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Richard Scotti
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2/4/2015 9:52:39 PM
---- Updated 3/14/2015 7:11:26 AM
Participator or spectator?
Maybe some folks who have never posted before would like to get into the act. Please don't feel that you have to have a new song to post every time you post. You can post ANYTHING that you deem interesting. We need some NEW FACES up in here with new ideas and new opinions, but I'd settle for some old friends too who haven't posted in a long time.
I love the few people who do post. Without them there would be no blogs and I'm grateful to them. But they shouldn't have to bear the full responsibility of keeping things going. There is a direct connection between the amount of interaction we have here and the viability of the site. If you want to keep the site going strong, then SPEAK UP! Share your thoughts!
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Chandra Moon
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2/5/2015 1:44:19 AM
I so agree with you - some of the people on the list are still active on Facebook where I've had some interaction with people too.
Yes it would be so good to see more people here both posting and commenting - it makes it feel so much more worthwhile when you feel you have something to say that someone is actually interested in reading it!!!
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Stoneman
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2/5/2015 1:20:53 PM
You have a great memory. Yeah, I miss all of those folks. I hope they get word of this and come back to the Pipeline! Would love to read their stuff and listen to whatever new music they have going. Come on back folks. IAC is still here!
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Steve April
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2/5/2015 2:45:55 PM
Steve Ison--a monster talent.
Anjuli--unique sensibility, miss Anjuli.
Squrly Murly (Muriel), whose song "Fly" was among my fav reasons for spending time here on IAC initially.
Ray Porter--Ray helped review songs on IAC for quite a while, and very, very talented himself, also recall his unique blue profile pix.
Well Richard, Chandra, Stoneman, I'm sure there are additional MIA.
Would your eminent selves consider starting stations here on IAC (additional stations). Seems that's a unique asset to IAC, the stations. Besides bringing hope and encouragement to indie musicians in a commercial wasteland, IAC would benefit from your point of view, a happenin' oasis.
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Chandra Moon
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2/6/2015 8:33:47 AM
I already have three stations but I am thinking of starting another kind of newcomer acoustic station.
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ison and april, our Back Pages
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2/6/2015 2:01:46 PM
Changin' gears here for a moment...
Happen to be reading a biography "Bruce" by Peter Carlin, really good stuff overall, although you know, have issues here and there lol...
Here's a review on amazon that pretty much on target with my view anyway. (i''m not a huge bruce fan, but do like him imensely lol...)
This review is from: Bruce
"Maybe it helped that I got to see him in the midst of reading his story ~ and I was lucky enough to grow up in the times and areas that are so vital in his personal history, but even if I had none of this ~ this book is no less riveting.
I don't know why I had assumed that the passion that is his music might not mirror his life but this was a tormented kid, a typical kid with a tormented parent and a tormented background who felt everyday life like an electric shock ~ a daily electric shock, Putting that to music, so personal, so poetic ~ he's Woodie Guthrie and John Steinbeck, he's a painter with words, graffiti-ing the image of my own Wonder Years. He epitomises that heady feeling of screaming down a New Jersey highway in the middle of the night. racing to catch the sunrise as it breaks the ocean shore.
I recommend this book to anyone who wants to know the ticking timebomb of a genius. He's a humble, angry man with a huge love of humanity ~ a clarity of how tough it can get to be one of the unprivileged and still hang on to your dreams.
It is obvious that Peter Carlin relished his role as biographer, readers will follow a well-laid path from Bruce's youth through very turbulent, angry times with what seems to be a requisite theft of artistic rights done to this naive poet ~ and his tenacious insistence that this path will be done Bruce's way, in Bruce's time.
He's a forgiving man, a man who believes in the goodness of people. A man who never forgets his roots and finds a common thread in every person.
It's a dark story, in the way that we all have our dark stories. It's the story of a street artist ~ akin to Banksy with music instead of paint on tenement housing walls with that undeniable image of beauty rising from the weedy, urine-stenched concrete.
