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jivewhiteboy
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9/6/2008 8:37:47 AM
interesting thought of the day: does the strength of the republican party only have a 10-15 yr. shelf life?
Maybe I'm off base here. But, I guess the main question to ask is whether the younger generations will stay liberal or change as they get older. Have these past generations become inherently more liberal?
Once the baby boomer generation passes from life or competency (ha, sorry, had to say it) will a large part of the republican's base disappear to not be regained.
On the other hand, I think of that famous quote "If you’re not a liberal in your twenties, you don’t have a heart, if you’re not a conservative by your forties, you don’t have a brain." Do you think that still stands true or is the new generation a little more sympathetic?
Let me know how you feel. I'm sure you will.
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The Man With No Band
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9/6/2008 9:02:40 AM
I'm proud to be brainless ...
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Jeff Allen Myers
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9/6/2008 9:03:37 AM
---- Updated 9/6/2008 9:07:15 AM
There is no clear cut answer.... I am a Fiscal Conservative, social Liberal. There are things in Both Parties I Support and disdain.
As one grows older, and starts to accumulate wealth for their family for some "Taxes" become an issue. When your younger and just starting out, "taxes" are down the list.....When you have a family, sometimes your views change. I don't think it has anything to do with getting wiser or having a brain. The two party system serves a great function, it brings ideas from different perspectives. Sometimes meeting in the middle is the best thing for everyone. Sometimes it just halts progress and is ineffective. However, if either party had an unfettered power to do as they wish, I think we would be worse off. I am not a Democrat, nor Am I a Republican...I have too many issues with both.... that is just me, It's hard to reconcile the things I disagree with. I have voted Republican...I have voted Democrat. ....sometimes its just a matter if the Pros outweighing the cons...sometimes there are personal factors.
There are always a number of paths to take, and each will get you to a different destination...some will get you to the same place, with a few different stops along the way. :)
Good thread JWB
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Holo Lukaloa
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9/6/2008 9:05:08 AM
I thought you were an independent, Larree. I'm glad you finally decided to be honest.
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The Man With No Band
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9/6/2008 9:22:32 AM
I think you are right Jive .... if most "old" people would admit it ... they SELL OUT their own beliefs ... they saw it was just TOO HARD ... to make the world a better place for all ... and started to concentrate on "ME" ... and said "We'll leave it up to the younger generation to make the world a better place ... but since we failed ... we are going to join the other party and make it HARD AS HELL on them ....
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Jeff Allen Myers
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9/6/2008 9:31:41 AM
well Sam if "Me" means whats best for my Family.... so be it.
Your thoughts are very admirable.....but goods and services are scarce...Its the number one rule of economics. If I don't look after my family, no one will. The Government sure as hell can't do it. Problem is, many think they can....
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The Man With No Band
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9/6/2008 9:54:27 AM
---- Updated 9/6/2008 10:02:27 AM
Jeff .. with all due respect I know not everyone shares my point of view .... and they shouldn't ... but what I have seen in my lifetime is that the gap between the haves and the have nots is a very real thing ... and even the haves are starting to struggle ... because of the mindset of the Super haves ...
That is to say ... You and Me and your family and mine ... and what about your child's children ? ... The path that the republican party (both parties really, I'm just pointing out the worst of them) is leading this country on, is sad and genuinely pathetic ...
I think you are wrong if you think that is the way to benefit your child ... When the world is better your child will be better ... all the short term promises are worthless in the long run ....
.... and the reason I say that people sell out there beliefs when they get older can be seen easily today ....
If one goes back in time to the late sixties and early seventies ... one can see all the hope and love and commitment the younger generation had towards making the world and our country into being a better place, but they did not have the power to over-ride the greedy and all powerful establishment .....
Now ... that they are older and could actually do something about it ... they puss out and join the establishment ... it's truly mind boggling to me ....
"If you do not want things to get better, just keep on doing the same old thing"
... and I truly do not understand when people like McCain say the government can't take care of it's own people .... and then say we can take care of the world .... It's SOOOOOOO bad to support a "WELFARE MOM" or a child that has CANCER and no medical insurance... but it's great to spend 10 BILLION dollars a month on a WAR that is useless !
I am truly ashamed of my generation ....
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jivewhiteboy
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9/6/2008 10:21:51 AM
good point. one thing we can count on is that people will become a little more greedy as they get older. i don't even know if i would call it greed. it's completely understandable to want to protect yours and your family's. i don't think it's just one generation's problem. it's a whole society's problem of not feeling connected with each other. when you get older and have a career and a home and move out of the city or away from other people you tend to become disconnected by your situation. if you're not around something everyday it's hard to care. especially in an economy that's pretty cut-throat. everyone wants to live a long life, have something when they're old and know that their children are financially taken care of. that's not unreasonable.
but, i do feel the next generation will be a little more liberal. provide a little more services for the less fortunate, but i don't think it will be a massive change.
