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Father Time
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2/4/2017 11:41:29 AM
What's the max age for new rock stars?
23 or 77 or something else?
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/4/2017 12:13:41 PM
The vitality and freshness of music is more in the hands of the young, nothing fazes them, the zest and newness of the music they are discovering and working their chops gives them a huge advantage. not to say we me, specifically cant come up with something unique and cool, but the young ones have the edge. bigtime. I have seen it with some I have promoted. as they develop and grow their craft. The other thing, is playing live, you have to, that is a huge advantage right there. because you assimilate energy at every gig and it is like putting gas in your tank. the creative juices are more present. I could give examples though of an individual here who I have promoted for the last 6-7 years, and who has a vitality that few have , young at heart ,writing consistently with no baggage and an unlimited amount of positive energy and that man is John Pippus. that guy has a special something...then on the other end of the spectrum is Tom VanderKam from HAWKING, and his previous band Tommy Alto. ages 22 and around 60. so perhaps there is hope for us old farts. not me though, I aint venturing out into the band thing, solo maybe.
so, advantage to the young, by a wide wide margin. slimmer for old farts
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Larree
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2/4/2017 12:52:34 PM
---- Updated 2/4/2017 12:57:07 PM
I have to agree with Bryon. No one really wants an old rookie rock star. And it's true. If you are not performing live you have no chance no matter what your age. That is why I keep doing the Second Life shows. And though it's in a virtual world I tap into a much higher energy level even if I am just standing in the middle of my room in my skivvies.
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Francesca Tamellini
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2/4/2017 1:13:01 PM
What's the oldest you can think of? That's your answer.
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/4/2017 1:17:13 PM
anything live builds your confidence competence and helps elevate your abilities. learning how to be not only a good musician, but knowing how to entertain people. although performance quality is critical.
Key though is being a good entertainer. connecting energizing and inspiring the crowd you are playing to. some musicians just play for themselves and lack that connective ability.
I remember doing a gig as a old 28 year old. and my bandmates for a bunch of teens about 800 of them in the BC okanagan, penticton. and they got so into the music because it was the stuff that was current. and they connected to it. the whole place was shaking as they all stamped their feet on the hardwood floor, we delivered a product they identified with, it was high energy great songs , all covers , no originals. and just laid it out, it was the most amazing high I ever experienced, and I did all the lead singing and had a great band. Had some experienced people who played at the woodstock festival the bass player and drummer they were pros, there is nothing like playing live. I loved it, way fun but once I had a young family those 2 am late nights took a toll and hauling all that equipment, forget it. , as I was working construction and had to get up early . quit by 35 , did some duos on occasion, and. as a sideman for the blue voodoo which was more part time and have not played with them for about 5-6 years, and only do small stuff, as a solo artist as it stands now. i rather teach others what I know, and I know a lot about music due to my extensive background in studies, performing and writing. more jazz, easy listening now. not doing metal or rock anymore, not my thing really.
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/4/2017 1:24:58 PM
max age, maybe 28 -32 but that is old. by todays standards. I heard some 15-16 year olds lay down massive killer stuff around here. they live eat sleep music. all the time, you have to be totally immersed in it and have drive determination and desire, or else you are done, perseverance preparation practice will take you far. its not how good you are though, it is sticking with it and being a great performer and entertainer, the most gifted talented and skilled dont always survive. you have to bear down and endure the pain. but most cant and wont. and they wilt like flowers under pressure.
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Larree
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2/4/2017 1:24:59 PM
My old drummer from the early eighties called me out of the blue. Wants to work up some tunes and hit some clubs. I'm like, "dude, yer fucking higher than me"!
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/4/2017 1:25:27 PM
wow, cool. lol
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Larree
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2/4/2017 1:31:08 PM
Yeah. I am definitely going to get some jamming in. Just for kicks.
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John Pippus
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2/4/2017 2:01:33 PM
thanks Bryon for the compliment.... i agree that playing live is probably the best way to keep your edge. I mean not playing live relentlessly, on someone else’s terms, but playing the gigs that feed your soul. and with bandmates who do the same.
as long as it’s fun, i’ll keep doing it.
