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Stegor
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1/1/2009 1:47:32 PM
Does your own musical skill detract from your enjoyment of others' music?
I've often wondered about this. I've read interviews with more than one upper shelf musical "hero" where they've stated that they no longer listen to other peoples' music because they are no longer able to appreciate it. I don't think they came out and said it, but the impression I got was that they felt they can do better.
My own experience: I've lost my ability to appreciate other peoples' music to some extent, but I think it's a matter of being jaded. It's getting harder and harder to impress me, but not because I can play better than them, in fact I'm someone that "real musicians" might consider a hack. But I do often listen to music and think "Why do people like this? It's sooooo boring. Our music is way more enjoyable."
Do you find yourself listening to a musician's technique, and comparing it to your own? Do you ever say to yourself "That's so easy" or "This guy's a hack" ? Does it detract from your enjoyment?
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The Man With No Band
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1/1/2009 2:25:23 PM
No Way !!! ... I guess it depends on how one looks at music ... ?
Does one play and listen to music for the technical side ? Does one play music to be good ? .... or does one play and listen to music for the enjoyment ?
I guess if one wants to make a "job" out of it then that is their business ... To me it's Art ... You can't judge your Art against someone elses, well you can if you are on some kind of ego trip I guess ... but I'll never understand that view point ... that's why it's called Art ... It's there to enjoy ...
If you just listen to other peoples music, with the attitude that there has to be something there for you, I also think you are missing out on the pure joy of Art ...
If you put a standard on it, then you are doing exactly what corporate radio has done to the air-waves ... they don't play music ... they play something that could be made on any assembly line ... by robots
... anyway that's my 2 cents worth Stegor ... I hope it was at least worth a penny ... :)
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Duane Flock
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1/1/2009 3:36:11 PM
One of the reasons I like to listen to other peoples music is for learning and experimentation. I don't steal ideas because that's just not right, plus I like being different than most people.
If a chord progression sounds really cool, I'll change it around slightly then add my own touches as well as rhythms, ect. I prefer to call it "Tweeking".
I did that with Ode To Stegor. I took a basic progression and changed one chord and the timing. Your comments about yourself inspired the lyrics and it just kinda fell into place. (PM me your address and I'll send you a copy of the master.)
I do get enjoyment out of listening to all kinds of peoples songs too.
Peace,
D.
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Hop On Pop
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1/1/2009 5:57:37 PM
I listen to music to be moved.
And, music does move me. So, no I have not lost that ability in the least.
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Bob Elliott
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1/1/2009 9:11:50 PM
Skill? Musical skills...?
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1/1/2009 11:13:47 PM
I think there are players, producers, writers, and listeners and very few people can combine these leanings.
I'm a bad listener, even if I find a song that holds my attention I don't tend to re-visit it regularly. I categorise my listening into 'moods' mostly and if I'm in a Jazz mood then I'm less tollerant to more experimental styles.
I enjoyed Bat Lenny compositions, not for their musical standards (although they are quality productions mostly) but because they went to places I wanted to go...in effect they were songs I would like to have been involved with.
I am quite swingeing (not a miss-spell of swinging btw) when it comes to listening capacity - a song must pass the Jilly boredom test and as soon as it gets into a rut or resorts to a paradigm I get mad with it. Having said that, there are occasions when I am in a mood where I just need pleasant sound and even familiar chords, however I am not so much listening then as consuming through some other channel.
Then I have a need at times to hear something really bad, some hard ass Punk, all spit and blood. Occasionally I'm drawn to naive music and weak vocals and my trigger for listening then is a mix of sympathy and increduality.
After all is said and done however I rarely go the whole way through any song which is a) a shame, because some have great endings and surprises that develop....and b) disrespectful, because I really want people to hear ALL of my music and I design it to be constantly stimulating haha
Hope this helps - Nice to see your resolution is to be an active Pipeliner again Steg. ;)
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Stegor
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1/2/2009 6:55:15 AM
---- Updated 1/2/2009 7:50:11 AM
Interesting responses!
A few clarifications: I don't mean to sound like I think our music is better than everyone else's - far from it. I often listen to other peoples' music, both here and in the mainstream and am totally in awe. But I do find myself comparing, and it does sometimes detract from my enjoyment. I don't listen to music the same way I did when I was in the age of discovery, say ages 15 - 25, before I started making my own. I miss that feeling of excitement I used to get when I'd hear something I never heard before.
Bob - Musical skill? What do I mean by that? Whatever skill you feel you excel at, musically. It might be guitar playing, singing, producing, lyric writing, melody writing, arranging...
I consider my strongest musical skill to be coming up with musical ideas. It's pretty hard to explain that.
Larree - I recall you saying you can play rings around Clapton, maybe not in those words, but something like that. So you must compare yourself to other guitarists. If you can rise to that level of mastery and still appreciate and enjoy music made by, shall we say "amateurs" then I salute you. Personally I'd rather listen to you than Clapton, but not because you play better, I just think Clapton is boring.
