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Stoneman
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3/22/2016 5:44:10 PM
Mac Or PC?
Yes, the age old question comes back. For most of my computer time I was a PC guy. Even though Apple was right down the street from my job (Intel) I was hooked on PC's. I ran several recording suites through it and upgraded to a new one every 2 or 3 years. My first experience with using Mac's was in Recording Engineering classes (2006). We were required to use both Mac and PC in the console rooms. I liked it but a lot of my recording tools were PC only. Then, in 2008 when Mac announced that they were going to make using PC applications through Boot camp partitions a reality, I went out and bought a Mac Pro. It was the most expensive computer ($2,400.00) I ever bought. Probably one of the best investments I ever made though. Up until that point I had no idea that applications could run on a computer error and crash free. Every PC I had ever had was problematic in that way and I had learned to live with it. So, I partitioned my hard drive and started running Windows on my Mac. That way I could continue to use the thousands of dollars worth of recording tools I have that are not Mac compatible. That was way cool. But then I started using the Mac side of my computer running Pro Tools and Logic Pro. Man, I couldn't believe how smoothly everything ran. To this day my Mac has never ever crashed. Amazing when I consider that that was a common occurrence on my PC. My PC always had performance issues with Pro Tools, Cubase, Sonar and Acid. I was shocked at how smoothly the Mac side ran my programs. I added 32 GB's of Ram and boy this baby hums with unlimited amounts of Plug in's loaded now. So yeah, I am a Mac guy now. I don't even use the Windows side of my Mac anymore. 8 years later and my Mac is still running like a champion. By now, I would have bought two or 3 new PC's. Plus on Mac, OS system upgrades are either free or dirt cheap compared to Windows. What about you? Mac or PC and why?
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Noah Spaceship
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3/22/2016 5:56:39 PM
Mac
My Daughter the art student/3D modeler swore by them, and her wealthy Grandfather bought her a MacBook. That laptop lasted almost 10 years.
We upgraded to a used iMac for her and found the same thing you did, the computer ran so well and stable.
I picked up a used iMac a few years ago when I put together the studio because I kept hearing about garageband and Logic Pro. I am so glad I did!
I paid a lot of money for a 2009 iMac ($400) - but in the grand scheme of things, I think I got a killer deal because it still runs like a champ! You cannot say that about a 2009 PC, and the initial money paid has come back to me 10 fold.
Logic Pro only cost $200 compared to Pro Tools $600+ and it serves me very well.
I also purchased a used MacBook Pro in 2014 so I now have 2 macs.
Both Macs are updated with the new El Capitan OS and run great! they are both 5 years old too.
I know a lot of people say the Macs are too expensive, but if you are using these as tools, the time saved not crashing and extended life and compatibility more than makes up for it, and I say they end up saving you money in the long run.
I Love my Macs!
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Steve White
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3/22/2016 6:32:55 PM
Both for me.
I tried out the first iPad and really liked it so since then I've had the 2, 3 air 2 and the Pro.
I have a Sony Vaio Laptop that I like because it's touch screen and has an SSD in it. I have an older desktop in the music room that I haven't even turned on in months.
I can't totally switch over to Mac because I have a lot of older friends on PC's and I have to stay up with the curve for them.
The iPad Pro? Yep it's great!
Steve
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Stoneman
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3/22/2016 6:47:39 PM
Noah,
Yeah my brother has a Mac that he has been running film software (he's a film director) for 15 years on. The Veterans Administration just bought him a brand new Mac Pro to help him run a new television channel for veterans on their network. He loves it!
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Hop On Pop
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3/22/2016 7:01:41 PM
I work in advertising/publishing.
Mac for me. 100%.
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Two Silo Complex
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3/22/2016 7:11:26 PM
For art or music mac are very stable. The difference in how mac os handles available resources was always far better than PC. The problem if you call it a problem with mac is that it is so proprietary and it can be limiting or at least it used to be limiting.
With PC yes there can be stability issues but I don't have many issues since windows 7. Windows xp well that is a different animal although I also found it fairly stable. I always install my recording software and songs on a separate hard drive away from windows OS anyway.
I never really ventured into current macs so my mac knowledge is pretty old. I do know that they hold up well over time when compared to PC. I don't have a dedicated computer that is only for my studio if I did I might choose mac but since I need my pc to perform other functions in life like work and other things I enjoy like games the mac does not make it to my desk.
If your looking for a stand alone console for heavy duty art programs or dedicated console for recoding only mac is generally more stable and uses resources better but PC gives you greater flexibility in the other programs that you might like to use in life that are not always available or expensive for the mac version.
