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Troy Beadles
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10/6/2007 6:17:52 PM
Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water ~ Discussion Welcome!
ERIE, Pa. (AP) — An Erie cancer researcher has found a way to burn salt water, a novel invention that is being touted by one chemist as the "most remarkable" water science discovery in a century.
John Kanzius happened upon the discovery accidentally when he tried to desalinate seawater with a radio-frequency generator he developed to treat cancer. He discovered that as long as the salt water was exposed to the radio frequencies, it would burn.
The discovery has scientists excited by the prospect of using salt water, the most abundant resource on earth, as a fuel.
Rustum Roy, a Penn State University chemist, has held demonstrations at his State College lab to confirm his own observations.
The radio frequencies act to weaken the bonds between the elements that make up salt water, releasing the hydrogen, Roy said. Once ignited, the hydrogen will burn as long as it is exposed to the frequencies, he said.
The discovery is "the most remarkable in water science in 100 years," Roy said.
"This is the most abundant element in the world. It is everywhere," Roy said. "Seeing it burn gives me the chills."
Roy will meet this week with officials from the Department of Energy and the Department of Defense to try to obtain research funding.
The scientists want to find out whether the energy output from the burning hydrogen — which reached a heat of more than 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit — would be enough to power a car or other heavy machinery.
"We will get our ideas together and check this out and see where it leads," Roy said. "The potential is huge."
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Pulse Eternal
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10/6/2007 6:25:29 PM
---- Updated 10/6/2007 6:25:29 PM
This is some pretty exciting news Troy. Hydrogen is a MUCH better fuel to power current internal combustion engines with.
As I mentioned previously, I had my car running on hydrogen and oxygen separated from water for a couple of years. It ran considerably better on hydrogen than it did on petrol.
On regular petrol, it was doing 14.5 second quarter miles and on hydrogen, it was doind sub 14 seconds!
I am really curious to know what frequencies (KHz, MHz or GHz), RF power outputs and directional properties this RF transmitter has. I suspect it may be tricky to get exact details at this stage.
I really hope this scientist does NOT go down the path of patenting this technology. Patents are an oppression of the sharing of vital energy solutions in my opinion. This is the kind of information that needs to be freely available and shared with others.
SuperPuss
 
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Troy Beadles
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10/6/2007 6:35:38 PM
It will have it's pro's and con's if succesful as a fuel alternative. There will be Global Disputes over how much water is to be used and by who takes the most advantage will be critized. This in fact could lead to balancing the water issues of the Arctic Ice Cap Melting and rising tides in the Future is everything is properly managed. It will have to be a United Nations issue because it could also lead to future conflict of patents and Governments. The who's water is who's issue and bigger beaches are also to be thought bought years and years ahead of time. If the whole World starts to use this technology, proper research and timelines must be accurate.
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Pulse Eternal
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10/6/2007 6:35:56 PM
I do have one question about this research though. I'd like to know if the energy required to keep the water burning would be greater than the energy potential of the burning hydrogen (and oxygen too I assume).
That is the number one problem with most electrolysis techniques.
Stanley Meyer had a solution for this which was undergoing patents (I hate patents) when he was 'mysteriously' murdered. I have some of the documents he made in PDF format and it is this information that inspired my own hydrogen research.
SuperPuss
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Troy Beadles
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10/6/2007 6:40:19 PM
Well the Radio Frequencies surely could be Produced through powerful batteries such as Hybrid Vehicles are using now and if not I'm sure designers can adjust a few cubic inches for the right size to accomidate the power source needed. They say the heat from the fire reaches 3,000 degrees? That's pretty damn hot.
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Pulse Eternal
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10/6/2007 6:40:20 PM
HERE's a thread I created about my hydrogen reactor experiments (and the Stanley Meyer PDF documents to go with it) on my forum. :-)
SuperPuss
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Troy Beadles
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10/6/2007 6:43:03 PM
Awesome! Great Read! Smart Woman! :)
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Troy Beadles
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10/6/2007 6:43:03 PM
Awesome! Great Read! Smart Woman! :)
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Pulse Eternal
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10/6/2007 6:44:08 PM
"Well the Radio Frequencies surely could be Produced through powerful batteries such as Hybrid Vehicles are using now...."
Therein lies the problem. The energy required to 'burn' the water could probably be more efficiently utilised in directly powering an electric motor in a vehicle much like the Tesla Roadster
SuperPuss
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Troy Beadles
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10/6/2007 6:49:37 PM
Indeed, awesome vehicle the Tesla Roadster! The research will determine more than just road vehicles but as I'm sure you know can be utilized for an endless opportunity for all power sources, even Major Cities Home Electric Problems such as California's Energy Problems. This technology could be used for all Major & Minor Commercial, Industrial and Residential Alternative solutions.
I think if this pans out, people will move land for this technology!
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Pulse Eternal
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10/6/2007 6:55:49 PM
Possibly but only if the source of the energy supply is viable. The actual burning of water itself is not an energy source, it is an energy conversion.
Even in the water splitting experiments I did with my car, the hydrogen and oxygen produced was simply the product of transferring another energy source through the water. I believe the real breakthrough will come when somebody figures out what zero point energy is and where it comes from.
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Troy Beadles
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10/6/2007 7:03:37 PM
The energy source once fired up from the burning hydrogen could possibly recycle the power source energy as a constant burn source? You use a battery for sparking the radio freqs and transfer the fuel source through a system to keep reenergizing is what I mean. So like turning a key or pushing a start button and then a cut off and a let go of the constant energy.
Is this pliable?
