Topics
IAC Prime Member
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Stoneman
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9/6/2012 10:34:30 AM
I Would Love To See.........
I would love to see the forum become the great discussion magnate that it use to be. I use to be drawn to this area and would read all the great contributions from the community. I also enjoyed reading the reviews that musicians gave to each others music. It inspired me to listen to genres I seldom listen to and to explore the full spectrum of the talent field here at IAC. It also inspired me to write a few well deserved music reviews. Plus, I challenged myself to expand my own creative process to include an even more diverse catalog. Multiple member participation became a valuable part of my daily perusal of the site.
But now? Well there is a very small core group of people who still contribute to the forum discussions on a consistent basis. If you post a song, you may get a few reviews and they will almost always be from the same few dedicated people. Wouldn't it be nice to hear ideas, perspectives and opinions from the huge and diverse musician pool that exists here? What can we do as members and management to stimulate such a thing? I tire of seeing individuals who only show up to toot their own horn about their music/artist but never actually contribute to the forum discussions. I would love to see this change. Wouldn't you?
I would also love to see a more diverse appreciation of music from IAC. Looking at the Hitline I see a much heavier slant towards Rock, Pop, Ambiant and Indie music. Hip-Hop, R&B, Soul, Dance, Gospel, Reggae etc. seem to be treated as nonexistent and ignored by whomever is in control of highlighting music here. Now, it is human nature to prefer what you may personally like. But it is wrong to act on those preferences by ignoring other genres or neglecting to give them the opportunity to be heard or seen. With a change in this process it may stimulate a more welcoming feeling for other musicians/genres to get more involved with the website.
I would also love to see the charts comments page return. It was very cool to have the opportunity to thank listeners for streaming songs and propelling them higher up the charts. What good is it to leave those thanks in the forums if only a few people are reading and participating in them? Sure, some artists used that comment area to blatantly push their music out there. But for the most part, it was a place where humility and thanks was constantly being exhibited by artists. I am not sure why it was taken away but I would love to see it return. Wouldn’t you?
I know this post may not be popular but I think it is time that someone said something. In all things there is always an ugly gorilla in the room that no one dare to bring up out of fear of some ominous retaliation. But I will go ahead and be the one who falls on his own sword by speaking up. I know that the ramifications for doing so may be harsh or detrimental to my status here at IAC. But that's okay if it opens the door to the recognition of a more diverse musical experience at IAC. I am old and don’t matter much anymore so I’ll take the hit here.
IAC can only be as good as we all make it. This includes both management and membership. I would love to read more about the collective creative process. So many artists do IAC forum drive by's where they hit us with a self promo, a link (to some other musicians website) and a puffed up "look at me" testimonial about how great they are. Although it may be true that they are great, wouldn't it be nice if they shared how they got great so others can learn how to get there to? I know, I am probably asking for too much…..
I would love to see the “Spotlight/interviews” prompt updated (hasn’t been since 2007). The return of the “featured Artist Of The Week”. The return of the Golden Kayak Awards (gone since 2007) and an update on the “Legends of IAC” (last update in 2008). I think this would give the website a more current feel to it. I know doing all this would require more work from management but maybe some of the work could be shared by members by giving them more opportunities to get involved in the website. We have some great writers here that could contribute to the cause.
Okay, the grumpy old fart is going back to his studio now. These are just thoughts that I can no longer hold in. I promise to shut the hell up for a while. I value this site immensely. Whenever there is some technical problem and it goes off line, I miss it tremendously and always have a sigh of relief when it returns! I am committed to being a part of this great musical community. I would love to see more members making that kind of commitment and more opportunities opened up by management to gain more involvement from members. Moreover, I would love to see the site make a more consistently diverse commitment to the world class array of artists who have their music here. Am I asking too much? Well, if I am, I apologize for being so damned needy. But I once read a very wise passage from a very special book that said “You have not because you ask not”. I would love to see IAC approach these suggestions with an eye towards improvement and an openness to honest and sincere suggestions. If you look into your own mirror and see things that need to be improved, imagine what others see when they look from the outside. But I am nobody of importance here. I’m just another musician who has love for the site. It is that love that has inspired me to write about these things. I hope that you can find merit in a few things I have written here. I hope it inspires thought and action towards the betterment of the site.
