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Richard Scotti
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1/19/2016 2:13:06 AM
Most award winners don't post here
Looking over the winners list in the Kayak Awards I was dismayed that so many of them don't post here at all although a few do post, most do not. They are so talented and would be such a boost to the discussion here. What can we do to get them to join the conversation? I never knew some of them existed. Just sayin'
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Father Time
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1/19/2016 3:01:21 AM
Well, if you're up for it, you can try this.
Say there's an artist you like a lot. Start a thread about them discussing what you like about their music. Then send them an artist mail telling them there's a thread about them. That's worked, occasionally.
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Chandra Moon
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1/19/2016 4:53:06 AM
Have all the no,nieces and winners been emailed. At least that way they might realise!
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Chandra Moon
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1/19/2016 4:53:06 AM
Have all the no,nieces and winners been emailed. At least that way they might realise!
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1/19/2016 5:28:56 AM
well the nominees were, some of the emails kicked back though, they didn't have working emails.
I'm starting to get around to the winners now.
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1/19/2016 7:59:51 AM
My sister and I were talking about this today so we put together a little song about it - here's the lyrics
Some folks play and some folks post
Some folks tour from coast to coast
Some folks just don't like to boast
While others like to listen most
What a shame - we really wanna put a face to a name
Some folks sing and some are quiet
Some folks like to cause a riot
Some folks sell and some folks buy it
That's the truth, you can't deny it
What a shame
We really wanna put a face to a name
Why don't they want to join in our discussion
Maybe they is far too busy rushin' ... around
(chatter about nationalities)
Some folks talk and some folks hear
Some folks wouldn't come anywhere near
Some don't like the atmosphere
Some prefer to drink their beer
What a shame
We really wanna put a face to a name
I just uploaded the song if you want to hear us :)
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Bryon Tosoff
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1/19/2016 8:21:51 AM
lovely, really good work haha, I am off to listen you two
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1/19/2016 9:00:07 AM
I must thank all the good people who voted for me in * Best Female Artist * and * Miscellaneous * categories of the Golden Kayaks. It was a wonderful boost to know I've been noticed by my musically talented peers
In fact the whole show was very inspiring and I feel sorry for winners who might have been unaware (or even uninterested) in their success.
I know there must have been lots of our friends here on the Pipeline who were very 'near misses' both in being nominated and votes tally. But the very act of voting was a big commitment and people need to be thanked.
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The Jay Dyall Project
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1/19/2016 9:13:36 AM
---- Updated 1/19/2016 9:14:04 AM
Verity Keen, that was a great and fun song! And True!
I can already imagine someone covering that song!
Kudos to you!
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Bryon Tosoff
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1/19/2016 1:32:29 PM
There may be some valid reasons for some not posting, first some may have day jobs, two , some might be away on tour, three how about family commitments not everyone has the time available some of us do, who are either retired, semi retired, independently wealthy, or just like hanging out at other peoples places so they dont have to pay rent, maybe some dont have access to the net like we do lol
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Bryon Tosoff
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1/19/2016 1:47:09 PM
but seriously, there are a lot more people coming onboard in the last while. and that is a good sign, i think things are moving in a positive way forward with more posts by different people and more artists coming on stream and those who sometimes drop their songs off for review in the commentary review section, which is a brilliant idea since it draws in more people who might be more interested in discussing music there then posting on the pipeline, so all in all, i think we are on the right track. We continue our journey here engaging whom we can, making the discussion enlightening and informative and as well keep things on the positive side. Although what ever turns your crank, most of all lets support each other and show respect.
cheers and best wishes
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1/20/2016 8:28:28 AM
---- Updated 1/20/2016 8:29:37 AM
Accepting the Golden Kayak Award For Mistress Of Sound....
Here's American Lesley Jane.
Hi Folks.
I'm sure Vanessa wishes she could get a day pass
or something, you know, from Heaven...
apparently there's a lot of paperwork involved,
and none of us knew she was gonna win.
Well God Knows...
Doesn't mean He tells us about it all that much.
More often than not, He doesn't..
That said,
I'm sure I speak for Mistress Of Sound
(as well as myself, 'cause I'm on the record too, sang duet
with her, played the instruments, produced the record... )
when I say
Thank You Golden Kayaks,
for "O Holy Night" by Mistress Of Sound, being a Winner.
