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Father Time
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12/26/2015 9:30:07 AM
I'm frustrated with the time-released aspect of music
I feel that people don't get my music the way they should, and I think some of this is due to the fact that my influences are so vast, my songwriting is so hybrid, that the music takes a bit of familiarity to the listener before it can really kick in properly for them. I was especially disappointed with how my Negative Tendencies project was received around the web. Got a lot of nice comments but no real excitement seemed to be generated and I feel the project was worthy of such excitement.
I keep thinking about back in the day when I bought Dark Side of the Moon after reading some article raving about it,. Playing it once or twice it didn't really do much for me at all, but it was a long dull summer so I kept playing it and by oh, the 7th or 8th time I started to become familiar and then it all opened up for me. I'd add that most of my favorite records ever are the same way, they have a complexity that really only allowed them to shine once I became familiar.
How can you even hope to get people to listen 5 times to your EP for them to really have a chance to get it?
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Bryon Tosoff
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12/26/2015 10:31:37 AM
I hear ya, and understand your concerns, and I know there are people who appreciate what you do, i actually get what you do, because I take the time to listen, some songs take time to grow and influence one. Some songs are like a real good red wine, and it hits you right off. I think I have a pretty good understanding of your art and the way you craft your lyrics and like quite a lot of what you compose , I wont say i like everything you do FT, as we all have a certain taste for a particualr genre of music.
anyways, it is like i tell so many who I have worked with over the years, you have these children you made in song, you say to them now go and do something with your lives. To me, I think it is important to move on to understand, it is out of your control once you let your children off into the world. Some of your music may be more charming and interesting and engaging and others not so much, as each song is a reflection of you , yet not quite the whole you, hope this makes sense, all I am saying, let the songs find their own way, some will do better then others, we cant call them back and say, you are not doing good enough, i will make a new you. lol, although I know some artists who have done that. and it drives me nuts.
cheers
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Jilly
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12/26/2015 11:45:03 AM
I think you are in good company FT.
Over the years I have often been cool on first listens of quite famous artists. I have only recently started to appreciate Elvis Costello, heard him a couple of times and didn't get why he was doing so well then suddenly I was in the right mood at the right time and I the light bulb went on.
George Michael's songs always needed to be heard a few times before I started to understand them and find the secret of his success. And the most famous 'late starter' for me was always Paul McCartney, in his Wings era especially. I was comparing him with The Beatles instead of having an open mind.
I feel bad that time pressure forces me (and others) to make snap decisions about new songs. I liken it to meeting new people. Some of the loveliest people I've known made poor first impressions on me. I'm glad I'm learning not to dismiss people (and songs) because they have small faults or don't appeal instantly, but I'm still guilty of being an impatient listener. A pretty face or a pretty intro can be your salvation and listeners will make allowances for anybody or anything once they're a convert.
I used to spend ages working on my outros and solos and then one day I thought "Why bother, people will have switched me off way before those parts" now most of my endings are simple fades. I used to like Garageband when you could ask listeners to comment on certain parts of your songs.... I usually said something near the end :)
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LyinDan
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12/26/2015 2:25:34 PM
When radio was king, you'd be forcefed songs until you comprehended or hated them, or both. Doesn't happen nowadays, unless you listen to bland commercial channels habitually. It's too fragmented otherwise.
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12/26/2015 11:18:30 PM
With regard to Negative Tendencies, I think if they'd been eligible, I would have nominated them as 'Band of the year' I was really struggling to find any other band with good songs uploaded in 2015. Maybe that will cheer you a little :)
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Father Time
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12/27/2015 4:01:20 AM
Thanks for that!
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Noah Spaceship
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12/27/2015 7:22:01 AM
I can totally relate to that feeling, FT
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12/28/2015 4:14:46 AM
Well.. here's a couple things I think about this subject.
Hi, I'm Lesley, leader of the group, BEATLESEX.
Most of us know this by now, but I said it anyway.
Just because, and let's leave it at that for now.
I think, that things, things that are meant to be, happen,
in their precise place in time... and, yes, it can take a while,
to arrive, at that place in time.
Take, for example, The BEATLES.
By the time they played on Ed Sullivan, it was simply time.
Time for it all to happen.
