple have refused to sell up to him because they don't want to leave their idyllic home.

David said: "I could not believe it when the bill arrived. I priced the materials and I could put up the whole fence on my own for about £800.

"It's made from the cheapest stuff available but that's the kind of standard we've come to expect from Mr Trump and his organisation."

The resort is due to open next summer but David reckons harsh weather has left it behind schedule.

He said: "I think they've underestimated the Scottish weather."

Nobody at the Trump Organisation was available for comment yesterday.
*******************************************************
What a wonderful human being! It's just business, though.
The stench is making my nose clog up. Gotta go get some air.

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Larree

1/16/2016 8:57:55 PM

"So your ideal is a dictatorial power who can cut right through the red tape..."

Kind of like President Obama with his executive orders every other week?

Please...

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Larree

1/16/2016 10:13:05 PM ---- Updated 1/16/2016 10:14:51 PM

First of all you did not cite any of your sources. So I searched around. And none of the stuff you posted even comes close to Hillary Clinton lying about Benghazi. Nothing Trump has ever done comes close to Hillary telling the families of our dead citizens that their loved ones died because of a fucking video, knowing full well that the video had nothing to do with it. And then she called those family members liars. Sorry, bud. You can keep that stench. I will stick with Trump. He's not dirty like Hillary.

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LyinDan

1/16/2016 11:59:49 PM

Here are some more Trumpisms (or lies, whichever you prefer)

From FactCheck.org, btw.

Trump boasted that he “predicted Osama bin Laden.” Nope. The book Trump published in 2000 mentioned bin Laden once, and predicted nothing about bin Laden’s future plans.
Trump “heard” that Obama is “thinking about signing an executive order where he wants to take your guns away.” If so, he misheard. What Obama reportedly considered was requiring large-volume private gun dealers to conduct background checks, not confiscating firearms from those who own them.
Trump said he “heard” the Obama administration plans to accept 200,000 Syrian refugees — even upping that wildly inaccurate number to 250,000 in another speech. Nope and nope. The number is about 10,000.
Trump said he got to know Putin “very well” while the two were on CBS’ “60 Minutes.” Nope. The two men were interviewed separately, in different countries thousands of miles apart.
Trump claimed his campaign is “100 percent” self-funded. Nope. At the time, more than 50 percent of his campaign’s funds had come from outside contributors.
Trump said his tax plan is revenue neutral. Nope. The pro-business Tax Foundation estimated the Trump plan would reduce revenues to the Treasury by more than $10 trillion over 10 years, even assuming his plan would create economic growth.
Trump told the story of a 2-year old who got autism a week after the child got a vaccine. But there’s no evidence of such a link. The study that claimed to have found a link between vaccines and autism has been exposed as an “elaborate fraud.” It was retracted five years ago by the journal that published it, and the author was stripped of his license to practice medicine in Britain.
Trump said Mexico doesn’t have a birthright citizenship policy. It does.
Trump claimed credit for getting Ford Motor Co. to move a plant from Mexico to Ohio. Ford says that’s baloney; it made the decision years before Trump even announced his run for president.
Trump denied that he ever called female adversaries some of these things: “fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals.” He used all of those terms.
Trump said in June “there are no jobs” to be had, when official statistics were showing 5.4 million job openings — the most in 15 years.
Trump claimed economic growth in the U.S. has “never” been below zero — until the third quarter of 2015. “Who ever heard of this?” he asked. Except it’s not unheard of. Economic growth has been below zero 42 times since 1946.
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The one about Trump habitually calling women “fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals.” is exceptionally nice of him.
So is the one touting "autism is caused by vaccines". That one's gonna be great for causing little boys and girls to miss their innoculations and get sick.
***********************************
Here's The Benghazi Timeline, from the same source:

The Benghazi Timeline

Clinton never said right out that she believed the attack was caused by the anti-Muslim video. She said that that possibility was out there, and that if so, it was never right to respond to it by an attack, and she strongly condemned such a thing if it were so. Reading through all that, it doesn't cast the administration's foresight in a good light, clearly the place should have been better defended. And clearly, the entire administration was slow to call it a terrorist attack, even when evidence was piling up for that. I think they were caught off-guard, and that intelligence gathering was pretty badly performed. They were also juggling at the time the fact that there were responses to that video that could have snowballed, and that they were trying to defuse the situation so as not to let it provoke a larger explosion of violence in the region. That would have been exactly what al Qaeda would have desired to happen. I'm not a great fan of Hillary's. She is definitely in the better-than-thou group, and she is a pure politician. However, contending with multiple powderkegs and trying to wend and balance through every contingency to try to best serve her vision of what's best for our country can't be an easy job, to say the least. And it's never going to be perfect. Looking back from 1979 to present, EVERY administration has had events occur that took American lives. I don't believe she is guilty of not attempting to do everything she thought right to benefit America and American people.

" And then she called those family members liars." What is your source for this?