Yep. I Love It."
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Richard Scotti
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2/6/2015 9:16:10 PM
---- Updated 2/7/2015 8:02:24 AM
With all due respect, I think that a book about Bruce Springsteen should have been added as a new topic. To say it's just "changing gears" is not exactly accurate. (imo)
It's more like entirely changing the course of a thread.
My first post indicates the direction of the thread that was intended.
Book promotion deserves it's own thread as a new topic.
I hope we can get back to the original topic.
Also: As Chandra mentioned, she already has stations as do I and Stoneman. I think it would be safe to assume that none of us considers ourselves "eminent" as we were referred to in a post.. We're just doing our part the best we can. We are also frequent posters here which I think is an important contribution to the overall health of the site. There are lot's of stations and there's nothing wrong with creating more stations if/when time allows but I'm searching for new ideas to jump start the site. Creating more stations is a good thing and I encourage it wholeheartedly but it's not exactly a new idea or one that would have a significant effect on getting people to come back who have apparently gone away from here, either permanently or temporarily. How would they even know about the new stations if they are not on the site?
We are all eminent. Let's show it!
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ison and april, our Back Pages
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2/7/2015 10:15:39 AM
---- Updated 2/7/2015 10:17:46 AM
Happen to be on m'ison and april page, Steve A. here.
Well, your post is very welcome, and got me thinking, in terms of MIA, aka missing in action, the title to the thread.
There are reasons why folks are MIA. A combination of factors I'd say.
However, there are so many millions of independent musicians out there, and like you, I wonder how we could reach them, and what IAC might offer them lol.
What the "Bruce" book crystallizes for me, is an archetype of the independent artist experience, especially his early years. It took him years to establish a following. Rejection follows rejection, but he keeps plugging. Columbia, his record label, almost drops him after his first 2 albums don't sell, in the range they want.
For example, Bruce takes antidepressants. Bruce talks to a therapist. Who knew?
==================================================
"We are all eminent. Let's show it!" Agreed.
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John Pippus
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2/8/2015 10:31:04 PM
a few thoughts:
1) IAC dropped the ball about two years ago. This place is a ghost town
2) the pipeline is buried in a place only the insiders can find it.
3) that said, there are 120+ views of this thread (as of now) and only six people who have commented. The internet is for lurkers.
It’s really too bad. IAC used to be one of my favourite sites for finding new music and feeling like I was part of an international community of music creators.
I don’t know of any other sites, outside of Facebook, where this community feeling, and open exchange, is being generated. IAC had it, and with strong management could maybe get it back.
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/8/2015 10:37:47 PM
John said it all.crystal clear and succinctly.without a doubt Some of us tried.many been around , put up with the bullshit, did our best .offered what we could, I know I did, way past what I should have, maybe some can resurrect it to its once glory days, because it did have something special at one time. many left after being pushed out, offended, good people, the got buggered around, got pissed off, but to put it bluntly,its kinda fucked up. thats the truth.
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Chandra Moon
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2/10/2015 8:22:00 AM
Yup - that about sums it up! One of the things that really really needs sorting is the fact that Flash player that's used here at IAC doesn't play on Apple, on phones, on tablets which is where everyone even oldies like me tend to listen and explore music such as on Soundcloud etc. Until and unless that is sorted I can't see this place progressing anyway. Never mind the charts here I can't care less but I do like play stats so you can see which tracks are more popular. However, I enjoy the camaraderie with other musicians and listening to and managing my stations is a joy. There still isn't a site like this one but unless there's a miracle it'll be a dinasaur soon.
