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Holo Lukaloa
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3/18/2008 10:02:21 AM
The first great statesman America has had since the sixties came into his own today.
Barack Obama in Philadelphia this morning:
"We the people, in order to form a more perfect union."
Two hundred and twenty one years ago, in a hall that still stands across the street, a group of men gathered and, with these simple words, launched America's improbable experiment in democracy. Farmers and scholars; statesmen and patriots who had traveled across an ocean to escape tyranny and persecution finally made real their declaration of independence at a Philadelphia convention that lasted through the spring of 1787.
The document they produced was eventually signed but ultimately unfinished. It was stained by this nation's original sin of slavery, a question that divided the colonies and brought the convention to a stalemate until the founders chose to allow the slave trade to continue for at least twenty more years, and to leave any final resolution to future generations.
Of course, the answer to the slavery question was already embedded within our Constitution - a Constitution that had at is very core the ideal of equal citizenship under the law; a Constitution that promised its people liberty, and justice, and a union that could be and should be perfected over time.
And yet words on a parchment would not be enough to deliver slaves from bondage, or provide men and women of every color and creed their full rights and obligations as citizens of the United States. What would be needed were Americans in successive generations who were willing to do their part - through protests and struggle, on the streets and in the courts, through a civil war and civil disobedience and always at great risk - to narrow that gap between the promise of our ideals and the reality of their time.
This was one of the tasks we set forth at the beginning of this campaign - to continue the long march of those who came before us, a march for a more just, more equal, more free, more caring and more prosperous America. I chose to run for the presidency at this moment in history because I believe deeply that we cannot solve the challenges of our time unless we solve them together - unless we perfect our union by understanding that we may have different stories, but we hold common hopes; that we may not look the same and we may not have come from the same place, but we all want to move in the same direction - towards a better future for of children and our grandchildren.
This belief comes from my unyielding faith in the decency and generosity of the American people. But it also comes from my own American story.
I am the son of a black man from Kenya and a white woman from Kansas. I was raised with the help of a white grandfather who survived a Depression to serve in Patton's Army during World War II and a white grandmother who worked on a bomber assembly line at Fort Leavenworth while he was overseas. I've gone to some of the best schools in America and lived in one of the world's poorest nations. I am married to a black American who carries within her the blood of slaves and slaveowners - an inheritance we pass on to our two precious daughters. I have brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, uncles and cousins, of every race and every hue, scattered across three continents, and for as long as I live, I will never forget that in no other country on Earth is my story even possible.
It's a story that hasn't made me the most conventional candidate. But it is a story that has seared into my genetic makeup the idea that this nation is more than the sum of its parts - that out of many, we are truly one.
Throughout the first year of this campaign, against all predictions to the contrary, we saw how hungry the American people were for this message of unity. Despite the temptation to view my candidacy through a purely racial lens, we won commanding victories in states with some of the whitest populations in the country. In South Carolina, where the Confederate Flag still flies, we built a powerful coalition of African Americans
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Hop On Pop
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3/18/2008 10:21:56 AM
Perhaps the greatest piece of American oratory in the last 4 decades. Maybe more.
Unfortunately the media will parse it and pick it apart and the pundits will twist it around (like they are paid to do) until it's lost much of its power and true meaning.
I do believe that the video of the full speech is already available on YouTube.
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Holo Lukaloa
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3/18/2008 10:36:54 AM
Wow. I just read it in full after seeing it earlier today and my face is covered in tears.
Everybody please read this if you have 10 minutes free in your day. Or watch it on the news, I'm sure it will be replayed. Or on You Tube.
Don't let the manipulations of clever and motivated longtime politicians and a media trying to sell ad dollars with whatever slop they can provide to tittilate you keep you away from supporting this great man.
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Bob Elliott
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3/18/2008 11:15:25 AM
A great man comes our way, and it's like we have no frame of reference for such a thing.
That's what I keep thinking. They keep trying to deal with him as just another politician when he so obviously has another quality which is not a false quality. That has been apparent, but much of the country is having a difficult time figuring out what to do with a politician that is not a fake and is actually above average in understanding and expression. A leader.
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Hop On Pop
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3/18/2008 12:16:55 PM
Throughout history, Americans have had a knack for picking the right leader to bring the country forward at critical times (with one notable, recent exception).