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LyinDan

1/17/2016 12:24:43 AM

Executive Overreach

Executive orders

As you can see, Obama has used fewer executive orders than 4 out of five directly previous Presidents, including George Bush.

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Larree

1/17/2016 3:35:02 AM

"And then she called those family members liars." What is your source for this?

My source? Interviews I have seen with the family members themselves. And I believe them over Hillary any day of the week. Hillary belongs in the big house. Not the White House.

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1/17/2016 3:40:40 AM

Okay. I'm totally confused again.

But I'm too old and tired to keep battling like this.
Lyin' Dan is making a lot of points here.
But I also understand Larree's disenchantment with everything.

So, I choose my next words carefully.

"Stop The World I Definitely Wanna Get The Fuck Off Now Please,
Please? I said Please dammit."

And...

"BACON FOR PRESIDENT!!!!"
(Bacon Makes EVERYTHING Better)

Could it really be?
That we're fucked no matter which way we turn?

I do know, the world's filled to the brim with people like me,
and by people like me, I mean idiots.

And we go back and forth, just like a friggin' pendulum.

And it ain't like we're so stupid that we have no clue,
how much rampant corruption there is,
on both sides, on any side, of any equation going.
Dan makes many good points here, sure as shit,
soon as money's involved in anything, out come the sharks.

Washington DC, has, oh, quite a few of them.
What is "Lobbying"?
It's bribery, now legalized bribery, only you still aren't allowed
to outright do it while calling it bribery.
And wow, the Supreme Court ruled it "A-Okay"...

sounds like somebody 'lobbied' the shit out of them if you ask me.

I don't know why, I like Trump.

Oh wait, maybe I do.
It's my perception that he's as crazy as a three-headed doorknob
heated to a temperature of two hundred and fifty degrees Fahrenheit,
and here's the guy who's actually going to Blow Up The World...

because pound for pound, it's all, an unwinnable equation,
where the good, just get pounded down, further and further, daily.
Being asked to put up with more, and do so with less.

Look at what the wealthiest have done to the rest of us.
Take take take take take and here's a pat on the head, now fuck off, po' folks.

Compared to, oh, just the changes in my own lifespan, I'm 56 years old,
the nation's wealth has been picked from our pockets,
and shoved whistling into the pockets of the rich.

Solve the problems? Any straight-faced discussion of solving the problems,
for real, involves invoking the name of God Almighty.

And I think, God Almighty, is about to draw a line here.
Not about who can marry who, 'cause that's bullshit,
and the idiots spouting 'kill the gays' will be sent to Total Hell.
Count on that shit, or find out the hard way, you pastor babble jerkoffs.

No, the line drawn is,
"You've fucked with my children long enough you abominations to Me"

And see, Trump, is no more perfect than anybody else,
but there is this thing about him, it's kinda hard to articulate,
but maybe I'll try to...

what makes him Great, is that, you just get the sense,

he'll pull out the Magic Wally no one else will.

He Will Blow Us All To Kingdom Come,
As We All Sing Hallelujah.

...and please, say what you will, argue the point,
list all the ways I cannot possibly be right about that... I actually wish you would,
any of you..

but I've sensed this was coming... a long time ago.

Evil, is more than Rampant.

It's even more than merely 'Everywhere'.

So I don't even know how to classify it anymore, really.
It's bloody bananas.

And I look up, and I say to God,
"Okay so this is the Last Days, huh?"

Only because,
If I Were God,

I'd be fixing to make a couple changes....

And My Secret Weapon,
Would Be Donald Trump.....

Oh yes, did I mention I'm crazy as a shithouse rat?
I am crazy as a shithouse rat.

And I'm gonna tell you,
I was a sweet relatively sane thing when I started.

The world saw to that shit pretty good.

See, I think, that Donald Trump
is going to prove----I know, it is pretty staggeringly grand in its implication, I know--
is going to prove, as inevitable, as Barack Obama was last time around.

Remember what I said 'bout "Pendulum"?
George W Bush, then it swung to Obama.
Where ya'll think it's goin' next?

It's goin' to End Game, and Trump is the Heralding Trumpet.
That would be my hunch. I could be wrong. What do I know anyway.

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Larree

1/17/2016 3:58:43 AM

People said the same thing about Reagan. He was going to blow up the world. He had the mark of the beast because his name was Ronald (6) Wilson (6) Reagan (6). He would be too quick to push the button because he was a cowboy. Really dumb stuff. Donald Trump will be a good president. I totally trust the guy to do the right thing.

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1/17/2016 4:03:09 AM

Oh I never said you cannot...

I mean, just because I don't trust anyone...
doesn't mean you have to feel that way, Sir.

There is some argument after a while, about what in fact
the 'right thing' even is.

And yeah, I remember the talk about Reagan, but he was a simpleton.
Donald is not a simpleton, he's actually quite complex.
Again, I like Trump. Okay? We like the same guy, please let's not fight.
I hate it when we fight. You and I like the same guy, so let's not fight.

