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JOANPi
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3/17/2008 8:39:48 AM
what do you think of free give away albums for indies?
*Hope this topic hasn't been posted before ,if is sorry I didn't notice but lets do the conversation :)*
After Radiohead (well they made a buzz about) , now NIN give away some songs of their album for free & more are to follow this path as it is rumoured.
what do you think of free give away albums for indies artists like us?
I mean do you think for example:
a) it works as many listeners will listen your music & learn about you?
b) it is not gonna work for new artists for financial reasons?
as in past years lots new bands were giving away for free songs & /or albums for limited time or not (inlcuding myself), now we see more famous bands to follow that way & give it another buzz about.
It helps indies to get new audience that maybe some of them will buy the songs in the end or it supports the motto of many listeners of last generation & so 'only downloading music for free?'
no offence & no judgement for anyone, just talking about. what do you think?
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Davide Swarup
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3/17/2008 10:43:11 AM
Humm...
I'am a street musician and to sell my Cd help me to live instead going to work in a factory and no time to play music, in the summer at least!
I think that if I was rich as RadioHead I will have no problem to give it for free!
In my case I give three song for free and some people buy the Cd (support to the artist) some of them copy the Cd (free promotion) and some they just listen to it in the streaming and spread the voice!I think is good for the independent artist to have a reasonable price and no like 22 euro in Italy for a "out now" Cd...and no much to the artist!
So my final thought is to sell the Cd for reasonable price, I sell the digipack Cd for 12 euro and download for 10...and some will buy it and some will copy it!
Anyway it will be good together!
Ciao!!!!!!
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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3/17/2008 1:38:07 PM
we have 2 sites where we sell MP3s iacmusic.com & cruxy.com
------ and 2 sites where we give them away free------guess which gets the most downloads?
ezfolk.com----free!!!
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Kevin White
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3/17/2008 1:46:42 PM
Everything on the internet is supposed to be free, isn't it?
(Please note sarcasm dripping from comment)
Kev-
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satch
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3/17/2008 1:54:24 PM
It's such a huge topic this one... but for us, basically, when they start giving food away for free in the shops, and when our landlord says that the rent on our house has been reduced to zero, then we will gladly give away our music!
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JOANPi
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3/19/2008 12:25:10 PM
who said that lol?
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JOANPi
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3/19/2008 12:26:24 PM
^ thats for Kev,
I get your point satch ;)
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Jo Ellen
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3/19/2008 12:59:08 PM
Have you arrived when someone will actually pay to hear you croon, or when you believe enough in what you have to say that you want to share it with anyone willing to listen? I believe the answer is "arrived where?" (lol).
I would gladly give away tunes, after you fill out my questionaire....(ok joking again)
Who wants an album? (anyone, anyone?)
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Chris Hance
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3/19/2008 1:06:39 PM
I think that one should do what one wants, there are prolly no two of us have exactly the same view.
But everyone knows someone in a band and an increasingly saturated entertainment enviroment I think that everyone has to offer some form of freebie in order to help circulate and attract potential listeners, or empathisers to ones cause.
So there is "greedy marketeering, by ie the seven heaven, sony etc", and there is "fair trade, ie what indies hopefully wish to achieve", sales and circulation on any level is worth it if you can break even, and then see profit, but I think that it's such a hard sell, that maybe the focus should be on other ways of profit, like playing out if you can find, but thats also a saturated medium, and sometimes you can get drawn in to playing clubby covers stuff for bux, I did it too,
It doesn't help ones cause either when people come over from other sites, and post that there is "nothing worth downloading" on an artists blog though,
Lucky here we can delete such triteness, ha ha.
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Ben Elliot
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3/19/2008 2:04:24 PM
This is a really tough topic that Ive thought about heaps. Ive kindof broken it down into a few options, each of which have their pros and cons...
Firstly, you can use sites such as IAC to sell your music at iTunes prices. Its pretty cool to have the whole package available for people, you can spend time on artwork and getting the songs in the right order. When Ive done this Ive felt really proud of having an end product that look professional. It means that once I have 6 or 7 songs that Im really happy with I can promote them as a group, then draw a line under them and move on. The draw backs are that people never want to pay out for something they are not familiar with and if they can only listen to your music when they are on a specific website, youre gonna have to really appeal to them for them to make the effort to come back and listen over and over again.
Of coarse you can give your mp3s away free. People will download anything if its free. You can be sure it will end up on someones iTunes player, then without them even realising youll be on thier iPod. Its much easier for people to inadvertanly spread your music without you having to lift a finger.My only tip would be that if you you shouldnt over do the amount of stuff you make available for download. Save some stuff for online only. Give people a reason to visit your site again otherwise they may download your stuff and never return. Another reason is that I have been on websites and downloaded the band or artist full repetoire, but Ive never been bothered to sift through the average stuff to get to them gems, and end up never listening to any of it. Get 5 or 6 songs you think are awesome, whoever downloads it is far more likely to pass on your music to friends if they can impress them with a couple of killer tracks.