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/10/2015 9:15:39 AM
The concept here is genius.Nothing like it. I know the station thing is what sets iacmusic apart from every single music site in the world. no one can touch it. outstanding navigation and easy to set up artists sites, build ones profile, add links, build stations. do reviews. hook up with other artists. I have done a ton of collabs over the years from artists here. there is no doubt there is still a pull I have to this place despite its past foibles and failures , bottom line its about the people. Its easy to bitch and complain, but we are not doing that. I think we are looking to solutions to bring this place up to its full potential. And the issue about players, its a valid one. I use revebnations and or soundclouds on my sites for the most part and plugging it into Facebook,. now if iacmusic designers programmers can overcome this one shortcoming, having a player that works seamlessly everywhere, then that would be the clincher. Word of mouth is a powerful way to spread the news about ones capabilties and talents. I am heavily involved in the music industry as most of you know, as a promoter and musician, teacher and word of mouth has brough me more business then ads have, but I use both, online, web presence , social media. a bit in the media. I know there have been lots of failures and issues some contributed here that "fucked" this place but good, the past is done, we cant change that, the damage is done. That all can be forgiven, but it is the rebuilding the trust and credibility pf this place that is going to suffer, right now yes its languishing, if thats how its going to be, well I guess good enough is good enough, but not for those who want better,,so yes building back the trust, and credibility well thats the hard part. And when someone makes a point of something around here, and gets scolded , that just is no way at all to handle things, as John Pippus said, it takes leadership and ti takes vision and the owners involvement and presence to let us know what is going on, And Chandras point about the players being able to used on other platforms, such as facebook would be a boon. I take my hat off to the originators of this concept, it was an achievement of overwhelming proportions, it was an exciting place to be, because the motives were pure and right, but somehow that got misdirected. And here we are years later. after a great run as the best place on earth for the artist entertain musician. to show their wares and collaborate with so many outstanding people. that in itself is amazing. can iacmusic be a powerhouse like it once was, yes I believe it can, its going to take some serious capital and upgrading to do that. who is willing to invest in such an undertaking, I cant answer that. I know one thing, i cant afford the time here anymore, just thought I leave my thoughts. cheers and all the best, I hope this place can be resurrected. good luck and take care...bryon
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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2/10/2015 3:17:32 PM
Hi All
Bryon has been one of the reasons we have kept going here with our music. I have no doubt that he has turned over every stone and whispered in ears that others do not have access to---but in the end no one listened. Bryon I applaud you for all the energy you have poured into this site!!
However the elephant in the room, is the mean spirited attitude which the management has shown to certain members whilst treating others as "teachers pets"
I would compare this to a really bad teacher with a huge chip on their shoulder running amok with either no advice from his team, or they are in his thrall.
too bad eh? what a waste!!!
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Brody Sheale
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2/10/2015 6:09:12 PM
Just saw this and I'd like to follow up. Exactly who do you think are treated as teachers pets? Elephant in the room? Mean spirited attitude. That's the first I've seen somebody discuss this here. Can you give examples so we know what we're doing wrong?
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Stoneman
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2/11/2015 8:29:26 AM
I to am grateful for all the consistent input and involvement on this site by Bryon. He has helped to keep this place going during the worst of times here. I won't dance around the issues. I will go straight for the truth. I was very disappointed when Bryon was publically reprimanded just for writing something that management apparently was offended by. Hence the mean spirited response from management towards someone that has been a valuable asset to the site. A better way handle things like that is to get up close and personal i.e. email, phone call, message?
I won't mention any names in regards to the "Teachers Pets" as I am not into negative revelations about people. I am into lifting people up, not bringing them down. But I will say what I have been saying for several years now. There is a pervasive slant towards certain people in regards to being on the "Hitline". Some people are almost always there. I can accurately predict week to week exactly which artists are going to be there. Also, there is seldom much diversity there. Most time its Rock, Pop and Country. The artists that seem to get preferential treatment are great artists. But it is puzzling to me that a site with so many artists and genres seems to be focused only on the few that are obviously personal favorites of the site. That is only a small example of the "teachers pet" syndrome here. There is more but I don't want to become the bad guy by bringing it all up. The bottom line is that the site can improve in that area.