Yes I know about dual booting windows in mac and switching from windows to mac os but using windows in mac is not worth the effort in my opinion.
TSC,
Ken
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Stoneman
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3/22/2016 10:51:15 PM
I thought that way to Ken. But now I go back and forth from Mac OS to Windows with ease. I have two other PC's but I haven't had to turned them on in years. I have 4 internal hard drives with 1 T of storage each. Partitioning one out for Windows (10) was easy. It actually runs better on my Mac than it does on my PC's and laptop. In Windows 7 there was a design flaw that only allowed it to see 2 GB of my memory. But with Windows 10 it can see all 32 GB's of Ram now which gives me great processing power on the Windows side. But I do most of my production work on the Mac side. I use the Windows side if I want to use programs that are incompatible with Mac. But, as great as Mac is, I never stopped working with Word, Excel and other Windows programs. Guess I am just hooked on that stuff. I agree though about the proprietary issues with Mac.
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3/23/2016 6:11:53 AM
I started out on PCs.
One Day an iMac was given to my wife and I.
We were afraid to open it. The box remained closed
for a couple months. Finally we said 'let's stop being pussies'
and just went for it.
We immediately fell in love with it.
It's easier, it's more intuitive, it doesn't go blue screen of death on you,
it is just plain better than a PC, and that's someone who worked
for years on PCs, but then I met the iMac...
I've been partial to Macs ever since.
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Richard Scotti
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3/23/2016 6:30:22 AM
By far, Apple computers are more user friendly and more stable than PC's. They seem to be more for us creative types than PC's not just in ease of use but because of the amazing applications. Another plus for Apple is the fact that they have excellent tech support. When I bought my first MAC I had a 3 year customer service warranty and could call them on the phone 24/7. I always got an intelligent, patient person on the phone in minutes and they were extremely helpful walking me through all kinds of situations with no limits on time. I felt like they had my back. What great branding!
I wish they were less expensive but you get what you pay for. I think that Microsoft has gotten better and some of their newer products seem quite impressive but I really don't care. I'm hooked on Apple.
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Two Silo Complex
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3/23/2016 7:45:34 AM
Stoneman said
" In Windows 7 there was a design flaw that only allowed it to see 2 GB of my memory"
Are you sure that was windows and not your mother board bios? Bios controls all kinds of thing what size HD your mother board can use what type of memory it can use etc.
Maybe this was a flaw in early windows 7 but with windows service packs my PC at home has 8 gb ram and see's it just fine it started with 4 gb and also saw that. So I am not sure what limitation you had that only allowed you to see 2 gb.
Like I said my knowledge of macs is not current at all. I find the revisions of mac OS confusing they give them dumb names like leopard that makes it more difficult when you go to the store and by software it will say compatible with os 10 but apple seems to think everyone knows there terminology I don't know if leopard is os 10 or 8 or what so it makes getting compatible hardware for mac strange since apple names it one way and everyone else names it by the version number.
I'm interested in learning about the new macs I know they are a lot more powerful than ever before maybe someday I'll have a dedicated mac for my studio.
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Two Silo Complex
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3/23/2016 10:02:47 AM
Well I looked at prices for IMAC and mac mini
Imac was 2,6000.
I think mac mini was 1,600.
For the same price Intel PC I7 quad core processor 4 gb ram dedicated nvidia graphics 540 mb HD I got PC for 700 and bought a 2 tb drive for my music for 100 bucks so 800 total.
Mac price are pretty insane when you compare what you can get in processing power ram and HD space PC for 2,600. you could have an awesome studio with 16 in 16 out and nice studio monitors and the works for the same price of only the mac no interface
I don't think I'll be moving to mac anytime soon.
TSC
Ken
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Stoneman
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3/23/2016 1:17:02 PM
Ken,
There is no doubt that they are expensive compared to a PC. I concur with that. So, I can understand if you don't want to spend the extra money. In regards to the Windows problem, they admitted that there was a flaw and that they were going to fix that when they rolled out Windows 10. They actually did fix it because I can use all of my RAM now that I have upgraded. The problem was related to an incompatibility problem with Windows 7 and the Mac boot camp application.
I was a PC guy for many years for the same reason as you. When my finances improved and they announced the ability to load Windows on the new Macs, I bought my Mac and arrived at the conclusion that they are superior to PC in many ways. I still have my PC's, I just don't use them anymore. I have never had a PC that lasted as long or ran as smoothly as my Mac. That is just my personal experience. So, if you get some extra cash check it out. If not, keep making great music on your PC.
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Two Silo Complex
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3/23/2016 1:38:24 PM
---- Updated 3/23/2016 1:53:06 PM
32bit OS are limited to use just a maximum of 2GB RAM .
