| | | |
Holo Lukaloa
|
2/15/2008 3:22:27 AM
McCain flip-flops on torture, Democratic Congress finally puts foot down to Dubya's fear-mongering. Clintons get negative.
That's the news for today.
|
|
Jeff Allen Myers
|
2/15/2008 9:14:44 AM
Holo, It is looking more and more like you will get your wish, and Obama will be the presumptive candidate for President.
I sincerely hope the man starts getting a little more specific...platitudes and generic phrases like "Yes we can" and words like "change" are all well and good, but I am tired of listening to speech after speech, while eloquent in delivery, say absolutly nothing. Please do not direct me to his webpage, I have been there...there is a laundry list of things with know discussion on how it will be accomplished.
I recently spent sometime looking at speeches given by John F. Kennedy. Someone people like to compare Obama too for his ability to inspire. The attached link has tran_scripts of many of JFK'S speeches. What I found was a man that was well versed on the issues of the day, and was not afraid to talk about them...and "offer" a plan how to deal with them. He had a firm grasp of foreign policy and economic issues.
In defense of Obama, In an age of so much media politicians need to play it safe, and deliver speeches with more buzz words then substance...for substance does not sell to an electorate that cares more for flash then substance.
I want the President to be the best person for the job period, I don't believe we have that here with either Obama or McCain. .....
Before the Obama defenders jump on me, I am looking for a reason to consider him...I would like a little more substance then bumper sticker phrases.
Jeff
|
|
Jeff Allen Myers
|
2/15/2008 9:15:59 AM
http://www.jfklibrary.org/Historical+Resources/Archives/Reference+Desk/Speeches/JFK/JFK+Pre-Pres/002PREPRES12SPEECHES_60FEB07.htm
Here is the link.....
|
|
Holo Lukaloa
|
2/15/2008 9:18:14 AM
Larree,
How you feel about the nation's security is one thing but pay attention to what Bush is doing right now. He's vetoing the very bill that will keep the surveillance that he claims we need intact in order to push to indemnify the telecom companies from lawsuits. He's putting those companies over your security by his own very definitions.
|
|
Holo Lukaloa
|
2/15/2008 9:23:58 AM
We look "sissified" if we are against torture? That's absurd. Our truest bluest ally Canada even has us on a list now of countries that violate human rights.
You scoff at waterboarding, implying it's not manly to be repulsed by torture, but if a simulated drowning was being performed on you, you'd feel differently. It really surprises me that somebody with your background and heritage as stated here on the pipeline would want your country to be participating in this kind of thing, not to mention holding prisoners without trial.
|
|
Raveztar
|
2/15/2008 9:39:23 AM
To me there are several things that we look for in a president. After being uninspired for the last 7.5 years the fact that someone can inspire us is worth something. Perhaps intangible but still worth something. More and more the president represents an icon than actually the person that will accomplish anything. Very few presidents actually submit bills they themselves came up with. Since the Government is really a group of people and not just a president then the idea of "change" becomes very attractive even without specifics. The idea to listen to the other side and compromise. I submit that McCain and Clinton will not come close to doing this. The idea is to change the tone in the way things get accomplished not to have solid plans that you submit are yours and then say its my way or the highway. This is what the country is most desperate for. The best person for that job is Obama.
|
|
Holo Lukaloa
|
2/15/2008 9:41:26 AM
Obama gave a speech the other day heavy in details in Wisconsin to an auto plant. I believe the so called lack of substance in his speeches is overstated and is basically a spin created by the Clintons and those who are competing with him. I have heard the man speak many times and part of the reason he is so charismatic, I believe, is that he displays logic and talking points that are quite intelligent and often brilliant.
I'll tell you what substance is - having the foresight to understand why the Iraq war was a stupid idea, and the courage to vote against the flow. He was proven to be right and a large majority of Americans know the score now as well. Now that's substance. Anybody familiar with the candidates at this juncture also knows that Obama is in favor of aggressive diplomacy with our enemies, will actually try to talk to them and close that gap which will clearly be a big improvement on the cold political madness of previous administrations which have brought the US to this era where many European countries and much of the world frowns upon our leadership.
We already know exactly what the Clintons bring to the table, their shiftiness and politicizing. McCain is a laughable candidate because not only is he not that smart but as far as foreign relations go, he promises more of the same as we've had the last 7 plus years (the worst presidency in my lifetime). Who could possibly want to extend policies that have destroyed America's standing in the world community?
|
|
Holo Lukaloa
|
2/15/2008 9:47:19 AM
I also have no concern about how we are being judged by terrorists who have skewed principles and insane rationales. If anything, America being a torturing nation probably inspires them more towards evil acts. There's also absolutely no evidence that torture brings out the truth in prisoners.
|
|
Jeff Allen Myers
|
2/15/2008 10:36:55 AM
Holo, I am speaking of my own experience listening to the man...as for being influenced by a spin by the Clintons?? Please! Perhaps you can direct me to a tran_script so I can judge for myself. Thank you.
As for the President? the ability to sign into law, Veto, or Nominate supreme court justices are Huge responsibilities...I am sure Holo would agree. The President is more then just a figurehead.