But look at this.
Even a year, before then, they had, yes, they did,
a couple of small label releases here in the states,
including actually, She Loves You, on Swan Records.
And by and large, those records, Love Me Do on VeeJay Records
and yes, even She Loves You on Swan Records,
were going not much of anywhere, here in the United States.
Because, it just wasn't time yet.
And that wasn't even anything they were doing,
because She Loves You, was She Loves You.
It was the same bloody record! That's what I'm saying.
IT JUST WAS NOT TIME YET.
Patience then, is a virtue, which We Who Would Be Kings And Queens
Of The Future Of Rock N Roll, must cultivate.
Sure, we have to hone our craft, make it interesting, learn how
to make 'hooks' and all that crap, stuff that makes people WANNA listen...
beyond that?
Beyond that my friends, is wait for the particular beat that is YOUR TIME.
The BEATLES were THE BEATLES, on February of 1964.
Worldwide, 'cause, you know, there is no bigger place
to make it than in America. You make it here, you're basically
automatically Worldwide. And those who don't live here,
may disagree with me on that, and that's your prerogative to.
But beyond all sustainable argument,
even while 1963 saw The Beatles as undeniable Kings of Britain,
worldwide fame still eluded them,
and would continue to,
until they hit the stage on the Ed Sullivan Show,
and permanently made themselves, a part of all of us here.
We, Americans, Are Pacemakers.
You may not like it, you may deny it, but the facts speak for themselves.
Once The BEATLES had played Ed Sullivan Here,
THEN, And ONLY THEN, They Were Worldwide Superstars.
Now, my explaining this, is not meant to antagonize our fellows
from other countries, but instead, to explain,
one way, the very mechanism of 'how the right time eventually happens'
can, and in this instance, did, take place.
A thing before it's time is still called 'a potential thing'.
Beyond preparation, perfection,
and again reminding everyone,
that "She Loves You" by The Beatles, as it was released
on Swan Records in the United States in 1963,
was not, the big hit that song became just a year later....
well that's a big part of it.
It's what separates the novices from the in it for the long haul professionals:
Ya just gotta wait your turn.
~L
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Father Time
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12/28/2015 6:52:12 AM
Gotta disagree with you there, Lesley. I don't believe they're givin' out turns no mo.
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12/28/2015 9:58:41 AM
---- Updated 12/28/2015 10:01:07 AM
Well, by that yardstick, they weren't giving them out then.
They almost gave up even before getting signed.
Decca Records was their last best hope. And they told The Beatles no, also.
It almost didn't happen.
It takes, a certain degree of not taking no for an answer, and never giving up.
It was George Martin, who wasn't even in the Rock N Roll business
prior to working with those four lads from Liverpool, to give them their turn.
Their chance. Their go at it. They came up with Love Me Do,
which only hit number 17 on the charts, not a smash,
but enough of a success that they were still in the running.
Then they came out with Please Please Me.
BOOM.
Number One.
Sure, we can bitch about it,
I've been guilty of that myself. Wanna hear some?
The world's gone stupid. They don't know what good music is anymore.
Everyone's gone fucking soft in the brain, and they think this hip hop shite
sounds good, and it sounds like what it is; music as a weapon.
Sure, voice of a people, a very repressed and angry people.
I'm pretty repressed and angry myself, Mate. But I keep trying to
make Music for Music's sake. Or Rock N Roll for Rock N Roll's Sake,
however you wanna put it.
One of the reasons I've made Indie Music People My Home Base, Father Time,
is because, HERE, Music, Still Matters.
And yeah, it almost seems like out there in "Fucko Land"
(the rest of the world, that is)
that it no longer does.
I hear what you are saying about 'they're not giving out turns no mo'.
But they weren't so much then, either.
Perseverance, got them through to George Martin and EMI,
the band's and Brian Epstein's.
Perseverance, to come up with a hit song, got them Please Please Me,
a Lennon/McCartney composition.
George Martin originally wanted the boys to do, "How Do You Do It"
which ended up being a hit for Gerry and the Pacemakers.
John didn't like the idea, he cooperated, and they did make the record,
but he objected, and told George Martin so.