Thank you All So Very Much.
Love & Blessings To You All.
That means a lot to me,
I'm sure it means a lot to her too,
up yonder.
Much Love, God Bless,
~L
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Stoneman
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1/20/2016 9:28:55 AM
Could be that they stopped by and saw all the arguing, bickering and political crap being posted and decided to pass. I know it has certainly curtailed a lot of my involvement here. I use to love to read all of the great posts about music creation and stuff. That is my passion. Also, the humorous stuff use to be really cool. But I really get frustrated with the other stuff. So much so that I have been scarcely coming here now. I don't feel welcome here on the pipeline any more. This doesn't feel like the site I use to love. It has evolved into something else. That may or may not be a good thing for other people. Progress often brings some unwanted changes. But those changes may be necessary to grow the site. That is something I hope to see. Continued growth. Even if that means that me and people like me may be getting pushed out. I say "Let it be whatever it is going to be". I Love IMP but the Pipeline is not the same anymore. Life goes on............
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The Jay Dyall Project
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1/20/2016 10:14:01 AM
Stoneman, I agree with you 100%
But not so surprisingly, I have been chastised for speaking up.
The Pipeline doesn't seem like a forum where all are welcomed,
it is dominated by a tight little circle and apparently all who oppose or disagree
with any of them are considered to be a rebel rousing outsider.
I would love to be in discussions involving music,
but most of the discussions here are far from being about music or the craft
of songwriting and recording.
I guess it is what it is.
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Bryon Tosoff
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1/20/2016 11:53:17 AM
I have found of late it has gone to personal attacks from a few on some. stopping there , no names because we know who they are. Bluto even jumped on some posts saying enough already, and if that doesnt stop you in your tracks to shut up your pie hole then you dont know Bluto like i know Bluto,. although Bluto is a kinder Version of bluto's former self, i kinda liked the old Bluto,. but do like the Version two. cheers
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Bryon Tosoff
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1/20/2016 12:19:26 PM
jay,I disagree with your evaluation of this pipeline being a tight circle, we many of us do not berate or belittle you or other, now I notice you have a thing going with ALJ, you guys have to settle that, and not bring your dirty laundry here on the pipe, other then that, this is a great forum
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The Jay Dyall Project
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1/20/2016 12:26:18 PM
My little squabble with ALJ was civilized and relatively minor compared to several full-blown arguments with racial-slurs, cursing and name callings left and right in previous threads. Yet those were dismissed and allowed to continue while a civil disagreement about musicianship credit was lambasted. That's why I said, many are treated unfairly and as outsiders while the "inner circle" can do and say as they please. And they will be defended while I once again would be treated
like my observations and opinions don't matter.
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1/20/2016 12:26:20 PM
I disagree with the tight circle comment as well, this community is more welcoming than any other I know of.
re: Stoneman's comment. Well, it's just a fact that the more participants we have here, the more diversity we're going to get. We're never going to match the peace and tranquility that existed when there were basically only a half dozen people posting here for a long period of time. Clashes are going to happen and the fact that they do is imo a sign of a healthy forum.
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1/20/2016 12:35:50 PM
well Jay if you want to depict a discussion ABOUT racial slurs as one where you seem to indicate racial slurs were being employed, I'm not going to take this too seriously.
As we say in the pipeline rules, this forum is not even supposed to be used for site suggestions.
Also, IndieMusicPeople.com support issues, site issues and suggestions do not go on the Pipeline. For those, go to our dedicated support forum.
Then you follow up with complaining that your ideas are not being taken into consideration. This is exactly why site issues don't belong here.
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The Jay Dyall Project
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1/20/2016 12:47:21 PM
Actually, I did send in a couple of questions to the support forum, never got any replies nor does it look like anyone monitors it on a regular basis as last topic before mine was from last summer.
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1/20/2016 1:03:44 PM
well that I do take responsibility for. We just get so few posts there that it tends to slip my mind, plus we've been busy with stuff. I did answer your question though earlier today.
I want to emphasize though, to Richard and anyone starting "constructive" threads like this one. What happens with them is somebody will soon use a thread like this if they have other issues, like has happened here.