We are all human and sometimes we may be stressed out and react to things in a negative way. Shit happens! But it only takes a small amount of humility to admit that we have made a mistake and to apologize to anyone that may have been offended. That would go a long way towards mending any angry feelings and regaining the support of key people that will help to keep this place alive until you can figure out how to make a grand resurrection from internet obscurity. You have a core group of consistent contributors to the website. Building and expanding that core would be a wise endeavor. At least that's how I see it. I have been anticipating the day when I go to log on and the site is gone. But that has not happened and I have great respect and appreciation to you for that.
Much Respect To You
Stoneman
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Slimdog Productions
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2/11/2015 9:11:11 AM
First of all, thanks to Bryon. He has gone above and beyond to keep this site alive. With the AMAZING amount of talent that is here on this forum regularly and on the site itself, I have no clue WHY this site isn't the tops in this business. I STILL TO THIS DAY, have iac as my main bandpage link on many of the sites I belong to. I remember a few years back, I was on the plane (I am a flight attendant for a major carrier) talking to someone that worked in a department for MTV and she was familiar with iac and was going back there to check out more artists. I was hoping at that time that this could be "the break" that iac could get as far as exposure for the site.
I wish that "the powers that be" here at iac would put themselves out there more because, to me, this site is the most underrated AND overlooked music site on the internet. There are SO many accomplished artists here, it befuddles me why...
I still post music here and I will always because I do love this site and the people who have contributed here for many years now and kept this site alive. To you all, thank you...
Slim
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Brody Sheale
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2/11/2015 11:11:29 AM
Stoneman, I couldn't disagree with you more about the characterization of what I wrote to Bryon a week ago as a public reprimand. I wish the blog was still there because I'd like to be able to ask you to reread it.
I was just a bit frustrated because I went out on a limb on this pipeline to tell all of you that the stats and charts are not accurate.
As for some artists getting preferential treatment on hitline, well, that's what the vetters do, they pick songs that they think are topnotch. You could make an argument I suppose that every artist should have equal access to Hitline but what we're trying to do is make choices which will help the listeners find quality songs without having to mine the site to do so.
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Stoneman
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2/11/2015 10:16:08 PM
Brody,
First you say that you would like someone to give you an example of what is being done wrong. So, I gave you one. Your reaction? Well, instead of fully considering how what you wrote to Bryon was disrespectful and possibly using that as an opportunity to amend and diffuse the situation, you simply say that you disagree with my perception of what you wrote to Bryon. By the way, I am glad that I can't re-read it because the first time I read it? It pissed me off. I don't need my peace to be disturbed like that. I prefer to concentrate on more important things like music production. But I must say that if it pissed me off I can only imagine how it must have made Bryon feel. Quite often, it is not what a person writes or says that inflames, it is how they write or say it. Maybe your intentions were different than what they appeared in your post. The way you put it was very condescending, terse, abrasive, inconsiderate and it felt like you totally missed the point by jumping on the importance or lack there of for the stats and charts. Anyone that actually thinks that the stats and charts here are accurate or even important to their music career is naïve and out of touch with reality. That is all I am going to say on that though because the issue is moot. Bryon is probably done with this site now. No need defending someone that is gone.
In regards to the "vetters" giving preferential treatment to certain artists, well thanks for at least admitting that that "IS" what you folks do. No I didn't say that every artist should have equal access to the pipeline. I was only saying that there should be more diversity there. I only said that because there is a lot more diversity of quality talent on the website. But you are right! It is YOUR site and you and the so called "vetters" are the supreme authorities in regards to talent, music, and hits on this site. It is your hitline to do whatever you want to do with it. It is very similar to commercial radio. There are thousands of songs released every month but they keep playing the same 20 or so songs/artists 24 hours a day. I would expect a site that calls itself the "Independent Artist Company" to have higher standards and do things different than commercial radio. My bad, my expectations are obviously too high. It is your website. Do it your way. I'm just another musician on it and my opinion (like Bryon's) is unworthy of your consideration.
Peace...............