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Troy Beadles
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10/6/2007 7:03:37 PM
The energy source once fired up from the burning hydrogen could possibly recycle the power source energy as a constant burn source? You use a battery for sparking the radio freqs and transfer the fuel source through a system to keep reenergizing is what I mean. So like turning a key or pushing a start button and then a cut off and a let go of the constant energy.
Is this pliable?
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Pulse Eternal
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10/6/2007 7:07:18 PM
That would be perpetual motion, Troy!
That is what I thought was happening with my experiments but I know that is impossible which lead me to look into zero point energy as a possible source of the constant and increasing potential across my hydrogen reactor.
As I mentioned in my thread on my forum, I have no idea what zero point energy is or where it comes from but I would love to get more into that some day and try and figure it out...... however, that would be much like discovering E=mc2!!
SuperPuss
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Troy Beadles
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10/6/2007 7:12:38 PM
Well the theory is like a spark plug! Turn key, fuel injection, burn the spark is no longer needed = Perpetual Motion. The car runs until out of fuel source but in this case we never run out of salt water.
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Pulse Eternal
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10/6/2007 7:15:10 PM
Even if you could achieve 100 percent efficiency with the conversions to and from electrical to RF to heat and back, as soon as you took a tap from that source to power something else, your efficiency would drop by the percentage of the tapped supply and your reaction would collapse.
What is needed is a renewable energy source to be used for powering the RF generator. Then, the apparatus would simply be an energy conversion device providing heat as the energy supply.
SuperPuss
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Troy Beadles
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10/6/2007 7:19:51 PM
Mirco Chips Keep Getting Smaller & More Powerful! :)
I see your very good points but I think it will become available through intense discussion, debate and proper developed research. Even if the percentages drop, if equal to or more than is equated to adjust to the losses, the need power supply will reflect a stable efficiency need to generate.
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Pulse Eternal
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10/6/2007 7:28:37 PM
Stanley Meyer was working on this very thing. He had devised a method of splitting water very efficiently and very quickly using a modulated energy field. His apparatus produced FAR more hydrogen and oxygen from the splitting of water than any traditional electrolysis approach had at that point.
His apparatus was effective at powering a vehicle with a standard internal combustion engine with modified intake, injection and ignition systems. This approach makes it practical to run such a vehicle from a bank of batteries and a container of water.
This is NOT a perpetual motion device but it IS an efficient and practical method of utilising electrical energy to poewr an internal combustion engine.
What I am particularly curious about is whether this new RF water splitting technique is as efficient as the device Stanley Meyer created. THAT would be where the breakthrough would be.
SuperPuss
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Troy Beadles
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10/6/2007 7:36:21 PM
Indeed, I'm curious aswell to the findings of this new possible change the entire World could benefit from. I'm anxiously awaiting further news and I'm sure there are the some of the greatest minds on Earth working on it right now.. Thanks for the discussion SP. I was thoroughly intrigued and motivated. Thanks for your insight and knowledge and I look forward to future discussions. Thanks for being a friend.
Troy B.
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Pulse Eternal
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10/6/2007 7:45:13 PM
I couldn't agree more Troy! I look forward to finding out more about this too and maybe even combining some of what I have learned already about modulated energy fields and water splitting.
Perhaps the combination of an RF carrier wave modulated by the Stanley Meyer fields and some of my own experiments could lead to some interesting findings!!!
At least it could lead to the generation of copious amounts of hydrogen so I can have fun imploding shopping bags filled with the gas! I might even record some of these and use them in a song!!!
SuperPuss
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Troy Beadles
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10/6/2007 7:49:02 PM
LOL! What shall we talk about next? We only get two blogs a day now! Something interesting and easy.
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LyinDan
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10/7/2007 12:09:40 AM
Hey, SP, if you haven't found it already, here's the patent stuff on Kanzius' process:
http://v3.espacenet.com/origdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=WO2007027620&QPN=WO2007027620
I had some more links but they're on my office comp (yes...I screw off with this kinda stuff when I should be working).
This story broke this spring. There are some good videos of Kanzius' machine on YouTube, and some good discussions of it in the comments to those videos.
I thought about messing around with this myself, but I don't have the time. I would, of course, if it looked obviously promising. But the breakeven point, is as you say, the concern here (although, it's promising as an efficient way of splitting H2O, if nothing else).
What IS interesting is that Kanzius, before he clammed up a little while back, claimed to have made the process a positive energy-producing one. Of course, if you investigate the guy, he's no theoretical genius, just an innovative experimenter, so he may no know what he's talking about. Energy, of course, is not produced from nothing, so there must be a conversion happening if it's so. Not impossible, I think, for someone to stumble on a means to convert mass to energy on a molecular level without fission/fusion, but not real likely either. But, it's a wonderful world, so who knows?
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Pulse Eternal
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10/7/2007 9:47:53 AM
Hmmm... interesting stuff Dan.
The device John Kanzius has shown in his patent and his video clips on Youtube is actually very close to what I had envisaged in my post above. The difference with the device I am contemplating is in the modulation of the RF carrier waves. I need to do some more research but from what I can gather, John's device doesn't appear to use any modulation.
Once again though, the power input to produce the flame in this experiment is extremely high in comparison to the thermal energy delivered by the burning hydrogen and oxygen.
Stanley Meyer's breakthrough was in the pulsed signal used for the process. Also, the device Stanley had created used a diploe device with plates either side of the water, very similar to the patent description of John's device. The main difference being the Meyer device used active plates on both sides with an alternating pulse train rather than a transmission and reception system as in the Kanzius model.
Another thing to consider with the salt water model is that it will produce hydrogen and chlorine gas and soduim hyroxide (bleach). These substances are corrosive and poisonous. Water can be split efficiently without the need for NaCl to be added which is the whole point of the Meyer model.
SuperPuss
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