Much Respect,
Stoneman
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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9/6/2012 1:42:05 PM
Hi Mate
You have expressed yourself well here, and the few peeps who read these words will probably nod their heads sagely
----but--------- 'Once bitten twice shy'
I'll crawl back under my rock now
with respect
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Shoe City Sound
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9/7/2012 9:00:12 AM
---- Updated 9/7/2012 9:34:15 AM
I guess I'm a relative new comer to IAC compared with some of the rest of you guys, so I thought this was an interesting read - put a perspective on things that I wasn't aware of ...
D
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Paul groover
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9/8/2012 3:37:23 AM
Well put Stoneman totally agree with you
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IAC Admin
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9/12/2012 12:24:01 PM
---- Updated 9/12/2012 12:27:38 PM
I would love to see the forum become the great discussion magnate that it use to be. I use to be drawn to this area and would read all the great contributions from the community. I also enjoyed reading the reviews that musicians gave to each others music. It inspired me to listen to genres I seldom listen to and to explore the full spectrum of the talent field here at IAC. It also inspired me to write a few well deserved music reviews. Plus, I challenged myself to expand my own creative process to include an even more diverse catalog. Multiple member participation became a valuable part of my daily perusal of the site.
But now? Well there is a very small core group of people who still contribute to the forum discussions on a consistent basis. If you post a song, you may get a few reviews and they will almost always be from the same few dedicated people. Wouldn't it be nice to hear ideas, perspectives and opinions from the huge and diverse musician pool that exists here? What can we do as members and management to stimulate such a thing? I tire of seeing individuals who only show up to toot their own horn about their music/artist but never actually contribute to the forum discussions. I would love to see this change. Wouldn't you?
IAC Admin: We also would love to see this forum thrive. We appreciate the members who do contribute here, and believe that our upcoming Facebook advertising campaigns, targeted at getting new members, listeners, and general likes, respectively (that's three campaigns), will add to the participation here. One thing members can do right away is begin FB Liking, and FB link sharing, those posts and comments in this forum that appeal to you and that you think would appeal to a wider audience.
I would also love to see a more diverse appreciation of music from IAC. Looking at the Hitline I see a much heavier slant towards Rock, Pop, Ambiant and Indie music. Hip-Hop, R&B, Soul, Dance, Gospel, Reggae etc. seem to be treated as nonexistent and ignored by whomever is in control of highlighting music here. Now, it is human nature to prefer what you may personally like. But it is wrong to act on those preferences by ignoring other genres or neglecting to give them the opportunity to be heard or seen. With a change in this process it may stimulate a more welcoming feeling for other musicians/genres to get more involved with the website.
IAC Admin: We generally try to highlight the best music in terms of production, performance, and songwriting, and it's possible that the people who submit music to the site simply fall more in some of the "favored" categories you mention in your post. However, great songs come from diverse genres. We believe that an infusion of new members will tend to bring in a broader representation of genres.
We do note that the current overall #1 song sitewide on the KIAC Big 100,000 Independent Music Charts is a Hip Hop song.
I would also love to see the charts comments page return. It was very cool to have the opportunity to thank listeners for streaming songs and propelling them higher up the charts. What good is it to leave those thanks in the forums if only a few people are reading and participating in them? Sure, some artists used that comment area to blatantly push their music out there. But for the most part, it was a place where humility and thanks was constantly being exhibited by artists. I am not sure why it was taken away but I would love to see it return. Wouldn’t you?
IAC Admin: The feature was not taken away; it still exists. It was taken off the charts page and given its own page, and that page is reachable by a link on the Charts page, in the left column of links, entitled "Comments".