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/4/2017 2:06:55 PM
My days for rockin it out and jamming are done, I think, i rather do a little bar, coffee house ,restaurant , do a few weddings maybe a funeral or two, my own perhaps, lol
yes i have done playing at memorials, what ever they call these things now. political banquets as well even though I was not a fan of the people, the shekels were good,haha did fundraisers. played at a gambling joint. casinos. I just want like a crowd that likes laid back groove, dinner hour, cocktail things stuff like that, see getting older mellowing out.
i am not the rolling bones. but almost rolling and creaking and squeaking as my joints and hip and rotator cuff act up once in a blue, that is painful
hey , no complaining , about pain.
cheers rock and roll
like they say here in White Rock home of the newly wed and nearly dead LOL
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Stella Statsaver
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2/4/2017 11:17:46 PM
Let's be sure what we're talking about here because the term "Rock Star" has developed into much more than it used to be. Although it was predominantly associated with music, it has more recently become a positive label for anyone who is successful and has passionate followers.
So any performer, celebrity or someone with drive who is loved and followed can be a Rock Star. Obama was labelled as the first Rock Star President.
We have Rock Star chefs and modern artists. We have models, actors, and even people who lead fashion trends are classed as Rock Stars because in the opinion of the masses they "Rock"
If you use this broad definition then obviously age is not so much a factor.
The attributes of a Rock Star are ideally - Passion, Connectivity, Consistency, Confidence and Influence. Although a certain level of energy is required to maintain these attributes there is no formal restriction on age, looks or even talent.
Charisma is probably the most elusive prerequisite for Rockstardom.
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/5/2017 7:13:08 AM
I dont associate anything outside of music with being a rock star. at all
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JeffH
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2/5/2017 7:35:57 AM
Ditto on that Bryon....
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Stella Statsaver
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2/5/2017 9:14:06 AM
Rockstar (without a space) is in popular culture applied to anyone who lives like members of Rock Bands used to. The term Rock star is now overused, undervalued, and thrown across the spectrum of Popular music (ie: Rihanna, Miley Cyrus, Amy Lee, Rappers, etc) in attempts to lure a wider audience into thinking they're "hardcore", but real Rock music listeners know the difference.
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Father Time
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2/5/2017 9:16:26 AM
They call Trump a rockstar. Stupid people, that is. :D
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/5/2017 9:38:07 AM
I am way old. sorry about that. first concert was the Who-Vancovuer 1966 that was rock , real kick ass rock.
and another 50 60 concerts more since so like it seems one good rock concert a year. all I can afford these days. like to do more , but then some of those rockers now are dead that i saw. their legacy lives on. I am a fan of rock, but a whole lot more as well. Rock, some say is a child of the blues. I think so.
cheers
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Larree
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2/5/2017 10:25:02 AM
Words and phrases change their meanings over time. For example, gay used to mean happy. Now it's a sexual preference. Rock stars, like rock music itself, is ancient. Rock music is your grandpa's music. And if you can get out of bed and piss all by yourself in the morning you truly are... a rock star!
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Memorie Laine
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2/5/2017 11:49:22 AM
Hahaha!
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Francesca Tamellini
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2/5/2017 12:03:26 PM
Laree is right. For me, the word 'rock' is a turnoff. While I am happy with a lot of music that can be described that way. Not sure about the USA, but any radio station in the U.K. with 'rock' in the title plays really old music (AC/DC and guns n roses are about as far out as they get) and every couple of minutes some dude with a mock macho voice says 'R O C K' like his head is silicon based. They always seem to have Bryan Adams or Bon Jovi as every third song too.
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/5/2017 12:12:15 PM
Bryan Adams.well Paul McCartney loves the guy as he did Hendrix. music that lasts, well it stands on its own merits, Adams gives it in his concerts.
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Francesca Tamellini
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2/5/2017 12:29:23 PM
As you like Bryon, a question of personal taste.
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Father Time
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2/5/2017 12:36:49 PM
Francesca, it saddens me that the word rock is a turnoff to you. I can't really explain why but it does.