I would far rather err on the side of open communication than to have a forum where musicians can't discuss politics and can't get a little provocative at times. In my opinion, an artist handling some adversity on some topic they started is generally a positive thing. The pipeline is meant to rock, not just be kissassy. Artists should be respectful to other artists of course, but we are adults here. Site issues on the other hand turn a social environment into a support forum so please use the support forum if you have issues with the site.
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1/20/2016 1:13:12 PM
Jay the last topic in the support forum was in December, what's with the exaggerations?
Earlier you mentioned "full-blown arguments with racial-slurs" Way out there.
Don't take your hostility out on the site, please, people read your words.
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The Jay Dyall Project
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1/20/2016 1:18:02 PM
I am not exaggerating about the racial slurs and name callings, and you know it. Others can attest to that, but I am not going to rehash it here. Its in the past, it got deleted, we move on.
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1/20/2016 1:27:45 PM
If you're saying somebody used a racial slur to attack somebody else, that's utter bullshit.
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Stoneman
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1/20/2016 1:48:47 PM
Scott,
My only issue with that is the fact that it was ignored until I said something about it. Even then, I was told that management didn't think it racist that a White man would put the "N" Word in the title of his song. I was very offended by that and if I was new to this place I would have left and never came back. Yes, it eventually got taken down but I believe that if I had not of said something about it, it would still be sitting there for everyone to see because no one but me thought it was racist. Interesting that I am the only Black man on this forum. The insults and derogatory stuff being displayed here has really, really troubled me and if not for the love that I have for so many artists here, I would have left. There is also the feeling that certain people were saying certain things hoping that I would leave. It is quite obvious what political leanings tend to dominate this site. Being one of the few who think differently is very intimidating. But I ain't going no where until Y'all make me leave by deleting my page. Guess I shouldn't give ideas like that but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened. A dissenting voice is not very welcome here. Everybody gangs up on ya and says that wasn't racist or that was pretty tame compared to what used to be written here. I don't care about what you all use to do here or at MP3.com. That's great that you all enjoyed the good old days. But this is not the good old days. This is here and now. I could have retaliated but I am not the kind of person that writes or says things that I know are derogatory to other people, cultures, religions etc. But there are people here that think it is so cool to say the derogatory shit they have on their minds. You know? Saying derogatory stuff that is on your mind is considered to be so very cool these days. The first person that comes at me face to face with that shit will find out what a Vietnam flash back looks like. But people say all kinds of shit online knowing that its such a safe haven for their derogatory crap. To me, that shit is not cool at all. To me respect and consideration is very cool.
Maybe if we stopped that crap other artists would feel free to post stuff here. I'm just saying.............
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The Jay Dyall Project
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1/20/2016 2:09:47 PM
And I've just been vindicated.
Stoneman, thank you.
I too have seen what others have written that was offensive and wrong,
and when I spoke up I was escorted to the looney bin as they claimed no one said anything racist or derogatory to other people status.
Maybe this is the end of all this. Hopefully.
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1/20/2016 2:10:37 PM
Well Stoneman, if somebody had used a racial slur directed at you as an attack, they would've been banned. But what that was was a discussion of use of the word at all.
Lennon did the same, used the word in a song to try to communicate an idea.
I think if you expect our community to be free of insults, you're probably expecting too much. I'd also add that if anything, flames and such make forums more popular, not less, from what I've seen. I just don't buy that our issue here is not enough kindness and positives. It's also a fact that forums are just not the go-to milieu in social media anymore. The youth are not as inclined to be involved in forums as much as us old guys are. :)
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1/20/2016 2:19:16 PM
I'd also add that it wasn't ignored. I'd been discouraging Lesley from posting the song for several days prior to that.
I don't know how we got from the topic of why more people don't post here to the N word. Oh, yes I do, Jay threw that in there.
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Stoneman
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1/20/2016 2:29:54 PM
Scott,
It is your site to do as you please. I'm just a squirrel in the forest trying to find a nut. So, yeah, if that is what you believe. More power to you man.
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1/20/2016 2:33:10 PM
Can you be more specific ?
Which point are you referring to when you say "if that is what you believe" ?