George Martin told Lennon 'you need a hit, this is one, you don't
want this to be your next record? Give me a better one'.
John then took a work he had originally written as a slow Roy Orbison
type of ballad, sped up the tempo something sick, and Please Please Me,
as we know it, was the result.
It isn't EASY, Father Time.
It's Never GOING To Be.
But you hear me say this to you all today.
I AM NOT GIVING UP.
I AM GOING TO BE
THE TOPPERMOST OF THE POPPERMOST,
AND NOBODY, no person, no supposedly better band,
no damned bunch of hateful awful hip hop noise either, is going to stop me.
Watch Me.
Disagree all you like, Mate.
It's a Free Country.
I intend to keep it that way.
I can't lay it all at the feet of hip hop.
Yeah, I mean no disrespect to those who make it,
and as a friend of mine once put in a song long ago,
"I don't even know you, man, I just hate your music."
And sure, I do think it's the worse damned thing to happen
to popular music in my lifetime. There. I said that.
I was the one with balls enough to be so blunt. Bully for me.
But also, Rock N Roll was becoming corporate bullshit,
like, ever since Lennon was whacked in front of his own building.
So it's on us as well,
We The Keepers Of The Rock N Roll Flame.
Now. You all can sit and whine, WAHHHHHHH
about how the good old days have passed us by.
And it's no fair anymore. Boooo Hoooooo.....
I'm a fucking walking hamburger right now,
but you mind me, I am more determined than ever before.
If they didn't kill me, then they only made me stronger.
I WILL Put ROCK N ROLL Back On Top.
And you who doubt, sit there and cry in your beers if you like.
I'm going to do it anyway.
Good Day, Folks.
~L, over and out
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Father Time
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12/28/2015 10:01:47 AM
Well, you pry the door open, I'll be the first one in. :)
I think to celebrate this thread, I'll upload one of my signature songs. Walmartville.
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12/28/2015 2:10:36 PM
Well Buddy, I'm sure gonna try to pry the bastard open, you have my word.
Yes, I saw that, Walmartville, looks interesting, I'm going to hobble
into the studio and get me headphones...
We just put one out called "Yoko Dear",
which, is actually a pretty clever and lyrically interesting song,
about the then, and the now, and the 'what the fuck is going on anyway' of it all.
That's a record I didn't even think I was up to making.
John got me out of bed-rest, and I didn't wanna, but John's
like a hungry cat when he's fixed on a bloody idea,
you can say no, it's back again meowing not five minutes later.
Of course, now that I've bitched about hip hop,
I'll have to put out a hip hop record of mine,
just to show I can do it. Was a hit, but I'll do that
in a day or two or whatever....
Have an ALJ record in the works I started yesterday,
but I don't have John breathing down me neck for that one,
so that can take whatever time it takes.
Anyway, I wanna hear what you laid down here, so let me go
get the headies...
Cheers,
~L
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12/28/2015 2:11:24 PM
PS, yes, this damn well is an interesting thread.
Hail Hail Rock N Roll.
~L
The boys concur.
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12/28/2015 2:26:42 PM
I love it. We love it. We wish we'd written it.
Now I got the bloody thing going through me head....
We all live in Walmartville... yeah that's in there pretty good.
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12/29/2015 1:09:30 AM
Okay, I put this out...
This is in fact, a Hip Hop Record which I made a while back,
that was, believe it or not, a SoundClick #1 Hit.
I also in this time period did a sort of Neo Soul one that
was also a #1, which I'll put out over the next few days,
'cause it was the follow-up hit to this one,
called "Make Me The Next Negger That You Kill"...
That was heavy. I was tired of reading about all these black people
being killed by police officers who really didn't have reasonable cause.
No matter what the Grand Jury said...
I don't even understand what a Grand Jury is...
seems just a way to shuffle and stack the deck if you ask me.
Call that my opinion as an American.
And Now, Ladies & Gentlemen, Here Is....
"Professor Von Biggernegga" by American Lesley Jane
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LyinDan
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12/29/2015 4:03:27 PM
---- Updated 12/29/2015 4:06:46 PM
White guys don't get hiphop.