My windows 7 64 bit sees all my ram with no problems.
For the same price as the base IMAC no software no interface I could build an entire studio that would be awesome compared to what I have now.
To give you an idea how shitty my setup is I do my mix with on-board sound card and cheap ass computer speakers, no interface, no professional monitor's the most basic setup you can get.
I tricked pro-tools hd to use my asio driver for my on-board sound card. Don't ask me how I did that it took me a week to get it running.
Once I get a mix done then I listen to it on a cheap ass pioneer stereo with 5 inch sony book shelf speakers that I got for 30 dollars and a subwoofer 50 bucks and tweek it
Then stream it wireless to my xbox and listen to it on my good stereo for final mix.
If my mix sounds good on cheap 30 dollar computer speakers, my 5 inch book shelf speakers and my big stereo then I cut it. If not I fix it until it sounds good everywhere. That way I know no matter how crappy someones sound system is mine is even more crappy. When I play my mixes on better systems they sound pretty damn good.
I do agree that mac is more stable I just can't justify the cost.
If I had 2600.00 to spend on my studio my work would be amazing.
Ken
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Noah Spaceship
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3/23/2016 2:11:11 PM
---- Updated 3/23/2016 2:13:43 PM
FWIW - I bought later model Macs used for the price of a new PC which would be obsolete by now but my Macs are still running strong.
I game on my Macs, and I gave my PCs away, which were newer at the time and My dad who I gave one of the laptops to hates the damn thing because it lags like a little bitch when streaming video. The shelf life of PCs is probably a 1/4 of the time you get out of a mac. So in the end, you crash, and after 6 years you spend almost the same amount of money, or like in my case, way less because I purchased used Macs.
Seriously, $1200 3-4 years ago, I am running 2009 and 2010 models and the time I have gained by not being dead in the water with crashing and lagging I don't sweat because I am not wishing I could get that time back.
Macs are superior hands down.
It's kind of like my Volvo with 300,000 miles. In 1996 it cost $45,000. I paid $4,000 for it 3 years ago. It is a dream to work on. Parts are readily available and cost no more than any other later model car, it is safe AF, and I could sell it today for at least what I paid for it, not to mention, I will get another 100,000 miles out of it with regular maintenance. AND, it is the Turbo R type, and is fast as a Chipped HP car or anything else on the road as well.
Mac is to computers as Volvo is to Automobiles.
That's my take :)
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Stoneman
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3/23/2016 11:39:51 PM
Ken,
I am no stranger to lean times and makeshift gear. Been there and done that. I applaud your "get it done with what I got" attitude. That is the kind of attitude that it takes man. Imagine what you will be doing when you have the funds to get better equipment. During lean times, some of the things I did was: 1. save to buy one piece of gear at a time. 2. Went to a lot of musicians garage sales. 3. Bought lots of used gear by reading ads in the local music trades magazines. 4. instructed my family to purchase me Guitar Center gift cards instead of clothes and shit for my birthdays, Christmas etc. 5. Bought shit from the music store consignment centers for dirt cheap. 6. Worked extra jobs/shifts to buy gear. 7. Grew weed and sold it to buy gear. 8. Layaway Bro.! Put a few bucks down on it and came back and made deposits until I could get it out. 9. Used recording facilities at local churches (a lot of them have them) for dirt cheap. 10. Traded services (gigs, vocal coaching, guitar lessons, piano lessons, Sax/trumpet lessons etc. for money to buy gear. It was hard times but I was willing to do whatever I could do to improve my gear and my music. I still am and do. Also, I competed and won lots of gear in songwriting competitions. Just a few ideas for you to marinate in your brain. One thing I learned years ago is that once you start putting together a recording studio, you will never be finished. There will always be that next piece of gear that you want or need. It never ends man.............
Much Respect Bro.,
Stoneman
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Two Silo Complex
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3/24/2016 1:06:11 PM
I hear ya Stoneman I do buy stuff from second hand stores, used gear from music stores etc but sometimes that bites you in the butt when you pay 100 bucks and the amp dies 6 months later. These days I try to avoid that and save my pennies then a few times a year when I can afford to I buy a nice piece of gear. My tastes are pretty expensive when I buy it I research the shit out of it and listen to it multiples times when I can.
I know the gear when I buy it will last me. I treat it right. I still have my original bass guitar that every single person that hears it goes "wow that has great tone" that I got at 16 years old.
unfortunately I went through a phase where I was feed up with a lot of things and got out of music for many years and in that time I sold a lot of good gear I had built over the years and I'm still recovering from that mistake.
TSC,
Ken
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