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/5/2017 12:50:07 PM
Not as I like Francesca, I only pass on what others say about Adams, and many others who are rockers, there is nothing like a ROCK concert. I mean ,been there done that as many here have. and i have seen a lot of concerts, of various genre. I have a wide variety of music tastes,and go to classical concerts of various kinds as well, My personal experience if you dont know this is that I have played in rock bands, country rock bands ,blues bands. and done duos and a lot of solo work,I think we have to acknowledge and respect each others musical tastes, or at least not be so dismissive about it, as it seems you are doing, now saying that, i respect your talent and works, i wont put down anothers appreciation of what they do, i will though defend those who deserve it, and these Rock Stars and Icons of the past have made their way and set the tone and are successful, more so then i could ever be. they were to me, my inspiration, they generated an exhilarating time and laid the foundation as true indies,way back as the beatles were, when they first started out they were indie in the true sense of the word. the history of rock music is a beautiful thing, as is classical , r and b and soul.
anyways, not trying to convince, just asking for you to be open minded and i know I try to be, and have had the privilege of enjoying so much music of all kinds in my life, and as a teacher of music i provide students i teach with an array of various styles and the most popular group at recitals, is the Beatles songs, and classical and so much more, but it is the beatles, (pop group obviously) have been some of my students most played songs, and Stairway to heaven, well there is an Iconic song. ok I ramble
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Father Time
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2/5/2017 12:52:07 PM
If anybody wants to read an account of how great rock can be, see my current blog, in another thread, or listen to Juliette Lewis' featured song.
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/5/2017 12:58:10 PM
saw her song, listened added it to some stations, that is hi energy kick ass slobber knocker balls out rocker shocker.
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Father Time
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2/5/2017 1:02:58 PM
You're on a roll today Bryon! :)
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Francesca Tamellini
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2/5/2017 1:13:33 PM
Bryon, If I don't like something, does that make me dismissive?
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/5/2017 2:03:13 PM
no, not at all Francesca,you were not dismissive, just the way it came out comment I took as like "As you like Bryon, a question of personal taste." and the first part maybe caught me off guard,.I can say now, I over reacted, I will step back, you were not contentious, my comment would be changed and rendered as such, yes it is a matter of personal taste, true. ok, I guess i have been around too long and think I know more then I really do, when in fact , I dont. and need to look at things from your perspective Francesca, and appreciate your thoughts and response.
ok,. I went too far on this one, and dont like offending, so got myself in doodoo and cant step out of it lol
its all good.
cheers
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Francesca Tamellini
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2/5/2017 2:08:30 PM
I was not offended.
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2/7/2017 8:24:58 AM
Well, gee...
I'm like, well over a hundred...
Wow. You threw me on that one.
American Lesley Jane here, recently given back my hall pass,
mostly hanging in the Teacher's Lounge,
but I had to stop in for this.
Holy Cow. 'Rock' is a turn off to you Sweetie? Holy Bananas.
I actually label all my releases now, regardless of which entity,
as "Rock".
I guess I won't ask what you think of my new record.
It's okay....
not the first time I've had my mind blown. Wow. Bummer.
Rock will be back shortly, it's been in rehab. ~L
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Francesca Tamellini
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2/7/2017 9:49:32 AM
To put it in context, it is more the word than the genre. While of course there are female rockstars and no doubt someone will list them, it is very much a boys' thing. It is radio announcers saying the word in deep, affected voices and meaningless anthems with big chords. That is what I don't like. I know the term can cover everything from the Ramones to Radiohead and I probably shouldn't over generalise, but I will if I want to!
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Larree
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2/7/2017 9:59:04 AM
I was very fortunate to get to study music arranging and composition with one of the greatest music educators who ever lived. Dick Grove. One of the things he taught me was that you have to keep up with modern popular genres if you want to always have work in the music production end of the industry. Whether you are a writer, performer, or both. You have to embrace the current trends to stay relevant. If the Beatles stayed together through the seventies they would have been playing disco right along with the Bee Gees, Rod Stewart, and the Stones!
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Bryon Tosoff
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2/7/2017 10:02:26 AM
Larree has made a very astute and important post with his observation and mentioning of being flexible in ones music and developing the ability to incorporate other genres into their repertoire in order to stay current developing ones art and expanding ones horizons , too many people are unable or incapable of adapting, or dont want to.
lucky guy you are Larree. nice
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Francesca Tamellini
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2/7/2017 10:04:17 AM
So why didn't they as individuals? Would they also have played punk, new romantic, ska, house, etc?