I think that, when November comes around, we will elect the right person to take on these unprecedented challenges. No matter what the jaded public and even more jaded press' take is on the subject and on the candidates.
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satch
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3/18/2008 12:32:28 PM
It's a very good time to start! Hope flourishes!
And also, read some Eckhart Tolle, great work! Really.
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The Man With No Band
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3/18/2008 1:21:20 PM
I wish everyone still carried these kinds of ideals ... I'm thinking that it sure would help to put someone in charge of this country that does ... and I'm thinking that just maybe it will rub off on the people...
Holo ... Thx for having hope ... I'm thinking his election would surely brighten your outlook ... (and many others also)
Hop ... Nice sentiments ..
Satch ... Thx. for the reading tip ... I'll be sure to check out Eckhart Tolle
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Loren DiGiorgi
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3/18/2008 1:27:28 PM
I'll second, third and fourth that. It was a fantastic speech, the likes of which this country has not heard for many, many years. Indeed, decades.
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3/18/2008 2:35:55 PM
"For he is the Kwisatz Haderach"
I'm all ferklempt ... and salty eyed. I believe with all my heart this is the man for the job at the right time... I only hope time does.
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Nerol
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3/18/2008 6:07:23 PM
Just curious, Larree...did you listen to the speech?
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Nerol
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3/18/2008 6:18:32 PM
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Nerol
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3/18/2008 6:23:32 PM
...but allow me to add... IF Obama wins the presidency, he will have my prayers and my full support as an American citizen, as will McCain if he wins. As will Billary if he/she wins! Why? Because I am an American FIRST. :D
Sorry, I think that kind of thinking is dangerous! We're not a country of lemmings. If a moron gets in, you're saying the country should unite behind a moron??
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Holo Lukaloa
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3/18/2008 6:42:21 PM
Larree, last political discussion we all had you claimed to be open minded. I don't believe you are at all. I don't believe any intelligent person could witness or read that speech today without being moved. It seems you're submerging further into silliness. Maybe you're becoming disgruntled because your man McCain keeps displaying that he doesn't really know much about foreign policy at all, perchance?
If you understood you would know that Obama is the one who is trying to take this country beyond all the petty divides.
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HunkaFunk
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3/18/2008 6:46:33 PM
We can only hope that these are the words of the next President. Truth always has a ring to it, like good Music, that can't be denied. I felt that the insight Mr. Obama has is uncanny, as I read through the speech. We all have Friends who's tact is less than perfect, or who are diametrically opposed to us in beliefs, or philosophy, and we would never disown them, or disfellowship them from our circle of friends. I'm sure Mr. Obama is smart enough, like we are, not to take advise from a maniac friend. The American people are primed, and ready for change, after 8 years of dubya, I know I am. I'm thinking probably, a Woman vice, yeah, I've seen it in a dream...it could happen. Yes we can!
Love and infinite Peace, now,
T.J. Franklin
HunkaFunk
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Vartan
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3/18/2008 7:43:12 PM
And of course, Laree, you are free to vote for whomever you choose because we live in a free society. One that has the ability to move in the directions the people choose. Our votes are our voices in government! Get out there and make the choice your heart deems correct.
Personally, after reading this speech just now for the first time, I have confirmed in my mind that I want Obama for president. I haven't read anything from a politician (check that....and American politician) in my lifetime that has made so much sense to me. I am sick of W always fumbling for words and making the United States that laughing stock of the world. We need someone intelligent. Someone who will do what it right and end the war in Iraq. The last eight years have killed me a little inside and I can't wait to be free of the yolk of Bushism. New blood! No more Bushes, no more Clintons. Hell, we've been dealing with this crap since Reagan. End it.
Obama in 08!!!!!!
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Vartan
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3/18/2008 7:44:55 PM
that was supposed to be:
(check that....AN a American politician)
I read it over before I submitted it too. Damn.
Peace, love & music,
V
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Vartan
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3/18/2008 7:45:52 PM
I am really screwing up here:
"AN American politician"
WTF! I am sleepy. G'night.
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Hop On Pop
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3/19/2008 5:32:25 AM
And look where sticking with someone who ISN'T a "flip-flopper" got us!