You're on the right side, though :)
To add:
It's a great tune. It ain't really hiphop, but it's interesting to see what a Beatles hiphop would be like :)
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12/29/2015 5:00:35 PM
Well, it was received well enough by people in the Hip Hop Community,
as was the follow up record which is more "neo soul" or my version of it...
as for 'white guys don't get hip hop'...
well I think the more honest statement would be white guys don't like hip hop,
I generally don't care a whole lot for it,
Eminem is a white guy, and he seems to know hip hop enough to
have made himself pretty rich through it.
I at no time however make any claim to being a proper 'hip hop artist'...
I've had a go at it, and it was received well by those who are into that,
which I was happy enough with...
And honestly, I only put the thing out, since I'd just blatantly bad mouthed hip hop
at least in so far as admitting that I actually bloody can't stand the sound of it,
to my ears, it simply thinks it's better than it is.
I will always be a person with a rock n roll heart,
I just felt I had to put that out...
I'm curious to see whatever everyone's gonna think of the next
one, probably put that out tomorrow morning,
"Make Me The Next Negger That You Kill"...
That too, was well received, at first black people couldn't believe
I'd said such a thing, being to all appearances white, then they heard it,
and went 'oh' and they liked it. Not sure what white people will think of it.
Guess I'll find out.
Cheers...
~L
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12/29/2015 10:29:59 PM
But before I do that...
Because there's more to this story than where I ended up...
I will go back to the beginning.
Back to a time that's now so long ago I barely remember it....
Excuse me... be right back.
Talk about 'time released'... these are a couple of songs that may have
taken about fifteen or so years to make sense....
Okay, here's where I'm going with this...
Once upon a time, a prophet among us,
a man named David Bowie, made a song, title track of a whole album,
called "Diamond Dogs"...
In it, he said, and mind you Folks, this was 1974,
David Bowie said:
"Any day now, The Year Of The Diamond Dogs...
...This ain't Rock N Roll.... This is... GENOCIDE!"
This subject may be growing beyond the scope of this thread,
but here is where it began, so I'm leaving it here for now...
What was Bowie talking about?
He was a visionary. I had NO idea what the fuck he was talking about then.
None whatsoever. It's quite clear NOW of course.
Bowie, was talking about Hip Hop.
It is, music as a weapon. And it's really pathetic to see white people pretend
to like it, because it seeks to subjugate them. And they just 'wave their hands
in the air like they just don't care' as they are told to, by the mooks with the mikes.
It is, Genocide.
This is the elephant in the room.
Sure, I arrived at feeling very much like an unwanted unloved cast aside
negro myself... I feel that way, that doesn't mean I am seen that way.
I'm just seen as weird. And now that I'm coming out and saying ANY of
this, some may decide I'm a racist, but I am not. I just have the courage
to call out something.
Rock N Roll, was Fun. And, it was invented by Black People.
Black People who like the music they spawned, were in it to have fun,
to be alive, to be free.
Hip Hop is not Rock N Roll.
White Men aren't about to 'get' Hip Hop because Hip Hop endeavors
to 'get' as in 'hunt' White Men.
This is the elephant in the room.
This is the thing that no one will talk about.
Even bananas like Ted Nugent won't touch this subject with a ten foot pole.
So for all your big mouth, Nugent, watch this Lil Retard leave your shit
in the dust.
Why pretend to like Hip Hop, when Hip Hop damn well does not like you?
Screw it. Kill me. Because I'm giving them all the heads up here.
And you can remember that I did so, for what it is worth.
It is music as a weapon, it is ugly...
which brings me to a couple of songs I am about to release...
One is from my third American Lesley Jane album,
from, oh, 2002 around then...
called "Rap Is Ugly And It Dresses You Funny".
It's worse than that. It sucks big gnarly donkeys, and does it
with a combat helmet on. It seeks your submission, not your permission,
why do you think the rappers are always saying,
"Wave your hands in the air like you just don't care?"
Because, they are telling you, to be compliant.
NO.
I WON'T wave my hands in the air like I just don't care.
Because as it happens, I DO care.
And you WON'T hurt my friends, till you kill me where I stand.
IS That Quite Clear?
GOOD.
Glad we had this chat.
"There goes another...
Hey, Sorry Brother...
I'm as black as you, I know it too,
so take your best shot..."
