Tom O'Brien
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11/16/2025 12:07:09 AM
There was a time when, if you got to the point where you were making records, you were probably a pretty good player. These days people don't seem to require virtuosity from their music, except in jazz and classical. I don't think the audience at large knows as much about music as people once did, so they wouldn't know virtuosity if they heard it. It's all about sound these days, and less about music. Interesting sounds are easy to produce, which is why they proliferate. But, producing a beautiful sound on a cello, for instance, takes an enormous amount of practice.
Two of the main things I look for in a song are: intelligence and virtuosity. There are plenty of songs I like that didn't require virtuosity, but when it's there, I so appreciate it.
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Larree
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11/16/2025 9:02:39 PM
This is an interesting discussion topic for 2025. So I asked Grok.
Is virtuosity still a requirement in music outside of the classical and jazz realms?
Yes, virtuosity is still a requirement in many non-classical/non-jazz genres, but the definition of virtuosity and the degree to which it’s demanded have shifted dramatically compared to classical or jazz expectations. Here’s a quick breakdown by major genres in 2025:Genre
Is extreme technical virtuosity still required to be taken seriously at the top level?
Notes / Current reality
Metal (esp. tech-death, djent, progressive)
Yes, almost mandatory
Players like Tosin Abasi, Misha Mansoor, Tim Henson, or Ichika Nibe are the new standard. 8-string extended-range tapping and polyrhythmic precision are table stakes.
Shred/Neoclassical metal (Yngwie-style)
Yes, but niche
Still a cult thing; new heroes like Jason Richardson, Cole Rolland, or Sophie Lloyd keep the flame alive.
EDM / Electronic production
Yes, but it’s production virtuosity now
Being an amazing live guitarist is less important than being a wizard in Serum/ Ableton. Deadmau5, Fred again.., Skrillex-level sound design and macro-level arrangement skills are the new “shredding.”
Trap / Hip-hop (beatmaking)
Virtuosity in sampling, drum programming, and mixing
Producers like Metro Boomin, BNYX, or Southside are judged on microscopic details (808 tuning, hi-hat rolls, sample flips) the way jazz guys are judged on chord voicings.
Modern R&B / Alt-pop
Rarely
Vocal production, vibe, and songwriting trump instrumental fireworks. Think The Weeknd, SZA, or Frank Ocean—great players are in the band, but the star almost never is the virtuoso instrumentalist.
Hyperpop / PC Music / Glitchcore
Sometimes, but usually ironic or deconstructed
100 gecs, underscores, or Jane Remover reward insane technical chops, but often hide or distort them on purpose.
Guitar-driven TikTok/Instagram virtuosos
Yes, more than ever
Ichika Nibe, Mateus Asato, Tim Henson, Marcin, Sophie Lloyd, etc. have tens of millions of followers purely on jaw-dropping technique + aesthetics.
Rock / Indie / Alt
Almost never
A great song and vibe beats technical prowess 95% of the time now (boygenius, Turnstile, Wallows, etc.).
Country (mainstream)
Moderate—pedal steel, fiddle, and tele picking still matter
You don’t need to be Billy Strings, but if you can’t play credible country guitar licks live you’ll get called out.
Fingerstyle acoustic (modern)
Yes
Artists like Alexandr Misko, Mike Dawes, or Sungha Jung basically live in the “new classical” lane.
Bottom line in 2025:In genres that still revolve around live instrumental performance as a spectacle (metal, modern fingerstyle, certain corners of EDM with live guitarists), virtuosity is arguably more visible and celebrated than it was 20 years ago—largely thanks to YouTube/TikTok.
In mainstream pop, rock, hip-hop, and R&B, it has become largely optional or invisible. The average #1 song on Spotify probably has no audible “virtuoso” moments at all.
The new virtuosity is often in production, sound design, and micro-editing rather than traditional instrumental technique.
So: virtuosity never died—it just migrated. The kids who would have been conservatory prodigies in 1975 are now learning Serum patches, 8-string tapping, or 808 slide techniques instead of Paganini caprices. Different instruments, same obsession with inhuman precision.
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