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Larree
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2/7/2017 10:08:28 AM
They didn't have to. Or didn't want to. But if the band had stayed together as a touring unit there is no doubt in my mind they would have given disco a whirl.
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2/7/2017 11:28:20 AM
Lesley here on the phone to the Dead Letter Office. Please hold.
Connecting your call now.
~L
Hello, Dead Letter Office, John Lennon speaking...
it's hard to say, you know...
first of all, at least arguably one of us DID do Disco, you know that, right?
Paul did. "Silly Love Songs". Complete with trademark disco bass line.
Part of the reason we broke up, maybe most of the reason
is we basically got bored with the gig. Lot of pressure in being The Beatles.
A lot is expected of you. Even now, what is it, almost 40 years dead,
okay holy crap, I'm dead now almost as long as I lived. Life paid better.
Well even now, being in the world famous BEATLESEX,
who does do rock, and as for the gender thing and the label,
I'll flip me yap about that as well in a moment,
but you know, it's a bit of expectation, even now,
and more and more we end up not releasing a record,
just because we decide it's either not good enough,
or not us enough. Okay sometimes we miss one, sorry.
Now, about 'Rock' as a label.
I realize, being you at your age,
the last person you want to hear any of this from is
a dead guy with an over-inflated opinion of himself,
ridiculous really, since if you put it to me, I don't even know now,
how we did all that then. It just happened. Balls if I know.
But it's not a male thing, that's just your understanding of it,
based on what of it, the entire genre, which you have witnessed.
You don't know what Rock was, like, back when I was alive,
because you were not even around then.
And what it became is crap. Commercialized nonsense.
Rock could come back, if people decided to rock.
We've decided to rock, but we're only one band,
and we have dead people in the band which stops a lot of people right there.
Rock began as an abbreviation for Rock N Roll.
Basically, I'd like to think, that as the Beatles we wouldn't have put out crap,
but I'd like to have me old bedroom back, only I won't get it.
'Cause at long last I scare the hell out of Yoko. Don't mean to.
Just do somehow. She called it though, said it in an interview,
"Oh, and... John might come back!"
Yeah, I did Love.
Only thing is, nobody gave a bloody crap!
Look, if I may dead as I am throw this into the mix.
There's no better boost for a genre you like, than doing good records
in that genre. And you know, there are a lot of old people here,
and really, looking at the world as it is, it's a bit overall heavyhanded and possibly mean at that, to be saying just blank outright that you don't like Rock.
Think of all the people who admire you, who rock.
You don't want to cause a run on old people suicide do you.
Anyway, my criteria for The BEATLES, was, that we be the best,
at whatever we do... but I'm not so crazy about Disco I would have...
No, wait. I'm full of crap as anyone. I did, Beef Jerky, instrumental.
It's Disco enough it is. Ringo and George may have avoided it, good on them.
Punk, I could see meself doing some of.
Yoko (it's okay Yoko, you can come out from under the bed now Love)
predicted years ago that if I were around, I'd be doing Hip Hop
wearing a baseball cap, and I've had different thoughts about that over time.
Sometimes I think no. Sometimes I think yes.
Yes as you can tell, they don't let me out often.
Okay I'm going to find a new body to work through,
because Lesley's off to go kill himself because Francesca doesn't like Rock.
RIP
Lesley Jane
we hardly knew ya,
Love, John Winston Ono Ohyes Lennon.
I'm kidding.
It's okay. Don't like rock if you don't like rock.
We don't like any of the crap the kids are putting out now,
so it's all about even isn't it. JL
------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, you all who knew him, remember John can be
a bit topical, and now he's an old man, so, this is what happens...
And this is why to avoid the Pipeline.
It is for me. Sheesh.
Okay, that's it.
Nice seeing you peeps,
but I'm gonna stick to records.
John you're worse than I am, and I didn't think anyone could be. ~L
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Bob Elliott
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2/7/2017 11:33:44 AM
The word 'rock' has kind of become a signifier of whiteness.