I think the major disadvantage of giving your music away is you cant track how many times your songs are being listened to and which ones are most popular. With Iac you can see exactly how many times each song has been played and where they have listened to it. At this early stage in our musical careers I think it is imperative to focus on who your best audience is and work to promote your music directly to them. With no idea who is listening to you, it makes it pretty hard.
There are a few ways around this, firstly, sell your music on IAC, but make it stupidly cheap. Youll then get the best of both worlds but maybe not to the same levels. Secondly, if you have a snazzy website or use something like Wordpress to control your website, you can only allow registered members access to certain areas of your site, you can also track how many times each file has been downloaded. This way you know exactly who has access to your downloads and when they register you can ask any questions you like to determine what type of people listen to your music. Its also a great way to start a mailing list where you know all the recipients actually are interested.
Oh dear, I seem to have babbled on for ages... again, sorry.
Ben
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Ben Elliot
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3/20/2008 5:50:35 PM
I feel my previous post may have put people off responding to this topic. Id like to urge people keep this post going as it is a very interesting topic, and ignore the rant above.
Ben
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LyinDan
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3/20/2008 6:09:33 PM
Giving all your content for free does not boost your sales, if sales is what you want, haha. Having your best output for free does not make people buy the rest of your product (well...only a miniscule #, practically speaking, will).
Radiohead did NOT give their stuff away for free, they gave it for what people were willing to pay - and they profited from that.
I think I'd retain your best stuff with only samples of it online, and some second tier for free. OK, maybe one great tune, if you've got some.
The landscape for music sales may get greener sooner or later, you never know.
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The Man With No Band
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3/20/2008 6:15:45 PM
I feel my previous post may have put people off responding to this topic. Id like to urge people keep this post going as it is a very interesting topic, and ignore the rant above.
Ben ... I don't think that is the case at all .... I for one, enjoyed your "rant" ....
This is a good topic too ....
I'm not sure how I feel about it .... I don't like seeing people not get payed for their work ... but it sadly kind of goes with the territory of being an artist ... Most artist in any area, never get there full due in my opinion ...
but I also think giving away music ... to a limited extent ... can be very beneficial to an artist ... I know a wood sculptor who gave his work away for ten years ... and did it ever pay off ... He is now widely sought after and he has to turn work away ... he has set his prices very high and now he makes a tremendous living at it ...
..getting his stuff out there and recognized was well worth ten years of free labor ...
It's true that music and woodcarving are two different areas, but there are thousands of woodcarvers out there too ... many would never give anything away ...
I guess it depends on whether one wants "instant" cash, or whether one is willing to forgo the "instant" for the long term benefits ...
Everyone is different, but I would choose to give my music away now ... After all it is not giving it away at all IMO ... It is a tool for advertising purposes ... What's better ... selling a few Albums now to a limited audience or getting an established fan base that might buy many albums ?
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HunkaFunk
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3/20/2008 6:21:41 PM
I had read somewhere, that when Dave Matthews got started, he would give away cassettes at his shows. The people at the shows would obviously make copies, and share with thier friends. As the tour would progress, when the band got to towns toward the end, people would sing along with the tunes, because they already knew them (from the free cassettes). Doesn't the best Art start out free, anyway? What can it hurt to give it away for awhile? They give away food product samples at grocery stores, hoping that people will then buy it, and they do. And, at least initially, giving away Songs is a good way to gauge how marketable they are, I mean, let's face it, if you can't give it away, you damn sure can't charge for it. But then, on the other side of the coin, people tend to value things by the asking price. For instance, if you play gigs for free (unless it's for a benefit), people tend to think you suck, and are desperate to play, but then, they'll gripe about a cover, and still pay it, and tell everyone how great the band was, because only stupid people pay to see sucky bands. So, give away your mp3s, but charge like hell for those live gigs, no matter how "few and far between". At least that's the idea, I think.
Love and infinite Peace,
HunkaFunk
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LyinDan
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3/20/2008 6:32:18 PM
The problem with giving away music on the internet for free is that there is just such an extreme glut of it. And it's so very easy to get free music, so very hard (comparatively) to buy it (two clicks, whoa, baby, that's too hard).
Free CAN work as an enticement, but only for the very best, to any real extent. I think it should work well for such as Fuji Minx, for instance. I do think you have to be EXCELLENT -consistently - to produce any sales from such, though.
It can work well as an enticement to go to live shows, alright - but that's not the same thing as directly boosting music sales.