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Brody Sheale
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2/12/2015 1:08:18 AM
I think your characterization about Hitline that it's the same 20 artists is not accurate. I also think it's a bit unfair to characterize me the way you are doing in the above post. If I wasn't considering your arguments I wouldn't have responded.
You said "Anyone that actually thinks the stats and charts here are accurate or even important to their music career is naive and out of touch with reality". Yet, that's what Bryon's thread was about, those who are gaming the charts. If what you said is true, why should anyone become upset over chart gaming?
Something our folks know from years of vetting artitsts, picking features and such, is that it's impossible to do it in a way that makes everyone happy.
Peace...
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Shoe City Sound
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2/12/2015 8:03:21 AM
I'm a relative new comer compared to all the people who have posted and who are mentioned in this thread. I wish I had been around longer - it seems like IAC was a more satisfying and fun experience than it even is now. Richard originally started this as sort of an invitation to the artists who used to blog here, and others have responded with good ideas about the player, the site etc etc. I have to agree with Silver Wood Studio, though. I know that Rob meant mean spirited in general and wasn't targeting one person, but Brody's posts even on this thread have been sort of defensive and, well, mean spirited haha - no good suggestions for progress or even respect and thanks for the artists right here on this thread. Certainly no encouragement for artists to get back on board - which is what Richard was originally suggesting. It sort of stands out in a community like this one because everyone is always so very positive with a good sense of humor, and sincerely caring about music and the people here who create it.
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Brody Sheale
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2/12/2015 10:58:11 AM
So you think my posts were mean-spirited as well. To be honest, I think if anything I said on this thread was taken as mean-spirited, there's.. well, a sensitivity going on that I'm not accustomed to. But me being honest, I think that's really where the problem lies. I'm trying to provide honesty and I think that's not what some of you want.
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Shoe City Sound
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2/12/2015 11:09:31 AM
Oh please Brody, I'm from New York - I am completely comfortable with straight honest talk that the rest of the country sees as rude and abrasive. To say that we're being too sensitive to be honest is a little patronizing and dare I say it? mean spirited- you gotta see how funny that is, right?
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Brody Sheale
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2/12/2015 11:20:48 AM
So you say you're comfortable with what the rest of the country sees as rude and abrasive but you're still saying I've been mean-spirited on this thread. I see rude and abrasive every day on Twitter and it goes far beyond anything I've said here.
All I did was come on and ask Silverwood Studios what he was talking about and he hasn't returned since he made that post. Now there are 3 of you saying I've been mean-spirited and I don't see it by the general standard of the internet. So.. it feels like if I came on and said whatever you'd like to hear, I'd get a different reaction.
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Shoe City Sound
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2/12/2015 11:34:23 AM
Not at all .... you are seriously misunderstanding me and my intentions - I'm happy to discuss this more - PM or something ...
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Chandra Moon
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2/13/2015 6:11:09 AM
Look Brody and everyone on the management it isn't helpful this titting and tatting!
The point is that the site needs some serious updating such as players that can be used on other platforms, a more modern, diverse and up to date "look", get rid of old useless links, update the play stats (not necessarily the charts). Also more transparency about who the management is and how people can get involved and feel their suggestions are being taken seriously.
The pipeline/blogs should be on the front page even if they are moderated first to avoid any really inappropriate content or spam.
The internal messaging service needs an overhaul so that there are notifications if you have a message etc. then we could interact more easily with each other and this would encourage musical collaborations.
This is just MY little take on things and I'm sure loads of people have other suggestions. I still personally think this is potentially one of the best sites with the brilliant stations and ability for interaction with other musicians makes this site much more appealing than the completely impersonal nature of say Reverbnation, Souncloud, Mixcloud etc but at least you can listen to them when you're not just sitting at the computer.
Anyway - I think it's a shame if this thread which started so positive ends up so defensive. In their own way, people are just trying to point out that things desperately need updating so that the site survives into the future otherwise it will get left behind. Harking on about the past won't help move the site forwards either but it's no point pretending their weren't issues before.
