| | | |
Holo Lukaloa
|
3/28/2009 7:43:11 AM
I'm disappointed that Obama is scoffing at pot legalization.
People do a lot more stupid things on alcohol and think about how much money could be raised. Also think about all the assholes they would put out of business. His friend Senator Webb kept the dialogue going though, it's a really progressive idea, I think.
|
|
Jesse Adams
|
3/28/2009 4:01:44 PM
We're not ready. You'd have to have some pretty big balls to get something like that done.
I still think it's 10-20 years out, if we make it that far. :)
|
|
LyinDan
|
3/28/2009 4:08:34 PM
I don't think it's that far out.
I don't think he can afford to spend that political capital yet. Wait til the more urgent stuff is done.
|
|
Kevin White
|
3/28/2009 4:31:15 PM
I think he literally doesn't want to make a federal case out of it.
Meanwhile, the states are taking action ... largely because they don't see the social benefit to spending millions of dollars each year housing the pettiest of criminals.
There's legislation proposed in a half dozen states that will make carrying an oz or less a misdemeanor carrying a hundred or so dollar fine.
Passage will take millions of dollars of expense off the state books, and put millions more into state coffers via the fines.
In CT, a republican representative says it's insane ... everyone knows marijuana is a gateway drug.
She's such a drunk.
Kev-
|
|
jingo (what remains)
|
3/28/2009 4:38:43 PM
Has anyone seen any reliable math on this? Granted, pot would be a valuable cash crop if it were decriminalized, but how valuable? What is the proper price point for an LB, really? What are the economics here?
Let's assume two users, User A and User B.
User A is a wake and bake stoner, smokes two joints before smoking two joints and then smokes two more. This user probably needs an external supplier. It is also reasonable to assume that if this behaviour continues, User A is going to require some additional social services down the line. The price for weed needs to at least offset some of these costs. Stipulated that as it is now, nothing offsets the cost, so weed tax is at least "helpful".
User B is not such a doper. Consumption consists of casual weekend / evening toking with a few friends. In theory, this hypothetical and fictitious person could make a quarter oz last quite a while, and probably enjoy it more than dumbass A does, even though A might mock him and call him a old pussy. Screw you, A. Don't be coming around sucking up when you are "out", either.
The price point would have to be set so that we could care for A and B. If it costs too much, B will just grow in his closet or out behind the shed and no tax revenue will be had. Depending on how many Bs are out there, this could make the price too high for A, who resorts to the the black market, likely supplied by the same folks that supply it today. So what is the right price point, and how much money is there to be made?
Common sense says that if legalized, tight controls would have to be in place if the idea is for Gov to make money. I am not sure about this (at all, no sir, just guessing) but I have HEARD SOMEWHERE that a a reasonable amount of good quality pot is easily within the reach of just about any gardening enthusiast. So, unless you want to run around kicking down doors looking for untaxed homegrown it might be hard to control the market enough to make money. Taxed pot would have to be very inexpensive.
I may be wrong, if someone has numbers I would like to see them. I agree that a society that tolerates alcohol should tolerate pot - but I question the notion that it would be a revenue generating move to legalize.
|
|
never never band
|
3/28/2009 6:01:42 PM
---- Updated 3/28/2009 6:32:32 PM
If we dont grow up and legalize all drugs ..ALL drugs!! and soon, we are going to have a failed state on our southern border...
It's a national security issue.
and it's crazy!!!!
Government control through reasonable laws about access and possession are fine, and of course anybody could grow it, but it'll be different really. I notice that after prohibition you no longer had stills, because it's simply easier to go buy alcohol and not have to deal with B.A T. potentially kicking your door in for something you can go buy legally. Same with Tobacco, you don't have people growing their own. But really the issue is to stop this Drug War Madness!!!
Will it generate tax revenue?
Sure it will, GOBS of it, but thats not the most important issue, the issue is that Drug Use even when it becomes Drug Abuse is not a Legal issue, It's a Health Issue. As it is now Addicts get 10 and Molesters get bail!!
It's absolutely insane.
Legalization is the only reasonable answer, the drug war has FAILED and cost us too much in treasure and lives and incarceration, breaking up homes and creating a criminal class where thyere need not be one.
800,000 people have been tried and prosecuted for POT in the last 16 months.. 3 million people will be tried and prosecuted for Marijuana in Barack Obamas first term as president!! 3 MILLION!!!
It's a national embarrassment and it's feeding a drug supply criminal crisis in Mexico and Central America that costs more lives last year than the War in Iraq....
I co-host a radio show on New Mexicos KTAO 101.9 solar radio about legalization and we feature one of the leaders of LEAP LEAP
and other activists.. The LEAP show is a call in show the 3rd thursday of every month. Check it out.
Check us out on "Listen Up Radio" A youth focused radio program thursday nights at 7:00
KTAO SOLAR RADIO
P.
|
|
Conversation Suicide
|
3/29/2009 6:24:40 AM
Damn Never Never Band, you're doing some good stuff there.
I think decriminalization on a MAJOR scale would be the BEST start to working towards legalization of this plant.
