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Tom O'Brien
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12/14/2012 7:25:29 PM
Is virtuosity dead?
There's so much music I hear on the radio where it doesn't seem like there is actually a good player behind the sounds. Beats are sampled, keyboards make amazing sounds using one finger at a time, bass lines are repetitive and unimaginative, guitar chords are predictable. Sometimes, the overall effect is still good and if there's a good voice involved, then they don't need much else.
But there was a time when all the musicians in a band were virtuosos. That used to be the case because it used to take a lot of money to make a song viable (payola and studio time). Now we live in an age where literally anybody can make music. Not to take credit away from those of you who really are great players - there are plenty on IAC - but I think we as music listeners have lowered our standards too much and the result is that sometimes a song on the radio is so bad and so insulting to the people who care about the sounds they make that I have to turn it off. It sickens me to listen to what passes for music sometimes.
There will always be great music somewhere, but the virtuosity is just so often missing. I'm afraid that younger listeners are not going to care about virtuosity. Does it even matter anymore?
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Voodoohead Productions
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12/14/2012 7:37:59 PM
Hi Tom
No , virtuosity is alive and well. especially if one is working their chops regularly
but really I guess if people started off in the classical or similar regimens ( not necessary classically trained but where one learned the fundamentals of the basics of music in their particular discipline) and learned the disciplines of scales, technical components ,learned songs from the masters of whatever genre they do, then not really, I have a lot of artists send me their music and some of it is pretty amazing.
So my feeling is ,no, and especially when I still teach I see many younger students who surpassed where I was at their age. I suppose the key is inspiring musicians motivating and encouraging them to really work and love what they do....and see the value in what they do...
bryon
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Chandra Moon
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12/15/2012 3:45:53 AM
I think it's very, very varied. Personally I am an all round average musician (keys, guitar, drums, flute, vocals) but definitely not virtuoso at anything. I always use good musicians on my recordings though and I write most of the drum parts in liaison with my producer and know exactly what I want. I'm certainly not a good guitarist but I write all the main guitar parts and again know exactly what is needed and make sure it's played precisely as I hear it in my head. I cannot play lead guitar or bass at all.
Making music is an amazing process - some people write, some people play, some people do both and some are genuinely brilliant. We can't all be everything. Composers don't play all the instruments in an orchestra but to me that doesn't make the piece any less amazing. I always get the whole lot in my head and it's such a relief to be able to go in the studio and work with the producer and other talented musicians to get it "out" into a finished piece.
I agree though about some studio manufactured "music" just being a series of samples and drum patterns which is just so boring and uninspiring to listen to. However, even producing amazing electronic music requires a fantastic ear and a set of different skills.
My take is hurray that there's so much music in so many formats from a single voice to an entire choir and orchestra or bands! Musicality and virtuosity is certainly not dead! I know heaps of brilliant, briliant musicians from so many different cultures and styles.
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Hop On Pop
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12/15/2012 5:01:24 AM
I'm a virtuosity killer.
I say this not out of modesty, but because I am.
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Chandra Moon
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12/15/2012 5:22:47 AM
And just think of famous musicians who can't even sing very well such as Dylan!! It's all so subjective!
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Bob Elliott
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12/15/2012 12:01:27 PM
Virtuosity sometimes translates into Joe Satriani.
What matters to me is feel, and I guess the virtuosity of feel is what I go in for most.
Like in that sense Dylan from '62 to '75 at least was a master.
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Voodoohead Productions
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12/15/2012 1:53:13 PM
Bob Elliott stated "What matters to me is feel, and I guess the virtuosity of feel is what I go in for most."
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I totally agree with your point here Bob, without question, "feel" and interpretation and or capturing the essence of a song. reeling in that expressiveness and color is something that one paints the song with. with word images and or soundscaping
I think when one is younger,speaking from my personal experience ,its getting the knowledge of how a particular instrument works, and learning about it, how it responds and such, then as one becomes more familiar and more adept of its capabilities,and as one grows in the nature of the instrument then the feel becomes to one more naturally, although there are some who possess this intrinsic ability early and they may be more aware of their connection to their instrument of choice,
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Stoneman
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12/15/2012 2:12:51 PM
I'm sort of like Chandra. A jack of all trades (Vox, Bass, Guitar, Keys, Sax, Trumpet and drums) but a master of none. In a real sense, I am a pretty bad musician. I can't play anything and sing at the same time and because I am self taught, my playing techniques suck. But I manage to do well enough to make some decent recordings. I do everything on my recordings because it is cost effective. Also, the only ego I have to deal with is that Grey bearded guy in the mirror. When I was young I taught myself to play many instruments because I wanted play in a band. Any band and every band. Being multi-instrumental made it possible for me to keep gigging. One time there was a Reggae band that I wanted play in but they needed a drummer. I'm no drummer but I auditioned anyway and they hired me. They just wanted someone to stay on beat and play fills every now and then. That lasted until the vocalist got sick. Then they made me sing lead and hired a real drummer. I never played drums in a band again. I guess most people would say my strength is in songwriting because I have won so many awards for that. It's probably true. But I have known some very wonderful virtuosos and have been blessed to be in their presence when they made musical magic.