After all - quite a lot of us have paid to be here and all we hope is that the place will keep up with the times!
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Stoneman
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2/13/2015 9:59:12 AM
I agree 100% with everything that Chandra has written here. If management would "kindly" address those points I would be very interested in reading your thoughts, plans, action items etc. But the tit for tatting is useless. It reminds me of children arguing in the school yard and pointing fingers at each other. It is obvious that you have no desire to accept any responsibility for recent issues on the blogs in regards to the attitude towards members concerns. That's fine, as I said before. It is your site and you can do whatever you want with it. I just think that it would be nice if those of us who have paid to be here were treated in a more positive way. But please, don't hone is on that one statement (as you have done with several posts here) as it is probably not worth our time to argue about it any more. Instead. please address the issues brought forth by Chandra and echoed by others in previous posts for the past few years.
Even though I concede defeat in regards to trying to find some reasonable responses from you, it is my sincere hope that a reexamination of the situation by you and your staff may bring forth a positive change from management. We, the core group of members who have consistently been active, are not your enemies. We are the ones who continue to keep this place alive through our participation and creative contributions. Maybe a concerted effort from all of us (management and artists) could bring forth a much better online experience here at IAC. Maybe not! But we won't know unless all concerned continue to put forth the effort.
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Brody Sheale
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2/14/2015 12:11:19 PM
---- Updated 2/16/2015 12:14:32 PM
Okay, taking all this into consideration, one of the co-founders who has not been involved in the site for awhile has agreed to set up a committee with active pipeline members and himself, on a separate forum off this site. He is considering heading up a relaunch though I'm told to tell you all that he's not 100% on board to commit himself to that yet. The forum is located at
http://pipeliners.prophpbb.com/forum1.html
You have to register before you post. No confirmation is needed, you can post right after you register.
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Brody Sheale
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2/16/2015 2:27:59 AM
Interesting, with all this talk about wanting to discuss things, and transparency, that none of you have registered at the pipeliners' forum yet. Shall I go ahead and tell him to shut it down?
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Chandra Moon
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2/16/2015 7:22:14 AM
Blimey Brody give us a chance - I only just saw this as it's only Monday and I don't sit all day at the computer which is the only place I can see IAC and there's no notification system that links to my phone from here! As Stoneman said we're on your side not against you, so no need to be sarcastic before we've even had a chance to see the new forum - it's hardly going to encourage people to want to join in a discussion!
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Chandra Moon
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2/16/2015 9:51:07 AM
I tried to join as soon as I saw this but despite trying twice I haven't received a confirmation email.
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Steve April
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2/16/2015 10:24:02 AM
Ditto. Does not permit registration.
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Brody Sheale
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2/16/2015 11:33:25 AM
Okay, Steve, you're good to go.
The problem has been fixed. The registration confirmations were not being sent, now they are no longer required. You might have to register again but now it will work, but Steve, yours was tested and works.
Sorry for my tone, Chandra.
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Brody Sheale
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2/16/2015 12:15:38 PM
Pipeliners Forum
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Brody Sheale
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2/19/2015 11:16:46 AM
Nah, no bad vibes, all good. :)
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Conversation Suicide
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5/25/2015 11:00:35 PM
Wow Richard.
what a thread.
umm..... anyhoo...... We're BAaaa-aaahh-K !
As "Indie Music People" this time.
That works fine for me.
Here's hopin' we can bring in YOUNG ears, and NEW TALENT,
and make this NEW (uh--re-newed) site- A Relevant and Vibrant FORCE & Source, for indie muses, and create a bit of an impact, in our shared Indie World
--==== : - }
pHLeGm
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Noah Spaceship
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5/25/2015 11:56:06 PM
yeah,phlegm, great read. haha
good times :)
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Bryon Tosoff
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6/8/2015 6:13:39 PM
things seem to be getting fixed around here, from one of the biggest agitators and people that poke people in the eye, nothing wrong with pointing out necessary needs to improve the site, and it is moving in the right direction
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