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srm
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3/21/2008 2:00:15 AM
One solution could be that, if you want to give free mp3's for distribution and 'spreading the word', they could be at a 'lesser quality' kb rate. Still listenable, but perhaps an inducement to buy a CD or a CD quality download. Just a thought.
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satch
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3/21/2008 2:24:26 AM
I guess the real answer is that there is no answer - on the surface, we're all different and our music and musical objectives are all different. But is there any among us who can honestly say that they would NOT like to earn a living from making music?
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srm
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3/21/2008 2:31:58 AM
Absolutely right. If I could arrange it, I would prefer to earn enough from my 'creative pursuits' so that I didn't have to work a 'straight' job. However, as I've done for the last thirty years, I would continue to make music and play even if I had no 'product'.
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JOANPi
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3/24/2008 8:51:25 AM
ok so does anyone of us as indies believe we can change the marketplace so people to stop download illegally?
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FUJI MINX
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3/24/2008 9:34:14 AM
I think it all depends on your marketing strategy. We have chosen to Not give away our album for free and sell a fair amount. It helps pay for us to practice, make music videos, etc. Our friends, The Bastard Fairies are giving away their album for Free and have reached thousands of listeners around the world. They however recorded their whole album a week or two and spent no money promoting it and their label paid for the duplication of the albums. We spent a year and a half working on the recording of the album and pay for everything so we could not bear to give away the album for free. AT least not at this point. If we start making some profits from concert or other merchandise, then there may come a point where the album giveaway (or like Pennywise is doing right now on myspace, givinga free download of the album if you sign up for their mailing list for 1 week only) may be a good move.
Now giveaways or friend to friend sharing is great. We an indies MUST stop these website that are stealing our music and selling it for their own proft. I believe if we ban together as Indies and get the big boyslike U2, Beyonce, The Foo Fighters, The Kayne Wests, etc to start doing something then we can all save our music. What's the point of even copyrighting your songs if some guy can start a website and steal your songs and sell them and make money. Just like the writters strike, we must start trying to influence the people who ave power to make a difference. We have no union, so we must act like one. That's my 10 cents!
-Greta
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LyinDan
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3/24/2008 10:30:55 AM
That's right!
Just say, "FU!"
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3/24/2008 10:35:06 AM
haha
FU
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satch
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3/24/2008 10:58:36 AM
Unfortunately Greta, I do not think that even being a part of a union would help us in these times... I don't want to sound like I'm off on my high horse again, but one of the major problems with the union scenario is the undeniable fact that the proliferation of music production capabilities has lowered the quality bar in favour of the quantity bar.
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FUJI MINX
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3/24/2008 5:23:23 PM
I agree with that also Satch!
Haha Larree's the best!!!!!!!! Larree for president!
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HunkaFunk
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3/25/2008 7:15:15 PM
Yeah! What Larree said! I agree. I also am 50, and have played in ass busting bands since I was 17. The endless rehearsals, so you can sound just like the record, the fucked up gigs playing your ass off to a bunch of drunks, who really would rather watch sports on the big screen, dragging equipment here, there, everywhere, upstairs, downstairs, through the kitchen.. on, and on. But I will do it until the day I drop. Right now, I don't even have a Band, so I'm recording my ideas before I forget them, but for who? who's gonna listen to them, Love them, hate them, be indifferent to them, whatever. Art NEEDS an audience. My recordings aren't as good as Fuji Minx, and probably most of the Music on this site, and I know it, but they're the best I can do, with what I've got. I had to move away from the Band I had for 10 years, because my Wife, and lead Singer Michele needed chemotherapy, and it wasn't available. So I compiled recordings we have done over the last 10 years, some new, and lofi, some done at a world class recording Studio, that cost thousands. But I have no following, no gigs to play, no one to buy my cds. I am a nobody, but I have all these fucking recordings, that I believe have some listening value, but maybe not much current marketabilty value. So in order for me to promote my Music, I have to give it away for awhile, and see if anyone even wants it for free. My Musical genre choices are varied, but not "popular" in the current market, but I write what I like, and try to find other folks like me, for an audience. Without some kind of momentum, and publicity, the hopes of selling my Music right now are grim, at best. But, if you'll listen to my Music, then I 'll give it to you. Better, that than you passing by my Tunes, because you've never heard of me, and probably never will, and the $ part, forget it.. But hey, now you have. I don't really know, I lack knowledge of the selling of intellectual property, and copyright law, and all that, But I can play the Guitar, and Bass, and Love to write Music...oh well.
Love and infinite Peace,
T.J. Franklin
HunkaFunk
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Susan Raven
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3/26/2008 3:03:32 AM
You make good points Gremislav - whenever we gig we sell piles of our CD's... haven't made any t-shirts yet though :)
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