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edison freeman and the color of fire
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2/8/2008 3:15:27 PM
neil young fiqures it out...
Neil Young says music has lost its power to change the world.
When the 62-year-old singer brought his new movie, "CSNY Deja Vu," to the Berlin film festival Friday (shot during the 2006 Freedom of Speech tour by Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young) he said "I think that the time when music could change the world is past, I think it would be very naive to think that in this day and age." and also, "I think the world today is a different place, and that it's time for science and physics and spirituality to make a difference in this world and to try to save the planet."
Well, congrats Neil. Frank Zappa said the same thing 20 years ago when debating the censorship proposals of Tipper Gore and the PMRC.
Frank said...
"There are more love songs than anything else. If songs could make you do something we'd all love one another. "
and also,
"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds."
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2/8/2008 6:30:28 PM
Neil might've said that but I don't think he really believes it. I saw CSNY several times on that tour and if you could've seen these whole huge arena crowds singing along to Let's Impeach the President, you'd know that there had to be some in the audience who were stirred to a different place. If anything it's Neil's ability to change the world that has been diminished, cause nothing he's done since the late 70s (Rust Never Sleeps) has gotten any radio play worth squat in the era of Clear Channel and unbelievably narrow and safe radio formats.
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Larz Boah
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2/8/2008 9:42:40 PM
You must understand that we say things when we are in a certain mood.
Famous people are held to these quotes like they are written in stone. when
in actuality, both Neil and Zappa were obviously feeling some discouragement
and said something slightly 'cynical' and in Zappa's quote..somewhat darkly
humorous as he often did. I have a hard head but can tell you that music has
'changed' my mind and life 'many times'! But it can't be blamed for the ill's of
society, nor can it be relied upon as 'the cure-all'. That is what they were
referring to. (IMHOP)
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satch
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2/9/2008 12:21:20 AM
Sign of the times... tickets for Neil Young concerts in London and Manchester - official prices are between 80 and 150 pounds (that's about 160 - 300 dollars)!!! Take the money and run!
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The Man With No Band
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2/9/2008 12:40:04 AM
Satch .... I just saw Neil, just three or four years ago in a fairly small Club in Connecticut and the tickets were only $25.00 ... It was a GREAT show and it didn't even sell out ....
Maybe he thought he could fill the Venue if he upped the prices ... :)
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2/9/2008 1:40:48 AM
It's actually all concerts that are way way up in price. I did a blog about that awhile back. Stevie Wonder and Springsteen and Neil were all in town and 5 years ago I would've seen all 3 but in this case I couldn't justify any of them. Course if Neil was doing a whole show with the Horse I would've gone anyway but he wasn't.
I will see Zep at least 2 times when they tour in winter. That'll probably be the next time I cough up the kind of bucks needed to see a show.
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Larz Boah
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2/9/2008 2:09:31 AM
Oh stop bein such an atheist and have a little faith for once!...heh heh
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The CODE
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2/9/2008 4:08:37 AM
Big Bucks on Tour entry prices replaces lost revenue from CD sales!!!
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Carl Schonbeck
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2/9/2008 5:07:54 AM
Maybe Neil meant that the time when CSN & Y music could change the world has passed. The truth is that social upheaval is usually accompanied by radical changes in musical tastes (jazz in the '20s, young whites developing a taste for rock'n'roll and jazz becoming art music in the '50s and so on) but hey, don't take my word for it:
For the introduction of a new kind of music must be shunned as imperiling the whole state; since styles of music are never disturbed without affecting the most important political institutions.
Plato
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Hugh Hamilton
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2/9/2008 6:53:25 AM
I'm reminded of John Lennon's quote (from memory, maybe not precisely correct): "I still believe that all we need is love, but I don't think singing about it is going to change anything..."
Seems to me that music remains a fine way to get your point across, whatever it is. Neil's earlier experiences must have been pretty heady, as it really was a major international and generational movement that was underway as he and his musical partners took the stage and came to prominence. The true spirit of protest which came through so honestly from a lot of artists in those days is pretty hard to find these days...
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Carl Schonbeck
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2/9/2008 8:57:03 AM
Definitely a notch up on me Larree! As for who he plays with...not sure but maybe he inspired the Eagles' "The Greeks Don't Want No Freaks"??