Todd - I envy your musical appreciation skills.
Duane - look for a PM soon - I'm still dizzy from that song.
Jilly - We'll see how well I can keep my resolutions, but you figured me out, once again. Now excuse me while I go look up "Swingeing".
EDIT: Sam - didn't mean to skip you. You have a great attitude for appreciating music, worth much more than money.
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Hop On Pop
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1/2/2009 7:05:20 AM
The thing is, Steg, there are so many different KINDS of music, that I have a hard time comparing what I do to a lot of other folks. For instance, Beethoven's 9th Symphony: seriously, how do I compare ANYTHING that I've done to that? It it better or worse than anything than I've done? I cannot say: "Cary's Here" moves me to tears sometimes and so does "Say You Will", but (of course) so does the "Ode To Joy" movement of the 9th. It's just different.
Tom Zé? I am often enormously surprised by what he does -- by the odd things that he comes up with. But then, I've surprised myself in the same way on more than one occasion.
I take inspiration from those that I hear and find myself being inspired more often than critiquing them.
Of course, I have developed something of a producer's ear (I like to think) and do also think of what I would do differently, on occasion.
For instance, there is a former bandmate of mine who wrote a wonderful pop song. Damn near perfect... it just NEEDS a high harmony to make it perfect. But I find listening like that fun. Enjoyable.
I love music.
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The Man With No Band
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1/2/2009 9:01:37 AM
BTW Steg ... it's nice to see you scribbling on the pipeline again ...
Just like Bat Lenny songs you are always interesting and make the juices flow ....
Have a Great New Year my friend !
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1/2/2009 9:14:58 AM
For me thankfully i'm more of a listener than player.
I get so much joy out of the artists on the iac and that's where i do most of my listening.
I can take my songwriting hat off and simply enjoy others music. I think if i stopped enjoying others music then i would stop getting inspired and then stop writing.
Therfore it is all the same thing to me and i simply enjoy music.
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Bob Elliott
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1/2/2009 3:05:27 PM
As in wha me?
Musical skills?
I have a ways to go before I could claim mad skills...
But the thing that mostly affects me about whether I like music is whether it's good or not.
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Bob Elliott
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1/2/2009 3:05:27 PM
As in wha me?
Musical skills?
I have a ways to go before I could claim mad skills...
But the thing that mostly affects me about whether I like music is whether it's good or not.
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Steve Ison
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1/3/2009 3:30:54 AM
Stegor..I think becoming jaded n cynical with regard to music is the total enemy of creativity-and something to be watched against at all costs..For me creativity springs fundamentally from that childlike space of openess to the new and being in the present moment of endless possibilities.. If thats driven energetically by your personal pain in some way-all the more power to the music..
I still love and get so much joy from 60s music for instance-even tho a smug-headed producer-type could argue jadedly that they've 'heard it all before' soundwise..But the modern anal producerhead who judges everything drily on the 'sound' responds only to the surface of the music and has lost sensitivity to the spirit and creativity that energises it beneath..So they can grow weary n cynical and totally lose touch with the magic in the music......
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Bryon Tosoff
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1/3/2009 11:32:04 AM
---- Updated 1/3/2009 12:21:13 PM
Steve, your insight is so correct. I like your comment in having a childlike approach and freshness to the artistic endeavor, it is so vital and important. Inspiration and spontaneity are the key elements to staying connected to oneself and drawing from the experiences we go through yields some of the finest works. I have found that trying to build a song is sometimes futile and I struggle with that aspect but I thrive more on the spontaneous elements and go from there. But everyone is unique different and creativity will work in mysterious ways. Whether from a thought or just plunking or strumming a little chord or two and just playing around yields the greatest satisfaction . just fooling around and goofing off and noodling at the keyboard for me , it sometimes brings out a idea, then a melody springs forth.
As for the enjoyment of other artists music, I listen to probably 2-3 hours or more per day of other people's material and ensure that I grasp the lyrical-music content and or if it is an instrumental tune I listen closely enough to appreciate what the composer has done and when I can I like to do reviews of various genre of music here at IAC
I think we can learn a lot from not only listening to music of all types, but also perform other artists music This approach will make us better musicians , performers and help us to become more adept at improving our own songwriting attributes
hope this makes sense.
bryon
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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1/3/2009 12:50:16 PM
nice thread---Steg'
I am constantly surprised by the simplest things in a tune--- a moment, a lick, a phrase----a cool intro or outro---a bridge--- it all takes me on a journey!!
I don't really try to compare "skills ' per se----I think that turns it into a competition for me it has to sound like the artist owns that space for that time!!!
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Stegor
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1/4/2009 2:08:29 PM
I love those things I call musical moments, something that you wait for every time you hear the song. Sometimes it's just a single note that stands out or a lick on the bass that happens only once. Sometimes it's actually a mistake that was left in there (we do that a lot).
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