And if I happen to think that he may be the one
who is God's Instrument Of OH NO YOU DON'T...

Larree, I do not say that like it's a bad thing.

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1/17/2016 4:04:06 AM

Incidentally, nice to see you, up at this hour no less...

Jeez what's it three, four in the morning there?

You're up at all crazy hours just like me aren't you.

Kindred souls if you ask me, Larree.

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1/17/2016 4:07:28 AM

Reagan was ever a real cowboy?
I thought he was an actor.

" Donald Trump will be a good president. I totally trust the guy to do the right thing."

Actually, I cannot say I disagree with you Larree.

We just may see the components to this differently...

I think Donald Trump Will Be The Best President EVER.
And, Yes, I Completely Trust Donald To Do The Right Thing.

as for what that is, how we get there, little shit like that...

that's fine points... details...

basically we agree,
and it is nice to see you.

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Larree

1/17/2016 4:13:30 AM

Definitely not looking for a fight this morning. gtsy, too. Yeah, it is way too early here. Goodnight!

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1/17/2016 4:21:21 AM

Much Love to you, Sir. Sleep Well. Night Night. See you in the morning.

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LyinDan

1/17/2016 11:02:27 AM

Here's what I find concerning the "called families liars"

From The Daily Wire (one of hoard of vicious Republican propagandists)
Hank Berrien
January 4, 2016

Here’s a quiz: Who is likely to blame for lying about whether the Benghazi terrorist attack that killed four Americans was caused by a video, well-known liar Hillary Clinton or the families of the Benghazi victims?

If you guessed the victims’ families, then you win the Hillary Clinton Most Outrageous Lie To Date Award.

The Conway Daily Sun’s Tom McLaughlin, interviewing the Liaress-in Chief, pointed out that Clinton had told an Egyptian diplomat the Benghazi attack was planned but then informed family members of the victims that the attack was triggered by a demonstration. He added that she further told ABC News Clinton hack George Stephanopoulos that she didn't tell the families the attack was caused by a demonstration about a film. McLaughlin asked pointedly, "Somebody is lying. Who is it?

Clinton answered, “Not me, that's all I can tell you.” McLaughlin responded that three family members victims claimed Clinton told them that the attack was the result of the video and/or that the filmmaker should be arrested.

Clinton: "I can't recite for you everything that was in a conversation where people were sobbing, where people were distraught, the president and the vice president, we were all making the rounds talking to people, listening to people. I was in a very difficult position because we have not yet said two of the four dead were CIA ... This was a part of the fog of war."
********************************************
Well, the prejudice and slant of the story speak for themselves.
But it does have some actual quotes.
Clinton just said she's not lying in answer to a setup question.
As usual, the whole thing is overblown.
Not that Hillary doesn't lie. Name me a politician or government official who doesn't. It's pretty much a requisite for the job.

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Larree

1/17/2016 11:51:21 AM ---- Updated 1/17/2016 12:01:50 PM

I do not believe a word that comes out of Hillary Clinton's mouth.

Remember her lie about getting shot at when she landed someplace in a helicopter? Middle East, I think. A total lie. She is a liar through and through.

Okay! It was Bosnia! Not the Middle East!

Anyway, her lies are well documented:

Hillary's List of Lies (from a 2008 article)
By Dick Morris (And yes Dick Morris is a conservative. But no left wingnut is going to be honest about this stuff.)

Hillary simply cannot tell the truth. Here's her scorecard:

Admitted Lies

• Chelsea was jogging around the Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001. (She was in bed watching it on TV.)
• Hillary was named after Sir Edmund Hillary. (She admitted she was wrong. He climbed Mt. Everest five years after her birth.)
• She was under sniper fire in Bosnia. (A girl presented her with flowers at the foot of the ramp.)
• She learned in The Wall Street Journal how to make a killing in the futures market. (It didn't cover the market back then.)

Whoppers She Won't Confess To

• She didn't know about the FALN pardons.
• She didn't know that her brothers were being paid to get pardons that Clinton granted.
• Taking the White House gifts was a clerical error.
• She didn't know that her staff would fire the travel office staff after she told them to do so.
• She didn't know that the Peter Paul fundraiser in Hollywood in 2000 cost $700,000 more than she reported it had.
• She opposed NAFTA at the time.
• She was instrumental in the Irish peace process.
• She urged Bill to intervene in Rwanda.
• She played a role in the '90s economic recovery.
• The billing records showed up on their own.
• She thought Bill was innocent when the Monica scandal broke.
• She was always a Yankees fan.
• She had nothing to do with the New Square Hasidic pardons (after they voted for her 1,400-12 and she attended a meeting at the White House about the pardons).
• She negotiated for the release of refugees in Macedonia (who were released the day before she got there).

With a record like that, is it any wonder that we suspect her of being less than honest and straightforward?

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