I know this post may not be popular but I think it is time that someone said something. In all things there is always an ugly gorilla in the room that no one dare to bring up out of fear of some ominous retaliation. But I will go ahead and be the one who falls on his own sword by speaking up. I know that the ramifications for doing so may be harsh or detrimental to my status here at IAC. But that's okay if it opens the door to the recognition of a more diverse musical experience at IAC. I am old and don’t matter much anymore so I’ll take the hit here.
IAC Admin: One of the things we've quietly done is to do away with the spirit and atmosphere which did exist at one time, where people might be called down for perceived straying for a set of rigid rules. Your post and ensuing discussion is most welcome.
IAC can only be as good as we all make it. This includes both management and membership. I would love to read more about the collective creative process. So many artists do IAC forum drive by's where they hit us with a self promo, a link (to some other musicians website) and a puffed up "look at me" testimonial about how great they are. Although it may be true that they are great, wouldn't it be nice if they shared how they got great so others can learn how to get there to? I know, I am probably asking for too much…..
I would love to see the “Spotlight/interviews” prompt updated (hasn’t been since 2007). The return of the “featured Artist Of The Week”. The return of the Golden Kayak Awards (gone since 2007) and an update on the “Legends of IAC” (last update in 2008). I think this would give the website a more current feel to it. I know doing all this would require more work from management but maybe some of the work could be shared by members by giving them more opportunities to get involved in the website. We have some great writers here that could contribute to the cause.
IAC Admin: The Featured Artist spot is coming back soon; we already have several features on deck. The Legends of IAC is being revived with the upcoming induction of several well known artists who have contributed greatly to the site of their time helping others and of their music. Bringing back new interviews is another worth goal but does require some additional help from members. And lastly, The Golden KIAC Awards is a great brand (Pete Townshend received one, for example) and is in the plans to restart, with eligibility going through the end of this year for the 2013 awards. See more about this in a subsequent post here to follow in a few days
Okay, the grumpy old fart is going back to his studio now. These are just thoughts that I can no longer hold in. I promise to shut the hell up for a while. I value this site immensely. Whenever there is some technical problem and it goes off line, I miss it tremendously and always have a sigh of relief when it returns! I am committed to being a part of this great musical community. I would love to see more members making that kind of commitment and more opportunities opened up by management to gain more involvement from members. Moreover, I would love to see the site make a more consistently diverse commitment to the world class array of artists who have their music here. Am I asking too much? Well, if I am, I apologize for being so damned needy. But I once read a very wise passage from a very special book that said “You have not because you ask not”. I would love to see IAC approach these suggestions with an eye towards improvement and an openness to honest and sincere suggestions. If you look into your own mirror and see things that need to be improved, imagine what others see when they look from the outside. But I am nobody of importance here. I’m just another musician who has love for the site. It is that love that has inspired me to write about these things. I hope that you can find merit in a few things I have written here. I hope it inspires thought and action towards the betterment of the site.
IAC Admin: "If you don't ask, you don't get." - Gandhi
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Stoneman
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9/12/2012 1:17:11 PM
Thanks so much for responding to my post. Also, I appreciate the fact that you are addressing some of the issues in a positive way. I am looking forward to seeing the updates you have planned as well as the return of some of the things that made IAC such a great place for musicians. Oh, and yes it is true that the current overall #1 song is a Hip-Hop song. It's my song so I am certainly proud of that accomplishment. It has been #1 in Hip-Hop for over two months now. But, it has never appeared on the hitline. Being #1 doesn't qualify it for hitline status? Also, thanks for telling me that the comment page still exists. I was not aware that there was a link for it. However, it was so much more visible when it was in the right column of the charts page. So, maybe you can take that under consideration?
Overall, I am quite impressed with your responses and I look forward to continuing the dialogue towards a mutually satisfying website experience. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help.
Much Respect,
Stoneman
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Bob Elliott
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9/13/2012 11:52:32 AM
The forum became about 5 percent the traffic it used to have (that's a high estimate) when it was made necessary to sign in before you could see the forum. That means if you don't join, you can't even see the forum. If a newcomer can't even see the forum, then they have no reason to think they might want to sign up, and they generally don't.