I believed before yesterday that Obama was the leader we need right now. And, after yesterday's speech, I only belive it moreso.
Bottom line is there has not been a pol. in recent memory who has the overall, encompassing vision of the American Society that Obama has. Nobody knows for sure how to fix things, but you gotta start with a vision, and he's the only one that I've seen who has anything approaching that.
But yeah, you gotta play the game, too.
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Hop On Pop
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3/19/2008 5:51:46 AM
Don't give Jewish Mama's Guilt to a Nice Jewish Boy if you ain't his mama.
The only fist fight I ever got into was with a kid who called me a "kike".
And to your point, I'd rather have Jimmy Carter than Chim-Chim.
Still, I think Obama has a lot more going on than Jimmy does.
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Hop On Pop
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3/19/2008 6:03:25 AM
Context, Larree. Context.
The man was preaching to his congregation. And, the comments were taken OUT of context. Have you listened to the ENTIRE sermon? No? Neither have I. So I reserve judgement on the man. (Farrakahn, on the other hand...)
Truth is: the country IS controlled/run by rich white men. And, being in charge (and in-charge for so long), they DO look after their own interests. Perhaps it's not blatant, intentional racism, but there is racism built into the system.
And, as one who has been the target of racism, just like you, I am looking forward to the day when the tables are not so-much turned (that would be just as bad) but at least set with places for everybody. I think that is the message of the Obama campaign and that is why I gravitate to the man.
Have you listened to/read Obama's entire speech yesterday? Do so and you'll hear that he's NOT defending the Reverend. But he's speaking to the complexities of the human condition.
Read it. Listen to it. And I dare you not to be moved. Simply because the man speaks the truth; a rare thing to find in the political arena. Especially these days.
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Kevin White
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3/19/2008 6:10:44 AM
Although I lean towards libertarian than anything else, I'm an independent voter who pays attention to issues.
As I see it, Obama has the correct issues on center, and he's got the intelligence and pulpit power to push for positive, real change. If he can't get it done, I'm not sure who can. I don't think Hilary can, because she creates too much friction where she walks. McCain, I believe, doesn't have the same handle on things ... and he waffles with political winds.
Obama is correct in his assertion that the powers that be, the brilliant champions of capitalism that brought both Enron and Bear Stearns, corporate pirating and prostitution far removed from the trenches, with no concern for the bodies in the trenches ... call it Ivory Tower syndrome ... have extremely crippled the middle class.
Frankly, I don't think a Republican in office will fix that problem. I think a Republican, or even a Libertarian, will ignore it as something they don't see as a problem.
It's a problem.
I do worry that the democrats will tax and spend, but then I remember that the last president who was fiscally responsible, and paid down the ntnl debt was ... Bill Clinton.
The last three pubbies (Reagen, George II and George III) were VASTLY bigger spenders ... all the while cutting taxes and putting the extra spending "on our tab".
So ...
Yeah ...
Let's give the new guy a spin and see if he can get it done. He seems to know what's wrong.
Kev-
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Hop On Pop
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3/19/2008 6:20:08 AM
Hillary vs. Obama -- the KKK takes Hillary.
Point?
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Hop On Pop
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3/19/2008 6:35:11 AM
I made it up. But do you really think that the Klan is rooting for Obama at all?
:-D
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Holo Lukaloa
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3/19/2008 7:43:19 AM
Larree, you're really starting to pollute my posts with sheer idiocy. I wish I could put in a requirement that those participating in my political topics know how to read and write because that would shut down your blowhole.
Obama has denounced Farrakhan up and down. Do you really believe Obama is anti-semetic or believes the US government brought in AIDS to kill the black man? If you do, you're dumber than dumb. If you don't, what his pastor did shouldn't affect your views in such an extreme manner. Either way for the purposes of this pipeline you're becoming such a pathetic propaganda spewer that you make Fox News look fair-and-balanced.
Now here's another thing. Obama said that he wasn't there to witness the statements that they are rolling endlessly on Fox News and You Tube. Incidentally I might add that if they had more footage, they'd be showing it but it's just the same 4 or 5 clips from what, close to 30 years of Wright being a pastor. Then, in his speech, Obama said that he did witness some controversial statements in his church. That is not clearly not the same thing as witnessing the very statements on those clips, Mr. simpleton. So it really wasn't a flipflop at all. If you want to see flipflops, look at McCain or Hilary every day of the week.