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TNT
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2/9/2008 9:06:49 AM
We shall overcome - Pete Seeger.
If you know much about that song (and it's hard not to) it becomes difficult to believe that music can't make a difference.
I'd say that the general population think that music does make a difference, (if it's the right music) else why would one song have been the voice of so many protests over the years.
"here in my heart, I do believe - we shall overcome someday".
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Steve Ison
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2/9/2008 10:42:18 AM
I think its abit simplistic n crass to just think in terms of lyrics as the way music can change the world..
The Beatles didn't change the world 'cos they sang she loves you yeh yeh yeh..
People picked up on the freedom and originality in the chord changes,their whole sound n feel and their irreverant relaxed attitude that was so refreshing to the stilted n formal 'showbiz' world of the time..
And as someone here said 'People only change if they want to be changed'..So The Beatles 'message' came at the right time and refected feelings that were bubbling under the surface in the popular consciousness
Most people don't respond to music thru the lyrical message-they respond to the sound,vibe and mood it generates..
Even with someone like Dylan i think thats true..
If music's got less power to change people now than it did previously-its because there's so many other consumer entertainments available-it just dosn't hold the same meaning and value in peoples lives anymore..
The drastic general fall in artistic standards over the last 30-40 years also contributes to that i reckon..
I mean who's gonna argue Neils latest music is in any way creatively equal to his 60s/early 70s songs?
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edison freeman and the color of fire
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2/9/2008 10:44:34 AM
Thank you all for your insightful and heartfelt comments to my original article.
So, What Do I Think?
Well, I respectfully disagree with Neil. I think he's just temporarily disheartened...and proves he is no more God than you and I. We all suffer from the same human maladies of emotion, but show it all in differing degrees. Some of us wear our heart on our sleeve, others hold their cards very close to the vest.
And yet I agree with FZ. How do I reconcile that? Easy.
You do not change peoples minds. They do. You can only present them with facts they may be unaware of, that will facilitate the process. And within the rigid limitations of the 4 minute pop song, it's damn near impossible to present enough facts to change someone's mind.
However, a song may mobilize people of a common mindset into action. The presidential election of the United States in 1840 is a clear example of that. Harrison and Tyler were literally sung into the White House, to the refrain of "Tippacanoe and Tyler too!". Neil himself helped further mobilize a nation against an unjust war with "Ohio", like his partner Steve Stills had done with "For What It's Worth" 4 years earlier.
And, timing is everything. Neil ran into hostile crowds in '06 because he was working against a propaganda apparatus that had not yet been exposed to the masses for what it truly was and is. This year, the public at large has awakened a bit more...
Songs awaken parts of ourselves that were already there, in our deep subconscious. They don't change us, but they change our behavior many times for the better, or worse, depending upon the point at which the content of the heart intersects with the content of the song.
Much rap, metal, southern rock, and country have served to further polarize society by justifying bigotry, and pandering to the prejudices people already have in exchange for the almighty dollah. These bigotries include a jingoistic form of "patriotism" that has an "us against them" mentality. Patriotism, in my book, is operating in the best interests of ordinany American citizens, which our government has not done a very good job of for a very long time.
"there's only 2 types of music, country, and western"
I have had instances here in Texas of going into a nightclub to run into a crowd of musical bigots, who will not accept hearing another form of music any more than they will invite a black person to dinner. I packed up and left, told them to turn on their goddamn jukebox. And I do play some country, but I refuse to limit myself to any single form of music for the satisfaction of people like that.
As far as Plato goes, I respectfully believe he had the cart before the horse. A change in music is not the cause, but the reflection of a change that has already occured in the society. Plato is no more god than you or I, he didn't even know HOW to put his pants on. They weren't invented yet in 400 B.C.
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2/9/2008 10:58:56 AM
I'll argue that, Steve, Neil has continued to do incredible work in the now 3 decades since Rust Never Sleeps. His mini rock opera Greendale for instance, just an amazing piece of work. If you've seen the movie Heart of Gold you know how outstanding Prairie Wind was, and his recent Chrome Dreams 2 has 3 long rockers that are just as good as most anything he's done with Crazy Horse. And that's not even mentioning a truly socially aware and courageous record called Living With War which is probably more important than any of the others.
And that's just in the last 5 years.
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