The forum didn't used to be hidden away, either, it was on the front page and all you had to do was click on it whether you were a member or not. Then they put it in a drop list under "community," and required that you are registered AND sign in if you want to see it.
Wow. I'm a member, and even I find it more difficult than any other forum to get to it. If you step out of the room and try to go back even within a minute you have to sign in again. Why? What's so top secret that we don't want strangers to see?
Right there I think is the main thing that killed this forum. Sometimes it remains unchanged for days. It used to change pretty much every five minutes.
In the past you could even see the top five or ten thread titles right on the front page. That encourages forum looks. It seemed to me IAC chose to actively dissuade forum looks by taking it off the front page and locking it even from view for nonmembers. To me it looked pretty much like they wanted to squash the forum for whatever reasons they might have had. Maybe they got tired of fights, but even the back and forth of little fights drives more traffic in places like this.
Oh, and no Steve Ison. Like, how can this place rock without Steve Ison?
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SILVERWOODSTUDIO
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9/13/2012 3:31:38 PM
Great to see IAC admin pick up the ball and respond, we need that ebb and flow or the site becomes just like all the thousands of sites we compete with.
It was the forum that first hooked us in here back in 2006??? and there was discussion around music, politics, guitar tunings , recording, song writing, love affairs, even food!!!
then came the trolls, and for a while it was flame wars-from the anons, that kinda backfired, and the numbers dropped away, the top bloggers turned their backs and the site became sterile, except for the great music!!!
Now it is so easy to join any of thousands of sites, for free which are like promo stores trying to get you to buy more of their products to become a star, lol!!!
IMHO the flame still flickers here, but it needs oxygen--- and open minded folks to contribute, or it will stay just another music site, with no point of difference
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Bob Elliott
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9/13/2012 3:33:13 PM
Oh, and Stoneman's got good bass, Mon.
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Voodoohead Productions
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9/13/2012 9:37:05 PM
good thread
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The Dorroughbys
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9/14/2012 1:50:56 AM
We came here initially but found the forum too stuffy, with its own self appointed censors and critics (not IAC staff) telling us what we could and couldn't say, and whose music was and wasn't good enough to be recognised. We had a song selected for the front page in 2010 and logged in to the forum to find that song and a number of others selected at the same time criticised by a few regular IAC bloggers as being not good enough for that honour. We don't really care about that, but it was certainly no incentive to come back in a hurry. We find quite a few of the blogs here to be nothing but disguised boasts eg "I would like to thank etc etc for making my song number one again etc etc", or simply compliment fishing. The replies are invariably "great song" etc etc. Not exactly exciting reading; in fact, it's very predictable and boring reading. This is certainly a very good site, but the blogs do need some more input from IAC staff both in terms of topics and moderation (for relevance) to ensure that they remain inclusive and relevant to the broader IAC membership. Until that time, we would prefer to just use our time writing and uploading more songs. There's very little to see here.