That's another of the records I'm about to put out.
This has gone on long enough, I got nothing to lose now,
and I'm just going to say it.
It isn't your imagination that Hip Hop is Wretched and Awful and Hideous.
It sets OUT, To Be Exactly That.
AND THIS DAY, is when I finally stack it all together and Call It OUT.
Come Kill Me. Have Fun. And Don't Miss, or you will make me angry,
and you would not like me angry.
Years ago, when I wrote this stuff, these songs,
I thought of myself completely as White.
NOW? Now I think of myself as Blacker Than ANY Of You.
And yet, these songs mean more now than they did when I made 'em.
Long ago Hip Hop set out to 'take over' and in a great many ways,
it has. Well MEET THE RESISTANCE.
Now, NOW IS THE TIME....
Be back in just a sec...
Stay Tuned. ; - )
~L
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12/29/2015 10:50:09 PM
"The Invisible Girl" by American Lesley Jane
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12/29/2015 10:52:50 PM
"There Goes Another" by BEATLESEX
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12/30/2015 9:42:32 AM
Okay,
it may be, that we've reached the 'apex of attention span'
with this post...
it's possible, I'm thinking that happens.
but as I'm started with this wave of my 'resist the hip hop invasion' songs,
I'll be putting out more before I'm done with that.
maybe it'll be heard, maybe it won't, maybe it's ridiculously too late anyway.
what in heck do I know.
I know I look like hamburger at the moment, that's a no brainer.
but I listened to these two,
"Invisible Girl" and "There Goes Another",
last night at three in the morning when I put 'em out,
and they sound better now than they did then,
as if it took this long for them to really make sense.
there's some time released action for you.
~L
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12/30/2015 4:24:41 PM
Okay....
it's New Year's Eve-Eve, and maybe I should lighten up some....
I've actually been making records so long, that I have a bunch
on both sides of the equation. And I'm thinking that maybe this thread
is really not the place for all this.
So, I think, in the new year, I may start a thread,
and anyone who cares to comment, pro, or con, about it, may do so.
Because as I said, I've been on both sides of the argument by now.
With all the songs to go with either side...
Maybe I'll just put a couple more recent records next...
Okay, Happy New Year Everyone....
I'll explore this subject more thoroughly next year.
Have a good one....
~Lesley Jane
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Larree
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12/30/2015 5:03:02 PM
---- Updated 12/30/2015 5:05:17 PM
I only want to respond to one thing at this moment. Regarding Hip Hop. When I first heard Hip Hop. When it was real fresh...
I considered it to be the folk music of our day. Hip Hop in its infancy was as honest as it got.
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12/31/2015 4:53:55 AM
I was wondering when you'd weigh in on this.
Well, I kind of agree with this, sorta,
it may have peaked with RUN DMC...
but even they had to rely on using an Aerosmith soundbite
for their Big Hit "Walk This Way"... (a rapped version of the original Asmith tune)...
you're right, then, it was, at least sort of pure,
and about breaking free from oppression. Then.
It changed though, became about glorifying gangster violence,
and instead of inviting the listener, as rock n roll did in its early form,
it threatened the listener (and countless radio station DJs) at gunpoint.
I've made hip hop, more than folks realize, and I probably won't
release most of it. I'm old fashioned. I still love Rock N Roll the Best.
But this is refreshing discourse, and thank you for stopping by Larree.
Happy New Year, Brother.
~L
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Raandy
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12/31/2015 5:11:15 AM
The best and only original hiphop song was Rapper's Delight by Sugarhill Gang. The rest were the same song - plagiarism.
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12/31/2015 5:17:59 AM
Well, my large friend, you are uncannily accurate on that one...
I used to ride through Brooklyn and Bushwick on the bus,
long ago when I smoked weed and got it from Brooklyn,
and I rode past the Sugarhill Club, probably the place it was invented.
And I have to say, by and large, Large Man, I agree with you;
it appeared with the Sugar Hill Gang with some novelty,
and then they proceeded to repeat it for decades,
only it got less and less friendly and more and more meanspirited.
Far cry from where it started, which was just a sort of rhythmic
playing around of lyrics... but still... all talk, no melody. I like melody.
Call me old fashioned. ~L
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