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Richard Scotti
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1/20/2016 2:52:49 PM
---- Updated 1/20/2016 2:57:50 PM
When I started this thread I had no idea it would evolve into something else. Most of the contest winners didn't post here even before the recent controversies so I wasn't suggesting that the latest stuff that has been going on was the reason they didn't post. Maybe they're too busy writing winning songs! In any case, I was trying be constructive but I realize that we all have to think twice before we post, including me. Words do have consequences. I sincerely was not trying to stir things up. If only a dozen people or so want to post and thousands don't, I guess that's just the way it is and it's impossible to please every taste or to meet everyone's criteria of what is a good place to post or not. I give up trying to figure it out. I have other things to work on in my life. I've reached out to some artists and have even offered session work to some and it's like writing to ghosts. I get no responses. But as I mentioned, maybe these folks are just too busy to participate or to interact with other members. Perhaps I need to get too busy too. I have many new songs that need to be finished. I love this site and I always will. Do I love some of the things that transpire on the pipeline? No, I don't. I just hope that somehow things cool off.
Freedom of is great but freedom to do what? We all have to observe some kind of parameters or common sense guidelines. We have free speech but you can't yell "fire" in a crowed theatre when there's no fire because people will get hurt. And I don't want to see anyone here get hurt. I will refrain from lamenting about the lack of outside participation here and I wasn't referring to anyone in particular. I was only talking about the folks who never posted and apparently never will. However I do respect any usual poster who has stopped posting for whatever reason. I myself
get fed up at times but I always manage to try and get over it and I hope anyone who used to post and isn't posting now, will try and do the same. Sometimes a little break is a good thing because in the interim, things improve on the pipeline and the cast of characters changes. It never stays the same for long. This storm will will pass. Peace. I have new songs to finish.
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1/20/2016 3:00:53 PM
You were right to wonder about it, I know I do a lot.
But a lot of talk about how to improve the site doesn't suit what we're trying to present here, I wish there was a perfect solution. The best one I suppose is to just back out of threads where you don't like what's transpiring.
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Bryon Tosoff
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1/20/2016 3:11:54 PM
I dont think Jay was here when the N word was used. I have been here almost forever and never saw anything. Stoneman has been around a long time and I know he brought this subject up a few times so I believe him, and Stoneman said that the person who did used that term was banned, after he reported it to admin, as far as my understanding, but of late, no nothing at all, and i read every single post and thread pretty much since the pipeline was born. as has Scott. but i dont see any evidence of anyone using that offensive term of late, this has been overblown and it is old news and should be forgotten. why hash it out, there are better things to discuss and talk about.
Richard,. I like your thread, sorry it has gotten kinda hi-jacked, but it is good to have this conversation, lets move on folks, and stick to the subject matter
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Richard Scotti
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1/20/2016 5:56:31 PM
---- Updated 1/20/2016 6:53:56 PM
Yes, Scott, I was just wondering out loud. - I wasn't asking for a "perfect solution", just making observations. Expressing my personal beliefs is not the same as talking about how to "improve the site." If anything I was saying that human behavior can be improved in general. The site is made up of humans who are also not perfect and I am well aware that it is not easy to influence or even comprehend human nature. My words were not meant to criticize your performance in any way. But I've learned my lesson and will avoid wondering about site participation in posts. I don't mind if you delete this whole thread. I'm sorry if my post was misconstrued. This was a Support issue, not a Forum issue.
I didn't realize that when I made the post.I stand corrected.
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Bryon Tosoff
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1/20/2016 6:17:10 PM
no breaks allowed. boink the ones you dont like
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1/20/2016 6:39:15 PM
I know, Richard, I took no offense at all.
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Richard Scotti
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1/20/2016 6:48:41 PM
I'm glad. So when you said "you can back out of any threads where you don't like what is transpiring", can I assume that was not directed at me personally? Because I was really not complaining about what transpires in threads. That's a whole different story!!
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1/20/2016 6:53:04 PM
yes that was not about you at all.
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Richard Scotti
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1/20/2016 8:51:28 PM
Happy to hear it!
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Stoneman
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1/20/2016 10:52:47 PM
"But what that was was a discussion of use of the word at all."
Scott,
You seem to think that someone using the word the way ALJ did is okay. That is the point I am referring to. For me, any use of the word on the Pipeline is offensive. If I got you wrong, please correct me or clarify what you mean. But from what I perceive of this and previous statements, as long as the word is not directed at someone, people can use it all that they want. Whenever I join a forum there is usually a blurb from the site about the use of offensive language such as racial slurs, derogatory comments about religion etc. Then there is a box that you must check before you can join. Your take on this seems to be slanted more towards context rather than content. That is why I said it is your site to make the rules according to how you see fit. I am a nobody on the food chain and what I feel about it is irrelevant if you disagree.