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Voodoohead Productions
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9/14/2012 9:05:28 AM
to Trip poppies,
sorry to hear of your experience here on the blog being somewhat negative and feedback on songs not meeting your approval. we appreciate your feedback and sharing your personal experiences though, but yes, there are very few who really participate here anymore. I did, lots at one time. sharing my own suggestions and ideas and providing what I thought was good advice but for various reasons I prefer not to get into why i dont really spend time here. partially, I am a busy guy, so my time is valuable like yours, who wants to be in a place that is boring, has lack of subject matter that is interesting and shows no evidence of going anywhere now and into the future. the damage has been done and people artists and visitors members have better things to do then sit here and share there daily lives, thats what facebook is for. ha, even that is losing its glamor. who cares right, but if there is something worthwhile to share then good. but make it an interesting read
Yes there are those who laud themselves, preach their accomplishments as I do on occasion of the artists i am supporting and assisting, but frankly I rarely do it here, there is no point, this is not a place where you are going to get discovered or recognized....the fact is it is a medium to get your music where maybe no one else would see it, but then again, where it really happens is out in the real world, pushing your wares and swag playing and selling it out there, not here. you aint gonna be a star here. and if that is what you want then that is the wrong motive anyways
the bottom line is, just make music and dont expect anything beyond what you are doing, you love making your vibe and sharing it , and enjoying the experience of doing it then if if someone digs it , well cool
I know of your material, and have featured a number of your tunes on a few stations. I like your works and have provided some feedback, or maybe comments about your style , we all dont have time to critique in the way perhaps you expect, we are not here to put down your music but to enjoy what you share. if there is negative or constructive criticism well that is a good thing, I listen to loads of music, since I promote musicians songs to radio, maybe 20 percent make the cut. the rest
just dont have what it takes to be accepted on terrestrial satelitte and even some well established internet radio stations. lets face fm am radio had to jump on board and get their streaming radio online as well, so that is a good thing , there is a lot I could say, but spent enough time here already
Topics and blogging and getting people onboard
There have been some good topics and discussions here and Stoneman is trying to get things happening and i commend him for trying
bottom line
music comes from the heart, it is all about the emotional content mixed in with the interpretative components and quality of production and level of musicianship.
some do better then others at it, this is a good place to learn your chops and listen to what others have going on, that is how we learn, by listening and learning from others in writing good music and learning the songcrafting aspect of this artform
good luck to all
bryon
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Bob Elliott
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9/14/2012 12:00:41 PM
Trip Poppies, it kind of seems to me that in the same post you complained people were too harsh in their criticism of the music and also too nice.
"The replies are invariably "great song" etc etc."
" criticised by a few regular IAC bloggers as being not good enough "
I don't actually think the lack of traffic has anything to do with the style of the posts. It is because the door is mostly blocked.
There is a lake in the community I live in that we all are supposed to have access to because we all have to pay fees to live here. But in order to use that lake you have to stop by an office and pick up a key. Go to the lake, unlock gate, lock it while you're there, unlock it to leave, return key...
Hardly anyone uses that very cool lake.
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Stoneman
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9/18/2012 11:10:32 PM
Wow, I think Bob gave us some really great insights in regards to what has happened to the IAC forums. I agree with everything he has written. In order for the forum to gain ground again it must be more visible and accessible. Thanks for your input Bob! Of course that would cause management to have to spend more time monitoring content. But, what a great problem to have. Right?
Sorry that I haven't been able to contribute much lately but last Monday a physician cut me open and saved my life. I have still been stopping by everyday but the pain has been too intense for me to write much. My condition is getting better every day. I may be able to get back in the musical scheme of things in a few weeks. It will be a while before I am 100% but I am back. The old fart still has a song or two left in him.
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. Thanks to IAC for allowing it to be seen! You all Rock!
Stoneman
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Richard Scotti
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9/19/2012 6:36:37 AM
Sorry to hear about your health problem, Stoneman. I'm glad you are OK!
Get well soon, my friend
Rich
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Shoe City Sound
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9/19/2012 11:08:34 AM
This thread has gotten more interesting with each comment ... great post Stoneman and glad to hear you are mending. Take care of yourself
D
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LyinDan
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10/5/2012 8:22:00 AM
Get well, Stoneman. Best wishes.
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Stoneman
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10/9/2012 7:50:17 PM
Thanks Rich and Lyin Dan! I am getting better everyday. Actually up and about again. Already back in the studio working on new music. I'm Blessed!
Much Respect,
Stoneman
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Chandra Moon
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10/12/2012 2:06:31 PM
What a great thread - really interesting and I agree with so much of what Stoneman and several people have said.
Personally I don't blog much here but do like to keep in touch. I agree with what Bryon says too that this place won't make anyone a star but it is a great place to upload and share music and I really enjoy managing my stations as a fun hobby and a great chance to listen to independent music from some really good musicians.
I personally would also like to see more on the open public page as I think that is what draws new people in - certainly in my case it was the interaction and constructive comments which kept me here.
Thanks Stoneman for re-starting this discussion and hope you're back to full health soon x
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