Speaking of flipflops, last week you were claiming you're open minded and would consider Obama. Now you're dissing the whole process in order to waste your vote on somebody who has no chance of being elected. What kind of stance is it that you won't commit to voting for any of the candidates but you will defend the president to the hilt whoever it is? You're the kind of political zombie that has created a system that would install such a sorry president as George W. Bush and keep him in power for 8 years. You, Larree, flipflop more than an olympic gymnast only they're a joy to watch and you're just an embarrassment. :>)
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Hop On Pop
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3/19/2008 8:17:46 AM
Holo,
As much as I disagree with Larree -- and I DO disagree with him, often -- let's not stoop to name-calling. Let's not stoop to spitting out tirades, or you become the Fox News of the Left.
Yeah, he pisses me off sometimes too. But, let's keep in mind that we all want the same thing -- the best for the country. We just disagree about how to go about it.
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LyinDan
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3/19/2008 8:46:42 AM
"Larree, you're really starting to pollute my posts with sheer idiocy. "
After years of reading Larree, I can tell ya, this is his niche, Please don't harass him.
(bwahahaha)
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Jeff Allen Myers
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3/19/2008 8:48:40 AM
"Larree, you're really starting to pollute my posts with sheer idiocy. I wish I could put in a requirement that those participating in my political topics know how to read and write because that would shut down your blowhole"
Holo, when you start out posts like that you lose all respect and relevency. Seriously, you have opinions...they are not fact. You sir are no genius, nor am I. You are dissecting information through a filter, one that adheres to your belief system. There is nothing wrong with that, please respect those that choose to get into a dialog with you. It would really be much more effective in getting your points across, and have people respect them.
Jeff
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satch
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3/19/2008 9:15:09 AM
Besides of which and apart from everything else he's ever said - Larree's point about throwing out ALL the dems and ALL the reps is the best approach to changing the way the USA is - like a revolution by using the system! I'm with Larree - vote non-dem and non-rep.
And go read Eckhart Tolle!
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Jo Ellen
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3/19/2008 9:49:00 AM
I tend to adopt a world-view when it comes to political endeavors. I think patriotism for its own sake can be very destructive, but it can help to create unity and support at critical times. I think understanding a candidates values, ideals, beliefs, and background are important (and in this case possibly, genuine). But more importantly, will the election make a DIFFERENCE? I am perplexed, concerned, and skeptical. But, like Laree I will pray. You can be sure of that..
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Hop On Pop
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3/19/2008 10:35:52 AM
Oh and for the record, Larree, party affilliation would not make a great man any less great. It's only blindly following the dogma that the party has set forward -- being a lemming -- that would make that man (or woman) any less great.
Not saying that Barack Obama is a great man, or that John McCain or Hillary Clinton are NOT great leaders. History has yet to hand down its ruling.
But, as Americans, we have the duty to ourselves and to our country to look beyond mere party affilliation to find not only a great leader, but the best leader FOR OUR TIMES.
Were it John McCain vs. John Kerry in '04, I would have a damn hard time deciding. But right now, the choice (while very difficult at first) is getting easier and easier. And it does not lie hidden in a third party.
At least, not in my eyes.
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Hop On Pop
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3/19/2008 10:38:05 AM
Oh and, again, for the record:
If we were to kick out all Dems. and Reps., the new folk coming in would simply coalesce into NEW parties within 10-20 years. Because organization is how you raise money. And money is what helps you get elected.
A sad but true fact of US politics.
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Holo Lukaloa
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3/19/2008 10:48:37 AM
Jeffy, who are you to lecture me about this when the whole sum of your posts are generally ad hominem attacks on me?
Satch, if you took the time to read Obama's words I believe you would find him to be a kindred spirit to yourself. Instead, you take the easy way out and just dismiss all candidates. You should stay out of American politics. :>)
"Holo. you are a facist scumbag. What would you do if you were prez? Kill anyone who disagreed with you?"