Sorry to hear that Obama is NOT pursuing these things at this time, but he's got LOADS of other more critical stuff to do domestically....
|
|
The Man With No Band
|
3/29/2009 7:56:29 PM
Jingo ... "It is also reasonable to assume that if this behaviour continues, User A is going to require some additional social services down the line."
Not sure what social services those would be ? ... As far as I know one can NEVER smoke to much weed ....
Frater .... I agree with you ... except on two fronts ...
1. People don't have stills anymore because they are still illegal ...
2. I do grow my own tobacco ... and there are a surprising amount of people behind the scenes that do also ...
|
|
never never band
|
3/29/2009 8:36:37 PM
Yes of course stills are illegal, but that is only a deterrent now that booze is Legal! During prohibition the illegality of the Still wasn't the issue, it was "how likely is it that I will get caught". Thats the point, and growing your own tobacco is illegal too, and B.A.T.F will kick your door in if you try it and get caught..
what I'm getting at is the risk/benefit analysis of the average user of these drugs comes to the conclusion that if it's legally attainable, thats how they are going to get it. If you can get a license to grow it, then people who really want to grow it will get a license, if you can buy it at a store with an ID, people will do that long before they'll grow it themselves.
|
|
The Man With No Band
|
3/29/2009 9:30:10 PM
No .... Growing your own tobacco is PERFECTLY LEGAL !!!!!!!!!
I buy my seeds LEGALLY and can grow tobacco legally ... They still grow fields of it in the Carolina's ... and it is PERFECTLY LEGAL ....
|
|
never never band
|
3/29/2009 9:56:22 PM
I thought you meant growing it to distribute...
|
|
|
3/29/2009 10:05:01 PM
---- Updated 3/29/2009 10:05:37 PM
I favor legalizing all drugs myself.., herion, cocaine, weed.., why not? The junkies will be able to lead healthier and maybe even productive lives, women won't be forced to sell their bodies and violent crime would fall drastically too.. I'd even put the stuff in vending machines..
|
|
never never band
|
3/29/2009 10:28:24 PM
Sam, I learned something today about Tobacco growing!
thanks!
I remember a Pueblo Indian woman I know had gathered a bunch of Punche (a wild tobacco that grows here) and had it drying on her picnic table and on a tarp in the back of her house and BATF officials raided her, seized it all and scared the crap out her as they were armed..
I think I always assumed from that point on that Tobacco cultivation was completely federally controlled, I even wonder if that's what the Feds would like us to believe...
:-)
|
|
The Man With No Band
|
3/29/2009 11:26:43 PM
Yeah Frater ... I'm sure that is what the government wants us to believe ... I suspect if enough people start growing their own tobacco that "stupid" laws will get passed to stop it ...
"I favor legalizing all drugs myself.., herion, cocaine, weed.., why not? The junkies will be able to lead healthier and maybe even productive lives, women won't be forced to sell their bodies and violent crime would fall drastically too.. I'd even put the stuff in vending machines.."
Sterling ... your sarcasm shows your ignorance ... :)
How many "stupid" drug laws are on the books now ? ... They have really helped haven't they ?
Education is what would help ... not laws
|
|
|
3/29/2009 11:35:35 PM
---- Updated 3/29/2009 11:44:55 PM
Who's being sarcastic? I'm relaying what a former BATF agent who spent his entire life on the front line in the drug also believed.., the the drug war is not winnable, so the only sensible route is arresting the cash flow which is what legalization would accomplish.
The majority of murders and violent crime is directly linked to illicit drug use. Reduce the cost of addiction to a few dollars a day for addicts and those crime statistics would dissipate overnight..
|
|
never never band
|
3/29/2009 11:43:23 PM
Sterling, that's the most reasonable thing I've ever heard you say.
|
|
The Man With No Band
|
3/29/2009 11:47:15 PM
Sorry Sterling ... I had you pegged wrong ... my bad .. :)
That IS the most intelligent thing I've seen you say too ... !
Stop the flow of money ... and the "drug" problem is solved ....
|
|
SILVERWOODSTUDIO
|
3/30/2009 1:25:12 AM
"Marijuana is a plant. God put it here for us. Everyone should be able to grow pot right next to their damned tomatoes. Period."
Larree says it best----but-----
Never underestimate the power of the alcohol lobby and the forty years of demonising---that has made "normal" folks paranoid of dope????
In My country NZ the cops spend far more time and money chasing dope growers than "P" (crystal meth) manufacturers---as that is run by gangs----
|
|
Auset
|
3/30/2009 2:43:34 PM
good conversation folks!
|
|
|
3/30/2009 11:15:39 PM
---- Updated 3/30/2009 11:16:40 PM
I still don't endorse drug use at all but I know that most addicts are victims and the subculture they are forced into to support their habits is by design. Those who knowingly hook people on drugs know well in advance what that means for their future. So in saying that I'm all for measures that will remove that enevibility meaning again, making pharmaceutical grade drugs freely available so the victims will not be forced into such a depraved existence that almost always leads to an early death.
What we need to do is identify those who are most responsible for ruining so many productive lives. Here's just one example how innocent people are lured into a life of drug addiction.
http://www.canadaeast.com/wellness/article/619321
|
|
| |
�2015-16 IndieMusicPeople.com All Rights
Reserved
| |