Richard,
Earlier this month there was a post where ALJ referred to a new song he was writing or had written and the title had the "N" word in it. You must have missed that post before it was deleted. That is what we are talking about.
However, I do apologize to you concerning the fact that your post was hijacked by the remnants of the recent past. Unfortunately, the pot is still simmering on that one.
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1/20/2016 10:58:45 PM
No, as I've said, I think any use of the word is generally a negative, and I did say that to Lesley before he made public posts about all that. But there is also a big difference between Lennon singing Women is the ____ of the world and Lennon saying what Elvis Costello said about Ray Charles.
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1/21/2016 9:32:25 AM
Hi there, I can't come to the phone right now because I'm dead.
But here's my Husbunny to say a word or two.
~M
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1/21/2016 9:37:02 AM
Okay, you can talk about me?
I can talk about you.
Stoneman, you're a goddamned idiot.
There. I said it.
You decided what I meant, and how I meant it,
without even hearing the song.
Yes, I took the word out of the title,
and it's censored in all the places in the lyrics it is used.
But you went all Bongo Congo on my ass and you had not
even heard it. That is why, Sir, you're a damned idiot.
And I don't mind tellin' ya so. Don't like it? Lump it. Or Try.
As for the idiots who jumped on the bandwagon also chastising me,
hey, you're idiots. And idiots will do that.
And some of 'em prove their idiots by continuing to do it.
Anyone, who thinks I was in the wrong side of the equation
using the word as I did, needs to go hear the bloody song now.
"Make Me The Next" by American Lesley Jane.
Go find it or don't.
I'm not in the mood to do a fucking link.
Now it is you whom I no longer respect, Stoneman.
And see? The World Still Turns. Amazing Isn't It!
The Pipeline is A Cool Place.
And I'm a cool person.
And you're a damned idiot.
Who jumped up my ass and sang baritone not even knowing
of what you spoke.
Hear the song, then tell me how f-ed up I am. Jerk.
~L
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1/21/2016 9:38:46 AM
PS...
Lennon NEVER EVER
said about Ray Charles,
what Elvis Costello did.
Costello is a fuckin' asshole.
A talented fuckin' asshole.
But a fuckin' asshole.
~L
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Bryon Tosoff
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1/21/2016 9:41:06 AM
Lesley, come on now , can we be civil
probably not,
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1/21/2016 9:41:58 AM
What.
That IS my civil.
Come on Bryon.
You've seen my other modes just a bit yeah...
~L
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Bluto
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1/21/2016 11:32:28 AM
Lesley we get what you're saying but don't say it anymore, we can't have that kind of thing here, this is a warning. If you revisit these same feelings towards Stoneman again you'll be getting a time out.
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1/21/2016 11:44:59 AM
Bluto. Hi. Nice to see you.
I don't need to revisit my statement. I made it, it's done.
My point was, accentuation withstanding,
that his assessment of me was in fact prejudiced
since he hadn't even heard the song I was talking about.
So now the song is here... and he can hear it,
and say what he wants about me.
And then you can talk to him if you want. Or not.
I've said my piece.
I was however a bit upset, since he decided what I was about,
without having the facts at hand.
And I expressed that. And it's done.
Have a Good & Productive Day Everyone.
I hope he comes around and sees how I meant the song,
because a ton of people downloaded that song,
and I'm talkin' hundreds. Black listeners did appreciate and compliment
me on this song. This song was originally very well received.
I hope Bluto, that you will stick up for me, as well as shake the warning stick
at me, because I begin to feel as though I'm being singled out.
For being honest and outspoken.
And frankly, I think it is ludicrous for the man to come down on me,
when I am in this song sticking up for his people.
I hope I have made my point now, in calmer softer tones.
I'm American Lesley Jane and I approved this message.
Let's all just take a breath here and see each other's humanity, how about that?
~L
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Bluto
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1/21/2016 11:51:01 AM
You are being singled out because nobody is calling anybody else an idiot at the present time. You're crossing boundaries there, we don't just call each other idiots on the pipeline. Now you don't know as a fact he didn't listen to the song so you can't really go out on a limb there either because you can't prove it. But let the above be the end of it, thanks.
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