I'm waiting to hear anybody reprimand Larree for personal attacks like they do me. Hypocrites. ;D He's the one who started doing that in the first place, weeks ago. The reason nobody says the same to him I'm guessing is they feel so sorry for him for the weakness of his point of view. :>)
"if Obama wins, I will be just as supportive of him, as I would be of ANY U.S. president. Are you OPEN enough to do the same if McCain wins? Probably not."
Of course I won't support that dullard McCain as he foolishly continues the war and follows in Bush's footsteps across the board.
"A vote for a dem or a rep is a wasted voted."
Last week you said you were going to vote for McCain but you were open to Obama. Flipflopper. Why don't you vote for Ralph Nader, then you can say you voted and have absolutely no effect on anything. That's actually for the best, thank you, the country is lucky you're not voting. Also, I wanted to remind you that it's time to go back and get your GED, Lawrence. :>)
Let's get back to the main point. Today Obama is giving a big speech on the Iraq war and tomorrow he's giving a big speech on the war and our economy, that one is needed in the worst way. I recommend everybody watch both. We can all learn a thing or 2 from this extraordinarily intelligent man.
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Hop On Pop
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3/19/2008 11:00:38 AM
The reason we don't go after Larree head-on is becasue most of us have already had tussles with him in the past and we know his style/modus operandi.
It's just Larree.
Yeah we take him seriously, but not his vitrol. He's a pretty good guy, regardless.
You we don't know as well.
I agree with your views, both on Obama and, for the most part, politically, in general. But I do think that you bait Larree (and other conservatives) -- intentionally or not. And then, when they respond in kind, instead of engaging in sound debate, you elevate the confrontation.
I think that you're probably a good guy, too. But you need to take a step back and chill before you fire off a response to a point of view that contradicts your own.
WWBD?
"What Would Barack Do?"
oh, i'm gonna hear it for that one!!!
;-)
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satch
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3/19/2008 11:02:28 AM
---- Updated 3/19/2008 11:02:28 AM
"Satch, if you took the time to read Obama's words I believe you would find him to be a kindred spirit to yourself. Instead, you take the easy way out and just dismiss all candidates. You should stay out of American politics. :>)"
Talk about "reading someone's words" - I did not dismiss all candidates, just those affiliated to the dems and the reps! Thereare other candidates, aren't there???
And American politics, unfortunately, have a global impact, which makes my views on those politics as valid as any American person! Sheesh Holo, debate is good, it helps people to understand each other, but dude, simply dissing those who present a different view to your own is not going to change anything, all it will do is make everyone more entrenched and defensive. The way to make a point when you disagree with someone is to present a coherent argument, not a rude rant!
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Jo Ellen
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3/19/2008 11:05:34 AM
Hey Larree,
How do you REALLY feel? (j/k) I think its good that everyone gets to have their say. It gets the wheels turnin'. Know what I mean? (wink).
I have not made a decision of support. So it is good to hear different perspectives.
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The CODE
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3/19/2008 11:35:23 AM
Easy - Vote Ron Paul!!!
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Holo Lukaloa
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3/19/2008 11:52:28 AM
---- Updated 3/19/2008 11:55:11 AM
I mispoke, Satch, you only dismiss all the candidates who are actually relevant, who may actually be our next president. Of course if a 3rd party candidate ran as a republican or democrat, by your definition he would suddenly become one of the skunks. :>)
I see, Hop on Pop. Larree is allowed to call me an asshole because he's just Larree but I'm not allowed to do the same because you don't know me. Do you usually subscribe to this kind of double standard in your life and if so, how's it working for you? :>)
"But I do think that you bait Larree (and other conservatives) -- intentionally or not."
I posted Obama's speech and said that I liked it. Was that baiting Larree? I didn't think so because the last time we had this discussion he said he was open and considering Obama. Do you think he read that speech before he spouted off here?
"And then, when they respond in kind, instead of engaging in sound debate, you elevate the confrontation."
Larree didn't respond in kind or engage in sound debate. He posted misleading, fundamentally dishonest comments about Obama here, and defecated on the dialogue.
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Jo Ellen
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3/19/2008 12:03:15 PM
If you're looking for some heated "reality IAC", just post about politics or religion...
I have total faith that we will always learn something from differing points of view, or at least we will have inspiration for new music endeavors. Lots of Love!