As for the Iraq war...IF..and I state IF... the reasons for entering the war were true, Obamas reluctance is a sign of weakness in my mind.
IF Hussein did have weapons of Mass destruction the war was justified......In hindsight the decision to enter the war was foolish. we can "Monday morning quarterback" all you like... The majority of Congress voted to go to war on the information presented.
|
|
TNT
|
2/15/2008 10:44:19 AM
"As for the President? the ability to sign into law, Veto, or Nominate supreme court justices are Huge responsibilities...I am sure Holo would agree. The President is more then just a figurehead."
And more than just an impact in the USA!!!!!!!!
I feel that the choice of President affects us all - GLOBALLY - .
The power the US wield internationally realistically means that in a small way it's a global election, but we outside the US don't get a say!
More than a little worrying I'd say.
(then again what I know about US politics wouldn't get you very far)!!!
|
|
.jpg)
Bob Elliott
|
2/15/2008 2:42:30 PM
Larree says, "And imagine how sissified we look, arguing about water and loud music as forms of torture. I don't believe in torture for torture's sake, but we are definitely laughable to our enemies. Laughable. And that is a simple fact."
Waterboarding is torture, and torture is against what this country should ever practice. Whether or not this is a laughable principle to a terrorist (I doubt it is), is irrelevant. Your point seems to be that we are being sissies. THAT idea would be laughable if it weren't somewhat sick and scary. That you would be more worried about seeming to be a sissy than whether we were a country that had respect for moral standards- there's a problem. Later on you claim to think it is good to do all we can to treat prisoners humanely. If that is what you think, why post about looking laughable to a terrorist?
|
|
Bob Elliott
|
2/15/2008 3:21:32 PM
I do not understand your point. Whether or not a terrorist thinks our country is a joke (they claim to think it's worse than a joke) would have no bearing on the question of whether we should waterboard. We run our country based on what we think is right, not based on what they think is right. They also think it's a joke to give our women any freedoms. So what?
Your comment about the five year old has no context. Our conversation on waterboarding is directed at each other, not them. It's not their decision, we're not consulting them. We are discussing our own moral standing with each other to be sure we actually stay within bounds we believe in.
Since when would we define these things along the lines of an enemy's thinking? Why would we reference how they feel about it when we do not agree with their thoughts on torture?
Whether or not they think our debates are a joke is irrelevant. We know they are worthy, that's why you'd rather live here than there.
|
|
Bob Elliott
|
2/15/2008 4:31:25 PM
All you're saying is that you support waterboarding. I think it's tortue and as such we shouldn't be practicing it. Up until the Bush admin. the U.S. was very clear in defining this technique as torture. We condemned it when used by other countries and we always have until this.
Knowing our enemy has nothing to do with what we allow. It's obvious what they would allow, they practice terrorism. The question is about what we value.
|
|
qelizabeth
|
2/15/2008 5:12:43 PM
It's downright silly that his wonderful ability to inspire is being used against him by some. Or at least that people can't get past the skepticism and look at his platform. I understand where you're coming from, it's a healthy cynicism, but give the guy a chance. Look deeper.
So many people who don't support Obama say, 'He's a great speaker and inspirational and all, but . . .'
One reason he's able to inspire people is because he IS inspiring. And what's so bad about that? As long as he's got substance too. He speaks to the masses about grand ideas, like hope and change. But he gets down to details when he talks in smaller rooms, about health care, or the economy, etc. Those speeches and discussions don't usually make it to the network news, but they can be found on youtube.
He's got a good platform and good character. And he's proven to us that, in 2002 before the Iraq war started, he's wise. He was spot on in his opinions about it. Everything he said back then is what nearly everybody's saying today about it.
It reminds me of the pretty girl in school who also happened to be sweet and smart, who people automatically hated, or judged her only by her looks.
Believe me, it took me a while to decide on a candidate, and I was wondering if there was anything beyond his words. I found much information on him, in various places. His platform, is spelled out in detail and with great substance on his website, www.barackobama.com
He's thought this out. I assure you. And he's thought it out intelligently.
I think he's able to make a case and not only have good ideas, but negotiating ability to get things passed.
He's also running an amazing campaign, and has taken the high road each time his opponents try to get negative or petty, all the while staying strong and competitive. I'm really impressed. Even Bill Clinton's former campaign manager is endorsing Obama.
Anyway, that concludes today's broadcast.
|
|
Shady Rosy
|
2/16/2008 12:42:33 PM
I have to add my 2-cents here. In Canada , our Government is so damn stupid that they have known terrorist sympathisers living here as refugees.
Frankly - I don't want bloody terrorists here and I don't give a crap if they get caught. If someone wants to come to this beautiful country to make a better life for themselves, that's great - but bloody leave your filthy medeavel customs and little wars behind. and, if you ARE a terrorist, you damn well deserve whatever you get.
-
|
|
LyinDan
|
2/16/2008 6:20:16 PM
qelizabeth said it all for me. nothing to add. just supportin.
|
|
| |
�2015-16 IndieMusicPeople.com All Rights
Reserved
| |