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Holo Lukaloa
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9/6/2008 10:25:23 AM
I find it difficult to believe how many lies and distortions the GOP gets away with. It's discouraging how many don't seem to be paying attention. I hope that changes but I'm actually not that hopeful because this election is more of a no-brainer than I've ever seen yet open minded people seem to be flocking to make the wrong choice.
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jivewhiteboy
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9/6/2008 10:27:00 AM
john mccain can't win this election on his own merits. only fear of obama will win the election for him.
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The Man With No Band
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9/6/2008 10:29:24 AM
---- Updated 9/6/2008 10:31:19 AM
"but, i do feel the next generation will be a little more liberal. provide a little more services for the less fortunate, but i don't think it will be a massive change."
I'm afraid you can count on it .... sadly .... Watch the films of Woodstock and Monterey and Haight -Ashberry .... Most older folks can't even look at that stuff now ... it reminds them of what failures they have become ... oh sure ... they have a car (or two or three) ... they have a house (or two or three) ... they have all the pleasantries of an easy life ... a T.V., a telephone, etc. etc. .... but if they have a conscience they also know they have a fucked-up world ... which they choose to now ignore
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jivewhiteboy
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9/6/2008 10:43:09 AM
man with no band:
my first three years in college i live in this dorm that was touted as being a "living learning center." the majority of the people who live there were budding artists, liberal students and neo-hippies. the week that many of them moved there they became vegan/vegetarians and acquired a shit-load of new beliefs. you know, they were enjoying their first sense of freedom and being surrounding by all these new ideas that their hometowns didn't provide them.
after it was all said and done, i would here about or talk to the people i knew from out "living learning" days. most of them were no longer even vegetarians and they didn't really feel strongly about the things they felt as budding intellectuals.
basically, once your no longer connected to your world of intellectualism and new ideas you have no reason to stick with it because it's basically you against the rest of your generation. you can't hang out with college students anymore. you don't want to be that guy. the rest of your generation gets their job and has their family. you no longer have power in numbers. you want to change things, but you can't do it by yourself. few people want to be martyrs. few people want to go down the hard road.
so, the "living-learning center" was my little woodstock experience.
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jivewhiteboy
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9/6/2008 10:45:41 AM
hey larree,
reminds me of that line from the godfather..."senator, we're both a part of the same hypocrisy, but don't ever think that it applies to my family."
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Holo Lukaloa
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9/6/2008 10:48:59 AM
If you really think that, Larree, you aren't paying attention. The ads and attacks on Obama by the McCain camp are disgraceful, laughable.
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The Man With No Band
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9/6/2008 10:55:17 AM
---- Updated 9/6/2008 10:55:58 AM
Very good read Jive .... I understand where you are coming from ... and I hope it didn't seem that I was insinuating that "my" generation had a collar on expressionism ...
It's very hard to now be dismissed by some of my peers that I stood beside in those days as "touting those hippie beliefs" ... and they even laugh and talk about the days where they were "naive" and "uneducated" ... it really makes me sick ... because I KNOW those people ... and I know they are just making up excuses because they let themselves down ...
All of the ideals they really believe in ... Love, Peace, Compassion, Freedom have all been given up for a sense of security ...
That security is a blind blanket smothering the very life out of them ... and they know it ... deep down ..
Peace
Sam
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jivewhiteboy
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9/6/2008 11:01:59 AM
no, your generation definitely had the more opportunity to make bigger, more institutional changes, not necessarily because of yourselves, but because changes were happening in the country that were beyond yourselves.
but, you have to agree that even though it seemed like your generations movement was bigger at the time than it really was. the majority of the country still lived rural, small town lives. my parents for instance were nowhere even around that world. the hippie movement or whatever you wanted to call it was still a relatively small portion of the generations population. but, much larger than any movement that exists today.
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The Man With No Band
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9/6/2008 11:16:29 AM
I do agree to a point ... but it was very large ... I came from a backwater farming community in KANSAS of all places ... and the hippie movement truly thrived there ...
When you talk about Haight- Ashberry and places like that ... they were filled with people from all over ... and a lot of rural kids joined in ... I wasn't there during the summer of love but did get a chance to go a few years later ... My sister went to Montery and moved to California during that time, but it wasn't from my family connection that I saw the movement ... it was everywhere ... I really think the numbers are actually presented smaller than they actually were ...
Many people who I personally know that were a part of that movement DENY EMPHATICALLY that they were ... I think they even make themselves believe it in certain circumstances ...
It's the ol' ... "Well yeah I smoked it but I didn't inhale" trick ... only they even take it one step farther and say they never did smoke it .... you know, they have to protect their image and family and all ....
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