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Hop On Pop
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3/19/2008 12:04:15 PM
I see, Hop on Pop. Larree is allowed to call me an asshole because he's just Larree but I'm not allowed to do the same because you don't know me. Do you usually subscribe to this kind of double standard in your life and if so, how's it working for you? :>)
I allow Larree to call ME an asshole, and just shrug when he does the same to you. It's not a double standard. I just know his personality and the person behind the words, wheras, I cannot really say the same about you.
Did YOU read Obama's speech?
Kinda like that.
I know Larree to be basically a good person, so I can forgive him his missteps and offenses, although they may make me cringe at times. (And they do.)
I don't know you as well. And, frankly, most of what I've seen from you has been incendiary, so it's harder for me to defend you. (Please note I am not taking sides, I'm just not able to defend you... because I cannot, based upon what I've seen.)
As I said, you do appear to be a basically good person, and you and I do share a lot of the same opinions. It's just a matter of you present yourself and, more importantly, how you listen to and consider dissenting views.
When you give Larree a chance, he will listen and consider your views before insulting you!
I let my friends insult me because I know where it's coming from and I know that it's done with affection. But not some guy on the street and certainly not some guy in the back of the class who has done nothing but hurl insults since the bell rang.
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Hop On Pop
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3/19/2008 12:10:36 PM
Larree didn't respond in kind or engage in sound debate. He posted misleading, fundamentally dishonest comments about Obama here, and defecated on the dialogue.
Again, I think this comes from knowing Larree.
So, now is the time to engage him... maybe one-on-one and see what the hell he's really saying.
In fact, I think that he IS making his points more lucidly as the thread goes on. Go back and read them, and let's try to bury the proverbial hatchet.
And not in each other's backs!
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Jo Ellen
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3/19/2008 12:28:36 PM
I've been thinking about what is being said, and it reminds me of conversations I have had at home. Based on history, NY has always gone to the democrats, regardless of my particular vote. Now, I could just say "screw it" and vote with the majority, or not vote at all, or I could continue to vote my opinion. I think for me, the greatest frustration is to feel like in this great democracy I don't really have a choice. I hear the frustration regarding the dominance of two particular parties, and the seeming improbability of a third party president. But, isn't it our right to vote our opinion, regardless? I think it is very important for the sake of democracy for everyone to have their say -be it in an online forum or at the polls. The scariest reality for me would be if everyone always agreed, without scrutiny of ideas or differences in opinion.
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LyinDan
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3/19/2008 1:48:06 PM
Larree has actually calmed down greatly in the past couple of years. I sort of miss the old days when even I had to moderate a few of his words (something about broken glass and rectums) and I'm the most immoderate, I mean, unmoderate, uh, unmoderating, guy around. Oh, well, the world is going to hell with moderating behavior (mostly self-moderating), nowadays. At least you know exactly where you stand with Larree (at any particular split second, anyway).
Personally, I'm not offended by the Holo/Larree show. Either side of it.
And I just wanted to mention, Obama 08!
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SqurlyMurly
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3/19/2008 2:45:12 PM
All I can say is that I've believed campaign promises in the past.
I've heard the same old tired speeches and believed in them.
In the end, I ignore party affiliations and vote for the one I feel will do the best job. And I'm usually wrong, so if anyone wants to know who to vote for - just follow me to the polls. : )
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The Man With No Band
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3/19/2008 2:57:37 PM
I don't listen to campaign promises because they are never truthful "READ MY LIPS" ... Ha !!!!! ... but I do listen to the speaker and what he has to say ... Obama speaks about good things ... Hillary speaks about what the great HILLARY has done ... McCain speaks of FEAR and CRAP ... and speaks of HIS Service ...
It's about time to vote for somebody that talks about THIS country ...
... and I am changing my Feud Nomination to Holo and Larree ... :)
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Slimdog Productions
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3/19/2008 3:09:35 PM
"Broken glass and rectums"? Isn't that the beginning of a song? OH Yeah...That's, "Broken glass EVERYWHERE!!!" Mixing Larree with Grandmaster Flash!!! Hmmm (thinking of a new concept for a song...).
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Beth Fridinger
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3/20/2008 5:56:16 PM
Oh my goodness this has been quite the ongoing discussion
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