I also am tutoring some up and coming artists who have great promise. I can see so much advanced ability in two of them. One is an outstanding musician/vocalist. I believe that she is going to take the world by storm. The other is a very bright young man who is singing and playing music in stage plays. Then, there is my nephew who is possibly a phenom. He is 11 years old and already plays keys, Bass, Guitar, Drums and sings circles around me. He opened for Smokey Robinson when he was 7 years old. This is only what I have seen in my tiny corner of the world. I can only imagine all the great artists that are waiting to take the stage all over the world. It is a very fascinating thing to see virtuosity in the beginning stages.
So, I would say that virtuosity is certainly not dead. There are some very cool musicians coming up that will be taking their spotlights when it is time. For them, having the advanced technology is only going to make them better faster. I encourage them to use every tool available to make their music superb. So many people think that virtuosity is a learned thing. But I believe that it is born. Some people are just amazingly musical from birth. I gave my nephew a small casio when he was 5. By the time he was 6 he was playing everything he heard on the radio. Man, I was beyond impressed! All I am saying that as long as people are inhabiting this earth, there will be those who exceptionally musical.
A lot of people see Dylan as a master. Well, to be honest, I could take or leave his vocals. But his songwriting is definitely exceptional and far beyond many of the so called greats.
When I think of virtuosos I think of people like Stevie Wonder, Phillip Bailey and Prince.
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Richard Scotti
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12/16/2012 7:19:58 AM
---- Updated 12/16/2012 9:47:04 PM
Virtuosity isn't dead but the powers that be in the music industry don't value it because they can make more money without it. If they can create "hits" on the cheap by hiring people who know how to produce "fake" music with no musicians, they will take the cheap option every time. Hiring real musicians or accomplished songwriters is expensive.
I know many artists who are virtuosos but they can't get a record deal because virtuosity is longer prized as a necessary attribute for success. It makes me sick to my stomach but it doesn't deter me from doing what I do. I've been told by some industry folk that I shouldn't play play intricate guitar solos on demos because they aren't "necessary" and that many current artists don't have that skill. They say that playing really well is considered "dated". Isn't that crazy??
I believe that if you do something well ~ than let your freak flag fly!!!! I'm no virtuoso
but I do a few things fairly well and I think that perhaps the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts.
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Duane Flock
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12/16/2012 8:12:49 AM
I'm 56 now and like Chandra and many others a jack of all trades/ master (virtuoso) of none. I decided a couple of years ago to take lessons to possibly become the best a just one of my instruments. Although I've made a lot of progress, I'll never in my own mind be good enough, which is really great for my guitar teacher. But then...... is it not other peoples decision on what a virtuoso qualifies to be? Is it a label atributed to someone at the peak of thier career? I myself picked jazz or fusion artists as my heros/ virtuosos because of sheer skill and knowledge. Someone else could pick SRV just because of preference of genre. I imagine that several people have to be in agreement along with abilities of the artists, and several other factors to consider a person of that cailber.
I've been a member here almost 10 years. A few of my tunes have gotten close to the top only to fall back to the bottom. That's OK, songs do that. People play the crap out of a song until it gets boring. Oddly enough, a couple of songs have came back up into the top 50 and have stayed there for quite sometime. Two possible factors are happening here. Either a lot of people have left and it's just plain mathamatical, or someone actually likes what I'm doing. Me? A virtuoso........ I don't think so.
Music is for crazy peoples sanity. If you're a virtuoso/master, you are just a little more crazier than me. Although, I try to practice and go a little nuts everyday.
I do believe that when we are all in our element, when we stretch our abilities to the limit and really put our hearts into our works, we are all vituosos and the dream comes alive!
Peace,
D
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Voodoohead Productions
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12/16/2012 9:00:57 AM
Richard Scotti said "Justin Bieber doesn't need to be a virtuoso in singing or playing or writing. He just needs to be cute and have the latest hair style."
Say Richard, i think your comment was a bit ignorant on Justin Bieber, Do you know he is accomplished in other aspects of the music end of things such as guitar, piano, drums and trumpet. He has spent thousands of hours developing his craft since young and is a very gifted and successful individual and that has come through being a hard worker as well as possessing huge amounts of determination and drive.
Besides being a successful musician he also has many charities he works with as well as his own in which he devotes time and energy to.
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Bob Elliott
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12/17/2012 4:24:55 PM
I think bieber might be considered a virtuoso of sorts. Think he has a pretty rare singi g talent for starters. Dancing, too.
He doesn't move me, but he's young, I wouldn't count him out.
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Tom O'Brien
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12/17/2012 6:44:59 PM
What cracks me up about you is that I know you sincerely meant every word you said. You may be right - he's got talent. Maybe prodigy is the word more than virtuoso. I think you have to not only be the master of your instrument to be a virtuoso, you also have to have the patina of experience that informs your playing.
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Voodoohead Productions
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12/17/2012 6:54:52 PM
The beebs has a ways to go,and see if he lasts but lets face it, he seems to be doing better then a lot of them, most are like farts in the wind. or something like that.
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