Somehow the Chuck Berrys and. Little Richards Fats Dominoes of rock and roll were no more and by the late sixties Hendrix is the exception and just about everyone else in rock is white.
And then the music gets whiter and whiter.
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Francesca Tamellini
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2/7/2017 11:39:04 AM
Very good point - the stuff I really hate is ultra white - these power ballads where the audience wave lighters around for example.
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Larree
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2/7/2017 11:39:16 AM
Bob? Bingo!
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2/7/2017 11:40:31 AM
Well, I know of what you speak.
Doesn't have to be. There was a band not longer ago than about twenty
to thirty years called Living Color, they were black and played rock.
As for why black people seemed to abandon rock n roll, I don't know.
It is their thing originally, go figure.
Personally though I refuse to consider the very genre,
rock n roll, and we'd probably put all the songs, we would,
Les would as well, in rock n roll, if there was here a 'rock n roll' genre...
There does not seem to be that we've found, so we just call it 'rock',
because we're tired of reconsidering the question, anything we do,
therefore we now call rock. Or would call it rock n roll. Just covered that.
As for the color of rock n roll...
Well some of us are blacker than others, I guess.
I reject the idea of colorizing the thing anyway.
I know, what you're saying, Bob Elliot,
I just reject that it has to be that way.
Guess I'm an optimist which is funny as hell for a dead guy. JL
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Larree
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2/7/2017 11:42:29 AM
Chuck is supposed to be releasing a new record this year. Now that is a record I am looking forward to hearing.
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Father Time
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2/7/2017 11:51:00 AM
I don't think anybody has the right to conclude for the Beatles that they would've been playing disco. I think the odds of that are slimmer than them adding Karen Carpenter as a 5th member though that I would've liked to see.
Speaking of Living Colour, this song to me should be the theme song for politics in this era.
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Bob Elliott
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2/7/2017 11:54:40 AM
Well, the music lost a lot of the wiggle.
There's a lot more wiggle in soul. Lot more in hip hop. I listen more to that.
Everyone likes to point to Living Colour as proof rock didn't go all white, but that's just one band, and though everyone seemed to want them to be great, they didn't have any catchy songs.
Prince combined rock and soul and we all went wild, but it didn't prove to extend beyond Prince.
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Bob Elliott
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2/7/2017 11:59:58 AM
As for how old could a new star be, early 30s probably?
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2/7/2017 12:00:06 PM
Well yeah, this was probably Living Color's best bloody record.
And thanks for sticking up for the group, that's much appreciated actually.
Like I said, or tried to say, right, Les quoted me,
"at the point you're doing crap just to have it sell,
that's when to call it a day, well, that's the idea..."
but not everybody does that...
And really, I shudder to think, how awful that would have really been....
Silly Love Songs, and Beef Jerky, well, one I liked (mine)
and one made me puke (Paul's)
Shit, Les, we're in your account.
This is John speaking in Lesley's account, I'm not supposed to do that.
Shit. Les, what do we do? JL
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You mean besides avoid even looking at the Pipeline for like another year
because we can't keep from yapping when we do?
Well okay, this is American Lesley Jane,
that was John leaping forth and having a field day here,
and not even realizing it was my account signed in just then.
Idiot.
Okay, but to respond to you, Scott,
this song may well be A theme song for politics in this era,
really, it can fit politics in nearly any era to one degree or another.
but that, makes my point.
decide it's a themesong, and suddenly, it's all been said,
no need to do more.
one could argue, maybe there is need to do more.
I think Rock basically has to do a Dr Who regeneration thing.
Where it's still the thing, but it's new and fresh...
Great record this is. Cult Of Personality.
So where the hell did they go?
God Bless, Much Love, ~Lesley Jane, NYC, 2017
See ya next year everybody if we're all still here!
It's a crazy world. Ya just never know.
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Father Time
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2/7/2017 12:03:23 PM
Bob, you really don't think Cult of Personality is catchy?? I think it's one of the greatest rock songs ever.
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Larree
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2/7/2017 12:07:17 PM
Black Rock Coalition
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Larree
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2/7/2017 12:15:28 PM
---- Updated 2/7/2017 12:15:28 PM
Hey, Bob? Did you see the video I posted of Prince and Miles Davis from 1987?
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